Dear Internet: Grow Up

[Candescence]

I saw the trailer...can't say she doesn't have a point.

 

...except I kinda like the trailer.

Well, her point would hold more water if the game wasn't a deliberate cliche storm

 

Not every female character has to be geared towards feminists, for crying out loud.

[Diogenes]

Well, her point would hold more water if the game wasn't a deliberate cliche storm

Shitty cliches that perpetuate bad attitudes towards a group are cliches I can do without.

Not every female character has to be geared towards feminists, for crying out loud.

Not every female character needs an introduction with the camera focused on her ass and tits. In fact I would wager very, very few female characters need that. How about we just not do that?

[Autosaver]

Not every female character needs an introduction with the camera focused on her ass and tits. In fact I would wager very, very few female characters need that. How about we just not do that?

In a Platinum game?

 

Good luck.

[JaidynReiman]

I dunno, I've kinda been watching this topic a bit, and I don't really know what to think. I hate this kind of fanservice with a passion. I've gotten plotlines and stories written out for an RPG series I have in mind (yes, gameplay as well) and am planning to try and go through with it using HTML5 and Javascript with the Canvas tag to make it happen.

 

As it so happens, I tend to find it a lot easier to create female characters (despite being a male; my avatar just happens to be my main protagonist). I'm actually having a hard time balancing the casts right now so that females don't dominate the whole thing, since I have way more females than males overall.

 

...and none of them wear slutty clothing or are heavily sexualized. I think I do have some "femme fatale" type characters, and not even they wear slutty clothing or anything like that.

 

 

Granted, at the same time, none of them are aimed at feminists, either. I'm just trying to write out a good story with good characters without sexualizing them. At the same time, I'm not going to pretend sex doesn't exist, either (though it won't ever happen in-game obviously, but I won't hesitate to bring it up where necessary). I'm just going to try and be fairly realistic when it comes to it.

 

I don't know, not sure if this really applies to the subject at hand, but I guess it kinda does as I'm trying to explain my take on things. I think some of the stuff this lady is saying is accurate, but she goes way overboard on it. I'm trying to do something that depicts women properly but doesn't try and put such insane restrictions on them either.

 

 

Not every female character needs an introduction with the camera focused on her ass and tits.

 

Since my stuff would be a 2D game that would never happen, but even if I was able to do something 3D I wouldn't. This is something that really bothers me.

 

For example, in Star Ocean: The Last Hope, I really did like it... But camera angles in end battle scenes CONSTANTLY showed off these areas for Reimi and Myuria. It was obvious what they were getting at, and I hated it. They occassionally did this when Myuria popped up outside of battle as well, but it was far worse in the battle scenes because that happens all the time.

 

More annoying, too, is that Myuria's storyline actually ISN'T all that bad at all. They didn't need to sexualize her whatsoever, they just did it because they could. And that drives me crazy.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, her point would hold more water if the game wasn't a deliberate cliche storm

I don't think being a cliche storm is a good defense when the only female Wonderhero has the camera panned on her sexual features and how she moves her hips around.

 

Not every female character has to be geared towards feminists, for crying out loud.

No ones saying they should; I don't even consider myself a feminist despite having similar beliefs.

 

Edit: Also, not every damn feminist thinks alike. You guys need to be aware of this!

Edited August 11, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[MegasonicZX]

The trailer outright focuses on the character's breasts and arse and to top it off she jiggles the latter towards the camera. While it may not be everything that you shouldn't do with a female character, it's easy to see where she's coming from.

I didn't want to get involved but to be honest there are way more things than just her in the character stereotype roulette here and honestly, its platinum, what did you expect? Sides, its not really something to be that mad about because she since from the way how the trailer portrays her and how the other one portrays her its kind of obvious that she is supposed to be a strong female character and not some type of eye candy for people to look at.

[JaidynReiman]

I didn't want to get involved but to be honest there are way more things than just her in the character stereotype roulette here and honestly, its platinum, what did you expect? Sides, its not really something to be that mad about because she since from the way how the trailer portrays her and how the other one portrays her its kind of obvious that she is supposed to be a strong female character and not some type of eye candy for people to look at.

That's... that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. So what you're saying is, because we expect it to happen that its ok? Because that's pretty much exactly what you're implying.

 

Whether we EXPECT something or not, that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't need to be done and its completely and totally unnecessary, its only done to try and generate more sales and its really offensive. That is a horrible, horrible come back and completely and totally misses the point.

 

Strong female character or not, they DO NOT need to sexualize her. I don't even know what the trailer it is that you're talking about, but I can kinda get what you're saying just from reading the recent conversation alone. Strong female character, perhaps, but they are doing extra crap they don't need to just for the hell of it.

[Autosaver]

 

Lol.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't even know what the trailer it is that you're talking about, but I can kinda get what you're saying just from reading the recent conversation alone.

Dude, I would recommend you watch the trailer first, then make your statements. Not jump into it without knowing about it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w3Im35WGjI

Edited August 11, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Stacy]

I am the only one who watched the trailer and was not offended? I found it kinda of funny, tongue in cheek, personally. 

Edited August 11, 2013 by BW199148

[Mr. Taxi]

I wasn't going to talk about this because I personally hate what the debates tend to become, but I just can't leave without saying this:

 

Trying to uniformize people sucks.

 

See, sexualization is not a problem in and of itself. It's the exacerbation of a trait, but then again we have that in super-rich or super-smart characters. But we don't have a problem with these, now do we? Why is it that super-beautiful women generate such an uproar and Robotnik doesn't? Heck, he's over-smartized!

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't address this issue, but it's dangerous to think we can't bend human traits as we please, even if we support this process with logics inherent to the game. The problem arises when this projection lands on our social reality, that's all.

 

Catwoman using her sex appeal to achieve her goals is not a problem. It seriously is not. Being portrayed as such also isn't a problem. The problem comes when everyone is forced to empathize with her "sexiness" alone and not with how she uses it. So no, I don't have any problem with impossibly huge breasts - or with impossibly huge muscles, for that matter. I don't have a problem with insanely smooth-talking men, with their impossibly deep voices that no man in the world can have. Trying to eliminate a possibility in character building just because it's somehow morally wrong is to hinder your own creativity.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Palas

[turbojet]

Being sexy is not misogynistic nor is it sexist. The underlining issue is that women get the sexy treatment more often than men. However, as Palas so eloquently put it and I've had already posted before, to uniform creativity or someone's artistic vision for the sake of making you feel better and conforming to your social preferences is to not only stifle the aspect of freedom of speech, but to question artistic portrayals as well as our own cultural history. These are questions that infer censorship of freedom of expression.

[Gabz Girl]

Not every female character needs an introduction with the camera focused on her ass and tits. In fact I would wager very, very few female characters need that. How about we just not do that?

Bloody hell can't you tell it's intentional? I'm a girl and I thought the trailer was funny. -_O

[Mollfie]

I didn't find it funny. I found the character annoying and the concept boring, it's been done so many times! Where's the creativity in creating yet another sexy female character as a tongue in cheek joke? I also don't really get what's supposed to be funny here, what's the joke exactly?

 

I'm not offended. I get that it's for fun, that other characters are also stereotypes and within the game it makes sense. It just doesn't seem very original to me.

[Stacy]

The trailer outright focuses on the character's breasts and arse and to top it off she jiggles the latter towards the camera. While it may not be everything that you shouldn't do with a female character, it's easy to see where she's coming from.

 

What? You are kinding me, its bloody harmless two seconds its focuses on it at the beginning, at its not meant to be taken seriously. Christ someone forbid you from seeing the Blow Job/Sex scenes in GTA IV: TBOGT.

 

Unoriginal concept maybe, but offensive, come on!   

Edited August 11, 2013 by BW199148

[Nepenthe]

You're overreacting. Being annoyed at a female character for being defined by her sexuality doesn't mean you get super offended at everything across the board. People are capable of rolling their eyes at one thing and throwing their hands up at another.

 

Overall though, you have a tendency to say almost everything is harmless. "It's only a few seconds." "It doesn't mean anything." Well praytell, what is your threshold for offensiveness when it comes to matters concerning feminism? At what point do you personally start caring?

[JezMM]

Not every female character has to be geared towards feminists, for crying out loud.

 

Okay just had to respond to this.

 

Yes.  Yes every character should be geared towards feminists.  Or that is to say, every cast of characters in a body of work should be geared towards feminists.

 

Because feminism is not about destroying the sexual portrayal of women.  It is about equality.  If you believe men and women should be equal, you are a feminist.  (If you don't believe men and women should be equal do not ever talk to me because you're a twat).

 

I forgot to bring this up in the W101 topic because I was fresh off trying the pure-gameplay based experience of the demo, but yes Wonder Pink bothers me.  Even in the context of the game.

 

She is a parody of the "sexy female superhero" stereotype.  That is fine.  I actually like her design, super-deformedness aside she is pretty hot, good job design team.

 

What bothers me is she is the only playable female character in the game.  Why couldn't there have been another female character who parodied a non-gender specific superhero cliché?  Yes there's a non-sexualised female support character, but that is not really enough when you have what... six playable male characters who reflect a whole spectrum of different personalities.  But the girl is just "the sexy one".  Crock of shit, even in a parody.  You can parody old stereotypes while moving forward too.

 

I'm not saying every work must contain both genders in equal amounts.  Not every work even needs to contain both genders.  But when a body of work DOES contain both genders, shit like this needs to be put in the past.

Edited August 11, 2013 by JezMM

[Solkia]

If you believe men and women should be equal, you are a feminist. 

 

 

 

 

I need to get this out of my system, because I'm tired of hearing this.

 

No, sharing the views of a feminist doesn't actually make you one. A feminist is a equality activist. Activist. Stemming from the word Active.

 

I think women have shitty representation in the media and are treated unfairly in society. But I'm just some redneck in the middle of nowhere taking care of his parents, I'm not doing a goddamn thing about women's rights because I have my own agenda that I need to address at the moment.

 

I've wanted to say this on tumblr for god knows how long. Circlejerking on a shitty slacktivist blog with other slacktivist blogs isn't doing anything substantial to the cause, it's the equivalent of writing in a diary with the hope that everyone in the world happens to come across it.

[JezMM]

I don't think you need to be an activist to be a feminist do you though?  Hell I'd even say you don't really need to be a stereotypical "activist" to be an activist.  You can be "active" simply by treating women in day to day life with the values of equality.  That's how I've always seen it anyway.

[Solkia]

You can be "active" simply by treating women in day to day life with the values of equality.

 

That's not Feminism. That's just being a decent human being.

[Nepenthe]

If you are for racial integration, you do not need to be an activist. If you are marriages between any pair of consenting adults, you do not need to be an activist. If you are for social equality of the genders, you do not need to be an activist. The fact that one of these has a specific "ism" attached to it doesn't mean its inherent definition has been changed to include activism as a necessity. This is literally the first time in all of my online life that I've heard someone denounce Feminism on this front.

[JezMM]

I'm not sure why people sometimes seem to be so, I dunno, afraid of being called a feminist.

[Nepenthe]

Because the movement's been demonized to the point that people equate Feminism with bitchy, fanatical misandry?

[Solkia]

Because the term is seen as a derogitory term ever since the concept of feminism was bastardized by teenage girls with no idea what they're talking about started making shit blogs with no actual concept of what feminism is about? Like numerous other terms in the english language? 

 

Hell, this very thread is centered around the poster child of this. 

[JezMM]

Well you can either let the bastardised version reign supreme or try to take it back by using it as it is meant to be used, I choose the latter.