The Nintendo Switch Thread

[KHCast]

8 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

and an economical alternative.

Not exactly a good alternative for many when the systems selling titles are all about couch play with your friends and family. And also virtually cuts down some of its library in the process of cutting down those costs 

As for the child argument, I still find it fairly weak for a justification that this thing needed to be made when kids had no problem playing consoles before with their parents. It just comes off unneeded and short sighted for Nintendo so they could make quick money, especially with the Pro rumors in mind 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

In my opinion, what annoys me is the lack of upgrades to make it suitable for a fully handheld experience. From what I've heard, the battery is only slightly upgraded, meaning you're still only getting about 3 hours max out of it.

On top of that, they've removed a bit of what made the Switch a unique portable experience, and that's what kills it most for me. I get removing stuff like the TV functionality and such, it's basically a repeat of the 2DS. What I do not get is forcing joycons to stay attached to the console, and to remove the kickstand. One of the biggest selling points to me was you could basically use the Switch as a portable TV. Prop the stand onto a table, remove the joycons, and you've basically got a relaxing TV experience for when you're on a plane, train, boat, or even car. 

What I would've expected from something trying to be a dedicated handheld is improving the kick-stand, as opposed to removing it out right. Given how much is stripped from the system, I would expect them to either include two kickstands, removing the unbalancing issue with the kickstand only being on one side.

But the joycons is the far bigger issue. They have a notorious failure rate, especially for the left joycon, which has a drifting problem that very much begins to develop over time, and will likely still be a problem here. If they get screwed up, there's no simple replacements, other than a full disassemble of the system. On top of that, making joycons like this means the biggest selling point of the Switch - very easy co-op, and multiplayer anywhere is now dead in the water, which now removes a lot of functionality from other games. If you want to play the likes of MK8D, Smash Ultimate, Cuphead, or so on so forth with multiple people, they either need a system, or you need to pony up the cash for an extra controller.

It's all just stupid changes that surely couldn't have that much of a price impact. I get I'm not in the target audience, but to me, this is a downright idiotic exclusion which heavily effects two of the biggest Switch exclusives to date. 

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

In my opinion, what annoys me is the lack of upgrades to make it suitable for a fully handheld experience. From what I've heard, the battery is only slightly upgraded, meaning you're still only getting about 3 hours max out of it.

On top of that, they've removed a bit of what made the Switch a unique portable experience, and that's what kills it most for me. I get removing stuff like the TV functionality and such, it's basically a repeat of the 2DS. What I do not get is forcing joycons to stay attached to the console, and to remove the kickstand. One of the biggest selling points to me was you could basically use the Switch as a portable TV. Prop the stand onto a table, remove the joycons, and you've basically got a relaxing TV experience for when you're on a plane, bus, boat, or even car. 

What I would've expected from something trying to be a dedicated handheld is improving the kick-stand, as opposed to removing it out right. Given how much is stripped from the system, I would expect them to either include two kickstands, removing the unbalancing issue with the kickstand only being on one side.

But the joycons is the far bigger issue. They have a notorious failure rate, especially for the left joycon, which has a drifting problem that very much begins to develop over time, and will likely still be a problem here. If they get screwed up, there's no simple replacements, other than a full disassemble of the system. On top of that, making joycons like this means the biggest selling point of the Switch - very easy co-op, and multiplayer anywhere is now dead in the water, which now removes a lot of functionality from other games. If you want to play the likes of MK8D, Smash Ultimate, Cuphead, or so on so forth with multiple people, they either need a system, or you need to pony up the cash for an extra controller.

It's all just stupid changes that surely couldn't have that much of a price impact. I get I'm not in the target audience, but to me, this is a downright idiotic exclusion which heavily effects two of the biggest Switch exclusives to date. 

Don’t forget Online becomes much less of a feature worth investing in and paying for due to the systems portable only nature. 

[Blue Blood]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

Not exactly a good alternative for many when the systems selling titles are all about couch play with your friends and family. And also virtually cuts down some of its library in the process of cutting down those costs 

As for the child argument, I still find it fairly weak for a justification that this thing needed to be made when kids had no problem playing consoles before with their parents. It just comes off unneeded and short sighted for Nintendo so they could make quick money 

An absolutely fine alternative if you prefer handheld or have no limited access to TV okay. And system selling titles, like Smash, Mario Kart, BotW, Oddysee, Splatoon and Pokémon work fine as single player/handheld experiences. They certainly don't need audience or multiplayer to get the most out of the games. And if you want multiplayer, you've got the exact same options as with every other Nintendo handheld with local and online play with other Switch owners. You know how often I use my Switch for multiplayer or with an audience? Every few months when my sister is home and we play BotW together. The approachable multiplayer features of the Switch are great, but if you don't want them, here's a cheaper alternative.

The amount of games excluded by the lack of detachable Joy Con and removal of the IR camera is tiny. There's still an enormous library of games to choose from.

As for the "for children" argument, you're looking at it the wrong way. It's a smaller form factor that's a little bit easier to carry around and more comfortable for smaller hands. Not all parents will have any interest in gaming, so there's no need to invest in something for the whole family to enjoy at once. Plus being cheaper makes it more approachable for parents looking to buy a new system for their kids.

Remember the 2DS and how the lower price point compared to the 3DS did wonders for the size of the userbase? You're looking at the same thing here. Features that aren't totally essential are being cut to lower the price. If it still suits your needs with the lower price,  hooray! If not... Well, nothing has changed.

It's a budget Switch. I don't know what you're getting so hung up over.

[KHCast]

10 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

They certainly don't need audience or multiplayer to get the most out of the games. And if you want multiplayer, you've got the exact same options as with every other Nintendo handheld with local and online play with other Switch owners

I feel like you’re really underplaying convenient multiplayer with many of these games tbh. Smash especially given ultimates single player content is only part of the reason a majority even play the thing. 

Look, the system just seems dumb and misses in my opinion the whole point of why people got the switch. As an alternative it doesn’t seem all that interesting or have much going for it. I’m not the target group, but that doesn’t mean I can’t personally have my opinions on the thing. If anything you seem to have a problem with someone personally expressing their own sentiments. Many wanted a cheap alternative but still wanted that couch play, and local co-op. Not everyone lives in a booming city where everyone will have a Switch.  So like I said, not a good alternative for many 

[Blue Blood]

Nah, man. Your issues with the system are valid, but they're one-sided. You're basically saying that because some groups use the full range of features, it's a mistake to make something that doesn't have those features. It's an alternative, one for people who don't want/need those features. You're only considering the reasons why some people play the Switch, not considering the range of other reasons.

[KHCast]

1 minute ago, Blue Blood said:

Nah, man. Your issues with the system are valid, but they're one-sided. You're basically saying that because some groups use the full range of features, it's a mistake to make something that doesn't have those features. It's an alternative, one for people who don't want/need those features. You're only considering the reasons why some people play the Switch, not considering the range of other reasons.

I guess I just never saw that much demand for something like this outside simply wanting a cheap alternative. So I guess we’ll just have to see upon release if it indeed was something that paid off for Nintendo and was worth creating. Or if it’s another Wii Mini situation 

[Conando]

I feel it’s really easy to tell who it’s for. The millions of 3DS owners out there that don’t need the extra functionality of the standard Switch. If we’re saying that no one plays Mario Kart and Smash handheld, then how do we explain that people continued to play Mario Kart 7 and Smash for 3DS instead of buying a Wii U? It will especially appeal to Japanese audiences.

[Salamander]

I just feel that some of the system's critics fail to understand the different ways in which people play.  I use my Switch exclusively undocked; I don't even have it hooked up to a TV.  I never detach the JoyCons, never play multiplayer, I'm indifferent to HD Rumble.  If the Switch Lite had been out closer to launch, I'd have bought it, absolutely.

Edit: Just remembered that Nintendo did some research in 2017 showing that over 30% of Switch owners use it undocked more than 80% of the time. (Source)

[Iko]

1 hour ago, FFWF said:

I just feel that some of the system's critics fail to understand the different ways in which people play.  I use my Switch exclusively undocked; I don't even have it hooked up to a TV.  I never detach the JoyCons, never play multiplayer, I'm indifferent to HD Rumble.  If the Switch Lite had been out closer to launch, I'd have bought it, absolutely.

Edit: Just remembered that Nintendo's did some research in 2017 showing that over 30% of Switch owners use it undocked more than 80% of the time. (Source)

I don't have a Switch yet, and I fully agree with you.

I was waiting for something like this, and I'm finally satisfied.

First of all, I have never considered the original Switch worth 300/350€/$. People got used to buy smartphones at 1500€/$ or even more, you're even labeled as poor if you say they cost too much. I've never wanted to support that thing, and I've always prefered to wait for cheaper stuff. It's not that I can't afford them, it's that I don't want to spend that much for something that IMO is not worth that much.

Consoles are getting exponentially more costly each generation, games gain 10€/$ of additional cost each generation as well; online is now paid and I expect it to cost more in the next generation. Mario is cool, and all, but I don't want to support this trash (sorry for the tone).

So, for me, being cheaper is definitely a factor.

But I'm also an handheld gamer, I play in public transport, I like to move from room to room and do other stuff while I'm playing (especially during loadings or wait time). I also don't like wireless components and excessive amount of moddules, they make the structure of the product weaker and less intuitive/ergonomic to use.

I prefer it being a big solid piece of plastic, than it being a puzzle to assemble and syncronize with occasionally defective wireless.

But at the same time, I feel fooled for the fact that it can't be connected to TV and doesn't support local multiplayer. It's the same console, it has the same hardware more or less, probably the same OS too. It seems like they have put those limitations on purpose to make the system look inferior when in fact it's the same thing, and the limitations are artificailly imposed.

I've always been convinced that the legend of Switch being sold in loss was bull****, and this is a confirmation. They removed a sensor and a couple of rotating engines, put a software block that removes some features, and the console is now magically 150€/$ cheaper. The removed stuff, the sensor and the engines, is very cheap... I don't know how much it costs to produce, but I played with Arduino time ago and sensors and those type of stuff are very cheap, I refuse to think they are really worth the price difference. It's most likely just marketing, and nothing more.

I'll definitely get Switch lite, though this thing of cutting out the multiplayer is annoying... I rarely play local multiplayer lately (I've played a lot of it in the past but nowadays I mostly play multiplayer on PC, and often retro games such as Age of Empires I/II and Diablo II/Unreal Tournament 99/2004 - yes that level of nerd stuff), so I don't care much, but it's still annoying.

Let's see what they will do with the rumored Switch "pro", if it exists, how much more powerful it will be, if it will be backward compatible with regular Switch and how much it will cost... As someone who doesn't have a Switch yet, I think it would be stupid to buy a regular Switch now, if in less than a year it's supposed to become outdated by the new model (if rumors are true, and they have been so far).

[Wraith]

15 hours ago, KHCast said:

One group is telling me it’s for the poor, one is group is telling me it’s for the portable market, and now this. Make up your damn minds about what reason you wanna use to justify and defend its existence people good lord. It’s like I can’t argue and have a personal issue with this cause the defense is always shifting form in order to defend Nintendo 

 

No, a product is just allowed to cover niches. 

[JezMM]

It's definitely not for me, the idea of playing some of the bigger AAA titles like Zelda and Mario handheld only seems insane to me, playing those for the first time on a TV was incredibly important.  But... now that I've finished my first playthrough of them, I almost entirely play my Switch handheld, especially for more casual/non-atmospheric games like Sonic Mania, Mario Maker, Baba is You, etc.  I completely understand that a LOT of folks just see video games as an entertainment to pass the time - playing their first playthrough on a TV for the atmospheric experience is not important at all to them.  It's definitely a cool alternative to have for those who want it at a cheaper price point.

 

The lack of kickstand is definitely pretty bizarre though, that's the only major fault I have with it - that one thing tips it over from encouraging single player to actively DISCOURAGING local multiplayer".  Having said that, pretty much every multiplayer game I'm aware of has multi-console linking so PROBABLY from a business standpoint, Nintendo are more interested in encouraging family-members/friends to buy a Switch Lite each rather than extra joycons for one.

[KHCast]

Moving on from the previous debates, while it’s unlikely with the Lite, does anyone think the Switch Pro will, in a similar manner to the New 3DS, have a few exclusive games for it? It’s apparently supposed to be much more powerful than a standard switch isn’t it? 

[Strickerx5]

One thing I feel that is pretty problematic about the Lite is the fact that it can’t play some major titles out of the box. Like, let’s say a kid got this thing but later on wanted to play Mario Party or something. That’s an unexpected up-charge of around $80 or so for the standard joy-cons and charger needed to play it. At that point, the better value is the standard Switch.

I’m having a hard time seeing a world where Nintendo can properly notify these consumers that these specific games won’t work on the system beforehand. It’s easy for us to know because, well, we actually like paying attention to this stuff. The standard parent and child aren’t going to know this. I can imagine there’s going to be a number of cases of them getting blind sighted by this down the line.

Though honestly, this is probably one of those cases where the number of times of that happening is severely outweighed by the number of people who will never run into this issue at all. The fact remains that there is a clear market for this. Nintendo probably knows that the majority of people who will buy this are the same ones that only play Pokemon, Mario Kart, Smash, and some other cheap licensed 3rd party title.

[NegaMix]

In all honesty, the Switch Lite is something that I see myself getting when it comes out. I do enjoy my current Switch, but as someone who doesn't play a whole lot of co-op or use the dock anymore, the handheld focus of the Lite is just perfect for me.

Plus, with the Lite releasing at such a cheap price, I don't think I'll even need to trade in my current Switch, which'll make my younger siblings happy.

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

Moving on from the previous debates, while it’s unlikely with the Lite, does anyone think the Switch Pro will, in a similar manner to the New 3DS, have a few exclusive games for it? It’s apparently supposed to be much more powerful than a standard switch isn’t it? 

I'd like to think that a potential Switch Pro would just work the same way as the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro; having games which feature enhanced performance/graphics, but still work fine on the regular/Lite models.

At least, that's the best-case scenario.

[Salamander]

In the end, weren't there only a handful of New 3DS exclusives, and not necessarily the ones you'd expect?  I remember Xenoblade Chronicles 3D, The Binding Of Isaac, and Hyrule Warriors (de facto, apparently it was abysmal on a standard 3DS).  If Switch Pro games would have to curtail their requirements for undocked mode anyway, I would imagine they'd be capable of something similar for docked non-Pro play, though admittedly I know little of such things.

[KHCast]

5 hours ago, Strickerx5 said:

Though honestly, this is probably one of those cases where the number of times of that happening is severely outweighed by the number of people who will never run into this issue at al

I mean, after the Wii U I wouldn’t make that assumption lol. People can surprise you 

[Meta77]

If anything it shouldn't be called a switch regardless if it plays switch games the Literal name was because you could switch from docked to handheld with ease. Without that's it's not a switch by name

[Blue Blood]

10 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

If anything it shouldn't be called a switch regardless if it plays switch games the Literal name was because you could switch from docked to handheld with ease. Without that's it's not a switch by name

The name no longer makes sense, but "Switch" is a brand. There's no alternative that wouldn't be confusing.

[Tornado]

I would have thought that they would have gone the other way with it, honestly. Make an nVidia Shield kind of thing permanently docked.

[Kuzu]

I'm not too concerned about this as, cynical as it sounds, is obviously marketed towards younger players as a cost effective measure for parents. 

 

Alternatively, if you haven't gotten a switch and mostly plan on handheld gaming....well there you go. Personally don't care, but I can see the market for this.

[KHCast]

42 minutes ago, Tornado said:

I would have thought that they would have gone the other way with it, honestly. Make an nVidia Shield kind of thing permanently docked.

Would have been really interesting if they made two different cheap alternative models actually. One for those that want strictly portable, and one that want strict console. Though I assumed the costs would be ridiculous to do that

[Conando]

3 hours ago, Tornado said:

I would have thought that they would have gone the other way with it, honestly. Make an nVidia Shield kind of thing permanently docked.

I expect them to do this at some point too. Maybe they actually are waiting for a slightly stronger tegra revision before doing so.

[Dr. Detective]

On 7/11/2019 at 3:05 PM, Blue Blood said:

The name no longer makes sense, but "Switch" is a brand. There's no alternative that wouldn't be confusing.

Ooo~! I know.

Lets call it, "Nintendo Switch - After Dock".

[KHCast]

That didn’t take long