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Awoo.

a game with just Sonic and villian....


Rey Skywalker-Ren
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I wonder sometimes if the next Sonic game should be just Sonic and Eggman. 

I mean a game when Sonic is trying to beat Eggman himself and Sonic uses his intellgence and skills to do it. I would want to see a game like that and there are reasons why I support such a idea for a game.

For one, we can expend on Sonic and Eggman as characters. We can expend on our villian and what he would do, but also on Sonic to. We can see Sonic's personality more and see who is really is as a character. Sonic is very intellgent and skilled but sometimes people dont see it. 

Also it could make for intresting gameplay. Sonic has more skills and you can level up his skills to. If he's saving animals then you can use different wisps for Sonic to powerup.

Something new! What do you think?

 

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This is the sort of idea that should be a conclusion rather than a starting point.  First they should come up with their base gameplay and base story to accompany it before then deciding how many characters they need for said story.  Only if it serves the overall game, story and writing should they go for a minimalist cast after discovering that other characters harm any of these elements in a significant way.  Doing a "Sonic and Eggman only" story for the sake of it, as a starting point, will only limit what directions they can go in with these elements.

If the story and Sonic's personality is considered an important part of this game's concept, sometimes the best characters are only at their best because they have a contrasting character to play off, and Eggman might not necessarily be the best person for that unless he's constantly present for every cut-scene - which worked in Lost World since Eggman was on our side, but if they're against each other, how does the story justify that?

 

Stuff to consider.

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True. I was thinking only those characters in a game because they can do alot more especially with Sonic. Gameplay wise he has a range of some options he can use but character wise his other traits can show. I do think we shouldn't add extras to a game. Lost World, Sonic's friends even Tails felt like extras. The game was about Sonic and Eggman working together.... it should have been Sonic, Eggman and the D6. 

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I feel like giving Sonic a variety of other skills simply because he's the only protagonist present sort of makes the character uninteresting.  The point of having an extended cast is that each character contributes their own strengths that make up for the weaknesses of the other characters.  Giving Sonic the intelligence normally exhibited by Tails takes away from both Sonic and Tails' characters because either could be interchanged without any real dilemma.  That means there's no weight to those two characters or their absence, because they don't offer a tangible, on-screen benefit or detriment to us as a viewer.  Our mind generally doesn't perceive things like the comradely among the characters as important points unless it is emphasized through balanced and organized conflict, even if that's not necessarily how it works in real life.

Rather, I think if a game were to focus solely on Sonic and Eggman (or another singular antagonist), then stages and story should instead emphasize his traits and work around his specific set of strengths and weaknesses.  Give Sonic puzzles that he can solve without the engineering prowess of Tails, for example (even, or maybe especially, if it means having to improvise).  Give him conflicts that pertain to his own personality.  Use his own character flaws both for and against him.  That's why characters such as DC superheroes work so well both as standalone characters and in unison via the Justice League.  Their individual series emphasizes the traits that make them unique, while the Justice League (typically) organizes key characters so that their strengths and weaknesses can interact and balance each other out.

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I've always been in support of a Sonic and Eggman game.

But I'd want it to be Sonic and Eggman both as playable characters. If they were to team up from the start against a Monster of the Week and both be the reason for defeating the MotW, as in both work together in the final boss fight, then I'd be all for it. Neither Sonic, nor Eggman, could have beaten them alone.

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It'd be pretty hard to sell a game like this convincingly because you'd to figure out why there aren't any supporting characters to begin with and Jez said, they'd be limiting themselves if they tried to base the entire story around the concept of having two characters, never considering if adding more characters would benefit it. 

 

Its definitely possible, but you'd need scenarios that emphasize both characters strengths and weaknesses as characters; Sonic would need to learn how to get by with just his speed without having Tails` flight of intellect on his side, while Eggman would have to direct most of his focus on stopping Sonic from ruining his plans and outsmarting him in any way he can.

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Really the reason why I'd want both of them working together against a powerful force. Lost World tried to play it off like their working together was a big deal, when... it really wasn't. Aside from one or two moments, Sonic could have done the whole thing by himself.

 

I'd like said game to have their working together actually MEAN something.

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Really the reason why I'd want both of them working together against a powerful force. Lost World tried to play it off like their working together was a big deal, when... it really wasn't. Aside from one or two moments, Sonic could have done the whole thing by himself.

 

I'd like said game to have their working together actually MEAN something.

Sonic didnt need Eggman to work with him in Lost World in fact he didnt really need Tails either... he was also an extra. >.>

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Sonic isn't really intelligent. He's not a complete idiot or anything like that, but you make him sound like he's on the same level as Tails/Eggman, or around that. As many problems I have with Lost World's terrible excuse for a plot, Sonic did need Tails and Eggman, because there's no possible way he would have been able to figure that machine out, and that's alright, because that's not Sonic's character. He's the action guy, he's the guy who will save anyone he can even if it means making silly mistakes. He's is literally the brawn to Tails' brain, and that's why those two work so well as a duo, because Tails is there to balance out the fact Sonic isn't as bright, while Sonic's there to give his little brother confidence and to protect him.

Claiming Sonic's intelligence is enough to start disabling Eggman's stuff like Tails is not only wrong, but it goes against the pre-established characters. You use Lost World as an example, and that's quite possibly one of the most damaging examples to your case, because literally, Sonic needed Tails or Eggman in order to save the day, because the machine that he needed to stop needed to be deactivated, not just blown to bits, which only Tails or Eggman can really do.   

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Sonic did need Tails and Eggman, because there's no possible way he would have been able to figure that machine out,

Yeah, for that. But that's part of my few examples. Sonic really only needed:

1. A genius to mess with the machine (Probably didn't even have to be Eggman or Tails)
2. Someone to get trapped by the Egg Capsule. Didn't really have to be Tails. Even then, Sonic PROBABLY could have overpowered the D6 in the cutscene afterwards.

3. Someone to save Sonic after the bridge breaks. Sonic probably wouldn't have stopped to comment on the view if Eggman weren't with him. So that'd probably have been bypassed.

 

Other than that, wasn't really needed. So them playing up this "ENEMIES UNITE" thing felt very underwhelming.

Edited by WittyUsername®
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Yeah, for that. But that's part of my few examples. Sonic really only needed:

1. A genius to mess with the machine (Probably didn't even have to be Eggman or Tails)
2. Someone to get trapped by the Egg Pod. Didn't really have to be Tails. Even then, Sonic PROBABLY could have overpowered the D6 in the cutscene afterwards.

3. Someone to save Sonic after the bridge breaks. Sonic probably wouldn't have stopped to comment on the view if Eggman weren't with him.

 

Other than that, wasn't really needed. So them playing up this "ENEMIES UNITE" thing felt very underwhelming.

Oh, I know. I'm pretty much known for despising Lost World's story and it's empty promises, and idiotic drama, but being fair, he still needed a genius to get the machine working, and Eggman and Tails are pretty much the only established characters with that kind of intelligence, especially considering the fact that it wasn't as simple as just putting the machine into reverse, but rather they actually needed to create a way to reverse the machine.

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He never built it, he owned it, that's it.

Okay, thank you. I thought for some reason he built it.

Anyway my point is that okay Sonic isnt machine smart or has IQ of 300 but hes still intellgent to when he knows from experiance. Sonic Colors is a good example where he puts his experiance to the advantage. 

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It can also be inferred that since the Tornado was fully functional before he met Tails that Sonic probably also has a small bit of engineering experience.  That is, in the same way that someone who invests in a fancy sports car will probably (or at least hopefully) have some basic experience working on cars, since those tend to be very high maintenance.  It's not a replacement for Tails' ingenuity, but I think primitive forms of technology wouldn't be beyond his level of comprehension.

Of course, this is all based on an inference, since the information that the classic Sonic canon gives us can also lead us, with equal validity, to the conclusion that the Tornado was sitting in a garage all day before Tails showed up.

Edited by Tara
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Okay, thank you. I thought for some reason he built it.

Anyway my point is that okay Sonic isnt machine smart or has IQ of 300 but hes still intellgent to when he knows from experiance. Sonic Colors is a good example where he puts his experiance to the advantage. 

Yes, he has experience with using his speed, and action. He doesn't have experience with reprogramming machines. It doesn't matter how long he's been fighting Eggman, his character has never been set up as being able to use machines or such. He's not a idiot or anything, but let's stop pretending that he's intelligent enough to the point where Tails becomes useless, because he simply isn't.

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Speaking of Sonic's intelligence, I think in recent games Sonic has been lacking some brains because of his reeeally high self-esteem. I hate Sonic's personality since Colors (but the game is alright btw), they make him look dumb in some moments to emphasize his motive on going fast and careless about the situation (he seems to only care on stopping Eggman's plans as if it's his job or something) (cutscene in Desert Ruins with Eggman is a priority example) and Tails is the smartest on his side but also with high self-esteem as well because he kinda thinks noone can outsmart him even Eggman. Eggman has also suffered, but the least. I mean, did someone find it funny when Eggman failed to make his laugh? Looks stupid. All is Eggman care about is building a kind of great empire that he will rule on. He doesn't even care about Sonic much, his main enemy (!), until he shows himself to stop Eggman's plans. Yes, for sure he wanted to built Robotnikland since Adventure, but back then he remembered that there is a guy called Sonic, and he can stop his plans any time. Eggman knows this and he can do an attack on Sonic whenever Sonic does not expect it  to be (Egg Hornet battle) but not at the last second when his plans already failed as of recent games.

This is what personalities shouldn't look like, in my opinion.

Perfect example of personalities, in my opinion, was most people hated (because of Chris) cartoon Sonic X. I love Sonic X. And I became a Sonic fan just because of this series. I love every character there because how personalities are well built. Sonic IS smart there, and we can see this very early. (in the second episode he figured out how to sneak up in a military base to save Cream and Cheese and this sure need some thinking over. Or take battle with Shadow on the streets, Sonic purposely give up to police to track Shadow on Prison Island and this definitely needs some quick thinking (notice that in SA2 police captured him without Sonic purposely giving up).
If look at Tails, he is smart yes, but he is not showing it that much. On the other side he is admired by Sonic's hero personality and wants to be brave just like him. He is smart and all, but it is not what driving his motives.

Eggman is funny in some moments, but that's alright because he compensate this by his seriousness to destroy Sonic. He purposely doing attacks on a city or whatever just to call Sonic to see if his recently built robot is mighty to destroy his enemy. And this is what I liked about Eggman.

Well.

I'm sorry if I made mistakes in text, I'm not English native speaker.

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Well, that's your opinion. I personally disagree with those ideas. In all for idea of better character development, which I think that recent games have lacked even if Lost World apparently tried it, but I don't honestly see that really possible with story only with Sonic and Eggman, especially with the current way things are handled in Sonic games.

And another thing: Am I the only one who is tired for Sonic team coming up with new gimmicks for Sonic that are either meant to replace other character or would suite better other characters, especially because many of those characters have never been used for their full potential? That seems to be some kind of trend for Sonic team, never using anything for the full potential until abandoning it.

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