My thoughts on playable friends m2k

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I have been doing a lot of thinking on this topic. While I still want Sonic only... I do like the playable friends.

As much I hate the shitvance series I like how they do the playable friends. They arent forced on me. I can finish my adventures with my favorite character to the end. I can play Super Sonic as well. 

I want a game where for playable friends, you can play with them in the main game but I don't want them to forced on me. I want to switch or play as the character of my choice. 

I think something like this will make all fans happy. Even a Solo Sonic fan like myself. 

[GoldfishGroup]

As much I hate the shitvance series I like how they do the playable friends.

Advance 1 was pretty good.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Advance 1 was pretty good.

The 3rd one was the best one even though I think it sucked to.

The 3rd one has intresting plays on playable friends. I want to see that return to

[GoldfishGroup]

The 3rd one was the best one even though I think it sucked to.

The 3rd one has intresting plays on playable friends. I want to see that return to

Really? I find Advance 1 to be better in just about every way.

[Salamander]

Advance 3 was where you could play as any two out of the five characters, with the partner having a modifying effect, am I correct?  I really liked that system too, but going forward, in a mainline game I think it would be better to have Sonic as the lead, but with swappable sidekicks who you rescue during the story, and each one has a different power (or combination of powers) and different effects.  In a handheld spin-off, though, it'd be fine to go with multiple playable characters who only represent slight differences in ability, like how in Rush Adventure you could (eventually) play as either Sonic or Blaze without a separate storyline or save file.

[Ripe]

I agree, I really like playing as other character in Sonic games, but to me the right way to do it is to make it like it was in 3 & Knuckles and Advance games, if you want to play only as Sonic, you can. I think it's a win-win situation to Sonic fans even if because this is a Sonic fanbase, there are definetely some people who will complain that there is even a option to play as other characters. And in 3D SEGAs have to really remember one basic thing: Sonic character needs to have their own gimmick AND speed, SA1 did this quite well but it was downhill from there (well, Heroes got it right but every team was pretty much the same). It's funny that fan game has done this much better than Sonic Team has ever done.

Advance games, I haven't played them that much but Advance 1 is my favourite, because of 1. I think it has the best level desing and 2. beside having different characters as an option, I would also like that they would be playable in the  beginning, at least some of them.

Advance 2 didn't have as good desing and I think they tried to make the basic 2D-gameplay a bit too complex with all those different moves.

And 3 had the teamwork, which I really like in Heroes but here there is one huge problem: some teams are cleary better than others because of the partners effect on the main character, for example, if I would pick my favourites, it would be Tails and Knuckles but I can't because the combination makes Tails worse than he normally is. And while some combinations are good, it seems like they desingned the game around Sonic-Tails pair. If they ever try this again, please make partners only benefial.

[FriendBot]

I think the team mechanic works better in 3D games than in 2D, to be honest. Even though I found Advance 3 to be my favorite out of the Advance trilogy, I never really bothered experimenting with other team combinations, I always playing as Sonic & Tails (in that order), reminded me of Sonic 2 and 3&K.

Advance 3 just found that perfect balance of high speed and platforming kind of like 3&K but of course, Advance 3 had plenty of bullshit moments that drag the game down but when it gets it right (Cyber Track Act 1 man <3), it's really good. Also helps that the Advance trilogy had a lot more unique settings from the classic games.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I am very open to the idea of Sonic Advance 3 like thing or even Sonic Advance 1. I want a game that I can play as Sonic to the end and play with Super Sonic as well. I do not want to be forced to play with the friends to play with Super Sonic. If i get the chaos emeralds as Sonic then I should be super Sonic.

 

If i want to play with the friends I can go back to them.

[Chaos Controller]

Really? I find Advance 1 to be better in just about every way.

Advance 1 is still one of the best Sonic games out there, in my opinion. I don't think they've made a 2D game that's topped it since.

Personally, I think  if they'd return to the Adventure-style Sonic levels and just allowed for playable characters in that type of set-up, it would work really well. I don't think the "Boost Formula" would really work with anyone who wasn't a speedster. I've kinda always viewed boosting as something that only Sonic, Shadow, and Metal Sonic are physically capable of.

[Sparky]

Advance 1 is still one of the best Sonic games out there, in my opinion. I don't think they've made a 2D game that's topped it since.

Personally, I think  if they'd return to the Adventure-style Sonic levels and just allowed for playable characters in that type of set-up, it would work really well. I don't think the "Boost Formula" would really work with anyone who wasn't a speedster. I've kinda always viewed boosting as something that only Sonic, Shadow, and Metal Sonic are physically capable of.

But practically every playable Sonic character is a speedster.

[Chaos Controller]

Yeah, everyone runs fast. I get what you're saying. But, do you really think having Tails or Amy "boost" is appropriate? Isn't Sonic special because he's much faster than the rest of his friends? To me, boosting is a representation of Sonic's superior speed.

I could be just reading way too much into it, though.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

The boost should be Sonic exlusive. 

[Sparky]

Yeah, everyone runs fast. I get what you're saying. But, do you really think having Tails or Amy "boost" is appropriate? Isn't Sonic special because he's much faster than the rest of his friends? To me, boosting is a representation of Sonic's superior speed.

I could be just reading way too much into it, though.

Tails is meant to be nearly as fast as Sonic, and from the very start can replicate Sonic's skills and his flight allows him to catch back up quickly when Sonic goes faster.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Sparky

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

That right there is what I dont like about the Shitvance series. I know its the "ideal" play for Sonic fans but I hate how everyone is bascially a better Sonic. Sonic with flying, gliding, climbing, hammers, chao, fire dragonball powers, chaos control. Ugh. 

Im not trying to be a biased fanbrat but I want Sonic to stand out and I think they need to give Sonic exlusive moves. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by Sonikku/

[Nepenthe]

I still subscribe to the thought that a character's motivations and personality should be ascribed onto the gameplay, and so from a design standpoint I don't think it makes sense to have everyone be a carbon-copy of Sonic with another ability attached. They should stay within the confines of a speedy platformer but the developers should be allowed to breathe and make certain characters a tad slower, or jump higher, or have projectiles, and take advantage of that with level design and gameplay goals that isn't strictly "get to the end of this stretch of land." Basically SA1 level design with Sonic 06 characters that aren't fucking horrid. Subsequently, I also don't get the problem with making other characters mandatory in some titles? Who cares so long as it's fun and enhances the experience?

Edited October 13, 2015 by Nepenthe

[Pawn]

Yeah, I don't believe that characters need to be optional for a game to work. The problem wasn't that you had to complete the other characters' levels to finish the story, but that completing their levels wasn't as fun in the first place.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Pawn

[Salamander]

I do think there is a real issue with other characters' gameplay boiling down to "Sonic but better."  But there were some catches - I recall that Knuckles couldn't jump as high, for instance?  And I think it makes a lot of sense for non-Sonic characters to be perceptibly slower; even Blaze was slightly slower than Sonic in the Rush games.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I dont want them to be forced on me. I want to play with the friends I when I want to. I want to play with my favorite character to the end of the game. 

[Tara]

I'm kind of in the middle when it comes to playable characters.  I don't think there's an inherently correct gameplay model when it comes to characters, as each format has its own strengths and weaknesses.  Furthermore, I don't think we have to settle on just one format for character selection. Rather, I think we should focus on alternating based on which one best suits the narrative and gameplay of a particular game.  Sonic Rush Adventure's character selection allows for the entirety of the main game (excluding side missions and bonus challenges) the choice between playing as Sonic or Blaze and allows you to change at the start of each level.  That's fine for Sonic Rush Adventure, because the characters are pretty much uniform and are constantly together in the story.  Not to mention, changing the characters really doesn't change the level design or progression in SRA, so just letting you choose whomever you want is a much better strategy for this particular game than forcing them on you.  Sonic Adventure, on the other hand (because we need another game with "Adventure" in the title to confuse me as I type), has a character selection where each character has their own independent story, so it makes sense that understanding the entirety of the story would be required before it all comes together in the final story.

Still, I think Sonic 3 & Knuckles has my favorite mode of character selection.  That is, you can choose from any of three characters, and you can beat the game with all of them, but Knuckles has a slightly different story than Sonic, etc.  It contrasts with Sonic Adventure and Sonic Advance, where you have to complete the game (and in the case of the latter, obtain all the Emeralds) as all the characters to unlock the true ending.  In the case of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, you don't have to know the ins and outs of Knuckles' story to get to the ending, but it's certainly beneficial if you care about the story.  But if you don't, the game doesn't withhold the rest of the content from you.  Of course, this model has its own problems.  For starters, the story really is only slightly different for each character, making the sense of choice seem relatively shallow.  Further, the game requires you to create a new save file if you want to change characters, which can largely just be attributed to the limited technology at the time but it's still annoying.  So as much as I like this style, I don't think it would work for a game like Sonic Adventure.

So basically, yeah, I think instead of focusing on one single "one size fits all" style of playable characters, I think we should focus on what works best for the game in question.

[Failinhearts]

I miss playing as different characters, myself. Sonic may be my favorite character from the franchise, but that doesn't mean I want to be restricted to just playing as him. However, it has to be fun. For example, I enjoy playing as Tails, Knuckles, Amy and even Gamma in SA1, Big on the other hand.... no.

Optional or not, as long as playing as these characters are fun, I'd dig it.

[Sparky]

Tails character is meant to play like Sonic + Flight. And, at its core, Flight is like the little brother sidekick of Speed, so the 2 are very closely connected and related.

Knuckles is meant to break through barriers and stuff for new shortcuts. 

Actually, the way Tails and Knuckles are meant to play is like how Flight Types and Power Types play in Sonic Riders. 

[Kuzu]

I generally prefer the way Sonic 3 & Knuckles did it myself, but I'm not opposed to alternatives either. Its not so much playing as other characters I had an issue with, but rather they were just horrible to play as and just made me wish I was playing Sonic instead. So obviously, the solution is to just make them actually fun and not a fucking chore to use. 

Its like, when I feel like the game is less fun whenever I'm not using Sonic, that's a fucking problem. Not saying I need to go fast, fast, fast constantly, but if what I'm stuck with is tedious and just plain not fun how else am I supposed to react. Every character shouldn't be a reskin of Sonic with an added ability or two, but at the same time, they should generally fit into what constitutes as a Sonic the Hedgehog video game, and not whatever random idea that pops into the developers head.

[Sparky]

Tails and Knuckles at their core are Sonic + X. Shadow is a Dark-Sonic that controls chaos instead of being chaos. Blaze is apparently a female fiery Sonic. Metal Sonic is exactly what his name is. Certain characters were just meant to play like Sonic. 

[Nepenthe]

I still think it's a fundamental mistake to dismiss these characters as just "Sonic + x," like they don't have their own unique physical attributes, personalities, ambitions, goals, etc. that are different. At the very least, even if we are going to just flatten them out into Sonic expies for some reason, can we at least not make them play the same level order as Sonic if they're not actively chasing or following him? Certain things just don't make sense in the context of an actual work of art. =/

[Your Vest Friend]

Even in S3&K Knuckles and Tails weren't Sonic + X. Knuckles' climbing, gliding and punching came at the cost of jump height so he was compromised in getting around Sonic's areas. Tails' flying and swimming came at the cost of not having the insta-shield for extra protection and not having the power to go near epileptic levels of super.