My thoughts on playable friends m2k

[Chaos Controller]

"Sonic + X" is probably the quickest and most accurate way to describe it, though, especially when you have the Adventure games -- that made each character operate in different gameplay genres altogether.

"Sonic + X" signifies that the overall gameplay structure is formed around how Sonic plays, as a base, and then they build off of that with a new ability or a twist. Tails and Knuckles levels, in SA2 for example, have completely different level designs and gameplay objectives. While, in S3&K, Tail and Knuckles still had to get to the end goal, just like Sonic, and had the same basic controls, but they could access new areas and tackle the same levels differently, because of the slight twists their special abilities brought to the table.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Chaos Controller

[Diogenes]

I still don't have any particular desire, and definitely no feelings of need, for other playable characters. First off, I don't care about any of the characters so much that I'd be pleased to control them in itself; what I care about is gameplay, far above and beyond anything else. To sell me on other playable characters, they'd need to find something for them to do between the lines of "not enough like Sonic, distracting and detracting from the game I want to play" and "too much like Sonic, including them was simply redundant" (though the latter I would at least settle for). Even if I had confidence that Sonic Team could nail that relatively narrow range and make something good out of it, I still wouldn't consider it a significantly better goal than just making good one-gameplay-style games.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I have other favorite characters I want to play with yes and I am overy open to play with them. However I do perfer Sonic to be solo in gameplay. Hes got alot of poetental for expending. 

[Chaos Controller]

I have other favorite characters I want to play with yes and I am overy open to play with them. However I do perfer Sonic to be solo in gameplay. Hes got alot of poetental for expending. 

Fair enough. I do wish they'd make more story-driven spin-off titles, though, to bring the other characters into the fold. Another RPG, perhaps? Or maybe a Star Fox-style shooter where Tails has pilot the Tornado and face off against the Battle Bird Armada again?

I dunno. Something.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Chaos Controller

[Lord-Dreamerz]

I'll say this quickly to get it out of the way. I'm tired of playing as only Sonic, and I want the option to not be forced to play as him in general.

 

I also have absolutely no interest in playing as Knuckles or Tails, I have other characters I like far more, such as Blaze & Metal-Sonic. I'm a character player, 1 of the top reasons I play games is mainly for the characters "If i like them", so I prefer to be able to play as characters I favor most, not just the main character of a series.

 

I would like if more future Sonic games focused on having multiple playable characters, except allowing you to only play as who you exactly want, such as Sonic 3&K or Mario 3D World do... or even games like Skylanders. don't force any character on the player if they don't want it. and again for the character list to not be limited to just the normal 3 guys in this series... Some of us do have faves outside those 3. It's the only reason I even play Sonic Runners... being able to play as characters I enjoy like Tikal is so amazing to me... to the point I often feel apathetic whenever I hear of a new Sonic game with only Sonic.

[D.H]

I'll say this quickly to get it out of the way. I'm tired of playing as only Sonic, and I want the option to not be forced to play as him in general.

 

I also have absolutely no interest in playing as Knuckles or Tails, I have other characters I like far more, such as Blaze & Metal-Sonic. I'm a character player, 1 of the top reasons I play games is mainly for the characters "If i like them", so I prefer to be able to play as characters I favor most, not just the main character of a series.

 

I would like if more future Sonic games focused on having multiple playable characters, except allowing you to only play as who you exactly want, such as Sonic 3&K or Mario 3D World do... or even games like Lego Dimensions. don't force any character on the player if they don't want it. and again for the character list to not be limited to just the normal 3 guys in this series... Some of us do have faves outside those 3. It's the only reason I even play Sonic Runners... being able to play as characters I enjoy like Tikal is so amazing to me... to the point I often feel apathetic whenever I hear of a new Sonic game with only Sonic.

Agreed. I don't want to play as just Sonic in the next Sonic game. And while I like Tails and Knuckles, they're not the only characters I want to play as too.

I want to play as Amy again, I want to play as Blaze again, etc. etc.

Just those three being playable, just seems boring to me.

[Moppsy]

I'll say this quickly to get it out of the way. I'm tired of playing as only Sonic, and I want the option to not be forced to play as him in general.

 

I also have absolutely no interest in playing as Knuckles or Tails, I have other characters I like far more, such as Blaze & Metal-Sonic. I'm a character player, 1 of the top reasons I play games is mainly for the characters "If i like them", so I prefer to be able to play as characters I favor most, not just the main character of a series.

 

I would like if more future Sonic games focused on having multiple playable characters, except allowing you to only play as who you exactly want, such as Sonic 3&K or Mario 3D World do... or even games like Skylanders. don't force any character on the player if they don't want it. and again for the character list to not be limited to just the normal 3 guys in this series... Some of us do have faves outside those 3. It's the only reason I even play Sonic Runners... being able to play as characters I enjoy like Tikal is so amazing to me... to the point I often feel apathetic whenever I hear of a new Sonic game with only Sonic.

In the exact same boat.  I don't have anything against Sonic but there are characters I enjoy more than the blue blur like Blaze, Cream, Silver, Amy, Tails etc.  It's almost gotten to the point where if it's just Sonic, I'll avoid the title.  Like you said, it's also why I tolerate and play Sonic Runners despite it's issues.  It's the only game where I can literally play any sonic franchise character I want that's semi fun.  Also, while not games, the Archie Comics are the main Sonic media I'm consuming because of the giant cast.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Taokaka

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Liking Sonic-only isnt very popular so your good

For me I perfer Sonic only because it gives Sonic a chance to shine more and it helps to expend on his moves. However I dont understand the problem with bening forced to play with Sonic. Sonic is the main character. Of course your forced to play with him. I dont want to be force to play with his friends. 

[Kuzu]

OK, as someone who also wants to play as additional characters, I don't understand the logic of not wanting to play as just Sonic. Unless its more about character loyalty than the gameplay itself, fine sure, but I'm like.....is playing as only Sonic that unappealing?

I used to be in the same boat honestly, but I got over it when I realized that the games are still good and fun regardless. So...are the games just not fun for you guys without your favorite character being playable?

[Regen]

I think they should introduce Tails as a playable character first. He's the only friend who still has relevance outside of the Boom canon, he's a very popular character and he's been done pretty well in Sonic Adventure so they have something to work with. I guess it's hard to make well-designed levels with flight in mind though. Mind you, part of the fun of Tails was breaking the game, I think Sonic Adventure intentionally set out to accomplish that, since you can 'cheat' with defined shortcuts to beat Sonic. The big problem is if they fuck him up like they did in Sonic '06 or when he was briefly playable normally in Sonic Heroes. Those stupid dummy rings.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Tails and then Knuckles would work. They do good in Sonic 4 Episode 2. I didnt like how I was forced to use him but still

[Moppsy]

Liking Sonic-only isnt very popular so your good

For me I perfer Sonic only because it gives Sonic a chance to shine more and it helps to expend on his moves. However I dont understand the problem with bening forced to play with Sonic. Sonic is the main character. Of course your forced to play with him. I dont want to be force to play with his friends. 

I don't really expect Sonic to ever stop shining even if his friends are playable in the same game.  In fact, he usually takes center stage in these types of games anyway.  Unless of course it's a spin off game like Tail's Adventure or Shadow the Hedgehog.  I guess you can call it over exposure.  I know Sonic in and out by now.  I know his quirks and his motivations.  For four games in a row recently he's had center stage and that's to be expected.  There are two ways I'd probably be satisfied.  One is to have a story that doesn't make it mandatory to play as all characters to get the final ending.  Advance 1 did this well.  The second would be a harmless spin off title with the main focus being on the side characters.  People who enjoy sonic and don't like being forced to play as the other characters can easily ignore it since the chances of a Sonic game with Sonic in it is vastly higher.  Sega won't stop making those games.

OK, as someone who also wants to play as additional characters, I don't understand the logic of not wanting to play as just Sonic. Unless its more about character loyalty than the gameplay itself, fine sure, but I'm like.....is playing as only Sonic that unappealing?

I used to be in the same boat honestly, but I got over it when I realized that the games are still good and fun regardless. So...are the games just not fun for you guys without your favorite character being playable?

It's a little bit of column A and little bit of column B.  Sonic Generations for example I do have fun playing that.  But I know I'd probably have more fun playing as my favorite characters.  And when it's just Sonic and the game play can't hold it together like in Lost Worlds, I just don't bother.  Whereas if the playable characters were still there but the gameplay was mediocre (not terrible), I'd find some joy out of it.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Taokaka

[Nepenthe]

OK, as someone who also wants to play as additional characters, I don't understand the logic of not wanting to play as just Sonic. Unless its more about character loyalty than the gameplay itself, fine sure, but I'm like.....is playing as only Sonic that unappealing?

I used to be in the same boat honestly, but I got over it when I realized that the games are still good and fun regardless. So...are the games just not fun for you guys without your favorite character being playable?

You can't have a franchise that for the overwhelming majority of its lifespan was mired in the design decision to use different characters at some point in the game, and then not expect people to be miffed when that's simply taken away for no reason for almost a decade. The beliefs about what consistent design elements a franchise should maintain from game to game are going to color a person's overall perception when they're changed or removed. Imagine a Mario platformer without power-ups, or Call of Duty without Kill Streaks, or Killer Instinct without Ultra Combos. These games could still function appropriately as their respective selves without these elements, but the audience has nonetheless acquired an emotional attachment to these things in terms of rationalizing and understanding these games' identities and the experience to be expected when buying them.

Just as well, it's not like most people annoyed about this haven't actually enjoyed Sonic only games before. I like the Storybook games and Unleashed (argument about the Werehog being another character or not aside), and I went into Colors willing to give it a chance. And in general I like playing Sonic gameplay; I mean, fuck I actually defended Boost gameplay. But completely removing the ability for people to enjoy using someone different for a little bit- even if it's just an optional for-the-hell-of-it decision (because, you know, games can do things just for fun's sake too)- inherently fucks over a good deal of the fan base with no tangible benefit towards any other presumed demographic, because the fact remains that most people could be theoretically satisfied with the decision to have optional characters. On top of that, this lack of gameplay is accompanied by the whole idea of just pushing everyone aside from Sonic and Tails out of the spotlight entirely for no actual reason that actually pays respect to their casts' personalities and the universe as it had been characterized up until that point. It was most painful in Generations, where no one else aside from Sonic did shit.

And on top of that the games aren't all that good anyway. =/ Seriously. Sonic games haven't become any noticeably better or competitive since this has happened.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Nepenthe

[Lord-Dreamerz]

OK, as someone who also wants to play as additional characters, I don't understand the logic of not wanting to play as just Sonic. Unless its more about character loyalty than the gameplay itself, fine sure, but I'm like.....is playing as only Sonic that unappealing?

I used to be in the same boat honestly, but I got over it when I realized that the games are still good and fun regardless. So...are the games just not fun for you guys without your favorite character being playable?

Personally I don't play games "Just" for their gameplay. Sure fun gameplay is cool and all... but that's not enough to get me to play it, honestly I care not care less if the gameplay is amazing, If I don't have fun characters I want to play as then I don't care about the game whatsoever. And before anybody gets the wrong idea, I don't dislike Sonic himself... I just really don't want to play as him for a good while. I do however want to play as other Sonic characters that I like.

 

And honestly If I was only gonna play a game for it's gameplay... then I would not play almost any modern Sonic game at all.

 

However I dont understand the problem with bening forced to play with Sonic. Sonic is the main character. Of course your forced to play with him. I dont want to be force to play with his friends. 

You are saying you don't want to be forced to play as the friends... but you are telling us that we should be forced to play as Sonic? look at it from our point of view, if we told you that you should be forced to play as the other characters then that wouldn't be very cool of us would it? Also we are not saying you should be forced to play as any 1 character, at least I was suggesting for the player to be able to pick who they want to play as, even if it doesn't effect the story like it doesn't in Sonic Runners which would be fine. It still would be better for most.

[Kuzu]

OK, what Nepenthe said makes a lot more sense. When something you've been used to for so long is simply taken away for discernible reason other than to pacify someone else's needs, yea I'd be...pretty fucking annoyed too. You can make a game that's game of the fucking year with top tier Sonic gameplay, but I still wouldn't be able to play as Tails or Knuckles when that's what I fucking want.

[Nepenthe]

To be more specific, it's not like the lack of characters is a total deal-breaker regardless of the quality of the game. Most people aren't going to nail a game as shit simply because only Sonic is playable. It's that the context surrounding the decision to essentially axe the extended cast is disrespectful to those characters and full of bullshit reasoning that doesn't make sense in a meta context or one concerning how the universe was defined. Now, it would be fine if the new design decisions were pulled off in a way to make up for this heel-turn to where I couldn't reasonably complain. Seriously, give me the mechanical equivalent of Super Mario Galaxy or make something with the soul of Unleashed again, I'm probably going to be pacified and shrug the Sonic-only bit off. But I can't even get an exciting or innovative game out of it. 

This isn't the zero-sum game Sonic-only proponents have been allowed to define the issue as, but rather an issue concerning compromise. I want something- anything- to look forward to. If I'm not getting anything out of the deal, then I'm probably going to complain loudest about the things that would be easiest for the other side to relent on for the sake of mutual satisfaction. "Hey, can I play as Tails in Colors' arcade multiplayer? Not only would it be nice to have some variety, but it wouldn't actually infringe on the part of the game that's mandatory if people would be against that. Just as well, it would be a nice reflection of Sonic and Tails' friendship in the game if you and another player could use them together." "No, fuck you, Sonic only forever." I mean, jeez.

[Tara]

This is probably going to be a rather controversial post, but the heck with it.

While I'm definitely in huge agreement that part of playable characters means that Sonic shouldn't be put on a pedestal of importance when it comes to playability, or that we don't have to have a single forced character to play as in Sonic's stead... I also think that I wouldn't mind seeing a game where we essentially forget Sonic altogether and just focus on other characters.  I'd like to see an expansion of the universe that shows how the characters survive and interact WITHOUT Sonic.  Plus, some of these characters, like Blaze, maybe Knuckles, actually would work perfectly fine within the context of their own narrative without Sonic being necessary.  And yes, I'm aware that we can still have all these things with Sonic in it.

What I'm saying is that Sonic doesn't have to be a necessary component any more than any other character.  He can be exchanged and substituted just as much as Tails, Knuckles, or anyone else.  We can still have Sonic, of course, but he's not always inherently more vital to the gameplay than the other characters.

This is, of course, speaking theoretically and not economically.  We all know Sega aren't exactly inclined to give any characters their own games in the aftermath of Shadow the Hedgehog, and it makes sense that it's not nearly as commercially viable to release games that center around less well known characters as compared to their flagship franchise.  It's still a nice idea in theory, though.

[D.H]

This is probably going to be a rather controversial post, but the heck with it.

While I'm definitely in huge agreement that part of playable characters means that Sonic shouldn't be put on a pedestal of importance when it comes to playability, or that we don't have to have a single forced character to play as in Sonic's stead... I also think that I wouldn't mind seeing a game where we essentially forget Sonic altogether and just focus on other characters.  I'd like to see an expansion of the universe that shows how the characters survive and interact WITHOUT Sonic.  Plus, some of these characters, like Blaze, maybe Knuckles, actually would work perfectly fine within the context of their own narrative without Sonic being necessary.  And yes, I'm aware that we can still have all these things with Sonic in it.

What I'm saying is that Sonic doesn't have to be a necessary component any more than any other character.  He can be exchanged and substituted just as much as Tails, Knuckles, or anyone else.  We can still have Sonic, of course, but he's not always inherently more vital to the gameplay than the other characters.

This is, of course, speaking theoretically and not economically.  We all know Sega aren't exactly inclined to give any characters their own games in the aftermath of Shadow the Hedgehog, and it makes sense that it's not nearly as commercially viable to release games that center around less well known characters as compared to their flagship franchise.  It's still a nice idea in theory, though.

I actually like the idea of a game where you play as Tails, Knuckles, Amy, & others instead of Sonic.

It would be a nice change of pace.

To be more specific, it's not like the lack of characters is a total deal-breaker regardless of the quality of the game. Most people aren't going to nail a game as shit simply because only Sonic is playable. It's that the context surrounding the decision to essentially axe the extended cast is disrespectful to those characters and full of bullshit reasoning that doesn't make sense in a meta context or one concerning how the universe was defined. Now, it would be fine if the new design decisions were pulled off in a way to make up for this heel-turn to where I couldn't reasonably complain. Seriously, give me the mechanical equivalent of Super Mario Galaxy or make something with the soul of Unleashed again, I'm probably going to be pacified and shrug the Sonic-only bit off. But I can't even get an exciting or innovative game out of it. 

This isn't the zero-sum game Sonic-only proponents have been allowed to define the issue as, but rather an issue concerning compromise. I want something- anything- to look forward to. If I'm not getting anything out of the deal, then I'm probably going to complain loudest about the things that would be easiest for the other side to relent on for the sake of mutual satisfaction. "Hey, can I play as Tails in Colors' arcade multiplayer? Not only would it be nice to have some variety, but it wouldn't actually infringe on the part of the game that's mandatory if people would be against that. Just as well, it would be a nice reflection of Sonic and Tails' friendship in the game if you and another player could use them together." "No, fuck you, Sonic only forever." I mean, jeez.

This. It's especially annoying during Generations.

Not only did we get a mundane story that was full of missed potential, but they included almost every Sonic character from the Legacy universe, and none of them except Sonic and Classic Sonic are playable.

I see Tails, Classic Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Blaze, Rouge, Silver, Shadow, Cream, & The Chaotix, and I just think "Why can't we play as those characters?!"

Edited October 17, 2015 by D.H

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

You can do a spin off game with those characters then :/

I dont like the idea of forgetting about the hero. No. This is Sonic the Hedgehog. Im trying to be a good Sonic fan I really am but this makes me very angry I cant

[Tara]

What makes a character important is not just the things he does but how he impacts others in both his presence and his absence.  The entire Batman series capitalizes well on the idea that Batman as a character doesn't need to be the hero in every instance.  That's why we have Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Batwoman, etc. all having their own series, in addition to being prominent players within the main Batman stories.  I mean, there's even periods of time where Batman LEAVES Gotham City to handle something else, leaving the rest of the Bat family to pick up his work in his absence.  There's no reason Sonic can't also have that kind of thing.  Heck, even as far back as 1993, Sega didn't show much hesitation for allowing Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine to have no Sonic in it at all.  Granted, Mean Bean Machine wasn't exactly a great game, but it didn't hurt anything by not having Sonic in it.

If having two seconds of character exploration other than Sonic weakens the character, then that means Sonic is already a weak character.  And even at that, you're not obligated to purchase or play every Sonic game, so I don't see why it bothers you so much when, if there's a game you don't like because it doesn't have the character you want, you don't have to buy it.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Spooky Scary Skeletaras

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I can care less if a game doesnt have Sonic. I dont want him to be treated like shit or to be weak to make others look good. If thats not what you want then Im apologise. Sonic is not just my favorite character but I look up to him as a hero and I dont want him to be not respected. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Sonikku/

[Tara]

I don't see how you got that idea at all?

Like, focusing on other characters doesn't detract from Sonic.  It simply expands the universe around him, which is only ever a positive thing.

[Zaysho]

I can care less if a game doesnt have Sonic. I dont want him to be treated like shit or to be weak to make others look good. If thats not what you want then Im apologise. 

No one said this, though.

Giving the characters their own development away from Sonic does not mean treating Sonic worse or making him weak to make the others look good. How do you even come to that conclusion?

These characters have their own lives, and I don't believe they revolved around Sonic or require him being there 24/7. Besides, don't you think them receiving more development and doing their part would actually allow them to help Sonic, too? I seriously don't want to see another game like Generations where everyone sticks their thumbs up their noses and cheers Sonic on like a bunch of helpless children, especially when they all have a stake in the battle, and Sonic actually values his friends' help.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Zaysho

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I don't see how you got that idea at all?

Like, focusing on other characters doesn't detract from Sonic.  It simply expands the universe around him, which is only ever a positive thing.

Okay I understand. 

[Kuzu]

Honestly, a narrative without Sonic is something I would definitely welcome. I have nothing against the guy, he's my favorite character and I love him to death, but I really get the feeling literally every single supporting character just revolves around him. Sonic befriends, he moves on to his next big adventure and that's the end of any reason we should give a damn about them because they're lives outside of Sonic apparently don't matter? What kind of bullshit is that, that's not how world building works. And I get he's the main character, and therefore the one who should have some of the stronger dynamics but its pretty telling when this series has such a large supporting cast and yet most of them can just be summed as "Sonic's friends" :\

 

And hell, Sonic not being as prominent only makes his eventual appearances that much more special, because since he's the main character, you know he's going to be the one who stirs things up the most. I would gladly welcome a side series like Archie's Sonic Universe; just a series of games focusing on the extended cast for once without Sonic's presence. How does Blaze govern her kingdom? What's a day like for Knuckles on Angel Island all day? What kind of cases do the Chaotix solve in their spare time? I shouldn't have to just see these characters when they're just supporting Sonic.

 

But this is all wishful thinking at this point because I know Sega are just content with making everything about Sonic, Tails, and Eggman and to hell with everyone else. Even if they did bring in additional characters, they'd probably just play inconsequential roles like Generations and Lost World. And people will play it anyway and call it good because "Fuck you, nobody but Sonic matters and you're wrong for thinking otherwise". I'm really kind of thankful for the comics right now because I'd probably just drop the series altogether and just read fanfiction if I had to deal with the game's shit anymore.