Sonic and Knuckles treasure hunting idea

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

So I had a idea for Sonic finding emerald peices but I then sat down and thought more on this. 

So the idea is that after Eggman shatters it,  Sonic and Knuckles team together in there adventure to find the peices of the Master Emerald. It splits into equal peices so enough peices for both to find equally. Sonic breaks into Tails workshop to build a tracker (like the one from Sonic x where Sonic uses for area 99) for both of them to find the emerald peices. Along the way they both find out bits and peices of the history behind it alsong with other artifacts. Together two friends help each other and to use the Master Emerald to stop Eggman from using the Chaos Emeralds.

The gameplay. What is cool about this is that there ... Sonic is in the action to. He can use his spindash to dig and he can use his kick sliding or drifting to break walls. Same with Knuckles except he has built in tools so he can dig longer where Sonic can dig faster. Also Sonic can make up for not flying with his parkour. So both characters are treated with the same respect.

Bascilally like Sonic and Knuckles in 3D and them actually working and respecting each other as friends. Sonic understand his friend wanting to protect the emeralds and return they respect each other. Sonic lends his talents in languages and critial thinking as well. 

[DarkDefeater]

Not a bad idea. Ya know, if Sonic Unleashed focused more on such a concept instead the werehog, it would have been much better received.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Not a bad idea. Ya know, if Sonic Unleashed focused more on such a concept instead the werehog, it would have been much better received.

Thanks.

Though I thought the werehog was awesome. Its shows a strength and awesome side to Sonic to be expend on. 

[Sonictrainer]

Ya know, if Sonic Unleashed focused more on such a concept instead the werehog, it would have been much better received.

Wait, what?

[Ripe]

Ok. First of all the whole shattered master emerald plot has already used twice (and second time it was only there to have an excuse for Knuckles to be there) and honestly, I don't want to see that again, there has to be some other way to have Knuckles in game without creating a plothole.

Second Sonic can build a tracker himself? This is personal but I don't want to havd the only reason why Tails has been in the games recently removed (and it would also be a plothole).

Third, why can't levels just have only goal: get to the goal? I liked treasure hunting in SA1 but SA2 made sure that I don't want them to return, that's why I haven't played Unleashed yet (of course there is the Werehog, I'm just not fan of the whole genre). And don't get me wrong, I like searching hidden things in games but not when finding them are mandatory, it just comes out as pointless padding. And then there is again the problem with the whole character replacing gimmick.

[Bowbowis]

So I had a idea for Sonic finding emerald peices but I then sat down and thought more on this. 

So the idea is that after Eggman shatters it,  Sonic and Knuckles team together in there adventure to find the peices of the Master Emerald. It splits into equal peices so enough peices for both to find equally. Sonic breaks into Tails workshop to build a tracker (like the one from Sonic x where Sonic uses for area 99) for both of them to find the emerald peices. Along the way they both find out bits and peices of the history behind it alsong with other artifacts. Together two friends help each other and to use the Master Emerald to stop Eggman from using the Chaos Emeralds.

The gameplay. What is cool about this is that there ... Sonic is in the action to. He can use his spindash to dig and he can use his kick sliding or drifting to break walls. Same with Knuckles except he has built in tools so he can dig longer where Sonic can dig faster. Also Sonic can make up for not flying with his parkour. So both characters are treated with the same respect.

Bascilally like Sonic and Knuckles in 3D and them actually working and respecting each other as friends. Sonic understand his friend wanting to protect the emeralds and return they respect each other. Sonic lends his talents in languages and critial thinking as well. 

Alright, a few questions:

1. Why does Eggman shatter the Emerald? Chaos has already been pacified, the only thing Eggman stand to gain from smashing the Emerald would be an angry Knuckles on his ass, which is really more of loss. I suppose you could always do a repeat of SA2 and have Knuckles shatter it intentionally to stop it from being stolen, or have them fighting with the Emerald getting caught in the crossfire, but if what you're looking for is a villain who is deliberately out to break the Emerald then a monster of the week would make more sense than Eggman.

2. Why does Sonic need to break into Tails' workshop? They are still friends right? Why not just politely ask Tails to let him in?

3. Since when does Sonic know how to build a tracker? I know you really want him to demonstrate that he's not stupid, but there is a big difference between "not stupid" and "electrical engineer". Also, tying back into the above, why not ask Tails to build a tracker? Even if Sonic could build one Tails is still more skilled at it.

4. Why do they even need a tracker when Knuckles can already sense the Emerald's location naturally?

5. Why can Sonic suddenly dig and smash walls all of a sudden? Why not diversify and give Sonic the bounce to reach ledges Knuckles can't and the lightspeed dash and/or homing attack to cross gaps too wide to glide across? Sonic's established moveset brings plenty to the table as is, he doesn't need to start stealing moves from Knuckles in order to be useful.

6. Why does Sonic even need to be in this at all? Knuckles has twice proven that he can restore the Emerald on his own and he's really not the sort of guy who would ask for help. I'm not saying that Sonic can't get involved but he's going to need a better reason than "I want to help out my buddy Knuckles," not necessarily because Sonic wouldn't offer his help in such a situation (he totally would, barring extenuating circumstances), but because Knuckles would be too stubbornly prideful to accept it.

I'm not saying that a Sonic and Knuckles treasure hunting game is necessarily a bad idea for a spin-off (although I'm also the guy who thinks that a Sonic Musou would be a great idea so maybe I'm not the best judge), you just need to think things through a bit more thoroughly.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Bowbowis

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Alright, a few questions:

1. Why does Eggman shatter the Emerald? Chaos has already been pacified, the only thing Eggman stand to gain from smashing the Emerald would be an angry Knuckles on his ass, which is really more of loss. I suppose you could always do a repeat of SA2 and have Knuckles shatter it intentionally to stop it from being stolen, or have them fighting with the Emerald getting caught in the crossfire, but if what you're looking for is a villain who is deliberately out to break the Emerald then a monster of the week would make more sense than Eggman.

2. Why does Sonic need to break into Tails' workshop? They are still friends right? Why not just politely ask Tails to let him in?

3. Since when does Sonic know how to build a tracker? I know you really want him to demonstrate that he's not stupid, but there is a big difference between "not stupid" and "electrical engineer". Also, tying back into the above, why not ask Tails to build a tracker? Even if Sonic could build one Tails is still more skilled at it.

4. Why do they even need a tracker when Knuckles can already sense the Emerald's location naturally?

5. Why can Sonic suddenly dig and smash walls all of a sudden? Why not diversify and give Sonic the bounce to reach ledges Knuckles can't and the lightspeed dash and/or homing attack to cross gaps too wide to glide across? Sonic's established moveset brings plenty to the table as is, he doesn't need to start stealing moves from Knuckles in order to be useful.

6. Why does Sonic even need to be in this at all? Knuckles has twice proven that he can restore the Emerald on his own and he's really not the sort of guy who would ask for help. I'm not saying that Sonic can't get involved but he's going to need a better reason than "I want to help out my buddy Knuckles," not necessarily because Sonic wouldn't offer his help in such a situation (he totally would, barring extenuating circumstances), but because Knuckles would be too stubbornly prideful to accept it.

I'm not saying that a Sonic and Knuckles treasure hunting game is necessarily a bad idea for a spin-off (although I'm also the guy who thinks that a Sonic Musou would be a great idea so maybe I'm not the best judge), you just need to think things through a bit more thoroughly.

1. My idea was that Eggman has collected all the chaos emeralds and he knows they can use the master emerald to shut off the emeralds. So he breaks it and Sonic and Knuckles has to find the peices before Eggman uses the chaos emeralds. 

2 and 3. I wanted to have it where Tails was on vacation so he wasnt around. So Sonic goes in his workshop and builds the trackers. Also Sonic has a thing to where when he sees other characters do something he can teach himself how to do it. Also part of my headcanon that Sonic has been teaching himself to make gadets incase Tails isnt around. Also I wanted to show that Sonic was intellgent because he is. He isnt stupid.

4. The trackers were mostly for Sonic. But I did it for both because the trackers can talk to the other. So Sonic can communicate with his friend.

5. Sonic has smashed walls in other games even in the classics when you roll right he can use his spindash to break walls. He also did it in the shitvance series to. I want to do it in a way that hes using his own moves to do it like drifting. Maybe Sonic digging i a little far I agree. I wanted to show Sonic can do these things with his own styles.

6. The game idea was suppose to show there friendship and how Sonic respects Knuckles and what he does. Also Knuckles respects Sonic and his skills. Sonic is also the main guy of the game so he has to be here plus he uses his reasoning and his love for helping to let Knuckles let him help him,

[Chaos Controller]

Wait, what?

I think what he's trying to say is that if the Night/Combat stages in Unleashed consisted of Knuckles beating enemies up, instead of the Werehog, fans would've been a lot cooler with it.

I can't say I disagree.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I disagree. What's wrong with Sonic having cool stuffs for a change? Plus the werehog was alot of fun and brought virity to Sonic. 

[Komodin]

I disagree. What's wrong with Sonic having cool stuffs for a change? Plus the werehog was alot of fun and brought virity to Sonic. 

 

When has Sonic not had any cool stuff to have and/or do, though? If anything, a problem that the series has had is that most of the supporting cast cannot really do anything awesome themselves like Sonic.

Like it's been said before, there's nothing at all wrong with having a game where Sonic isn't jobbed a la wrestling, but that can be done without making it so that Sonic is the only one who can do thing of note.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

 

When has Sonic not had any cool stuff to have and/or do, though? If anything, a problem that the series has had is that most of the supporting cast cannot really do anything awesome themselves like Sonic.

Like it's been said before, there's nothing at all wrong with having a game where Sonic isn't jobbed a la wrestling, but that can be done without making it so that Sonic is the only one who can do thing of note.

I did this game idea to show two friends working together and Sonic still gets to have cool stuffs and hes not dummed down for another character. I treated them with respect. 

[Bowbowis]

1. My idea was that Eggman has collected all the chaos emeralds and he knows they can use the master emerald to shut off the emeralds. So he breaks it and Sonic and Knuckles has to find the peices before Eggman uses the chaos emeralds. 

Okay, so he wants to prevent the heroes from using the Master Emerald to neutralize the Chaos Emerald. That explains why he's targeting the Emerald but it still leaves the question of why he decides to smash it instead of just stealing it and using its power for his own ends. If nothing else he could always lock it away in a safe someplace where he can actually keep an eye on it instead of just hoping that Knuckles won't be able to find all the shards even when history show that he most certainly will.

 

2 and 3. I wanted to have it where Tails was on vacation so he wasnt around. So Sonic goes in his workshop and builds the trackers. Also Sonic has a thing to where when he sees other characters do something he can teach himself how to do it. Also part of my headcanon that Sonic has been teaching himself to make gadets incase Tails isnt around. Also I wanted to show that Sonic was intellgent because he is. He isnt stupid.

But what does that add to the story? Would such a scene actually benefit the narrative or the characters in any significant fashion? More to the point why exactly do you feel the need to prove that Sonic is intelligent? I haven't seen anybody seriously claiming that he's a moron, and it's not a situation like the one with Knuckles where the character's IQ has taken a huge hit. Sonic is about how he's always been, which is to say, clever, but otherwise pretty average in the gray-matter department. I'm sure he's picked up a few tricks over the years and he's resourceful enough that he might be able to MacGyver up some basic tools in a pinch, but he's not really an inventor like Tails is. You're trying to remedy a non-issue here, and frankly your kind of screwing Tails over in the process.

 

4. The trackers were mostly for Sonic. But I did it for both because the trackers can talk to the other. So Sonic can communicate with his friend.

If Sonic and Knuckles are working together then Knuckles should be able to tell Sonic where the Emerald shards are without the needing a tracking device. Besides the crew are already well established to have Emerald radars (Riders intro) and wireless communications devices (Cannon's Core, Final Hazard, Metal Overlord, The Last Way, Devil Doom, Solaris, Time Eater) already so there's no reason to create new ones anyway.

 

5. Sonic has smashed walls in other games even in the classics when you roll right he can use his spindash to break walls. He also did it in the shitvance series to. I want to do it in a way that hes using his own moves to do it like drifting. Maybe Sonic digging i a little far I agree. I wanted to show Sonic can do these things with his own styles.

Sonic has been able to break walls in other games, that much is true. The thing is that this hypothetical game is explicitly focused on a pair of characters who's whole dynamic basically boils down to strength vs speed. Now if you want to do something like what Heroes did where tough materials like stone and metal can only broken by Knuckles but weaker materials like wood and glass can still be broken by Sonic then I don't see much of an issue with it, but if you make the fast character just as strong as the strong character the whole dynamic kind of collapses on itself. Beyond that though one of the fundamentals of teamwork is that all parties bring to the table something that the others lack, if Sonic can do everything Knuckles can do and more then Knuckles become redundant and they cease to function as a true team. I suppose it could still theoretically work if they were equal in all areas, but unless you're willing to give Knuckles a way to run at mach 1 you'd be better off just letting Knuckles keep his stuff while Sonic keep his.

 

6. The game idea was suppose to show there friendship and how Sonic respects Knuckles and what he does. Also Knuckles respects Sonic and his skills. Sonic is also the main guy of the game so he has to be here plus he uses his reasoning and his love for helping to let Knuckles let him help him,

I get the Doylist reasoning of having a game that explores Sonic and Knuckles relationship but the scenario you've proposed is hard to justify from a Watsonian perspective. A guy like Knuckles views his self-sufficiency as a point of pride, if he feels that something is his responsibility he's not going to be receptive to any offers to help because he feels that accepting aid is a sign of weakness because it means that he cannot carry out his assigned duties under his own power. Trying to force your assistance on him is just going to piss him off because he interprets it as sign that you think he's inadequate. I know this because I'm exactly the same way; hubristic minds think alike. Sonic may not need a reason to help, but Knuckles needs a reason to let him.

Beyond that Sonic may be the main character of the franchise but he is not the center of its universe. There's nothing wrong with letting him take the back seat every now and then and exploring the world through someone else's eyes for a change. No character is cut out for every role, that's why SEGA created such a large cast in the first place. Trying to shoehorn a character into a story where they don't fit is how we wind up with stuff like Tails' personality doing a 180^o in Lost World.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Bowbowis

[Chaos Controller]

I disagree. What's wrong with Sonic having cool stuffs for a change? Plus the werehog was alot of fun and brought virity to Sonic. 

So, Sonic running faster than the speed of sound hasn't been cool this whole time...?

I don't hate the Werehog, like a lot of fans do. But, all it really did was rob another character from being playable in the game. Knuckles totally fits the bill for combat-oriented beat-em-up stages, and Tails and Amy were already in the plot. It would've united all four of them together.

Also, recharging the drained Chaos Emeralds with ancient temples? Totally seems like something Knuckles would take a direct interest in. Just sayin'.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Chaos Controller

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I find it very weird that you seem to think that "Sonic's not stupid" = "Sonic can build a tracking device". Anyone who can't create advanced technology isn't "smart"? I'm actually not at all against the idea of Sonic being "smart", I think it would be downright interesting to show him using his head more, but what the heck is the point of making him smart in a way that exactly matches how another character is smart? There are many kinds of intelligence, yanno. It seems very shallow to equate intelligence to excelling at one particular science.

You really do have some interesting ideas, honestly. I'm sure this could be fun in some ways IF it was handled right. But an entire Sonic game focused on treasure hunting doesn't really sound very good to me. I didn't like it in SA2 and in SA, it was certainly fine, but nothing particularly great. It just seems like it's not the most entertaining game Sega could make, to say the least ;P

That being said, this could be fun as a mini-level or a mini-game or something, or maybe even a smaller component of a larger game (though I'm very wary of alternate gameplay styles).

[Indigo Rush]

It's an interesting idea! I've kind of wanted a "Sonic & Knuckles 2" sort of game where just the two are playable. As far as your idea goes, I'm not going to comment on gameplay elements, but I'd like to offer some constructive criticism on the story premise.

Sonic has street/action smarts, Tails has book/tech smarts and Knuckles has fighting/nature smarts. Each character has something unique to offer, so it's not really necessary to impose everything onto just one character to force them to look better. (When has Sonic ever been known to build high tech machinery or talk in multiple languages?) Good writing shows that a character can do cool things despite their flaws.

For the sake of this game concept, let's say that Sonic doesn't need to build a tracker to be smart, he easily can show off his deceptively cunning wit in the middle of a battle or action sequence where he quickly turns the tables against his opponent. For Tails, I'm not sure why he would be on vacation when such a serious issue is at hand with the Master Emerald. Even if we're to assume he can't jump in on the action like the old days, he can at least provide a strategy to how Sonic and Knuckles can round up the missing pieces. But since Tails isn't to be playable in this game, he can provide some handy tech support and tries to keep everyone working together.

The rest writes itself: In his pride, Knuckles refuses Sonic and Tails' aid and relies on his own instinct to find the shards, and even manages to hold his own for a while. By marching to the beat of his own drum, however, he comes into conflict with Sonic at some point in the 2nd act of the story, messing up their gameplan, costing a few shards or something. Cue a Sonic vs Knuckles fight sequence that isn't based off of Eggman tricking Knuckles for the 20th time. Tails quells the fight and scolds them both for not working together. From that point on, they're all on the same page and gather the rest of the shards, with a moment where Knuckles redeems himself by turning the tides in a huge battle, saving Sonic and Tails' skins. Everyone contributes, and it lampshades the age-old Sonic moral of the importance of working together as a team.

Just spitballin' a bit there, but this way, Tails didn't need to be playable without being useless, Sonic isn't a moron and Knuckles does an excellent job actually contributing something; all the while sticking to the main thesis of the game: Sonic & Knuckles collect emerald shards and are a team.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Indigo Rush

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Here I am!! 

Anyway I like that idea. However as for Tails being in the game I didnt want him to be in the game at first. Like with Lost World there was no reason for him to be in the game other then to ...... yeah. Also its just me and i could be wrong but the with Tails i didnt like the direction hes heading. It makes me feel.... unconforable. Sonic Colors was great! Sonic Lost World I wanted to strangle him. And its just me but his whole additude and presense in Sonic Lost World makes Sonic seem stupid in the game.

But its also the writing to. Sonic should have been able to pull a lever and shut down the machine with Eggman. He could have figure out things himself. This was a oppertunity for Eggman and Sonic to work together in there own game. But they try to make Sonic look bad by saying he doesnt trust Tails which Sonic never say or impley. But the game makes Sonic apologise for something he didnt do!!! The only thing he has to apologise for is acting brash. They have done this in the Jp version to but there Tails tries to rub it more in Sonic's face.

Sorry for my rant. I wanted to defend why I choose to not having Tails in the game. I just dont like the direction he's going. And I want Sonic to not look stupid or bad. 

As for Knuckles, I do like the idea that they split but then realises that he needs Sonic's help and they fight without Eggman tricking him. That was being old anyway, meaning Eggman tricking him. I have always wanted to see them together as friends and for Sonic to pal with someone else for a change. Also the dymanic of a character who speaks with his heart and the other with brute strength is awesome!

Maybe you are right about Sonic bulding trackers and he doesnt need to. I wanted to show his intellecual independence in this one and how he can share it with Knuckles. I understand its wrong to say that because Sonic cant build things that he's stupid. Its just that when someone tells me that Sonic isnt smart or enough or tells me to stop pretending he is (because ive been told this in a different thread) then it does make me thing people dont think he's smart.

 

[D.H]

That's not a bad idea, actually.

The plot could use some polishing, but other than that, I actually like the sound of another Knuckles & Sonic game.

Personally, I wouldn't mind some games where we see Sonic team up with someone other than Tails (like Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic & Amy, another Sonic & Blaze game, etc).

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I do have a question for everyone: did I make Sonic too perfect again? All I wanted to do was have him be respected.

[Muscles Maximum]

Sonic is already respected. If anything, it's basically the other characters that don't get the respect they deserve.

[D.H]

I do have a question for everyone: did I make Sonic too perfect again? All I wanted to do was have him be respected.

Sonic does have some smarts. but I don't think he should be as smart as Tails. He shouldn't be a complete, total idiot, and I do agree that Lost World did a terrible job handling Sonic, but it makes more sense for Sonic to have street smarts, as opposed to technical smarts. 

[Kuzu]

I actually do like the idea of Sonic & Knuckles being the main focus of a game, I enjoy their dynamic a lot more than Sonic & Tails.

That said, I think this idea needs a bit more fleshing out; I don't mind treasuring hunting, but I would try to address the focus on how it plays out.

 

Additionally, as everyone else has said, you don't  need Sonic displaying traits he's never shown before...I mean this series already does that, but let's not encourage it any more. Sonic isn't a tech guy, so its not really appropriate for him to be building things like, even more so if he's breaking into Tails` house...like why would he even need to do that? They're friends aren't they?

Just have Sonic search for them to old fashioned way, using his wits; in fact, it's more interesting for Sonic to try and get by without at his side for once.

 

 

 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I want him treated with respect. That's all. Not like some randome dumbass.

[Kuzu]

I want him treated with respect. That's all. Not like some randome dumbass.

Why do you assume if he's not super smart that he's a "random dumbass"? You're thinking way too extremely :\

[Zaysho]

I want him treated with respect. That's all. Not like some randome dumbass.

Sonic is shown to be resourceful, able to think quickly on his feet, and is highly adaptable to most situations that he finds himself in. He's far from a "random dumbass." Handing over Tails's role and skills to him to "prove" he isn't stupid is a disservice to Tails and it doesn't make sense with Sonic's character, who is simply not shown to be technologically inclined (perhaps beyond flying a plane, but Tails is the one shown actually maintaining and upgrading it, things Sonic doesn't seem to care about).

I just don't understand where you get the idea that Sonic is treated less respectfully than the other characters, when I seem to see the opposite most of the time (especially in the last seven or eight years).

I don't mind the idea of Sonic and Knuckles teaming up, in fact, I welcome it because it'd finally mix things up. I just think this is presented to give too much importance to Sonic by having him do things out of character to show how good he is at everything. I understand you want Sonic to be respected (which was never a problem to begin with), but that shouldn't come at the expense of the other characters' development by making them dependent on him or making Sonic do things that other characters can already do. Actually, don't you think this takes away from what makes Sonic unique?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Bringing up this topic because Im playing Sonic Adventure with Knuckles!!

I still want a Sonic and Knuckles treasure hunting game. Sonic doesnt need a tracker and he doesnt need Tails to help him. In fact I dont want him in this game. I wanted this to be Sonic and Knuckles together solving mysteries and also find the emerald peices together like friends. I want that kind of game