Sega of America's chief operating officer says 'words'

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

More like they might want to make good games but they just don't have the skill, understanding of the things they work on, or the resources to do so.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Short-Sleeved Nook]

Sonic games "appealing to as many people as possible"? (Remember how heavily focus-tested Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric was to appeal to non-Sonic fans? "We don't want speed")

"Bringing Sonic to modern-day gamers"? (Remember how Sonic 2006's was supposed to be a "re-imagining" of the series for the seventh generation?)

And a direction that "might lose some fans along the road"? (Which given how divided the series has historically become...speaks for itself in a lot of ways?)

And to think, all this...will be most likely established by whatever the upcoming 25th anniversary game from Sonic Team will turn out to be...

Everything about this new PR statement sounds absolutely awful to me. Couple that with the repeated "we'll improve on quality" mantra that has been uttered for years on end for Sonic titles; and I'm just really starting to think the Sega PR should just shut their traps until it's time to reveal the next main Sonic game.

The "cool, appealing to new audiences" thing is what Sonic Team has been doing ever since Sonic Adventure. If they weren't trying to draw more people into the games, we'd only have classic-styled Sonic games, and many of us wouldn't be here right now. Every single brand ever needs to appeal to new audiences or else they'll never have an audience. So, nothing is really new there... The main problem isn't necessarily in that their ideas to revamp Sonic are bad, but that the games usually lack the necessary polish it need to be enjoyable...

And I think it's pretty unfair to criticize Sonic Boom: a game that wasn't fully completed and wasn't even being developed by the core Sonic Team. People need to stop treating Sonic Boom like it's supposed to be the classic Sonic they know and love.

All that matters now is if they can deliver on the "higher quality gameplay" that they've been "promising". If so, we could be in for some great games! However, Sonic Lost World was well polished, and the main problems with that game are in design, so hopefully Sonic Team can step it up...that game just takes the core of what makes platformers good and does the opposite.

Does it? It's not like they'd ever come out and say "We don't really give a shit about the quality of our games" even if they believed it.

And whether they want to make good games and whether they can make good games are two different things anyway.

I think the main point here is that SEGA has never really commented on the quality of Sonic games for the longest time...at least, as far as I can recall, I could be wrong. I don't remember SEGA, let alone its three main branches, ever making comments like that in the past.

[Dejimon11]

Hmmm ok first of let me just say the title to that polygon article is stupid. Now with this recent PR talk I really don't know how to feel. On one hand if you look at the this, what the new CEO and that other article that was at the other thread it looks like they actually do want to improve and mean it this time. However considering we've done this dance several times before I'm finding it hard to believe what any PR says at this point. They can make statements and make memes but at the end of the day those are just words, I want to see results.

[McGroose]

To much talk, not enough game. I really couldn't give two shits about whatever The things these Sega bigwigs say really doesn't increase my hopes for the quality of the next game. 

I also love the top comment in the article. Is this guy serious?

"Take Generations, and make Generations 2 with 200 stages each. And everyone is happy."

 

 

Edited October 31, 2015 by McGroose

[azoo]

Am I the only one that didn't look at that "we'll lose some fans" thing as a completely ill omen?

It could be interpreted many ways, considering the paths there are to take. On one hand, it could drive away people who were fans of Sonic in the Adventure era, or fans of him in the mid 2000s era, or in the modern era, or even the classic era (which considering the internationally unanimous statement about trying to aim towards the audience that was with those games) I don't know if that's what they'd scare away, but who knows.

It could mean anything, considering how many paths taken in this franchise. And let's be honest, making something more streamlined and catering to less people is a good thing. Don't automatically assume the worst.... okay do automatically assume the worst (this is Sonic after all) but please realize there's a possible good turn this could take.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Azoo

[Diogenes]

Yeah I think stabilizing the series is going to necessitate doing things that'll drive some people off, because it can't reasonably support all the different iterations of itself and the fans that have latched onto them. Sonic can't be both '06 and Colors, and even if they try to compromise not everyone is going to be happy with that.

[shdowhunt60]

By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.

[azoo]

By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.

And not only is this doom-and-glooming for reasons not elaborated upon, but also one-liner posting. Let's not do this. :v

[shdowhunt60]

And not only is this doom-and-glo0ming for reasons not elaborated upon, but also one-liner posting. Let's not do this. :v

Why do I need to? SoA was pretty explicit here, their focus is on Genesis fans, and where they're going for the series may "lose some fans". Remind me, where exactly was Modern Sonic in the  licensing expo? I don't recall anything Modern Sonic there, it was either Classic or Boom. And that's looking increasingly like SEGA's direction going for Sonic in the future.

[Agie]

Well, we knew that they thought certain fans "don't matter." I'm just shocked that they had the balls to admit it.

[azoo]

Why do I need to? SoA was pretty explicit here, their focus is on Genesis fans, and where they're going for the series may "lose some fans". Remind me, where exactly was Modern Sonic in the  licensing expo? I don't recall anything Modern Sonic there, it was either Classic or Boom. And that's looking increasingly like SEGA's direction going for Sonic in the future.

Classic Sonic merchandise has always been a huge thing, and modern Sonic merchandise is almost never a thing except for small children wear, some F4F statues, and Japanese exclusive stuff. A similar example is how most Mario merch for adults is gonna be retro-based and feature old artwork while you see little kids with the shirts featuring new renders and whatnot. Same schpiel; old Sonic stuff is gonna be on merch, always has and always will as long as there's the market for it.

Nearly 100% sure modern Sonic design stuff isn't going anywhere. Sega even just released a new render of modern Sonic tod--well yesterday actually:

If modern Sonic was going to be axed, why would they update us with a new render? They didn't have to; I mean it could've been Boom Sonic who repped for Halloween. And let's not even mention Runners, which exists (surprisingly; I often forget it does myself).

Now if you're looking for a game that is something like the mid 2000s Sonic experiences then yeah, you're probably gonna have a bad time. But I wouldn't count all your chickens before the eggs hatch, ya know. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Azoo

[shdowhunt60]

Sorry, I'm just finding it increasingly hard not to think that way. I really am. It's always about the Genesis games, going back to Sonic's beginnings, bringing back the Sonic's spirit, and it's like... You know what? I didn't grow up with a Genesis. Hell, I never HAD a Genesis. I don't have any sort of attachment to Classic Sonic, and the only Classic game I really play is Sonic 3&K. Hell, my first console was a Dreamcast. All of my best Sonic experiences and memories were with the Adventure games. And it kind of hurts that SEGA's just going to continue acting like that never happened.

Edited October 31, 2015 by shdowhunt60

[azoo]

Sorry, I'm just finding it increasingly hard not to think that way. I really am. It's always about the Genesis games, going back to Sonic's beginnings, bringing back the Sonic's spirit, and it's like... You know what? I didn't grow up with a Genesis. Hell, I never HAD a Genesis. I don't have any sort of attachment to Classic Sonic, and the only Classic game I really play is Sonic 3&K. Hell, my first console was a Dreamcast.

I honestly grew up attached to the classics and Adventure nearly simultaneously, so I have a hard time seeing how big the disconnect is between them sometimes, but.. considering that the Adventures get good reception and fans love em I don't think they're out of the picture entirely either.

Best case scenario, they actually look at the reasons Sonic was successful from his multiple eras and make a middle ground. Worst case, they go full on classic and nostalgia milk everything from Sonic 1 & 2 again. Believe me, I don't want it either. (Some might, though).

I doubt they're going to go all the way on one of the previously established paths. If there's anything we should know from Sonic Team, it's that they're gonna make a new one instead. Let's just hope for the best in it, but expect the worst. You know, as usual.

[Wraith]

Sorry, I'm just finding it increasingly hard not to think that way. I really am. It's always about the Genesis games, going back to Sonic's beginnings, bringing back the Sonic's spirit, and it's like... You know what? I didn't grow up with a Genesis. Hell, I never HAD a Genesis. I don't have any sort of attachment to Classic Sonic, and the only Classic game I really play is Sonic 3&K. Hell, my first console was a Dreamcast. All of my best Sonic experiences and memories were with the Adventure games. And it kind of hurts that SEGA's just going to continue acting like that never happened.

Well, when the overwhelming majority of people gravitate toward Classic Sonic, what can they really do? Not take advantage of their popularity? It'd be foolish of them not to. 

I'd like them to actually realize why and how these games are good instead of just taking the surface level qualities and using them for marketing, but still.

[azoo]

 

I'd like them to actually realize why and how these games are good instead of just taking the surface level qualities and using them for marketing, but still.

I'm gonna be praying for the next few months that they actually do that shit this time.

Satomi (the guy that helped Taxman and Stealth's Sonic 1 & 2 remasters be a thing) is CEO of SoJ now, and enforced a new order of quality control. SoE confirmed this and mentioned taking more time on the games, and explicitly pointed at looking into how the old games played and working off of that. SoA mentioned that Sonic Team is going to cater to the core audience better and spend longer dev times making better games.

Everything is pointing more up than usual and if we end up with the same old "extreme incompetence / misunderstanding" situation we always end up in, then I'm as good as gone. :v

Edited October 31, 2015 by Azoo

[FriendBot]

Why do I need to? SoA was pretty explicit here, their focus is on Genesis fans, and where they're going for the series may "lose some fans". Remind me, where exactly was Modern Sonic in the  licensing expo? I don't recall anything Modern Sonic there, it was either Classic or Boom. And that's looking increasingly like SEGA's direction going for Sonic in the future.

Or maybe, when we look at it like rational people and try not to make a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe it's because Sega doesn't need to advertise Modern since Sonic Team are working on a Modern Sonic game. Boom needs advertising since the show is a success and a second season is on the way so yeah no shit, they're gonna show off some Boom. Classic.... well it's Classic Sonic and since it's the 25th Anniversary so calling back to the retro days is a good idea. And please let's not start the "Oh remember the times we didn't suck" cause Classic Sonic has his fair share of lame games too (Blast, Labyrinth, R and etc.).

And as Azoo the Burgerpants said they haven't forgotten Modern Sonic, it's just that they'll probably show off the much needed Modern Sonic love when the next game is announced. But I guess, the ever-growing paranoia of some people are getting a bit too antsy about it, yeah I get it, will they still do the comedy Sonic or bring back action hero Sonic.

Frankly, I like both but for the main series, yeah action hero Sonic needs to be back to contrast over Boom atleast.

I'd say keep calm and play Undertale to pass time.

[Wraith]

I'm gonna be praying for the next few months that they actually do that shit this time.

Satomi (the guy that helped Taxman and Stealth's Sonic 1 & 2 remasters be a thing) is CEO of SoJ now, and enforced a new order of quality control. SoE confirmed this and mentioned taking more time on the games, and explicitly pointed at looking into how the old games played and working off of that. SoA mentioned that Sonic Team is going to cater to the core audience better and spend longer dev times making better games.

If we end up with the same old extreme misunderstanding situation we always end up in this time then I'm as good as gone. :v

Didn't know about all of this happening. It's actually pretty reassuring. Maybe the Sonic game I actually want will come along sooner than I thought.

[FriendBot]

Didn't know about all of this happening. It's actually pretty reassuring. Maybe the Sonic game I actually want will come along sooner than I thought.

Not sure if this helps either but the interview with Matt Kraemer (Sanzaru's Lead designers) said they looked at some of the level layouts of the classic games and seeing how this levels work. And implementing that knowledge into Fire & Ice, not sure if it's exactly what he said but around those words is what I can recall. So not sure if this could be beneficial to them but then again making a water level where if you're skilled enough, you can avoid the water segments altogether. It sounds like a good idea to get some level design inspiration, to me atleast.  

[TheOcelot]

Less talk more action please SEGA! There's a world of difference between talking good and doing good.

As for....

"When we look at bringing Sonic to modern-day gamers, we ... obviously want to appeal to as many people as possible but still focus on what it means to be Sonic and a Sonic game," he explained.

"Maybe that might lose some fans along the road, but we're picking up new fans that will hopefully grow with us as Sonic grows."

More mobile games on the way then, SEGA? 

[Regen]

I wouldn't just assume that they are going for the Classic audience with the next release. They haven't made a Mainline Console Classic Sonic game since 1994. They are probably just trying to aim for a new generation of fans, kind of what they tried to do with Sonic Boom. When they say 'we are probably going to lose fans' they probably mean the older audience (ie us). 

[pppp]

Sorry, I'm just finding it increasingly hard not to think that way. I really am. It's always about the Genesis games, going back to Sonic's beginnings, bringing back the Sonic's spirit, and it's like... You know what? I didn't grow up with a Genesis. Hell, I never HAD a Genesis. I don't have any sort of attachment to Classic Sonic, and the only Classic game I really play is Sonic 3&K. Hell, my first console was a Dreamcast. All of my best Sonic experiences and memories were with the Adventure games. And it kind of hurts that SEGA's just going to continue acting like that never happened.

That doesn't change the fact that S3K is still the best game in the franchise. What if Mario games now all had FLUDD just cause quite a few number of people grew up with Sunshine?(I'm not saying Sunshine's bad, it's pretty good, but it's not the ideal direction for Mario)   If SEGA went back to genre roulette and monster of the week plots, the series will continue being the critics favorite target, as well as drive away mainstream gaming crowd. The Adventure fans are not enough to keep this series going, if they just appeal to them the series will die cause of lack of sales/good rep.

Don't get me wrong, if they continue to go full Genesis nostalgia, it will die too, but again it goes back to my current stand on the situation: SEGA dug themselves into a hole they can never truly get out of. Their inability to keep the series consistent killed it, and it's only possible to please 1/5 of people that like Sonic, it's definitely impossible to please at least 3/5.

Personally I think they should try to capture the level design philosophy of the classics like they did with Modern Gens while trying to tell a story akin to the Satam stuff, since I still think having realistic humans in Sonic doesn't mesh. This is the most widely appealing idea I have for a direction the series can take, since I believe satisfies most of the requirements, better story/world building, consistent and good gameplay, and both the story and gameplay directions are something that mainstream gaming people liked(Doug Walker grew up with Nintendo and yet he still loves Satam). And yet I'm sure a huge number of people here on SSMB disagree with my idea of where they should take the series, proving my point: The series is doomed to never satisfy most audiences. I would love to be proven wrong by SEGA as they say in these articles, but I just don't think it's gonna happen.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Nate Adams

[Bowbowis]

I wouldn't just assume that they are going for the Classic audience with the next release. They haven't made a Mainline Console Classic Sonic game since 1994. They are probably just trying to aim for a new generation of fans, kind of what they tried to do with Sonic Boom. When they say 'we are probably going to lose fans' they probably mean the older audience (ie us). 

If I had to guess I'd say that SEGA runs the greatest risk of losing Modern (2010-present) fans for a whole host of reasons. Chief among them being that any shift from the current status quo is, by definition, a shift away from the Modern fan's preferred style. As for the other sectors of the fanbase: SEGA has said that they're still targeting Classic fans, Adventure fans are already on the outs so any shift from the current norm has a good chance of being considered an improvement (not to mention that any Adventure fans who haven't already jumped ship by now are probably just too stubborn to ever do so), and in both cases the bulk of the Classic and Adventure fans have been around longer than the folks who came into the series post Colors meaning that they likely have a stronger attachment to the series and are less likely to bail when things get rough.

Those are my thoughts at any rate.

[Briraka]

If by saying that they're going to lose fans means they're sticking to a direction, then I'm glad... although, this seems contradictory to their previous statement where they said that they're trying to appeal to classic fans.

[NoirSuede]

If by saying that they're going to lose fans means they're sticking to a direction, then I'm glad... although, this seems contradictory to their previous statement where they said that they're trying to appeal to classic fans.

Not it's not, basically what they're saying is that by sticking to appealing to classic fans they're gonna lose fans from the other branches (Adventure/Boost).

[Milo]

The "cool, appealing to new audiences" thing is what Sonic Team has been doing ever since Sonic Adventure. If they weren't trying to draw more people into the games, we'd only have classic-styled Sonic games, and many of us wouldn't be here right now. Every single brand ever needs to appeal to new audiences or else they'll never have an audience. So, nothing is really new there... The main problem isn't necessarily in that their ideas to revamp Sonic are bad, but that the games usually lack the necessary polish it need to be enjoyable...

And I think it's pretty unfair to criticize Sonic Boom: a game that wasn't fully completed and wasn't even being developed by the core Sonic Team. People need to stop treating Sonic Boom like it's supposed to be the classic Sonic they know and love.

All that matters now is if they can deliver on the "higher quality gameplay" that they've been "promising". If so, we could be in for some great games! However, Sonic Lost World was well polished, and the main problems with that game are in design, so hopefully Sonic Team can step it up...that game just takes the core of what makes platformers good and does the opposite.

I think the main point here is that SEGA has never really commented on the quality of Sonic games for the longest time...at least, as far as I can recall, I could be wrong. I don't remember SEGA, let alone its three main branches, ever making comments like that in the past.

Because I've engaged in these arguments before and I'm not really interested in going into a rant that retreads the same grounds of previous replies, I'm just going to keep my responses brief to address what I feel here are some absolutely bogus points.

A brand does not need to appeal to new audiences in order to maintain an audience, history of other series actually dictates that doing so usually results in newer entries performing worse critically and financially, sometimes to the point of killing the brand outright.

A lack of polish isn't the only thing (or the main problem in some cases) that Sonic games suffer from. And the ideas Sega has used to revamp Sonic usually have turn out bad, if not necessarily in concept then definitely in execution.

The Sonic Boom games (or in this case Rise of Lyric) not being part of the main series or not being "finished" is not a good argument or a legitimate excuse for the games' awful quality. And the problems those games have go far beyond not being similar to the main series games, a statement I'm confident has been clarified by a lot of people by this point but for some strange annoying reason is still ignored by people who speak in the games' defense.

Sonic Team delivering good games is far from the only thing that matters in the relations of Sonic, given the state of the series and what recently happened shortly after the series struck on a couple of good games.

I think the main point here is that SEGA has never really commented on the quality of Sonic games for the longest time...at least, as far as I can recall, I could be wrong. I don't remember SEGA, let alone its three main branches, ever making comments like that in the past.

Sega's PR is notorious for claiming that they will be taking Sonic "back to his roots" in the previous games (going back as far as Sonic 2006 and most infamously used during the Sonic 4 saga) and then not delivering on their promises / meeting expectations, which is why many people are so skeptical of this new slew of comments from Sega's branches in the first place.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Gabe