Sega of America's chief operating officer says 'words'

[SuperAj3]

Actually, I agree. Don't get me wrong, The classic games were some of the best videogames ever made, and they were my introduction to the franchise, but I really like what Sonic Team did with the Adventure series. I think I'm in the minority, as someone who got into Sonic during the classic era, but prefers the Adventure Era designs and atmosphere.

I started with the Mega Drive games and prefer the adventure style as well. They were the games I still remember fondly.

[FantasticMrRobb]

Maybe we could expect future games to be more like Classic Sonic in Generations and the Sonic 4 games? Or could it be maybe that they'll quit trying to give Sonic different abilities and just let him run and spin dash again? The possibilities are never ending here.

[blooob]

Ha. How disgusting Sega. So. Have you even fullfilled your promise "At once"?... oh please, Sega, Sonic series has overflowing impurity. please realize it. -Summary of comments that located in original source--(And I totally agree about them.)

[Regen]

I think it's pretty funny that so many people here seem to be big fans of Adventure, going as far as being to be anxious of the success of a 2D Sonic game because the Adventure formula might be lost forever for it, but when I make a joke about Sonic Adventure 3 then I get shut down immediately as though I'm an idiot. Like, what?!

I'll go as far as to say Sonic Adventure 3 isn't even a stupid idea. It makes sense from a business sense, people would buy the fuck out of it and you all know it. Sonic Adventure 2 in particular is popular with two generations of gamers because of when it released. Critics would be sceptical, but they already are sceptical of a new Sonic title. They would treat it fairly if it was good.

Sonic Adventure 3 has become such a lost title people just laugh when it's brought up without thinking. If Sonic 4 can happen and sell as well as it did then you can bet Sonic Adventure 3 certainly can.

And I don't even like the Adventure games, I want a 2D Classic game, but I wouldn't be against Sonic Adventure 3. In fact, I welcome Sonic Adventure 3.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Regen

[blooob]

I think it's pretty funny that so many people here seem to be big fans of Adventure, going as far as being to be anxious of the success of a 2D Sonic game because the Adventure formula might be lost forever for it, but when I make a joke about Sonic Adventure 3 then I get shut down immediately as though I'm an idiot. Like, what?!

I'll go as far as to say Sonic Adventure 3 isn't even a stupid idea. It makes sense from a business sense, people would buy the fuck out of it and you all know it. Sonic Adventure 2 in particular is popular with two generations of gamers because of when it released. Critics would be sceptical, but they already are sceptical of a new Sonic title. They would treat it fairly if it was good.

Sonic Adventure 3 has become such a lost title people just laugh when it's brought up without thinking. If Sonic 4 can happen and sell as well as it did then you can bet Sonic Adventure 3 certainly can.

And I don't even like the Adventure games, I want a 2D Classic game, but I wouldn't be against Sonic Adventure 3. In fact, I welcome Sonic Adventure 3.

I agree, SA3 title would be good for business too, however, as you said, It would be treated fairly if it were good. Do you think they are good to make games? Since I don't think so, I won't welcome SA3. To be honest, I don't want deterioration of Sonic series' reputation as Sega make horrible trash like Sonic boom series.

[Regen]

Yeah, the main concern would be if they fucked up Sonic Adventure 3 like Sonic 4. But, I mean, we are talking hypothetically if it were to be a good game.

[ZDozer]

The guys are releasing some words about quality... Man, SEGA's bullshitting some bad shit.

I got a BAD feeling about the next Sonic game.

[FriendBot]

The guys are releasing some words about quality... Man, SEGA's bullshitting some bad shit.

I got a BAD feeling about the next Sonic game.

What makes me you think that? Or is it just baseless paranoia?

[ZDozer]

Baseless paranoia?

How many times SEGA has said they would do a better Sonic game and then came up with something no short of being messed garbage? That shit has gone on for years now and only Generations managed to (even if partially) avoid it.

[FriendBot]

Baseless paranoia?

How many times SEGA has said they would do a better Sonic game and then came up with something no short of being messed garbage? That shit has gone on for years now and only Generations managed to (even if partially) avoid it.

For every Sonic 06, there's a Sonic Unleashed. I'm pretty sure the next main series game is going to be fine. Just take a nice cup of tea and listen to some Undertale music, keeps me chill all the time.

[Regen]

For every Sonic 06, there's a Sonic Unleashed.

Some of us wouldn't consider that a good thing you know  

That said, most people don't doubt Colours and Generations were good games. As for Lost World, it wasn't bad, it was just very flawed. In my opinion anyway, it's very divisive. I'd still say Lost World was decent, it's a 6/10. I think Sonic Team's going to do well with their next title to be honest.

It's not to be assumed though.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Regen

[FriendBot]

Some of us wouldn't consider that a good thing you know  

That said, most people don't doubt Colours and Generations were good games. As for Lost World, it wasn't bad, it was just very flawed. In my opinion anyway, it's very divisive. I'd still say Lost World was decent, it's a 6/10. I think Sonic Team's going to do well with their next title to be honest.

It's not to be assumed though.

True enough on the Unleashed thing, I'm not gonna quickly assume the worst because of the some PR talk. I'll see it when I see it, if it's great awesome! If it's not, then I'll focus on what it does right and make sure those positives gets mentioned.

I was always the half full kind of guy anyway.

[Short-Sleeved Nook]

A brand does not need to appeal to new audiences in order to maintain an audience, history of other series actually dictates that doing so usually results in newer entries performing worse critically and financially, sometimes to the point of killing the brand outright.

You make a lot of great points here! I'm not trying to sound like I know better or anything like that, but I feel like a few of your points are still a little off tho. (Not trying to say mine weren't off to begin with. Maybe this is just my way of elaborating on what I was trying to say, lol!)

My argument about the things SEGA has done to revamp the brand are mostly based on my experiences with SA2. I use this as an example. I had a lot of friends who were into that game (GameCube version of course!) for gameplay other than Sonic/Shadow's (treasure hunting, 2P battles, chao garden, etc: those are the main ones I remember my friends really enjoying). Fans would rather Sonic be without those elements, and yet it was those very elements that drew people into the game. And if it weren't for the awesome social experiences I had playing that game (along with other aspects of the franchise that were active at the time, such as the anime and the comic book), I can't guarantee that I would still be here as a Sonic fan to this day.

A lack of polish isn't the only thing (or the main problem in some cases) that Sonic games suffer from. And the ideas Sega has used to revamp Sonic usually have turn out bad, if not necessarily in concept then definitely in execution.

At the same time, I know a lot of people that quit playing Sonic because the quality of the games just got ridiculously bad (Sonic 06). I personally believe that quality is what makes Sonic games suffer, not necessarily the ideas. I hope I'm not getting you wrong, but an example of your argument would be something along these lines: "the problem with *i.e. Sonic Unleashed* is that SEGA tried too hard to revamp the brand by introducing a new idea (in this case, the Werehog) instead of just appealing to the base audience and sticking with what the series does best". Now, ignoring the bias of fan-expectations (referring to when a Sonic fan has a different idea of what Sonic "should be", and imposes that opinion on his/her critique of any of Sonic's games), I find that the problem with Unleashed isn't in the IDEA of the Werehog, but in the lack of polish they put into the actual Werehog gameplay (I'm speaking for the HD version, which I've played recently. It's been a LONG time since I touched the Wii/PS2 one )

And not only that, but from a developer's standpoint, they want to be able to surprise and delight fans with interesting new twists on the characters, stories, and gameplay they know and love. A recent example of this was in an interview with Mr. Aonuma (Director of Zelda series), in which he states, "I always want to implement something new and surprising into every game". Lost World is another example of this in Sonic: if you go back and read interviews with Iizuka, he says that after Generations, they just wanted to do something new and different.

The Sonic Boom games (or in this case Rise of Lyric) not being part of the main series or not being "finished" is not a good argument or a legitimate excuse for the games' awful quality. And the problems those games have go far beyond not being similar to the main series games, a statement I'm confident has been clarified by a lot of people by this point but for some strange annoying reason is still ignored by people who speak in the games' defense.

You're right! Boom not being part of the main series isn't an excuse for how awful Rise of Lyric is. I'm not talking about RoL though, I'm talking about the brand in general. Whether it be the cartoon or the old and new 3DS games, people give Boom a lot of hate simply because SEGA of America and SEGA of Europe want to branch off from the traditional style of the games, appeal to new audiences, and do something new with the brand while SEGA of Japan takes years of develop and publish consecutive game releases because they aren't putting any money into spinoffs (that's what Boom is: because Sonic isn't popular in Japan, so they might as well let SoA/SoE tackle the extra stuff for fans in America). In the last few years, SoJ has put a huge focus on making their Sonic releases in-touch with the expectations of fans (and by that I mean they've got a classic-Sonic style to them in many different aspects of design). SoA/SoE could be doing the same, putting their efforts into having Western developers like Sumo Digital create great spinoffs that the fanbase would love, but instead they're using their time and resources to widen Sonic's appeal through the Boom brand, and it's working! I see nothing wrong with Boom or the approach that SoA/SoE have taken with that brand (again, any dislike I have towards the Boom franchise has to do with the lack of polish/quality of the games and other content, which are seen not only in RoL, but a little bit in Sonic Dash 2, which many of us are talking about in another thread. Shattered Crystal is another debate for another time ). If you think differently about Sonic Boom, again, this isn't the place for us to debate that.

This is why I believe that quality is the main thing that the Sonic franchise needs going forward (bearing in mind the exception I made earlier about Lost World!). In the past, ideas were always solid, but the games were always held back by bugs, glitches, and other problems that kept their new ideas from being enjoyable. Again, this is said from a perspective that leaves out the bias of fan expectations. If you believe that, for example, the Werehog sucks because it's not what you think Sonic "has to be" in order to be good, then let's just stop this here.

Well...there goes my evening, lol! We can still be bros even if we don't agree with each other, but it's more fun if we can come to agreement 

[Aquaslash]

"Maybe that might lose some fans along the road, but we're picking up new fans that will hopefully grow with us as Sonic grows."

Oh hell. Trainwreck incoming. Those are the words of a company whose about to make some godawful forced attempt to be relevant to the current age, and blatantly disregard any and all past nuances/traditions/etc to do so

 

Basically the same crap that got us Shadow the Hedgehog

[Bolt]

Basically the same crap that got us Shadow the Hedgehog

I still love that game. :<

[blooob]

Oh hell. Trainwreck incoming. Those are the words of a company whose about to make some godawful forced attempt to be relevant to the current age, and blatantly disregard any and all past nuances/traditions/etc to do so

 

Basically the same crap that got us Shadow the Hedgehog

Totally agree. I think Sonic is bound to die within 1~2 years if sega have this mind (of course Sonic is now zombie)

[Dizcrybe]

Y'all are reading way too much into that "we might lose some fans" thing.

[blooob]

Y'all are reading way too much into that "we might lose some fans" thing.

Because, Inflow of Sonic fans is far less than outflow of Sonic fans now.

Most Sonic fans are leaving because of horrble games and others. and Sonic Boom accelerate this. In contrast, I'm sure that few fans inflowed during 2013~2015. Because Sonic series has nothing to attract people on 2013~2015, In this situation. suppose that they made a game or something(which has a possibility to lose a lot of fans (like Sonic Boom) We already know that Sonic Boom is failed. And most people were done with Sonic. If they made another Sonic games which is not attractive to anyone (even Sonic fans either), Then, Sonic will be completely torn to pieces.(Sorry if this expression is drastic...)

[Myst]

To say Sonic Boom failed is inaccurate. Rise of Lyric was a failure, but the cartoon and toys are doing well.

[Bolt]

To say Sonic Boom failed is inaccurate. Rise of Lyric was a failure, but the cartoon and toys are doing well.

They'd do better if they were sold in stores that weren't just Toys R Us imo.

-hides her pile of Sonic Boom toys- >3>

[Dizcrybe]

Because, Inflow of Sonic fans is far less than outflow of Sonic fans now.

Most Sonic fans are leaving because of horrble games and others. and Sonic Boom accelerate this. In contrast, I'm sure that few fans inflowed during 2013~2015. Because Sonic series has nothing to attract people on 2013~2015, In this situation. suppose that they made a game or something(which has a possibility to lose a lot of fans (like Sonic Boom) We already know that Sonic Boom is failed. And most people were done with Sonic. If they made another Sonic games which is not attractive to anyone (even Sonic fans either), Then, Sonic will be completely torn to pieces.(Sorry if this expression is drastic...)

All that means is they're gonna keep doing what they're doing with no clue as to why they're losing fans.

[Badnik Mechanic]

when I make a joke about Sonic Adventure 3 then I get shut down immediately as though I'm an idiot. Like, what?!

I'll go as far as to say Sonic Adventure 3 isn't even a stupid idea.

Yes it is because we've already had it, it's called Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and it was shit. SA 2 built upon the formula set down by SA1, Shadows game built on the SA 2 formula and Sonic 06 builds upon that. It is your Sonic Adventure Sequel. That is your SA3. 

But no, some people don't accept that and the reasons continue to be pathetic and laughable with every incarnation of a meme post that gets slapped onto Facebook support hotlines and other pro SA3 topics. 

Here's my top 2 favourite defences of the SA3 argument.

But it doesn't have a chao garden? GOOD! Chao are only in there because they're tied to the virtual pet craze which has been dead for well over 10 years, why do you think no other Sonic game has had any kind of pet raising in it? Because there is no mass market appeal anymore, the virtual pet craze is dead. So are the gardens.

"Sonic 06 was buggy! That isn't the adventure formula," Oh shut the fuck up. Using a formula for a game is not the same as saying you want a bug free experience, Sonic 06 uses the adventure formula, the level design is shit and the game underwent no efforts to fix bugs, but it still uses the formula, it just builds more on it. 

I could draw a diagram to illustrate this and it would look similar to diagrams from computer architecture. Imagine a circle on a piece of paper, that represents SA1, now draw another circle around that. That's SA2, now draw another and another and another... fill in the titles of games which use the original formula, but build on it in some way. 

You can stop doing this once the boost enters the scene.

The only reason people want a game with the words Sonic Adventure 3 in it is because they're looking for a name and are too naive to realise the following.

1: It's already been out under a new title.

2: That naming something means bugger all if the final product is naff.

3: Virtually every Sonic game since Heroes has at one point had the code name 'Sonic Adventure' 2 of which actually were codenamed SA3. 

[blooob]

To say Sonic Boom failed is inaccurate. Rise of Lyric was a failure, but the cartoon and toys are doing well.

Cartoon is just mediocre to decent (although I like this show.. It's true that Cartoon isn't really good like Spongebob(Season 1~3) plus, Ratings is slashed over 40.0% since they aired Sonic boom first. Furthermore, even if cartoon and toys are decent, Does this recover the loss which is caused by 2 Games which is assumed $20M development cost? and P.S. Any evidence that toys are selling wel?

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

 

 

Cartoon is just mediocre to decent (although I like this show.. It's true that Cartoon isn't really good like Spongebob(Season 1~3) plus, Ratings is slashed over 40.0% since they aired Sonic boom first. Furthermore, even if cartoon and toys are decent, Does this recover the loss which is caused by 2 Games which is assumed $20M development cost? and P.S. Any evidence that toys are selling wel?

Where to start....

Ratings is slashed over 40.0% since they aired Sonic boom first.

Yeah and? Most shows do this, what's your point? 

Furthermore, even if cartoon and toys are decent, Does this recover the loss which is caused by 2 Games which is assumed $20M development cost?

How many different territories have bought the rights to air Boom? The answer is... quite a lot. How many of those are exclusive rights to that region, I think that Canada and France are the only ones which show it on two networks... so exclusive rights for all the other territories... that's a lot of money right there. Odds are Boom has made more than the game development cost from foreign licenses alone.

Any evidence that toys are selling wel?

Yeah, Tomy have expanded the range recently, Entertainer in the UK recently restocked and now have huge window displays as well as a dedicated space on their site for it.

 

Like it or not. Boom has been a success, despite the terrible game.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Hogfather

[Regen]

Yes it is because we've already had it, it's called Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and it was shit. SA 2 built upon the formula set down by SA1, Shadows game built on the SA 2 formula and Sonic 06 builds upon that. It is your Sonic Adventure Sequel. That is your SA3. 

But no, some people don't accept that and the reasons continue to be pathetic and laughable with every incarnation of a meme post that gets slapped onto Facebook support hotlines and other pro SA3 topics. 

This is a totally unfair argument and I say that as someone who doesn't even particularly care about Sonic Adventure. I'm at where the 2D Stuff is at, I'm not particularly bothered by Adventure, but Adventure 3 would be a good move for everyone because it's a massive fan demand except it would make critics get sceptical. But this is another issue, let's get on topic.

First of all, Sonic 2006 isn't Sonic Adventure 3 in the same way Sonic 4 isn't the true Sonic 4. Sonic 2006 clearly wants to be the spiritual Sonic Adventure 3 in the same way Sonic 4 does to the Classics, but it sucks, and it has nothing to do with plot of either Sonic Adventure. Sonic Adventure 2 was pretty unrelated to Sonic Adventure 1, but it did have some links. Sonic 2006 intentionally strayed away from linking itself with anything in particular. Saying that the Adventure fans have had Sonic Adventure 3 because of Sonic 2006 and then finishing your point on the realms of 'you got it and it was shit, tough' is a baiting and unfair argument. 

But here, you anticipate this argument.

"Sonic 06 was buggy! That isn't the adventure formula," Oh shut the fuck up. Using a formula for a game is not the same as saying you want a bug free experience, Sonic 06 uses the adventure formula, the level design is shit and the game underwent no efforts to fix bugs, but it still uses the formula, it just builds more on it. 

I could draw a diagram to illustrate this and it would look similar to diagrams from computer architecture. Imagine a circle on a piece of paper, that represents SA1, now draw another circle around that. That's SA2, now draw another and another and another... fill in the titles of games which use the original formula, but build on it in some way. 

Nice strawman with the bugs because Sonic Adventure has tons of bugs  

People want a good new Sonic Adventure title, that's what they really mean when they refer to Sonic Adventure 3. They don't necessarily want the literal Sonic Adventure 3. Sonic Adventure 3 is just a word people give to the successor of the Sonic Adventure title they want because it's a recognisable buzzword that gets people talking. It's easier than saying "I want a Sonic game that focuses on the Sonic gameplay in Sonic Adventure 1 but with better camera and less glitches". And by the way, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog play very differently to the Adventure titles, the only true comparison title is Sonic 06, and Sonic 06 was a bastardisation of the formula. 

It's like the way people ignore terrible titles in a franchise. People ignore Devil May Cry 2 and Deus Ex Invisible War and refuse to accept those as the true sequels. They still undeniably were made with the same formula though. But since people refused to accept them we've gotten much better titles for those franchises now. Imagine if someone turned around and just said:

"Haha, you want a new DMC and Deus Ex game, well tough fucking luck because those games got sequels and they were both shit". 

We never would have gotten Devil May Cry 3 or Deus Ex Human Revolution. Just because the formula can make a terrible game doesn't mean that formula should be outright dismissed out of hand. It's a pathetic shut down technique which I find even more baffling considering everyone hero-worships Sonic Adventure here and your point here has gone unchallenged. If you hate the Adventure titles, fair enough. But everyone else not speaking or voting you up is very strange.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Regen