is shadow the hedgehog so bad?

[Leon K Fox]

I found a video review on YouTube done by a user named "Darknessthecurse" that sums up my thoughts on this game perfectly.

~Part 1~

~Part 2~

Edited July 27, 2009 by Leon K Fox

[PSI Wind]

^ Ah Darkness, Im suscribed to him, anyway, there is a difference between the GC and PS2 version, but sadly, the video that shows it is gone.

[Barry the Nomad]

PROS

"I Am All Of Me" and "Never Turn Back" were great themes

pre-rendered cut scenes were well produced

the Sonic Adventure 2.5 vibe of the plot was cool (artifical chaos, the President, Gerald Robotnik, G.U.N.)

branching good/evil plot sounded great on paper

the alien guns were fun

Circus Park and Digital Circuit were awesome levels (with a very Chaotix/Sonic CD look)

CONS

controls were awful

graphics were too dark and muddy

level music was forgettable

AI was terrible (stop shooting at me! i'm on your side!!!!)

objectives were either very simple or very long and tedious

[JezMM]

AI was terrible (stop shooting at me! i'm on your side!!!!)

This made sense. GUN soldiers only attacked you after Westopolis, once the GUN Commander had given the order to do so. They also didn't attack you on the flashback level, Lost Impact, because you were fighting the same cause.

The Black Arms however... the fact they attack you all the time makes no focking sense at all. But then Black Doom is an idiot. It especially irked me when your sidekick would berate you for killing enemies that must be killed to progress, regardless of route through the stage.

[Barry the Nomad]

It especially irked me when your sidekick would berate you for killing enemies that must be killed to progress, regardless of route through the stage.

Oh god, I hated the wagging finger of shame. I HAD to kill that GUN bot to reach the next ledge, thats why he was put there, so don't berate me for playing the game correctly. Oh, and god forbid I attack an enemy when they attack me. Ghandi would love Shadow the Hedgehog.

[Rusty Spy]

Oh god, I hated the wagging finger of shame. I HAD to kill that GUN bot to reach the next ledge, thats why he was put there, so don't berate me for playing the game correctly. Oh, and god forbid I attack an enemy when they attack me. Ghandi would love Shadow the Hedgehog.

Well at least the game gives you the freedom to shoot them in the face.

[Blue Blood]

This made sense. GUN soldiers only attacked you after Westopolis, once the GUN Commander had given the order to do so. They also didn't attack you on the flashback level, Lost Impact, because you were fighting the same cause.

It would have made much more sense if enemies attack you depending on who sided with on the previous stage.

[Daisoku]

"So, if someone like that Sonic fellow were to come, he'd have to kill all my guards first, before the door opens."

"Sooo...how do WE get in?"

"Ahh that's the ingenious part. So, if someone like that Sonic fellow were to come, he'd have to kill all my guards first-"

"YES BUT HOW DO WE GET IN!?"

"So, if someone like that Sonic fellow were to come-"

"AUURRGGHH!"

"You killed my guards! YOU TRAITOR!"

...Exactly.

[Dopply]

Haha, I have a fresh opinion. I beat it yesterday at a friend's house for kicks, just because...

The whole game was a bad idea, to put it simply. The gunplay didn't work, the level design didn't work, hell, the controls didn't work. Shadow wasn't roller skating, he was ice skating, this game is ten times more slippery than Sonic Heroes could ever help to be.

I'm one of the few that kind of enjoyed Sonic Heroes. It wasn't the best game. It was just okay, but I don't loathe it. Do I loathe Shadow the Hedgehog? Honestly, no. But I certainly don't like it, not at all, and there's nothing (besides the awesome soundtrack...well, mostly awesome, sans for the overly-distorted bullshit that loves to creep up everywhere) that's getting me to come back to play it, except maybe for the cheese factor. It's a pretty hilarious game, when not painful.

Perhaps I'm more sympathetic, because the aforementioned games were finished, and after recently (finally!) beating Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 on my own gamertag, I can greatly appreciate that. Oh God I can.

[DC111]

'Choose your own path' is meant for games like Fable, where the genre fits it and where it DOESN'T AFFECT OTHER GAMES IN THE SERIES. Shadow the Hedgehog should not have been a game about choices, story-wise. It just doesn't make sense, because the franchise has a CANON PLOT, and there is no way the game can be canon; it just has too many different endings.

As for everything else, I won't be redundant; it's all been said.

Sonic runs away from the game's villain, leaving Shadow to do all the work, something the character simply would not do. But he did, because the plot demanded that Shadow be the only one to fight the boss, even if it meant flimsily writing the other characters out with no justification whatsoever!

As far as Sonic running away... now when did he do that? He wanted to stop Black Doom, as far as I can tell. At 4:02 in this video, he says, "Big deal, we can't just stand here doing nothing." At the end of this scene, he does tell Shadow he's their only hope now... but that's true, when you think about it. How much can Sonic do to help if he's paralyzed?

Edited July 27, 2009 by DC111

[Diogenes]

'Choose your own path' is meant for games like Fable, where the genre fits it and where it DOESN'T AFFECT OTHER GAMES IN THE SERIES. Shadow the Hedgehog should not have been a game about choices, story-wise. It just doesn't make sense, because the franchise has a CANON PLOT, and there is no way the game can be canon; it just has too many different endings.

It's possible to do multiple endings and still keep a running plot. The Silent Hill games have always had multiple endings, and to my knowledge they don't tell you which is canon until later games (if they even bother).

I think it would've been interesting if they had left it up in the air for a while, actually. Maybe more than a while; write it so we don't need to know which ending is right for the next game(s) to work, take it as an opportunity to give Shadow a vacation, then give him a dramatic return. If written well (which is a pretty big "if") it could actually have saved the character, in my eyes.

As far as Sonic running away... now when did he do that? He wanted to stop Black Doom, as far as I can tell. At 4:02 in this video, he says, "Big deal, we can't just stand here doing nothing." At the end of this scene, he does tell Shadow he's their only hope now... but that's true, when you think about it. How much can Sonic do to help if he's paralyzed?

I believe they do get out of the Black Comet during the fight (somehow), so they obviously weren't paralyzed anymore. They just sort of sat around and let Shadow do all the work.

[Silencer226]

Of course they don\'t aim for your audience, you\'re not a kid. That\'s what Sonic Team is really targeting in the long run. And they\'re also the ones making more of the purchases than the fanbase altogether.

Exactly, and that's why I'm not into this series anymore and yeah I admit that was a stupid comment by me but I was in the heat of the moment.

And as for that last quote it's also true but I'm not a big fan of Sonic anymore but like I said I check out what's going on in the series, which isn't much.

[famicommander]

Click the spoiler to read the review of the game I wrote a while back.

Shadow the Hedgehog is frustrating, but I think that's mostly because the player senses what could have been a great game hidden deep within. Here is a sample:

"So we have a good story, good sound, and good level design. Where does the game go wrong? Sadly, just about everywhere else."

First of all, the soundtrack is great. It's very dark and it sets the mood very well. The voice acting during the cinematics is the best I've seen in a Sonic game. The story is also tops among Sonic games. You're an amnesia-struck Shadow the Hedgehog trying to discover the secrets of his past and stop an alien invasion all the while deciding whether you're good or evil. There are three main factions in the game (GUN, Dr Robotnik's crew, and the aliens), and Shadow can choose who he wants to help and who he wants to beat the shit out of. This leads to multiple paths through the game and indeed multiple objectives within the levels. There are many endings and many ways to play, which gives the game a great deal of replay value.

The level design is great. There are lots of objectives in each level, and you can do however many you want. Or, if you'd prefer it, you can barrel through the level smashing everything in your path at top speed. It gives the gamer a choice between objective-based platforming and high speed thrills, with combat mixed in either way. And you'll all be happy to hear that there are no hub-worlds. The game just shows you a cutscene, drops you into a level, and lets you go at your own pace. You choose how fast to go, you choose who to help, you choose who to kill, and you choose what objectives, if any, to accomplish. This is something that I'd like to see adopted in future Sonic games.

So we have a good story, good sound, and good level design. Where does the game go wrong? Sadly, just about everywhere else.

The visuals aren't great for a Gamecube/Xbox game. You can tell it was designed for the PS2 and then ported to the other systems. And even then, the PS2 produced games that look a hell of a lot better than this. The cutscenes are beautiful, but the in-game graphics are bland. The textures and models are unremarkable (though there are some nice effects). Also, the frame rate on the PS2 version suffers (though the Gamecube and Xbox versions are fine in that regard).

The control, while usually sufficient, is sometimes awful. First of all, Shadow kind of skates around rather than running. He gets going at a pretty good clip (perhaps too fast), and it can be a bother sometimes. Most notably, when you're stringing together homing attacks, you can sometimes launch yourself right off a cliff. Rounding corners and avoiding obstacles is tough at first, but you quickly adjust and it's rarely an issue after that. It's also possible to get yourself stuck in places via glitches, but you can usually wiggle your way out. Still, not good.

The gun system is one of the most overplayed issues about this game. If you hear someone telling you how awful it was, they haven't played it. The gun system is neither good nor bad; it simply is. There are a lot of different weapons to pick up, and you use them via the B button (Gamecube). While it's usually useless, sometimes you can clear a path while you're running and it's actually pretty satisfying to blow the shit out of an area before you get there. It can be hard to target a specific enemy, but if you mash the button you usually kill what you're trying to kill. But most of the fighting in the game is done via the homing attack anyway, so I view the gun system as more of an extra feature that isn't great, but can be good for a laugh now and again.

The camera is usually fine because you're mostly running down narrow paths, but if you get the damned thing confused you're in for a ride. You won't be able to center it, you won't be able to shoot properly, and you'll likely walk right off an edge and fall to your doom.

In most levels, you'll have someone following you around and telling you what to do. They're rarely, if ever helpful and their repetitive dialogue is annoying. It's sometimes Sonic, it's sometimes Knuckles, and it's sometimes a floating monitor through which Robotnik sees you. Either way, I usually just ignore them.

The worst part of this game is the cheese. You can tell they were lobbying hard for an older audience after Heroes, and they failed. They wanted an E10+ rating, so there's not a lot of violence and Shadow swears like a third-grader. Shadow says "damn" and "hell" a lot in an effort to sound cool, but it really just makes him sound like a douche. This only happens during levels, as the cinematic dialogue is usually very good. The whole attitude thing just didn't click. That's also clearly why there are guns in the game. It just doesn't serve any purpose.

So, that's Shadow the Hedgehog. I picked my copy up for five dollars on the Gamecube, and at that price I can highly recommend it. The game overall is barely above average, but there are some great elements in there. They're just hidden behind cheese and glitches. With some more development time, better graphics, a better camera, and tighter controls this could have been a very, very good game. The branching story is very interesting and it makes for a lot of extended play time. The level design and the freedom you have because of it is some of the best I've seen in a 3D Sonic game. Giving the user the choice of how to progress through the levels and the game as a whole is something that needs to be done more often.

Overall score: 6.5-ish

[Dr. Mechano]

I believe they do get out of the Black Comet during the fight (somehow), so they obviously weren't paralyzed anymore. They just sort of sat around and let Shadow do all the work.

Exactly. This is what I meant- When Sonic is freed from his paralysis, he doesn't go after Doom or try to help Shadow at all. He just chills out on Earth, standing around and gawking at Shadow's accomplishment like the rest of the cast. Pah. Blatantly writing Sonic out of the situation in an extroardinarily clumsy fashion.

[Badnik Zero]

Sonic would know when to hang back, IMO. He's not about to jump in there just because he can. Think about how Black Doom is at the center of a tornado in a massive alien super-form. Shadow used the Emeralds to go Super. What can Sonic really do at this point except hang back and offer radio support, help out on the ground, or maybe catch Shadow on the Tornado like in the old games?

Think about how Sonic flew that plane at the end of S3&K for the other characters. It's kinda like that. He knows it's not his show.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Badnikz

[Sega DogTagz]

Was that necessary to spoiler tag famicommander? Not because its old news these days but because it literally contained no real Spoilers?

Anyway you end result sounds similar to what I would give it.

The only thing I really disagree with is your assessment of the guns. In my book, the fact that they are just there, a working system an nothing more, makes them bad. If they were using them as a selling point they could have at least done something with them.

It didnt have to go all FPS on you, but something would have been nice.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[Phos]

Sonic would know when to hang back, IMO. He's not about to jump in there just because he can.

show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buxRt6O05j4#t=2m

Think about how Sonic flew that plane at the end of S3&K for the other characters. It's kinda like that. He know it's not his

That was when there was no fourth wall.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Phos

[Badnik Zero]

^ That's different. Sonic was acting when no one else could.

Especially with Heroes before it, Sonic's very teamwork oriented. If Shadow's the one with the power of the Emeralds, why would he join the fight? That makes even less sense than hanging back. Of course we know Shadow's going to be the hero because it's his game. But in those last scenes the game goes out of its way to explain why Shadow is the only one who can fight Black Doom. Not only does it make sense for his character, but he has that mental-block-blood-bond or whatever it was that allowed him to resist.

That was when there was no fourth wall.

You mean they were or weren't breaking the fourth wall?

Edited July 28, 2009 by Badnikz

[Phos]

Because Shadow leaves after only destroying one or two of those alien things that were intending to munch on Sonic & the gang, it can be safely assumed that Sonic is no longer paralyzed at this time, implying that Back Doom's freezie thing has a pretty limited range or was rendered ineffective without him present. Considering that the last story follows the most heroic ending, it would be an even larger plot whole to assume that Shadow intended to leave Sonic and friends to their fate. It's not like Shadow goes straight from the paralysis scene to the Super fight, there's a long level he still has to go through before he reaches black doom, something he could probably use some help with? Sonic going part way ("this is as far as I can go before Black Doom stops me"), a random aside from Shadow ("Sonic, I'd rather do this on my own"), Mentioning that there are a lot of people who need help, almost anything would have been better than what's in the game.

And Sonic & friend broke the fourth wall constantly in the old games - End of every level, and every time you waited around for a while.

[JezMM]

To those wondering about the canonicity of Shadow (discussed at the top of this page I think), I think the game implied that Shadow's journey through the storylines is interchangable/mergable with each other. You take one of several POSSIBLE routes he could have gone down. However, in the overall grand scheme of things, the entire story would involve:

Central City being destroyed/evacuated, along with the president

Eggman attempting to trick Shadow into believing he is an android

Shadow's flashbacks to the ARK

The GUN Commander's attempt to kill Shadow.

All these points are canon, as they are referred to somewhat in the last story (however I agree, the last story can only continue from a few choice endings, namely heroic ones or ones where Eggman doesn't die at the very least).

So basically, the story is "Shadow does a lot of shit and the ending happens - but it's possible that he might not have done all this shit, in fact he might have ended up doing different shit along the way! Here, have a controller, and entertain the thought of him doing all this different shit by choosing what he does".

That's the game in terms of storyline handling basically.

[famicommander]

Was that necessary to spoiler tag famicommander? Not because its old news these days but because it literally contained no real Spoilers?

On my forum, and most other forums I go to, using the Spoiler tags hides the text in a clickable link that expands and hides it. My intention was to not stretch the page with a wall of text, thinking that the text would be hidden rather than blacked out.

[Rusty Spy]

On my forum, and most other forums I go to, using the Spoiler tags hides the text in a clickable link that expands and hides it. My intention was to not stretch the page with a wall of text, thinking that the text would be hidden rather than blacked out.

It's okay, walls of text are pretty common here. Hell, we've seen longer.

[Gabz Girl]

This made sense. GUN soldiers only attacked you after Westopolis, once the GUN Commander had given the order to do so. They also didn't attack you on the flashback level, Lost Impact, because you were fighting the same cause.

The Black Arms however... the fact they attack you all the time makes no focking sense at all. But then Black Doom is an idiot. It especially irked me when your sidekick would berate you for killing enemies that must be killed to progress, regardless of route through the stage.

I never noticed that about the GUN soldiers, but the Black Arms is just STUPID. I always killed them, even on Black Doom's side. I hate Black Doom. =P

Anyway, what does make the PS2, XBox and Gamecube versions different from eachother? >.> I just remember the Gamecube one having that annoying "freeze and screeching sound" moment during gameplay sometimes. I had it happen to me once when I played Mad Matrix.

[EuroMIX]

I don't think I've ever had the Gamecube version freeze on me and it's the only version I've ever owned. I know one fairly big difference between the versions is that on the GC and XBOX ones you can plug in a second controller and a friend can control most of the assistant characters aside from certain ones such as Robotnik, Charmy and Dooms Eye.

I also believe the loading screens had some slight differences if I remember rightly, could be mistaken though.

I'm in the (rather small) camp of people who actually liked this game. I don't think it's brilliant by any means however I repurchased it recently to play on my Wii and found it rather enjoyable, especially since I didn't get all the A ranks the first time I owned it.

I certainly agree that much of it could have been done a lot better, however I liked some of the improvements Sonic Team made such as moving the camera controls to the C stick and making grinding work better. Also this game included the one thing a lot of people wanted: purely 'Sonic' style stages albeit with Shadow instead. I suppose Sonic Team took our requests of wanting something more serious than Sonic Heroes a little too much to heart though...

[DC111]

As far as the whole Sonic thing, I still believe that the only reason he didn't help was because he was paralyzed. Remember when Shadow defeats Black Doom? In one of the scenes after that, we see Sonic and the gang on the ground, where they were when they were paralyzed. This implies that they were stuck there until Shadow defeated Doom.

Sonic would know when to hang back, IMO. He's not about to jump in there just because he can. Think about how Black Doom is at the center of a tornado in a massive alien super-form. Shadow used the Emeralds to go Super. What can Sonic really do at this point except hang back and offer radio support, help out on the ground, or maybe catch Shadow on the Tornado like in the old games?

Sonic was acting when no one else could.

The way I see it, Sonic was acting because that's what he does in that kind of situation. If someone else had been there to fight alongside him and told him to stay out of it (which is pretty much what Shadow did in ShadowTH), I highly doubt Sonic would have complied and not fought just because 'someone else could.' I like to believe the only reason he didn't fight was because he couldn't.