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7 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Maybe the one hero limit was a bit too far (I personality would have went with a 2 hero limit for QP), but it's a bit silly that we can't even have a middle ground where both game modes are present. It's just gotta be the same old shitty system because some people like it, and if others don't, fuck em and make them play it anyway. Comp mode isn't on all the time either, but apparently we shouldn't have a game mode for those who still like some actual serious play during those off times. Or y'know, maybe they actually want to play an actual game of Overwatch instead of running into a control point in Hanamura and getting frozen and insta-killed by a league of Meis right?

If you like those rulesets, that's fine and dandy, but I shouldn't have to be forced to play them just because some people enjoy that shit, I see absolutely no reason why both modes can't be present and any worries that QP is completely and utterly ruined because of this is nothing but pure speculation at this point.

Why not just give comp a practice mode instead of changing quick play's rules like many have already suggested? That way you can play "real games" without having your points on the line or whatever, and quick play can be left alone.

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3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Why not just give comp a practice mode instead of changing quick play's rules like many have already suggested? That way you can play "real games" without having your points on the line or whatever, and quick play can be left alone.

You mean basically what they're doing now then? If they did that, then by your logic all of the serious players would head right to Practice Comp, and all of the trolls would remain in the QP lobby, which for the record is pure speculation, because we don't know how the QP ruleset is changing, just that there's going to be hero limits. They never specified if it would be exactly Comp, or hero limits, but less strict (Like 2 heros per match, similar to brawls). 

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Just now, Ryannumber1gamer said:

You mean basically what they're doing now then? If they did that, then by your logic all of the serious players would head right to Practice Comp, and all of the trolls would remain in the QP lobby, which for the record is pure speculation, because we don't know how the QP ruleset is changing, just that there's going to be hero limits. They never specified if it would be exactly Comp, or hero limits, but less strict (Like 2 heros per match, similar to brawls). 

We've known we're getting the single hero limit since yesterday.

https://gamerant.com/overwatch-character-limit-quickplay-arcade-mode/

And I don't really want them to seperate the modes because it's going to kill the variety. Instead of seeing some interesting team comps that involve 2-3 of the same character I'm going to either be playing with tryhards or people who will play 6 of the same character most of the time. It divides the community and some of the spontaneous and unexpected strategies that make quick play fun is going to be lost in the process.

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4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

We've known we're getting the single hero limit since yesterday.

https://gamerant.com/overwatch-character-limit-quickplay-arcade-mode/

And I don't really want them to seperate the modes because it's going to kill the variety. Instead of seeing some interesting team comps that involve 2-3 of the same character I'm going to either be playing with tryhards or people who will play 6 of the same character most of the time. It divides the community and some of the spontaneous and unexpected strategies that make quick play fun is going to be lost in the process.

And once again, you don't even know that. All of this is pure speculation. You and Stricker already demonstrated that there's going to be people out there who will always want 2-3 hero comps. There's obviously more of them outside of Comp, and they'll all flood into the arcade mode to have those compositions they like. At worst, stacked teams will show up slightly more often, but then again by your own admission, you said you can deal with them through countering and skill. At best, it's exactly like QP is right now. Some asshole teams, and the normal varied hero selection. It's absolutely silly to believe that those people who like that will just completely leave the game or jump into a brand new QP mode, and while there's some room for worry, there's no reason to go panicking about this being the end of one of OW's best modes when it hasn't even released yet. 

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6 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

And once again, you don't even know that. All of this is pure speculation. You and Stricker already demonstrated that there's going to be people out there who will always want 2-3 hero comps. There's obviously more of them outside of Comp, and they'll all flood into the arcade mode to have those compositions they like. At worst, stacked teams will show up slightly more often, but then again by your own admission, you said you can deal with them through countering and skill. At best, it's exactly like QP is right now. Some asshole teams, and the normal varied hero selection. It's absolutely silly to believe that those people who like that will just completely leave the game or jump into a brand new QP mode, and while there's some room for worry, there's no reason to go panicking about this being the end of one of OW's best modes when it hasn't even released yet. 

You're right that this is speculation and that there is a complete chance that we could be wrong but the thing is that it has happened in other games. The best scenario in terms of realism I can see (based off these games) is that you'll actually get some decent games in the new 6v6 mode but the rest can only be trolling. At the end of the day you're still splitting the middle ground into two and making extreme opposites which goes directly against what QP is right now. Also, I can only imagine how bad the limited QP will get now in terms of interactions. Comp is already bad enough in that regard but it did a great job in keeping that section separated with their own rules. Again, more limitations is just going to bring in more problems in terms of communication. I already see it a lot when people argue over wanting to be a certain character in comp. Extending that to the new base mode is just asking for toxic behavior.

7 hours ago, Wraith said:

Lucio also pretty desperately needed and still needs nerfs. Like you said, he's pretty much necessary for most maps and compositions. In a game like this, that's pretty unreasonable. There should be a variety of characters depending on the situation so Sombra being a hard counter to Lucio only helps the game's life. You just won't be able to play Lucio on every match anymore.

But Lucio is so much fun...

Though seriously, I honestly have to disagree with you here. Yes he's picked a lot but I'm not seeing why that's a reason to nerf him. If Blizz wants more healers to get picked then why don't they address their issues instead of just weakening the one on the top? At this rate, being a healer in general will be useless compared to the benefits the other classes offer in contrast.

I just don't think adding problems to an already good healer while not making the others more appealing is a good fix for the problem. I'd hate to see a situation where it's more of a "pick the less horrible one and lets go". Get that already with the election imo

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10 hours ago, Strickerx5 said:

But Lucio is so much fun...

Though seriously, I honestly have to disagree with you here. Yes he's picked a lot but I'm not seeing why that's a reason to nerf him. If Blizz wants more healers to get picked then why don't they address their issues instead of just weakening the one on the top? At this rate, being a healer in general will be useless compared to the benefits the other classes offer in contrast.

I just don't think adding problems to an already good healer while not making the others more appealing is a good fix for the problem. I'd hate to see a situation where it's more of a "pick the less horrible one and lets go". Get that already with the election imo

Because most of the healers already ARE pretty good and have a nice balance of strengths and weaknesses and Lucio just invalidates all of them. You don't make all of them as good as him because that doesn't make sense. Then they'd all just be broken. Just nerf him to the point where sometimes another healer would be preferable. Lucio mains would have to play other characters sometimes, but that would just mean they're playing Overwatch like the rest of us. :U 

 

17 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

And once again, you don't even know that. All of this is pure speculation. You and Stricker already demonstrated that there's going to be people out there who will always want 2-3 hero comps. There's obviously more of them outside of Comp, and they'll all flood into the arcade mode to have those compositions they like. At worst, stacked teams will show up slightly more often, but then again by your own admission, you said you can deal with them through countering and skill. At best, it's exactly like QP is right now. Some asshole teams, and the normal varied hero selection. It's absolutely silly to believe that those people who like that will just completely leave the game or jump into a brand new QP mode, and while there's some room for worry, there's no reason to go panicking about this being the end of one of OW's best modes when it hasn't even released yet. 

It just seems like a weird and unnecessary change to me when most people were fine with quick play and are against the change anyway. Like, sure maybe you don't like playing on the 2% of the matches where a team runs a six stack....but I don't like playing on kings row or fighting Lucio and Mccree. Can we change the rules and eliminate them too? People should just learn how to fight a six stack. Even when you're solo queuing there's massive gaps in a six man team to exploit because they aren't covering most of the roles. If your team is bad, your team is bad and you were probably going to lose the match anyway.

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Hm. Actually now I'm sorta worried QP might be a little too serious or toxic, after reading Wraith's posts...

I'll have to wait and see.

On the subject of Lucio I really like him on stages where I can push people off the edge. I don't use him much otherwise, though. I generally stick to Zenyatta.

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Because most of the healers already ARE pretty good and have a nice balance of strengths and weaknesses and Lucio just invalidates all of them. You don't make all of them as good as him because that doesn't make sense. Then they'd all just be broken. Just nerf him to the point where sometimes another healer would be preferable. Lucio mains would have to play other characters sometimes, but that would just mean they're playing Overwatch like the rest of us. :U

If the other healers already had a good balance they'd be picked way more than they are now. Besides, I'd far from call Lucio broken. He has a lot of negatives already with him like his low health, slow projectiles, low damage, and the fact that you can't really heal anyone properly for a good 10 seconds at a time. It just takes a lot of timing to make him work. A main complaint I always see thrown against him is that he has that speed boost but that always offsets because he's not healing then. Plus, most people only use the thing 5% of the time anyways so it's never really the difference between a win and a lose. You know, unless there's some high level meta I'm not seeing though I don't particularly think the game should be based around that anyway since less than 1% of players are operating of it.

I just don't see how nerfing the best one is the best form of action. It might be the easier option to get all the healers equal, but at the end of the day they're all still going to have a lot of flaws and just make the healing class seem more useless than it is now.

Also, who the hell mains anyone in OW? I certainly play certain characters A LOT more than others but that's going to be the case for everyone. Plus there's always going to be other cases where it'd be more beneficial to choose a tank or something so you have to have more than 1 hero you're good at. The game won't be fun for you if that's not the case. My general group right now is Junkrat, Ana, Lucio (of-fucking-coruse :V), Reinhardt, and a toss up between Reaper, 76, and Tracer when it comes to attack. There are also heroes I'll switch to in certain situations like Bastion or Winston. I do agree that you need to have that flexibility but weakening the best hero of a class without addressing the issues of the others isn't going to help.

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6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

He's a fun character. I really like his design and everything. I just wish he didn't have such a hard grip on the game at this point. I like playing the other healers more but it just doesn't make sense to a lot of the time. 

Oh yeah design-wise he's especially good. Plus his personality, he's so friendly and nice. Like if he were real I'd totally hang out with him, hehe.

@Strickerx5 My sister used to main Lucio. She played Mystery Heroes though and now she plays as more people, but before that she only played as him. I mean, she's 14 and isn't like, a HUGE GAMER NERD like me so she probably didn't know much about switching heroes or using that as a strategy.

...Er, basically I'm just saying some people are more comfortable sticking to one hero, because of skill level or preference.

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2 minutes ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

@Strickerx5 My sister used to main Lucio. She played Mystery Heroes though and now she plays as more people, but before that she only played as him. I mean, she's 14 and isn't like, a HUGE GAMER NERD like me so she probably didn't know much about switching heroes or using that as a strategy.

...Er, basically I'm just saying some people are more comfortable sticking to one hero, because of skill level or preference.

Well I think it just goes to show how vital of an aspect it is when she realized by herself that it was better experience to switch sometimes. Also, I don't know a single person who didn't stick to a single character when they first started the game. Mine was Tracer.

Though now I can only imagine what it's going to be like for new players coming in with these QP changes...

27 minutes ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

Hm. Actually now I'm sorta worried QP might be a little too serious or toxic, after reading Wraith's posts...

Yep, it's basically going to be comp without rank. I fear that all that seriousness is going to spill over to QP now which will completely isolate new players from properly learning the game.

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3 minutes ago, Strickerx5 said:

If the other healers already had a good balance they'd be picked way more than they are now. Besides, I'd far from call Lucio broken. He has a lot of negatives already with him like his low health, slow projectiles, low damage, and the fact that you can't really heal anyone properly for a good 10 seconds at a time. It just takes a lot of timing to make him work. A main complaint I always see thrown against him is that he has that speed boost but that always offsets because he's not healing then. Plus, most people only use the thing 5% of the time anyways so it's never really the difference between a win and a lose. You know, unless there's some high level meta I'm not seeing though I don't particularly think the game should be based around that anyway since less than 1% of players are operating of it.

I just don't see how nerfing the best one is the best form of action. It might be the easier option to get all the healers equal, but at the end of the day they're all still going to have a lot of flaws and just make the healing class seem more useless than it is now.

Also, who the hell mains anyone in OW? I certainly play certain characters A LOT more than others but that's going to be the case for everyone. Plus there's always going to be other cases where it'd be more beneficial to choose a tank or something so you have to have more than 1 hero you're good at. The game won't be fun for you if that's not the case. My general group right now is Junkrat, Ana, Lucio (of-fucking-coruse :V), Reinhardt, and a toss up between Reaper, 76, and Tracer when it comes to attack. There are also heroes I'll switch to in certain situations like Bastion or Winston. I do agree that you need to have that flexibility but weakening the best hero of a class without addressing the issues of the others isn't going to help.

In competitive mode I pretty much see him all the time, but you're right that they shouldn't just balance the game around that. Sombra being able to counter him is probably the best action they could have taken, since I don't think he had enough characters that could do that to him. It should also be noted that pretty much all the healers are pretty strong characters. Zenyatta is also packing the power of an offense character, Ana can heal from long range and does tons of damage in her own right, and Mercy can bring you back from the dead. Lucio was just somehow better than all of them even with how great they all are. If we buffed them all to Lucio's level we'd have a very annoying class on our hands. 

Speed is also used a lot in competitive mode because  it shaves a lot of time off of getting back to the map and that could mean everything, so I wouldn't sleep on it.

I wasn't trying to suggest you were a Lucio main. I had a friend that pretty much played him exclusively until recently so that's why I said that.

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16 minutes ago, Strickerx5 said:

Well I think it just goes to show how vital of an aspect it is when she realized by herself that it was better experience to switch sometimes. Also, I don't know a single person who didn't stick to a single character when they first started the game. Mine was Tracer.

Though now I can only imagine what it's going to be like for new players coming in with these QP changes...

Yep, it's basically going to be comp without rank. I fear that all that seriousness is going to spill over to QP now which will completely isolate new players from properly learning the game.

Mm, she still doesn't switch during matches yet, but she's at least not picking a less viable character. Before Lucio she'd only pick Genji no matter the circumstance, for example. She's come a long way and I'm proud of her ;v;

I'm surprised she liked the game at all TBH, I never saw her as someone who would like shooting games.

COUGH this isn't the topic we were on before but uh, yeah. If this new change starts causing problems, I'll have to agree that it's a bad decision. I want to try it out before jumping to conclusions however, and I am very interested in the other modes Arcade has to offer!

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When it comes to OW, maining is a tricky thing. Maining a character isn't inherently a bad idea because you might enjoy one or two characters' gameplay styles a lot more, and in some cases, I'd prefer a person picking someone they're actually competent with rather than picking one they've got no experience with, and can't actually play for the sake of filling a role. If you have a Lucio who doesn't know how to properly use his agility and speed boosts to avoid enemies to you can keep alive longer to heal allies, and contest payloads, then you won't be doing much for the team either way.

On the other hand however, you can't just pick one character and decide that they're the only one you'll play. It's best to at least main one hero from every section so that you can fill a decent role if needed, which is what I've generally tried to do. I main characters, but I'm not against learning other characters as well. There was a point where I only played Genji, and sometimes Mercy, and I decided I needed to up my roster so I can bring more to games, which is what inspired me to learn Tracer, Reaper, D.Va, Lucio, Mercy, and Junkrat. There's nothing wrong with maining a character, but you need to learn that you'll need to learn a few of them so you can still switch heroes on the fly for important roles. 

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On the topic of Lucio, his problem wasn't much his overall healing output that made him overpowered, but his Speed Boost.

His old Speed Boost amp of +100% movement speed and to an extend his current nerfed amp of +70% mov speed made what was called a "deathball" strategy pretty common, with teams just storming into a point and breaking all static defenses in a finger snap. The fact that no other hero can provide movement speed buffs on demand also contributes to his secured spot in team compositions. Movement speed is just too powerful in the right hands, and with an aura range of 40 meters it's easy to keep that buff on your entire team most of the time.

For instance, when I play Lucio during team fights I tend to have movement speed aura up slightly more often than healing, since extra movement helps my team get into position faster and also makes the enemy team miss more often. It's even fun to dictate the pace of a fight by alternating between the two auras at will, and also satisfying when done right. xD

Sure, healing aura is safer to use, and that's where most players (me included :P) start with, but once the player learns to use both his auras in tandem with the current situation he becomes much more stronger.

 

Also, I kinda have to disagree about the notion of the high level meta consisting of less than 1% of the players. Last time I heard about ranked statistics there were at least a good couple millions of players playing Competitive, with a good chunk of them being in Platinum and Diamond tiers (around 40-60% of those players). While it's not the highest of tiers, a lot of the problems that affect high level play, like the Ana meta, are also widely present in Platinum/Diamond (Gold and below apparently have different mindsets from what I hear, although they have far less players than Platinum alone for some weird reason).

Either way, it's far more than 1% of the players who are into advanced OW stuff. Besides, it just wouldn't make sense to balance the game around the casual crowd anyway regardless of how bigger the non-Competitive faction is. Only exception would be extreme cases that are plaguing Quick Play and other fan favourite, non-Competitive modes. I recently heard from a few Reddit peeps that Mei stacks were quite an headache in QP (due to that ult buff some time ago) and that might've been one of the factors contributing to QP's 1 hero limit clause now. Not sure if that's really the case though (I usually only see 1 Mei per team in average, maybe 2 Mei in Hanamura), but it might provide some insight as to why Blizzard's going for that change.

Edited by Mystwalker
Added a paragraph, usual fixes

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6 hours ago, Mystwalker said:

On the topic of Lucio, his problem wasn't much his overall healing output that made him overpowered, but his Speed Boost.

His old Speed Boost amp of +100% movement speed and to an extend his current nerfed amp of +70% mov speed made what was called a "deathball" strategy pretty common, with teams just storming into a point and breaking all static defenses in a finger snap. The fact that no other hero can provide movement speed buffs on demand also contributes to his secured spot in team compositions. Movement speed is just too powerful in the right hands, and with an aura range of 40 meters it's easy to keep that buff on your entire team most of the time.

For instance, when I play Lucio during team fights I tend to have movement speed aura up slightly more often than healing, since extra movement helps my team get into position faster and also makes the enemy team miss more often. It's even fun to dictate the pace of a fight by alternating between the two auras at will, and also satisfying when done right. xD

Sure, healing aura is safer to use, and that's where most players (me included :P) start with, but once the player learns to use both his auras in tandem with the current situation he becomes much more stronger.

 

Also, I kinda have to disagree about the notion of the high level meta consisting of less than 1% of the players. Last time I heard about ranked statistics there were at least a good couple millions of players playing Competitive, with a good chunk of them being in Platinum and Diamond tiers (around 40-60% of those players). While it's not the highest of tiers, a lot of the problems that affect high level play, like the Ana meta, are also widely present in Platinum/Diamond (Gold and below apparently have different mindsets from what I hear, although they have far less players than Platinum alone for some weird reason).

Either way, it's far more than 1% of the players who are into advanced OW stuff. Besides, it just wouldn't make sense to balance the game around the casual crowd anyway regardless of how bigger the non-Competitive faction is. Only exception would be extreme cases that are plaguing Quick Play and other fan favourite, non-Competitive modes. I recently heard from a few Reddit peeps that Mei stacks were quite an headache in QP (due to that ult buff some time ago) and that might've been one of the factors contributing to QP's 1 hero limit clause now. Not sure if that's really the case though (I usually only see 1 Mei per team in average, maybe 2 Mei in Hanamura), but it might provide some insight as to why Blizzard's going for that change.

So buffing Mei was a terrible idea. Been saying that from the beginning :V

Though seriously, I never found a 6 Mei team all that much of a challenge. They usually cluster up so I just go Junkrat and get those easy multi-kills. Also, watching a multitude of Meis explode is so calming...

While a large portion of comp is diamond or above, I wouldn't say that's an accurate depiction of the population that actually plays the game based strictly on the meta. Blizz has even stated that their current ranking algorithm isn't that good so there are a lot of people in there that probably shouldn't be that high. I just find it hard to believe that a large enough percentile plays the game with that high of an understanding. It takes a large dedication of time and understanding of a multitude of factors (the game having 23 different characters at this point for a start) to even begin to utilize most of these strategies mid-game. And that's not even going into the amount of team work needed to even begin to strongly utilize most team-strategies at that level. Again, I'm all for balancing but there's just a level of skill going into that top percentage that simply doesn't carry over well for the majority.

Also again, in regards to Lucio, it seems to be his speed boost that is a sticking point with people like you said. Though, at this point what nerfs can you even put on him that would fix this problem for some? At the end of the day, he's still going to give that boost that will put his team over the other that doesn't have a Lucio too in that category. Nerfing isn't going to help. The more I think about it, the more I'll say that I'm actually starting to warm up to Sombra being a counter for him. At least that way you don't have to completely gimp him and it puts another character into a useful standing.

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It'd definitely be hard to nerf Lucio any more without having him lose his identity. If it were me I'd try keeping his current healing/speed values but lower down his aura range to 30m or so, that way Lucio will have to choose more often who or which group to support. That wouldn't stop him from having near-mandatory status in some games, but at least gives him some more counterplay. That or either have more characters to deal with him (Sombra as you mentioned) or new heroes that can provide movement speed.

 

Yesterday there was an update to the Public Test Region servers that added Sombra and the Arcade modes and there was a developer comment bit about the 1HL subject.

Quote
  • Quick Play matches are now restricted to one of each hero per team

Developer Comments: We’ve been monitoring your feedback to the 1-hero limit in Competitive Play. Overall, we believe the game is in a better place in terms of balance and stability with the hero limit in place. For this reason, we have decided to add the 1-hero limit to Quick Play. We understand that there are a lot of players who enjoy the ability to play multiples of the same hero, so we have introduced a new mode to the Arcade called “No Limits.” This mode uses Quick Play’s original ruleset, which allows for hero stacking.

Also yeah, they're addressing the rating algorithm that made most people place into Platinum by lowering the overall starting ratings for Season 3.

Quote

We've also made a few adjustments to the skill rating system for season 3. Players will be distributed more broadly across the skill tiers, which means that your season 3 rating will probably be lower than the previous season.

Developer Comments: When season 2 started, we had more players in the Gold and Platinum skill tiers than we originally intended. This meant that skill levels varied widely for players within those tiers, and some players were achieving inappropriately high rankings during their placement matches. These players typically began the season by having their skill rating adjusted downwards after their first few matches. For season 3, skill ratings will be slightly lower after your placement matches, allowing them to increase as the season begins. After you play enough matches, your skill rating changes will return to normal.

Maybe now we can tell better how many players there are in the upper half of the spectrum, lol. Still think it's a fair bit more than 1%, but eh, I think there's little point to keep this up without concrete numbers from Blizzard.

From the Twitch streams I've seen the Arcade mode looks pretty cool. Saw 1v1 Mystery Duel played a lot and a small bit of 3v3 Elimination, and the new Antarctica map is a great place for both of them. Maybe it can see a place in custom games/events sometime in the future depending on how the modes evolve.

Edited by Mystwalker
these quote boxes man

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The 3v3 mode is fun. Really, really fun.

That is all.

 

And Sombra, well, she's pretty good for a stealth hero. Unfortunately, most people think she's a damage dealer, because of her place in Offense. And just a word of advice, DON'T USE HER CAMO TO ESCAPE FIGHTS! If the other team sees you cloaking, you'll become very easy to spot if you're headed down one path.

Also, Season 3 Competitive testing sucks, because no one is taking it seriously :\

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My first lootbox had Winston's Yeti Legendary, and the next 6 (bonus boxes from playing the new brawls once each, the 3 boxes from winning 9 times in Arcade, and one level up box) had Mei's, Tracer's and Pharah's Christmas costumes, as well as Ana's Toast victory pose and Symmetra's Snowflake highlight intro.

I'm having some really good luck already!

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