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Can we talk about the Sonic Social Media outlets for a moment...


Badnik Mechanic
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Not to sound like a meanie or anything but you lost me. Like, where's the point of your post and how does this relate to this thread?

That an official source turning the franchise into a joke has a bittersweet edge at a time when the franchise is genuinely badly injured.  When even the PR can't find something unironically good to say about the franchise, perhaps there's cause for concern.

My own feelings are mixed.  I don't think it's wrong to embrace the surreal side of fandom that's bounced back from all the bad games and turned them into something enjoyable, and yet at the same time it does highlight the lack of good games and good things to say about them.

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Badnik Mechanic

That an official source turning the franchise into a joke has a bittersweet edge at a time when the franchise is genuinely badly injured.  

But how is it being turned into a joke when the response both within and outside of the fandom has been so positive? 

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Roger obviously said "I'm conflicted" regarding Sonic's Social Media Presence and then continued to explain how he would find it funny usually but in the wider context of Sonic's current situation that he can't find it funny whilst Sonic is in a bad state, comparing it to Megaman. 

It's not hard to understand, why is everyone jumping at him? 

Edited by Regen
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But how is it being turned into a joke when the response both within and outside of the fandom has been so positive? 

The reception has nothing to do with it. It's still yet another piece of media that degrades the characters into nothing more than walking punchlines and internet memes, as opposed to embracing who the characters for who they are and celebrating it. The only bit of Sonic media that does that any more is the Archie comics. Yes, Ian and company frequently resorts to using internet memes for a cheap laugh, but at the same time the comics have been about embracing the world and its characters, and adding to it. The rest of Sonic media hasn't been doing that for the past 6 years since Black Knight: it's been either mocking or deriding itself or resorting to half-hearted retro pandering.

I have to agree with Roger as a whole. Yes, Ruby has had his golden moments, but at the end of the day there's a bittersweet subtext to it all.

Edited by shdowhunt60
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But how is it being turned into a joke when the response both within and outside of the fandom has been so positive? 

I think you have to read the difference between regressive positivity and progressive positivity. The positivity read on the Sonic social media outlets have a distinct flavour of the first one, as in the "That's the Sonic I knew and love" kind of way. Even though the methods are new and admirable, the content is old hat and 100% undiluted nostalgia, which if nothing changes, makes it a pretty sad affair. So yeah, it's pretty bittersweet. I'm grateful for the attempts, but that's pretty much it. 

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Badnik Mechanic

The reception has nothing to do with it. It's still yet another piece of media that degrades the characters into nothing more than walking punchlines and internet memes,

According to who? Who is seriously saying this or actually believes it?

 the content is old hat and 100% undiluted nostalgia

 Have you actually looked at any of it? The other day the twitter account basically got several major game studios and even some media outlets involved in a giant game character moustache party? 

New audience associating Sonic with comedy endangers return of serious Sonic.

...According to who? Lol how on earth do you get to that conclusion?

Also isn't your argument here a tad oxymoronic? "I don't like the internet humour/memes, but the jokes are funny 9/10... however it risks bringing back the serious Sonic.

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According to who? Who is seriously saying this or actually believes it?

A number of people in this thread actually. You know, I have to question your motives here if you're going to make a thread inviting discussion, and then act like other people's opinions are invalid or if they don't even exist.  

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Roger_van_der_weide
 

 

...According to who? Lol how on earth do you get to that conclusion?

My statement concerned only my emotions. It wasn't intended or advertised as fact

I'm stating emotions and thoughts I have.
That was my interpretation of the assignment of this topic.

Here's the exact notion of this current topic in so far I understood:
 

"I (hogfather) say it (Sonic's media) should keep doing stuff like this (insert humor).Anyone else?(Us) If not...(A desire for Sonic media to stop inserting humor) honestly why? (Request for honesty and explanations for potential disagreement)"

If I mistook the assignment, my apologies.
My statements are not to be taken for factual evidence for insider information, precise knowledge of events and any other statements as issued by Sega coorporation. They are merely to demonstrate my thoughts leading to my potential agreement/ disagreement on the actions of Sega's media staff.


As for how I came my potentially incorrect thoughts, these are the steps of thinking:

Step 1: Sonic had a (Arguably) bad reputation (around circa 2005- 2015).
Step 2: Increase in humor seems to have lead to improvement in reputation (no sources. Conjecture).
Step 3: Positive interest in Sonic is observed (No sources. Conjecture).
Step 4: Possibility that it's the humor that triggered this increase in interest. (No sources, conjecture)
Step 5: Humor increasing brand value may convince Sega too continue to pursue it. (no sources, conjecture)
Step 6: Possibility that new fans are only exposed to humorous media of Sonic, therefore may be unaware of not humor possibilities. (No sources, conjecture)

Any if all of these steps are conjecture, assumptions and shall not be taken as fact.
These are possibilities I am considering, therefore leading to emotions.
As such, I shared my emotions as that was the assignment of this topic.

To wit:
I am worried that new fans may primarely like Sonic because it's funny, not be aware that Sonic can also be not funny sometimes. And Sega has less motivation to stop focusing primarely on being funny.
This, combined with the fact I'm starting to feel tired of the onslaught of the same type funnyness is concerning me.
Therefore I am conclicted on this otherwise very funny and very helpful increase in humor in Sonic media.

I will Not take action against Sonic's media, nor will I discourage anyone to enjoy Sonic's media.
I respect it's decisions, am considerably aware of it's worth and my lack of position to take any action against it. I shall continue my duties and await further instructions.

Thank you.
 

Edited by Roger_van_der_weide
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Badnik Mechanic

Yeah because questioning how many people believe what you do is totally acting as if an opinion doesn't exist.

So far the only argument that I've seen as to why people are against this is because they're worried about what may happen in the future and again I really don't see anyone so far who has actually put up a well rounded reason as to why the social media stuff is bad other than "I don't like internet humour".

Ok that's fine, but provide me with actual hard evidence, be it a serious number of people who genially don't like or who don't dislike everything Sega does regardless as to how good it is. 

I can point to the topic on Gaf about the Social media stuff which is nothing but praise, Retro has nothing but praise for it, SSMB with the exception of 3 people seems to have nothing but praise for it, I've not been to the Sega forums recently but they seem to like it, the response from other CM's and social media outlets seem to like it and think it's a good thing.

If it really is doing the franchise harm, what's the foundation for this? And where are the people who believe this?

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The problem that Roger and shdowhunt60 are talking about is that this social media thing wouldn't bother us if it didn't reflect the bad stuff in the games. The fact that the writers don't even try to do anything aside from telling jokes specifically. Anyone wanting the characters to start actually behaving like themselves and the plots to start trying to have a point sees this as another reminder of what displeases them about the series.

The Yo-Kai Watch social media people actually do a similar thing:

But the difference is that the characters in the anime and games are never just vehicles for jokes, they're fully realized individuals with quirks but also hummanity, which is why I don't mind this tweet. With Sonic however it's just more jokes that honestly makes us doubt if the franchise will ever try to be more than just jokes.

Since you love proof so much Hogfather here's what you can do: Give me evidence that shows me that this is just for social media and that the main series games made by Sonic Team will actually embrace Sonic's identity and have heart to it, then we will stop feeling this way.

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The reception has nothing to do with it. It's still yet another piece of media that degrades the characters into nothing more than walking punchlines and internet memes, as opposed to embracing who the characters for who they are and celebrating it. The only bit of Sonic media that does that any more is the Archie comics. Yes, Ian and company frequently resorts to using internet memes for a cheap laugh, but at the same time the comics have been about embracing the world and its characters, and adding to it. The rest of Sonic media hasn't been doing that for the past 6 years since Black Knight: it's been either mocking or deriding itself or resorting to half-hearted retro pandering.

That comparison makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's a tweet dude. Of course the focus isn't going to be about embracing the world and its characters.

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If it really is doing the franchise harm, what's the foundation for this? And where are the people who believe this?

I believe that's a matter of personal preference. If you're like me and the couple of other people in this thread, who's experiencing fatigue from the fact that the franchise is going in a direction that we don't want or like, then yes: in my eyes that's certainly damaging the franchise. Why do I have to conform to everyone else's thinking on the matter? I don't like Sonic being nothing but a Magic 8 Ball of internet memes. I don't have to like it, I don't want to like it, so therefore I don't like it. That's where my preferences lie.

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Have you actually looked at any of it? The other day the twitter account basically got several major game studios and even some media outlets involved in a giant game character moustache party? 

Yes, yes and yes. The whole moustache party is an excellent demonstration in regressive positivity. A qualified majority of the replies to that is about "It's like the 90's again", "SEGA does what Nintendon't" and such. All of them dank memes and washed-out campaigns. It's the "Reminiscence Bump" that SEGA has now when it comes to Sonic and continues to capitalize on in Social media. I suggest you watch this Vsauce episode for more info on that subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD0x7ho_IYc

But, as Roger already pointed out, the concern is more of a gut-feeling than something calculated. If you have a strong confidence in the Sonic social media outlets, then I'll let you have it. I'm not gonna ruin your fun if fun is what you're have with it. Agree to disagree? 

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That comparison makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's a tweet dude. Of course the focus isn't going to be about embracing the world and its characters.

And I wouldn't expect it to. But when you add the context of where this franchise has been going in the past 6 years, there's a fatigue for this sort of thing, so when you see something else like it, regardless of where you're coming from, it's a matter of rolling your eyes and saying "Not again!". 

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Badnik Mechanic

Since you love proof so much Hogfather here's what you can do: Give me evidence that shows me that this is just for social media and that the main series games made by Sonic Team will actually embrace Sonic's identity and have heart to it, then we will stop feeling this way.

I will do just this. Just for you.

But first I would like you to put up the money for my plane ticket to Japan, and I'm going to need a hotel as well, and probably around £500 spending money since Tokyo is expensive especially near Christmas.

I will attempt to navigate the Tokyo tube, despite hundreds of tourists a year getting lost on it, but I shall walk, I shall crawl, I shall hire a rickshaw driver if necessary to take me directly from the airport to Sega HQ. I will personally go to Sega, use my best English to speak to the Japanese receptionist and say, 

"Excuse me, may I please speak to Mr Iizuka, I would like to know if Aaron Webber's comments are reflective of the main game series or not."

It was either this post, or point out the difference between proving if there are fans out there in a large majority who believe all the 'bad things' which are apparently going to come from the Social Media stuff/are worried about stuff despite their being no foundation or reason to justify those fears Vs someone's desire as to how they think Sonic should be and if Sega share their mindset behind their confidential walls. 

But I think everybody knows that you already knew this and was hoping I wouldn't be able to point out how ridiculous that statement was, was that about right? 

Edited by Hogfather
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Roger_van_der_weide

 

Ok that's fine, but provide me with actual hard evidence, be it a serious number of people who genially don't like or who don't dislike everything Sega does regardless as to how good it is. 

<...>

If it really is doing the franchise harm, what's the foundation for this? And where are the people who believe this?

Well, you heard the general men:
You are no longer allowed to have conflicting emotions, thoughts or disagreements, unless we come with hard evidence. Sonic media's succes is an undeniable fact and you WILL love it unless we can provide counter evidence.

Shdwhunt60: I want you go to headquarters, and provide me with a full database of the exact numbers of people who regained new interest in Sonic. I want their names, their age, their game collections. We need to know the exact day they converted, we need to know the exact sentence or action that lead to this decision. I want a written report on everyone. Go.

PPP, I need you to give me a full overview of the stocks in Sega. Give me the exact date a new joke was made and the exact number of interest in these same time periods. I also need you to look into alternative universes so we can observe what happened when no jokes were made.

AC/H&M
, Give me the full list of every person interested in a future Sonic and give a full analysis on every person's desire for humor or not.

We shall not rest, we shall not have our own emotions, thoughts or concerns unless we can prove the world that we have the full, complete and only truth. Only the General has that right. Godspeed.

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Badnik Mechanic

Well, you heard the general men:You are no longer allowed to have conflicting emotions, thoughts or disagreements, unless we come with hard evidence. Sonic media's succes is an undeniable fact and you WILL love it unless we can provide counter evidence.

Or you could I dunno, point out exactly why you're worried about what apparently might happen despite having absolutely no reason to suggest it will?

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And I wouldn't expect it to. But when you add the context of where this franchise has been going in the past 6 years, there's a fatigue for this sort of thing, so when you see something else like it, regardless of where you're coming from, it's a matter of rolling your eyes and saying "Not again!". 

The tweets are not really that big of a deal, they seem like just harmless fun so in the long run I'm not really going to care all that much.

Game quality, on the other hand...

Edited by SSF1991
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Or you could I dunno, point out exactly why you're worried about what apparently might happen despite having absolutely no reason to suggest it will?

Because he apparently didn't do that before. Gotcha.

 

The tweets are not really that big of a deal, they seem like just harmless fun so in the long run I'm not really going to care all that much.

Game quality, on the other hand...

Again, this is just a personal perception thing. To one person it might seem like it's really not a big deal, but to another it's another step in a discerning direction. It just boils down to how someone else might see something.

As for Game Quality, eh. Rise of Lyric happened, and had nothing to do with Sonic Team. Lost World was also a thing, but that game was all sorts of confused. I'm actually fairly confident that the next Sonic Team title will be at the very least competently fun as a game.

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I will do just this. Just for you.

But first I would like you to put up the money for my plane ticket to Japan, and I'm going to need a hotel as well, and probably around £500 spending money since Tokyo is expensive especially near Christmas.

And I will personally go to Sega, use my best English to speak to the Japanese receptionist and say 

"Excuse me, may I please speak to Mr Iizuka, I would like to know if Aaron Webber's comments are reflective of the main game series or not."

 

It was either this post, or point out the difference between proving if there are fans out there in a large majority who believe all the 'bad things' which are apparently going to come from the Social Media stuff, Vs someones desire as to how they think Sonic should be and if Sega share their mindset behind their confidential walls. 

But I think everybody knows that you already knew this and was hoping I wouldn't be able to point out how ridiculous that statement was, was that about right? 

You know Hogfather, you could try to debate people without needlessy making fun of them and calling them ridicoulous just cause they don't see things your way. The point I was trying to make is that this social media stuff reminds us of stuff about the franchise we don't like so obviously we don't like it. If you saw the official Square twitter back in early 2013(Back before FF14 rereleased and FF15 had that awesome E3 reveal, so FF13 shit was all that was around) start talking about how awesome Lightning is and how everybody should love her, would you roll your eyes at the fact they're still hung up on FF13 or would you just start talking about how awesome she is? I'm assuming it's the former, so would it be right of me to come to you and say "What? Why are you so negative about this tweet? It's not like the whole series is gonna revolve around her forever, nevermind that it actually has for 3 years now"?

Now can you answer my question without acting all hostil towards me just cause I don't agree with you without question? I would be thankful.

Edited by pppp
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Rey Skywalker-Ren

Well, you heard the general men:You are no longer allowed to have conflicting emotions, thoughts or disagreements, unless we come with hard evidence. Sonic media's succes is an undeniable fact and you WILL love it unless we can provide counter evidence.

Shdwhunt60: I want you go to headquarters, and provide me with a full database of the exact numbers of people who regained new interest in Sonic. I want their names, their age, their game collections. We need to know the exact day they converted, we need to know the exact sentence or action that lead to this decision. I want a written report on everyone. Go.

PPP, I need you to give me a full overview of the stocks in Sega. Give me the exact date a new joke was made and the exact number of interest in these same time periods. I also need you to look into alternative universes so we can observe what happened when no jokes were made.

AC/H&M
, Give me the full list of every person interested in a future Sonic and give a full analysis on every person's desire for humor or not.
We shall not rest, we shall not have our own emotions, thoughts or concerns unless we can prove the world that we have the full, complete and only truth. Only the General has that right. Godspeed.

Omg haha as much as this is funny I do have to say that Hog is not saying you cannot think the tweets are not funny.

He is saying that he doesnt understand how people seeing a twitter feed is gonna make them think the Sonic series is like that and I agree with him. all they are doing is not only to get people into the series but to have some fun! I know Sonic is not a comdedy but its also not CSI either

Edited by Sonikku Mikyeong
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Badnik Mechanic

You know Hogfather, you could try to debate people without needlessy making fun of them and calling them ridicoulous just cause you don't see things your way.

Then don't post something completely ridiculous then.

 The point I was trying to make is that this social media stuff reminds us of stuff about the franchise we don't like so obviously we don't like it. If you saw the official Square twitter back in early 2013(Back before FF14 rereleased and FF15 had that awesome E3 reveal, so FF13 shit was all that was around) start talking about how awesome Lightning is and how everybody should love her, would you roll your eyes at the fact they're still hung up on FF13 or would you just start talking about how awesome she is? I'm assuming it's the former, so would it be right of me to come to you and say "What? Why are you so negative about this tweet? It's not like the whole series is gonna revolve around her forever, nevermind that it actually has for 3 years now"?

Because everybody saw through that bullshit?

When FF13 was being first promoted Lightning got tons of criticism for being a bad copy of Cloud, every render of her she was pulling the same facial expression "emo" And look at every game reaction since then, particularly Lightning Returns.

They kept on going on about how awesome she was, it was and still is completely ridiculed. One of my favourite jokes was how some people compared her to the villain from Power Rangers "AH! After 10,000 years I'm free, it's time to bring fashion to earth!" then holy shit! That's pretty much how the game ended. 

Now here's a question, 

[quote] The point I was trying to make is that this social media stuff reminds us of stuff about the franchise we don't like so obviously we don't like it

We have been joking about Sonic 06 for nearly a decade. As has the wider gaming community and media.

We have been joking about all the funny and harmlessly stupid stuff which exists in Sonic.

Why is Sega not allowed to join in on the joke? 

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Roger_van_der_weide

Or you could I dunno, point out exactly why you're worried about what apparently might happen despite having absolutely no reason to suggest it will?

My worries are, as noted in 17B:

 

I am worried that new fans may primarely like Sonic because it's funny, not be aware that Sonic can also be not funny sometimes. And Sega has less motivation to stop focusing primarely on being funny.
This, combined with the fact I'm starting to feel tired of the onslaught of the same type funnyness is concerning me.
Therefore I am conclicted on this otherwise very funny and very helpful increase in humor in Sonic media.
 


Those have no evidence, as noted in article 17B.
Desire for full evidence was not clear in initial mission assignment.
Request for evidence is still pending.

Requesting General to specify demand for evidence when asking for personal opinions and emotions.
Not every human being bases emotions and opinions on factual base.


I shall start an investigation by interviewing people who might agree with my concerns, that are
A ) A possibility that characters will no longer have a true identity but could become merely vessels for memes (Ow the Edgehog)
(This is conjecture. Evidence is stll pending)

B ) A possibility the option of a serious Sonic story might be unavaible for a long period of time.
(This is conjecture. Evidence is still pending)

C) A possibility that My person and like minded folks suffer a fatigue of humor, as some forms of humor (To wit, parody and meme) are co-depenend and require a vessel of original material to function. Ergo an overreliance on mere humor without a core experience to base humor from may lose momentum.
(This is conjecture, evidence is still pending)

I shall inform like-minded folks such as myself to give their information, so I can start producing hard evidence.
I shall interview the folks at the Facebook group, Sonic Adven....Sorry, they're not allowed? Apologies.
I shall inform the viewers of my webshow, Snic Dissected to... They don't count either?
Oh.

Well never mind then, mission abort.
I love the Sonic media! It's great!
Did you guys hear Mike Pollock say "Get a load of THIS!" on the twitter acount? That was funny.
I love this. It's great to be a Sonic fan.
I'm very proud that other companies follow Sonic twitter's example.
it's great to see Sonic finally have some sort of market leader element to him again.
 

He is saying that he doesnt understand how people seeing a twitter feed is gonna make them think the Sonic series is like that and I agree with him. 

Oh, a human message! Thanks Sonikku!

I understand your confusion.
I admit, it's very far fetched and silly.
Never the less, a gut feeling is a gut feeling. We Sonic fans can be very paranoid.
Justified or not, but it's a real feeling that has impact on how we perceive and react to events.
Especially emotional events, and humor is emotional by it's very nature.
As such, to be able to enjoy a joke, you need to be in the right mindset.

Example: Jokes about elderly people dying isn't funny when your grandmother has recently passed away. Neither is it funny when you aren't aware of the existence of elderly people, or plain uncomfortable with death in general.

Sadly, therefore our biased and possibly incorrect worries will still temper with our ability to enjoy things.

As it happens, Sonic is in an uncertain state at this moment, so it's impossible for me to look at things in their own context.

Of course then you might ask: But Roger, this isn't about your enjoyment of jokes ,this is about the future of Sonic. Is this new direction of Sonic's media healthy for Sonic?

And that queston has 2 answers:
A) Yes, this seems healthy. It clears up Sonic's repuation and may increase sales. Hooray.
B ) This might affect the quality of the Sonic experience, in so much I personally might not be able to enjoy them any longer.
Therefore Sonic is still a succes for Sega and fans, but not for me personally.

So then, it becomes bittersweet as I (may) have to sacrifice my Sonic in order for him to survive (Ergo, why I was conflicted in my original post)

This describes my feelings toward the current situation, and possible one that is shared by others, therefore giving Hogfather an insight in why people may disagree with him, even if they're not factually correct.

After all, it's not always just about evidence and facts, sometimes it's about psychology. We're humans, not robots or goverment agents. At least, most of us.
Please continue to enjoy Webber's amusing antics.


 

Edited by Roger_van_der_weide
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Then don't post something completely ridiculous then.

I thought this forum had rules about not being hostile towards others, but I guess it only applies to those who don't have a high position like you. Fine, I'll stop talking to you, since if I insulted you like you deserve right now I unlike you would get a strike. Since I don't like being insulted without deserving it, I just won't talk to you again, since I like having civil conversations without people being hostile. Goodbye.

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