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*(Critique I Feel Suits The Current Sonic Franchise)*


Chris Knopps
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"The popular way isn't always the lasting way. Fad is just one letter away from fade, and that's exactly what things do. Things fade away, that's why it's better to focus on being good rather than being popular."

"If you can be both, great! But if you have to choose one over the other, always pick good over popular. Because once people grow out of something and move onto the next popular thing, there's nothing of substance to bring them back. And the timeless message you claim to fight so hard for becomes just another passing trend to forget about."

"That's what happens when you give people nothing challenging, nothing valuable to keep coming back to. Pandering to the mainstream and knocking you on the head with messages making things less memorable. People won't come back because you give them nothing that respects them as thinking people."

"Simplifying things, making them easy to the point nobody finds it fun anymore. It doesn't matter how much content you release or how popular things are in the moment if you keep missing the original spirit of your content."

The Nostalgia Critic - Yes this is a quote from that guy.

Below render by 10chakrit of Deviantart

http://www.deviantart.com/art/What-s-there-566774734

12274433_1173600376002623_1046621955496001202_n.jpg

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Well, not much I can say about it considering how much I agree. Rather it's more interesting to see others reactions/responses to what is said. If there were things against this quote in my mind naturally I'd talk about it, but not really anything I can disagree with here.

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Feel like it's pretty obvious lol especially given the title.

In a general sense, yeah, but it would help discussion if the OP could give specifics. This can be taken in a lot of different ways considering how divisive opinions are Sonic games are.

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Ill give my thoughts on it.

I think people want a GOOD Sonic game. They dont care if its popular with the critics and something. They want it to be a game thates enjoying for them and it feel like a Sonic game. Popularity is not the goal. Even those games can be shitty. We just want a game that plays like Sonic use to play and why Sonic is memerable to alot of the people. The reason why people love Sonic games from before. They do not want to hear "we will make a good game"... just do it.

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In a general sense, yeah, but it would help discussion if the OP could give specifics. This can be taken in a lot of different ways considering how divisive opinions are Sonic games are.

Too bad we can't just jump into it then lol. On the one hand you're saying that the OP doesn't provide for any sort of super extensive or lively discussion and I agree, but on the other hand, I don't think that's what he was going for, but weh. I guess who really cares lol.

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Yeah a lot of those quotes just boil down to "be good".

Which is really just kind of obvious and meaningless, if it's left at that. Everyone thinks Sonic should "be good". Problem is no one can agree on what actually constitutes Sonic "being good". The things I value in the series may not be what the next guy values, and likewise him to the guy after him.

With that I have trouble wondering what a "good Sonic game" is. Everyone got different opinions and what I see I think ST is trying to please different groups of fans but it doesnt always work.

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I think Monkey Destruction Switch's point really puts into perspective how there's more than one facet that makes Sonic "good". You can't just say one era did everything right while the other does everything wrong; because that kind of thinking is why we're so split in the first place.

If we could look at the series' best facets without having to completely side one way or another, we'd be in a better place as a community. Now that doesn't mean we're all going to agree (some people are going to think boost games don't play too well and same to the classic gameplay but those people are wrong), but it'd bring us to a similar consensus, at least.

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I suspect the OP is implying that Sonic should return to what are considered "grand adventures" like the Adventures, Unleashed, etc. as those are supposed to be more memorable and meaningful, while the lighter, simpler, comedy stuff we have now is supposed to be shallow appealing to the masses or something. Clearly I'm making a huge assumption based on things that the OP never actually said, but I do feel like it's a safe assumption, honestly, considering how these things are usually meant in the Sonic community.

But in a sense, I don't feel it's really fair to not go into further depth to it because the usage of the quote in this context is equating "good" with that certain style of writing, which is very, very debatable. Everyone has different tastes, for one thing. For some those stories may have felt meaningful, but to others they were just melodramatic

Not to step on too many toes, but what's ironic is that maybe the reason why many of the Adventure games aren't looked upon favorably anymore is because they're actually guilty of the very thing the OP is tacitly accusing the newer releases of doing. They appeared exciting in the moment, but simply weren't good enough in many ways to stand the test of time. (And I say this as someone who truly likes and enjoys the Adventure games; heck, Sonic Adventure has one of my favorite Sonic storylines.)

I really do understand and to an extent agree with the argument that the modern games are missing something important that the pre-Colors era had. But geez, just posting that quote without explaining anything just makes too many assumptions. If you want to move past a simplistic analysis, you have to give us something more. Right now, it kinda feels as though you're treating something extremely debatable as a truism.

Words in my mouth that strike the head as they say. Well done analysis.

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 I would say that its about how you strive for popularity that matters. just putting in stuff that is popular without any substance usualy fails, when combining both it will usualy take of. Its not quality vs popularity. Its popularity and quality.

While a title may be good, if it doesnt contain content that people actualy want, it wont sell. "the popular way" is a helping hand in making sure your product is relevant to the times. But ofcourse, one would have to have a great amount of "sense" in whats actualy trending when putting these things in. Beeing able to see what will become popular and having "forsight" is key. Not everybody can do this, so for those that cant, yeah, better just aim for quality.

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 I would say that its about how you strive for popularity that matters. just putting in stuff that is popular without any substance usualy fails, when combining both it will usualy take of. Its not quality vs popularity. Its popularity and quality.

While a title may be good, if it doesnt contain content that people actualy want, it wont sell. "the popular way" is a helping hand in making sure your product is relevant to the times. But ofcourse, one would have to have a great amount of "sense" in whats actualy trending when putting these things in. Beeing able to see what will become popular and having "forsight" is key. Not everybody can do this, so for those that cant, yeah, better just aim for quality.

This is what really bothers me about Aaron Webber's current community relationship with fans. It's all about trying to make Sonic popular at the cost of quality. Like the Nostalgia Critic said, fad is just one letter away from fade and all they're doing, especially SoA and Aaron, are making Sonic a simple fad without any real substance for people asides memes, jokes, and "lol this critic said we're bad but we're good!" kind of stuff.

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This is what really bothers me about Aaron Webber's current community relationship with fans. It's all about trying to make Sonic popular at the cost of quality. Like the Nostalgia Critic said, fad is just one letter away from fade and all they're doing, especially SoA and Aaron, are making Sonic a simple fad without any real substance for people asides memes, jokes, and "lol this critic said we're bad but we're good!" kind of stuff.

Aaron has no control over the quality of the games. This is basically all he can do at this point and he's doing a fine job at it. No point in coming at him. At least people like something about Sonic now. 

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This is what really bothers me about Aaron Webber's current community relationship with fans. It's all about trying to make Sonic popular at the cost of quality. Like the Nostalgia Critic said, fad is just one letter away from fade and all they're doing, especially SoA and Aaron, are making Sonic a simple fad without any real substance for people asides memes, jokes, and "lol this critic said we're bad but we're good!" kind of stuff.

You say that as if Aaron Webber has any significant input or power over the direction of the games themselves.

All he can really do is appeal to the community and relay criticism the best that he can. And let's be real - once he took control over every official Sonic-related social media outlet, nothing except hilarity and good vibes has come from it. Nintendo and Capcom have jumped in on it from time to time. Articles from major gaming websites have been written in lieu of it. 

I mean, what exactly do you expect out of a community manager? Blaming Aaron for making Sonic popular (partially his job) at the cost of quality (Sonic Team/SEGA's job) is like blaming Nintendo's office interns for Yoshi's New Island's music.

Edited by Indigo Rush
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There is a point that's been made that the PR accounts should be doing a better job at actually promoting the games and merchandise that's out there. I honestly learn more about what's going on in the franchise here than I do from Sega themselves, which seems to have always been a problem for Sega but seems like it'd be easy to rectify through modern social media habits. I'd also say there's a conversation to be had about what the effects are of basically advertising the franchise as one huge meme, and that this isn't necessarily an attack on the fun that's come from it. I have a good time when he starts making quips at GameTrailers and Nintendo just as much as anyone else.

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The only reason I could think of him hamming up the memes and junk is because there is really nothing big enough to be worth caring about right now. And you could say Boom counts as something, but Aaron knows as well as anybody that besides new episodes, almost no one is really looking forward to that.

Edited by Azoo
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There is a point that's been made that the PR accounts should be doing a better job at actually promoting the games and merchandise that's out there. I honestly learn more about what's going on in the franchise here than I do from Sega themselves, which seems to have always been a problem for Sega but seems like it'd be easy to rectify through modern social media habits. I'd also say there's a conversation to be had about what the effects are of basically advertising the franchise as one huge meme, and that this isn't necessarily an attack on the fun that's come from it. I have a good time when he starts making quips at GameTrailers and Nintendo just as much as anyone else.

This is EXACTLY my point. I'm not talking about Aaron Webber having power/influence on the games, I'm talking about how he inspires the communities and fan base to behave and how he follows these three things religiously.

- Ow the edge

- Gotta go fishing

- MEMES!!!

My problem is the quality of the communities/fan base he mingles with and influences. His power over the audience has as much affect on the franchise as the games themselves. In a community where the only thing to offer is "hilarity" along with memes and finger pointing at people with negative criticisms, personally I'd rather have a quality community/fan base with plenty of meat to it than games from time to time because of one thing is lackluster the other makes up for it.

Right now? If you get a bad game, just go look at memes and hyuck basically. There's no real lengthy/intelligent discussion about the franchise and if you try to have said things, jokes/memes/one liners just start popping up in response.

Edited by Chris Knopps
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Granted, I don't mind a little self-deprecating humor. Done well, it can be pretty hilarious and it serves to at least humanize Sega as knowledgeable about having fucked up before. And again, I also would prefer if they stuck up for themselves more often when hacks at GameTrailers and ScrewAttack start fucking around with revisionist history because these kinds of things hurt the brand as well. It would be interesting however if they applied the concept of humor to direct promotion of stuff a la Denny's Twitter (aka best Twitter) which could probably be done with Boom episodes, Archie, and merchandise- things coming out relatively often despite the dearth of game news. And in the meantime, why not throw some more celebratory material, nostalgic throwbacks, and concept stuff at us too? Fan Art Friday's a cool thing they're doing but I'd like to see more positive representation of the games too.

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