*(Critique I Feel Suits The Current Sonic Franchise)*

[Kuzu]

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/sega-aims-to-win-back-mario-fans-with-lost-world

That Mario focus. lol

Kinda funny that the game wound up panned to the core because of being like a Mario game which so many seemingly screamed for over the years, then got it and hated it. Plus take in the fact the staff at SEGA claimed Mario to be the superior franchise then got canned because of believing this.

Gotta have faith in your own product if you expect it to sell.

The article said "Mario and other platforming fans", from the way you made it sound, you made it out like he was just say "Fuck Sonic fans, we want Mario fans"  :\

Regardless, Lost World didn't fail because it tried to appeal to other demographics, it failed because its simply not a good or structured game in the slightest. It could have the aesthetics of generaions or colors and it still would have bombed because the design and structure of the game is inherently flawed. It "appealing to Mario fans" is just one aspect of a larger problem.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Kuzu the Boloedge

[Chris Knopps]

The article said "Mario and other platforming fans", from the way you made it sound, you made it out like he was just say "Fuck Sonic fans, we want Mario fans"  :\

Regardless, Lost World didn't fail because it tried to appeal to other demographics, it failed because its simply not a good or structured game in the slightest. It could have the aesthetics of generaions or colors and it still would have bombed because the design and structure of the game is inherently flawed. It "appealing to Mario fans" is just one aspect of a larger problem.

Being honest I really do blame it on the Mario focus as more than anything that seems to be the most common critique of the game.

Also, just the fact they wanted to focus on Mario fans period was an issue in itself. It's fine to attempt drawing in various platformer crowds but to specifically make it a point to call out Mario fans out of all the platforming franchises out there was the main mistake that led to the complications and the whole overbearing "generic Mario imitation" critique.

I will admit I'm a bit biased/bigoted on this subject, but I really could do without eyeballs on random objects and worlds made out of food in Sonic games.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Chris Knopps

[Idon'tcare]

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/sega-aims-to-win-back-mario-fans-with-lost-world

That Mario focus. lol

Kinda funny that the game wound up panned to the core because of being like a Mario game which so many seemingly screamed for over the years, then got it and hated it. Plus take in the fact the staff at SEGA claimed Mario to be the superior franchise then got canned because of believing this.

Gotta have faith in your own product if you expect it to sell.

Certain parts of the Sonic fanbase is experts when it comes to demanding then hating when they get it.

I mean look at it.
They want simpler stories in their Sonic games and gets todays kind of stories which they complain is too kiddie like.
They cry for a game more like Mario and get Sonic Lost World which they complain is too much like Mario.
They want a US company to produce a Sonic game instead of Sonicteam and they get Sonic Boom... which they scream should have been made by Sonicteam so it wouldn't suck so much.

There is just no winning here.

[Chris Knopps]

Certain parts of the Sonic fanbase is experts when it comes to demanding then hating when they get it.

I mean look at it.
They want simpler stories in their Sonic games and gets todays kind of stories which they complain is too kiddie like.
They cry for a game more like Mario and get Sonic Lost World which they complain is too much like Mario.
They want a US company to produce a Sonic game instead of Sonicteam and they get Sonic Boom... which they scream should have been made by Sonicteam so it wouldn't suck so much.

There is just no winning here.

 

Gonna respond in order.

1. They wanted simpler stories, not stories with little quality and comedy only.

2. People want a Mario and Sonic crossover game, not a game where it's just Sonic in a Mario world and vice verse.

3. They expected the western branch to make an SA3 type of game, nobody expected the same of what Sonic Team had been producing but amped up to the n-th degree on comedy and further 4-10 focus. They expected more of a 1998-2008 type of game from the west.

There IS winning, there's just too much ignorance to do so really.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Chris Knopps

[Kuzu]

Being honest I really do blame it on the Mario focus as more than anything that seems to be the most common critique of the game.

Also, just the fact they wanted to focus on Mario fans period was an issue in itself. It's fine to attempt drawing in various platformer crowds but to specifically make it a point to call out Mario fans out of all the platforming franchises out there was the main mistake that led to the complications and the whole overbearing "generic Mario imitation" critique.

I will admit I'm a bit biased/bigoted on this subject, but I really could do without eyeballs on random objects and worlds made out of food in Sonic games.

I mean, I don't see what is so inherently wrong with appealing to Mario fans, especially since nobody seems to care about the opposite :\ They're both video games at the end of the day, of the same genre no less. Its like saying there is something wrong with broad appeal at its absolute base, which I really don't believe is true.

[Chris Knopps]

I mean, I don't see what is so inherently wrong with appealing to Mario fans, especially since nobody seems to care about the opposite :\ They're both video games at the end of the day, of the same genre no less. Its like saying there is something wrong with broad appeal at its absolute base, which I really don't believe is true.

...The opposite has never been brought up much to my recollection. Nobody wants Mario to appeal to Sonic fans from my knowledge, it's just people wanting Sonic to be more Mario and now sales/reviews/etc have hit rock bottom.

But this is only one part of the problem really, not the problem in its entirety as many assume.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Chris Knopps

[PandoloFox]

I think one thing is clear though, Sega does listen to fans. The problem is that they dont take the time to analyse the actual complaints and what it could mean while they probably at the same time have been listening to the loud crowd that doesnt fully understand their own complaints, but just repeats something that others have said in a oversimplified way. Since 06 we wanted more lighthearted games and we did get just that. Just that this was not what we meant when we said we wanted lighthearted games. We wanted useless characters to be gone from the story and have more focus, instead it became a point that all characters but sonic were useless which sega seemed to have listened to. Well, i can go on with this for some time but i think the point is made.

[Idon'tcare]

 

Gonna respond in order.

1. They wanted simpler stories, not stories with little quality and comedy only.

2. People want a Mario and Sonic crossover game, not a game where it's just Sonic in a Mario world and vice verse.

3. They expected the western branch to make an SA3 type of game, nobody expected the same of what Sonic Team had been producing but amped up to the n-th degree on comedy and further 4-10 focus. They expected more of a 1998-2008 type of game from the west.

There IS winning, there's just too much ignorance to do so really.

1: Huh, well, they should have been more specific then. What is SEGA going to learn from comments like "story sucks, improve gamplay plz." and "No more stories, Sonic is about running not these dumb plot lines."

2: Looks at Mario and Sonic at the Olympics games. "I think they already got several of those crossovers." But really, i had no idea what people wanted here but I doubt it was a Sonic ala Mario. I think the whole thing was more of the same old, "modern gameplay suckz, please make new Sonic games play just like the first ones, like Nintendo does with their new Mario games."

3: Could have fooled me, I was only on the SEGA forums for the first three months of the Boom reveals granted, but it seemed everyone was expecting it to be just like Generations/Colors, only with a more mature story line in it then what Sonicteam had put out. 

[Chris Knopps]

1: Huh, well, they should have been more specific then. What is SEGA going to learn from comments like "story sucks, improve gamplay plz." and "No more stories, Sonic is about running not these dumb plot lines."

2: Looks at Mario and Sonic at the Olympics games. "I think they already got several of those crossovers." But really, i had no idea what people wanted here but I doubt it was a Sonic ala Mario. I think the whole thing was more of the same old, "modern gameplay suckz, please make new Sonic games play just like the first ones, like Nintendo does with their new Mario games."

3: Could have fooled me, I was only on the SEGA forums for the first three months of the Boom reveals granted, but it seemed everyone was expecting it to be just like Generations/Colors, only with a more mature story line in it then what Sonicteam had put out. 

1. Fans HAVE been specific. SEGA did fine with Unleashed, that was pretty much what fans wanted regarding story being toned down, but then took devolution of the plot too far Colors-Now and since said title plot has been a constant complaint.

2. That's looking at it from SEGA and Iizuka's perspective, and it's an ignorant viewpoint at that. Consumers want a Mario and Sonic crossover game, not a sports related game but a main game with story/platforming where the two series combines somehow and the characters are alongside each other in some way.

3. Exactly, fans expected Sonic BOOM to have more meat to it for pre-teen to teenage audiences, instead it was an overbearingly devolved version of... I'd say SA and Heroes combined basically. Like they had an incestual child and BOOM came out of it, cause incest works that way I guess.