Could you see a SatAM/Archie game

[Blazey Firekitty]

I just thought about something, I can't see this ever happening, but it'd be weird to see a "Storybook" game where Sonic Team characters become Archie/SatAM ones.

Like Shadow becoming Scourge or Blaze becoming Sally, and Amy becoming Mina.

[Picchi]

That sounds...way too confusing, Blazey. Plus I think it'd only tick off their fans.

[Miko]

Oshima was the director of Sonic CD (And he's the one who added her in), whoever came up with the FF was not involved with the game's development.

That's irrelevant. The mangaka obviously wasn't involved in Sonic Team's developing of the game because Amy looks nothing like her game self in that manga and neither does Charmy who came MANY years later during Chaotix. SEGA noticed the character and adapted her to fit. Just like they could do with any SatAM/Archie character if they so chose.

Amy also has the distinction of actually being drawable in the Sonic style.

And Mina hasn't often been cited as looking like she came from a game? What about Bunnie? Amy was greatly redesigned so I don't ultimately buy it. They could redesign any character just like they did Amy. Heck in Amy's case you wouldn't even be able to LOOK at the two and know they shared the same moniker.

Relatively little is known about Sonic CD's development, most of what we know about the development of Sonic 2 and 3 we got from Americans who used to work at STI, but Sonic 1 and Sonic CD were made 100% in Japan. While we know a lot about Sonic's creation as a character, we know little about the development of the game, and even less about Sonic CD. From our understanding, even Tom Kalinske (Then president of SoA) thought it was a Sega CD port of Sonic 2. For all we know, Amy could have already planned for Sonic CD before she appeared in that comic.

Again I don't buy this because she looks nothing like her game counterpart and even if you wanted to shimmy away with Amy, there's no way in hell anyone would be able to get away with making that arguement for Charmy who appeared in the comics many MANY years before he appeared in Chaotix or Heroes.

[Blazey Firekitty]

That sounds...way too confusing, Blazey. Plus I think it'd only tick off their fans.

Heh, I guess you're right. I guess I get pretty strange when I think too hard about alternate universes.

[redmenace]

And Mina hasn't often been cited as looking like she came from a game? What about Bunnie?

Not really, she looks like a comic character just like any other. She looks out of place near Sonic. Bunnie looks better sometimes if we don't count the artificial limbs though.

They could redesign them yes, but I just don't see the point. Why would you want to introduce these characters if there are others that already fill their place? Poeple arealways whinning about the tons and tons of characters already.

[Flyboy Fox]

I don't think Mina looks like she could belong in the games. Quite the opposite, in fact. To me, she fits the comic style much better than I think she'd fit in the games' current style.

To be honest, I never liked her much anyway. Some people have talked about Sally being a Sue, but to me Mina is the ultimate Sue. I mean she has super-speed like Sonic, but she needs the hero himself to teach her how to use it properly, and then she's pretty and cute and she's a singer with an amazing voice too. She sounds like what every fangirl self-insert wants to be. The only thing I liked about her was her opposition to joining the Freedom Fighters. It was refreshing to see a character who openly stated it wasn't their thing. But other than that, Mina bores me to tears.

[Picchi]

Some people have talked about Sally being a Sue, but to me Mina is the ultimate Sue. I mean she has super-speed like Sonic

Read TVtropes. Just because a characters has a few common Sue traits doesn't mean they encompass a trope. I'm not saying that I was particularly fond of the idea of her having a speed angle, but in Archie there were plenty of characters who had the speed angle before she. And Amy's speed too, is above average, and like Mina she uses it to upkeep her dynamic with Sonic. The only difference was, was that Mina was a little faster and tried to use hers in a way that could constructively be used to get Sonic's attention while Amy didn't, but that's besides the point. Neither girl has gotten him from using this method and by your logic, a few common Mary-sue traits would make Amy as well as a bunch of other characters one. Amy especially, since she's not only a speed character, but mimics Sonic's basic personality traits (At trait commonly seen in copycat sues).

Also, at this point Mammoth Mogul (who "gave" her the ability, albiet through some arguable plotholes) could easily get rid of it. You can't however, get rid of Sally's sue traits, or the tropes she fills so easily since her character and dynamic with Sonic revolve around her being one. I mean for goodness sake, her current position in the book relied heavily on her falling into a Black Hole Mary Sue Trope! Sally's almost if not essentially like Haruhi Suzumiya.

But I digress. If Mina's speed is a problem, it could be nixed for a game. Simple as that.

she's a singer with an amazing voice too.

In some people's opinion. We don't see Minaenough for us to know how people would criticize her music. A lot of the time, we just see her in a concert or something, so OF COURSE the people there are going to like her!

Is this really a big deal? Practically every character's been affected negatively in the comic. That doesn't mean writers shouldn't or haven't done anything to rectify these problems. Mina would be no different, its just that they haven't really gotten to her.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Picchi

[Crystal Kingfisher]

I wouldn't mind having one, and I remember they were originally going to make one for the Genesis, it looked OK. But if they are going to do a SatAM/Archie-based Sonic game, it needs to be like an RPG or something (but not like Sonic Chronicles), and it NEEDS Ro-Becca. The Ro-Becca episode was fucking hilarious.

[Barry the Nomad]

Oof! If you want characters that would REALLY not fit in with the game designs, how about adapting the Substitute Freedom Fighters. Larry Lynx! Penelope Platypus! Cyril! Dylan! Hamlin! Arlo! It's as though they all got a little overweight by staying indoors while the rest of the cast were out fighting. Like Big the Cat's core group of friends.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Doctor Eggman

[Blazey Firekitty]

We have all forgotten the character with the most gameplay potential: The Margarine.

[Miko]

To be honest, I never liked her much anyway. Some people have talked about Sally being a Sue, but to me Mina is the ultimate Sue. I mean she has super-speed like Sonic, but she needs the hero himself to teach her how to use it properly, and then she's pretty and cute and she's a singer with an amazing voice too.

1. One of the problems with pompous wannabe writers is that they don't understand the difference between traits Mary Sues often have and the trope of Mary Sue writing. A character can have traits (as in physical qualities of a Sue and so fourth) and not contort the plot to revolve around them. Is Mina fast? Yes. But she's about as fast as Tails and what speed she does have, she can't really use. So you won't be seeing her run at ridiculously high speeds unless the writer has no freaking clue about the book. She needed Sonic to teach her, yes. But Sonic's been a key factor in Tails' developing his speed using his Tails. Not only that, but this didn't actually make them closer. It was a ploy, but it failed. That's realistic writing. A Suethor would've written Sonic to become OOC for Mina and he'd be slobering all over her by the end of the training session.

2. She sings. Mary Sue trait =/= Mary Sue trope. That and...not everyone likes her singing. She's cute, but she's not OH MY GOD I FELL IN LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT cute, like a certain princess either. I think just about all the Sonic girls besides Dulcy were designed with that inention.

She sounds like what every fangirl self-insert wants to be.

I think many fangirl self-inserts would much rather be a princess who gets a free loving bad boy hedgie to stop being a loner on missions and to go out with her (which sounds more like the angle they were taking in the earlier comics). Everyone whose a protaganists likes her, even when she's mean to Sonic. She'll be a purity Sue in the sense that she does absolutely nothing the team couldn't get along without to and yet everyone marvels over her and acts like she's God's gift to this Earth. She'll also be a bit of a purity Sue if only in the sense that she's society's standard for what a girl should be with flying colors while most girls realistically have a difficult time being this and there's no development in her ever reaching this point. Everybody will thinks she's uncharacteristically beautiful and no matter how she treats Sonic, he will always come back to her. She and the rest of the cast will over embellish her fangirlishness for Sonic and play it off to be a sweet passionate love. Meanwhile everybody else who simply marvels over Sonic in essentially the same way will get treated realistically! And for those who could've stood a better chance in getting her way and are not protected by the powers of SEGA (oh wait if she gets in a game that'd be moot) get to go Mina Mongoose and receive some kind of amnesia complex about important events that would've kept them in the running regardless of any cheap stunts said Sue would've played (this also happened to Fiona). Oh and she gets to replace Tails as the best friend. Mina failed several times in trying to impress Sonic with all the typical things most fangirls would write Sonic as being smitten with. Sally IS a Sue, while Mina essentially slapped in the face typical methods Mary Sues use and said "it doesn't work. It's not Sonic."

What ultimately helped to connect Sonic with Mina is that she herself was there for him. That and like other people said, it's not necessary to get too much into her speed at this point if you won't be adding Mammoth Mogul. That said all the game characters have Sonic like speed. Knux, Tails, Shadow, Amy, Espio..I could go on and on probably. But a good deal of the regulars, even some of those most wouldn't think of removing are pretty damn fast. I guess they're Mary Sues and we should toss them out never to return. Mina would actually fit even better there presently. That and a musician probably wouldn't kill the games as long as they don't take the focus from the action.

The only thing I liked about her was her opposition to joining the Freedom Fighters. It was refreshing to see a character who openly stated it wasn't their thing.

Only for her to go back to it in Sonic's Angels. Ian of course will never want to admit it because it means more trouble for Sallykins.

But other than that, Mina bores me to tears.

K. She's not going to be for everyone. Then again, Mina's got more going for her in terms of personality than some of the characters already there. I don't think the games even care about personality as much as they do the gameplay. As long as she's capable of connecting with the characters, I don't really care.

Not really, she looks like a comic character just like any other.

A lot of people have disagreed with you, but I'll ask first: Why?

Bunnie looks better sometimes if we don't count the artificial limbs though.

Of course there's nothing about the Sonic games that say cyborgs can't exist. Maybe they weren't made by Robotnik, but they can still exist in Sonic's world. Chuck did say he'd been making it originally to help people with physical handicaps. So it could've been applied to the same effect.

They could redesign them yes, but I just don't see the point. Why would you want to introduce these characters if there are others that already fill their place?

In what way? Frankly I'm not all THAT interested in the game characters. Its not that people couldn't get into them I guess. But on a personal level there's probably a disconnect. That and I'd like more reocurring female protaganists besides Amy just like we have more than one reocurring male protaganist. I'm not too into Amy. She's ok but I don't feel a very deep connection with the character. Blaze's personality isn't exactly my favorite and what're the odds she'll just pop out of her zone every game? It's already redundant to embarassing porprotions that Knux leaves his post to venture out with Sonic. Cream is also a no because she's even more the purity Sue than Sally. Her description even labels her the girl nobody can hate.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Miko

[azoo]

Mina is truly the only character that will fit into the game continuity properly, especially since she has that band (as shown in issue #201) from Sonic 1's concept art (yes, featuring the chicken and the rabbit and the monkey).

She runs fast like Sonic, can sing and has a band (Sonic = sound, no?), and also loves adventure and action.. generally her style just mends together with the series very well (not trying to say she should be Sonic's lover or something... absolutely not, just trying to say she'd fit more as the lead female character than Sally by a long shot, and heck, even surpasses Amy as being the better lead female).

[Picchi]

Of all the non-game characters I could potentially see taking part in the series I must admit that Mina's the only one I can think of so far who'd not only fit, but fit flexibly. Sonic could just as easily go back to Oshima's model of being a globe trotting party animal in a band, as the jist of the storyline wouldn't change much. That, or Mina could work in future chao features due to her babysitting skills.

[Miko]

While I COULD see Cream playing with chao, I don't want to see that Mary Sue if I don't have to anymore. XP

[Picchi]

I think Cream was more or less an advertisement for Sonic X. She may occasionally come as an unlockable, but SoJ hasn't really given her much a role in their games since the show ended.

But even aside from that, when you compare Mina to Cream, Mina seems like the kind of character that more could get done with, and unlike Cream could probably connect with more characters.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I think Cream was more or less an advertisement for Sonic X. She may occasionally come as an unlockable, but SoJ hasn't really given her much a role in their games since the show ended.

She played an important role in the first Rush. Admittedly, I can't think of anything of note she's done since then.

[Picchi]

She played an important role in the first Rush. Admittedly, I can't think of anything of note she's done since then.

Sonic X was still pretty fresh at the time Rush came out and IIRC, was still airing, so that doesn't really count.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Picchi

[Blazey Firekitty]

Sonic X was still pretty fresh at the time Rush came out and IIRC, was still airing, so that doesn't really count.

Didn't Advance 2 and Sonic Heroes come before Sonic X, though?

[Picchi]

Didn't Advance 2 and Sonic Heroes come before Sonic X, though?

IIRC, Heroes came after Sonic X aired but even if the show hadn't been released prior to them, by the time Advance 2 and came out, Sonic X was already in production. So it can still be argued that Cream was in games with the intention of advertising the cartoon which would come sometime later.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Picchi

[Blazey Firekitty]

IIRC, Heroes came after Sonic X aired but even if the show hadn't been released prior to them, by the time Advance 2 and came out, Sonic X was already in production. So it can still be argued that Cream was in games with the intention of advertising the cartoon which would come sometime later.

Hmm, strange. Seems reasonable, though.

[Adamis]

Naka said that Cream was created for Sonic X. Her appearance in various games was to promote the show.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Naka said that Cream was created for Sonic X. Her appearance in various games was to promote the show.

Weird.O_o Seems odd that her role in the actual show wasn't bigger, in light of that.;;

[nuckles87]

They could totally do a SatAm/Archie game. Wouldn't be terribly hard. All it would really require is a change in setting. Sonic running through the Great Forest, Robotropolis, and Angel Island instead of Emerald Coast and Green Hill. The other characters would be the supporting cast in the story and the NPCs in the levels or adventure fields (adventure field areas would be preferable to me).

Of course, Archie's universe, with it's much more game like Sonic, would be preferable over the SatAm counterpart as far as the games go.

[Miko]

Naka said that Cream was created for Sonic X. Her appearance in various games was to promote the show.

A little ironic how they can put in characters from a cartoon show in Japan and a manga (that is nothing like the games) to promote them but they can't do that for western characters.

[Toby]

Oh, they CAN. They just don't WANT to. Big difference. =p