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Dude, wheres my frog?! (Bigs fishing levels)


Rey Skywalker-Ren

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I want to talk about them a little. I use to hate them when I first play this game. I did because I didnt know what I was doing and also I didnt have alot of peticence. Now that I play them again and I start to love them a little when I play. So here I am talking about them!

This part controls a little like a normal arcade fishing game. Ive played fishing games before a little. However its not torunoment... this is fishing not only for fun but fishing for your friend. All you do it throw the line to froggy and and when he bites you put the line away from him and you roll the control stick and press A or if your doing DX then press whatever lettter you put for A and move the line to you. You might have to let go of the A button to not put stress on the line. When the line breaks..... well you lose a life. And you have to start over.

Yes it is fustrating when you lose life on this one but the more you get it the more easy it becomes. I feel that when when I first play but now it is very easy to where I love it. Why do I love it... well....

It is relaxing

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I find the stages very relaxing to play with. Unlike some of the other alternite gameplays such as Silver and his ball puzzles, Knuckles emerald hunting from Sonic Adventure 2 or the driving stages from Sonic 06.... this gamplay feels like your relaxing drinking a ice cold kirin (its a japanese beer) while putting your feet on the leg rester thingy.  Bigs fishing stages do not make you think so much. You dont need to beat a clock. You dont need to collect rings to stay alive. You dont get points off if you do the stage in 20 minutes. Time doesnt matter here. Your only being judge on if you can get Froggy and in the replays how much weight in fish you have. 

Heck even the music for the stages is relaxing. This is emerald coast:

Heres Icecap though its used for Sonic stages to

 

I wont link twinkle park sense it is the same. But still the start makes it sound fun and then it goes into relaxing and then goes into tense when your trying to save your friend from the Hot Shelter and from Chaos 6 which I will go to my next point...

there is character development in the gameplay

500px-froggy-model-render---sonic-advent

its true. well I think it is. For me playing this game the 2nd time make me see the development in the gameplay. The whole story is about Big the cat trying to save Froggy. I mean yeah to alot of people it is dumb and its true that his story in Sonic Adventure is bascially: dude wheres my frog. But to me its more then that. Theres a close friendship a bond between these characters and when you go through the levels you can really tell Big cares alot for Froggy (and I think that its soo sweet).

Even when you play Hot Shelter its tense because your trying to save your frog friend from Eggmans base after the robot steals it from you. And when you get to Chaos 6.... your not fighting him.... your fighting to free your frog friend from him. Not to bring my personal headcanon but in the scene where Sonic comes and offers his help..... I think in the end that Sonic repects Bigs fighting ablities and his willing to save his friend. But thats just me

All and all it really does feel like you are playing as a character who though they dont have a mission to do, they want to protect there best buddy. You can really start to feel for that character and I love gameplays like that. The fishing stages may be hard and they dont fit a Sonic game... that is true... but this gameplayh as the more personality in it then the other alternate gameplays.

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I can't say I'm a fan of Big's gameplay, but it is kind of interesting to look at it as a way to take a break from the high-speed action of most of the other characters and just chill out for a while. Considering the chao gardens are a similarly low-stress diversion and they have plenty of fans, I wonder if Big wouldn't be so hated if his gameplay was optional too, a bonus for players who wanted to relax with some virtual fishing rather than something you had to play through if you wanted to see the end of the story.

And while I don't like his gameplay, I do really like Big as a character. A lot of people dismiss him outright because they don't like his gameplay, and because a big dopey cat looking for his frog isn't "cool". But part of being cool is not caring about being cool, and that's exactly why I think Big is cool. Big's never trying to be something he's not; he's just a chill dude who loves to fish, going out to help his froggy buddy.

oh yeah i wonder that to if it wasnt force to go to the final story would people love it more. no ones force to go to the chao garden (unless they want all the emblems) and everyone loves it.

and yeah thats why i like him to. Big the cat isnt a dimwit or a retard. just someone who is simple minded who doesnt give a damn about compicated stuffs. in a cast of badasses.... hes chill and thats what makes him awesome. 

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I can't say I'm a fan of Big's gameplay, but it is kind of interesting to look at it as a way to take a break from the high-speed action of most of the other characters and just chill out for a while. Considering the chao gardens are a similarly low-stress diversion and they have plenty of fans, I wonder if Big wouldn't be so hated if his gameplay was optional too, a bonus for players who wanted to relax with some virtual fishing rather than something you had to play through if you wanted to see the end of the story.

I can tell you it would've been great if you could fish in the Chao Garden.

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I don't quite care for Big's fishing stages, and it honestly has nothing to do with how divergent it was from the other play styles.  I feel like that portion of the game was badly developed and designed.  The most annoying problem, which I feel has probably costed me irretrievable hours of my life on its own, is probably the fact that when your lure is in the water, the X axis will invert for seemingly no reason.  So, you see Froggy coming in close and you want to put the lure closer to him so he'll see it and... suddenly, the line goes in the opposite direction of the way you're tilting the analogue stick.  If that's not bad enough, you'll also find yourself wrestling with other fish when all you want is Froggy.  And sometimes both the fish and Froggy will be heading towards your fishing line and they'll almost bite it and then turn around at the last minute as if to say "fuck it!"  The camera angles are also an absolute mess.  Ice Cap in particular is frustrating because of how little visibility you have and how little space you have to work.

I wouldn't mind the stages so much if they were programmed a little better, but as is, I constantly dread replaying SA1 simply because of Big.

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"Sweet! what does mine say. Dude! what about mine" :P

I personaly never had much of an opinion on Big. His story and gameplay ended quickly so i didnt get much time to figure him out. And the gameplay didnt feel that horrible to me. Fishing is about patience anyway, i knew what i was getting into and prepared to relax while playing. If you are in a hurry, not getting it right immediately will be frustrating. And even if the programming wasnt the best, it was still playable. Probably not the most fun i had with that game, but im not into fishing games to begin with.

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I really don't like Big's levels. Catching Froggy nowadays is fine and everything but anyone who has ever gotten all 130 emblems in SA1 will know how much of a pain his A missions can get. It's not fun at all trying to catch a huge, powerful fish that keeps tugging away for over 10 minutes only to find out it's only 1500g and you're looking in the wrong spot, or that you don't have all the lure upgrades required to spawn a big enough fish.

Another one of the main reasons I really don't like Big in SA1 is that when I first played this game as a kid, his levels kept me from progressing for over 6 months because I had no idea how to do anything in them. I remember wondering why the fishing levels were in the game at all because they didn't fit with me at all. Furthermore, navigating around the adventure fields as Big felt even slower and annoying to do than any other character. Walking up small hills in the Mystic Ruins at the speed of slow sure is fun.

Now, Big isn't a bad character at all (Just look him in Sonic Heroes and the comics) but he's definitely my least favourite out of everyone in SA1. His badly-designed, alien gameplay mechanics ruined the experience for me not only when I first played the game around 13 years ago but also when I played it years later and had to endure all those terrible A missions.

Then I came to the conclusion Big was probably made to have those levels just to try and get people interested in SEGA Bass fishing or something.

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But speaking about fishing. A place where i think it would work out realy well is in the chao garden. Getting items for your chao that can exclusively be attained by fishing it up would be interesting. And if you give a chao enough items from the fishing area, the chao might pick up the skill of fishing itself.

Edited by PandoloFox
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I can understand your points here, and it's nice that some can find an appreciation for Big's levels, but as it stands I'm not a fan.

My main gripe with Big's levels is that they don't really feel intuitive. I've never played a fishing game before, and going from high-speed platforming to fishing was a bit of a shock. The game barely tells you what you're doing...it just about tells you the basic controls, but in terms of the best strategy to hook in the good fish / froggy, you mostly have to fiddle with the buttons to work out what's best. It took me years to realise that quickly moving the analog stick and pressing A is the way to guarantee a bite from Froggy! For over ten years I couldn't progress past Twinkle Park because I simply didn't know how to lure Froggy in, which is especially frustrating in hindsight as I can get him easily now.

My second problem is the obvious - that Big's section is compulsory for completion of the main story. I see how Big may have been intended as a relaxing break from the fast-pace action, but when you're playing his levels just for the sake of getting through them I feel he's anything but. It also doesn't help that Big himself doesn't play much of a role in the story itself (aside from Froggy holding a Chaos emerald and Chaos' tail).

That said, I would welcome an up-to-date Big fishing game in future Sonic titles, as long as its an optional distraction, especially as it could be quite a humorous nod back to Sonic Adventure.

Edited by Buizel
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I don't really have much of a problem with Big's fishing mode. I may have complained if they were forced in between Sonic levels, but Big had his own separate campaign mode. Unless you really wanted the final boss, he was an optional bonus rather than an enforced handicap. I remember struggling to get into first time round because, as said before, it wasn't exactly made clear how you were meant to lure Froggy or a fish onto your rod. Once I got past that obstacle however, it was simple enough to get through.

My problem isn't really so much the fishing element of Big's story mode as much as everything else being kinda undeveloped. There's still a bit of platforming involved, and Big isn't really fun in that area. He's a bit TOO slow and could have done with a some sort of effective attack move like his Heroes body slam. He doesn't have any mini games and not a great amount of Adventure Mode is to his advantage exploring wise.

I feel his levels could have done with more development outside just being a fishing pool as well. Most of them are actually filled with leftover bits of routes and exploration, but you don't need to enter them, it's like the developers feared you would be too exasperated by the time you get the fishing area. Hot Shelter is the only exception, and even that has lots of leftover areas. It's a real shame, because, like some of the other characters, limiting things to just his gimmick makes Big's levels sometimes feel more like a mini game than a developed level. The boss was also ridiculously anti climatic as well. I feel a cool scenario could have been made out of Chaos resisting Big and thus trying to pull Froggy out of a moving area, but alas.

I also feel Big was let down a bit by the limited cutscenes. From SA2 onwards, the animation was more refined and you could get little humorous details inside (as shown by his cameos in said game). SA1's automated animations limited Big's comic relief, which could have saved his character a little.

Edited by E-122-Psi
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I hated his gameplay then and I still find myself hating the gameplay today.

Fishing just isn't me and when something I dislike is made mandatory to win I get massively aggressive about it. Its no secret I just powered through Big's entire game section in one go just to get it over with.

The music was okay and even good, but good music doesn't save Big from having the worst gameplay in a Sonic game so far along with the weakest story line ever to grace a Sonic character. 

 

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Not crazy about Big's levels, but they've never really been a challenge for me. Dunno if that's just dumb luck or skill, lol.

But I agree with what you're saying, Big actually had a pretty noble story. For a silly cat who seems to spend most of his time fishing and laying around, to actually leave his quiet home and embark on a life-threatening journey is pretty honorable, it says a lot about Big and his character. I think how Big feels about his friends (Froggy, in this case) can kind of relate to how Sonic feels about his. It seems like they're both always willing to go out of their way and give their all to bring them back home safely, no matter the cost.

Also, I've always liked Big. Makes me kind of sad to see people hate on him. He's just a big teddy bear...well, cat.

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Hoo boy, a Big's SA1 gameplay topic, eh?

I personally never thought much of fishing in a video game. It all boils down to patience with waiting for the fish to strike, and then having enough patience and the proper timing to reel in the fish with reeling it in without breaking the line and thus losing the catch.  I played Ocarina of Time's fishing minigame, and only did it for the sidequest reward of a Golden Scale and a piece of heart then I just abandon it.

But then Sonic Team implemented that gameplay choice in a Sonic game, a game series pretty much renowned for it's speed and moderate reaction-type of gameplay if you want to clear the stages fast and effectively. To say it was polarizing sums it up pretty well, and while I do find Big's stages pathetically short once you get the hang of the fishing controls, it's not that difficult to breeze through them either. (Unless you're going for the B/A mission requirements).

But thing is, naturally most people who want to finish the stage as quickly as possible aren't going to even try and get a good grasp of how Big's gameplay in the stages actually works, and their reasons for hating it are justified. It's a pace-breaker, he moves slowly, and the reward for fishing for other fishes besides Froggy is non-existant unless you're doing the B and A missions, to repeat that.

I do agree however, that the music associated with Big is pretty easy-going and relaxed to adjust to the character, like his version of Emerald Coast, his theme song 'Lazy Days', and the Fish-reeling music. That's pretty nice to listen to.

Also, I've always liked Big. Makes me kind of sad to see people hate on him. He's just a big teddy bear...well, cat.

I really like Big's character as well, Peridot. Sure I think his voice could have been less stereotypically dopey-sounding that it really makes people think he's mentally handicap, but his story while not really deep or as emotionally driven as say Tails or Gamma by comparison, he's just setting out to retrieve his frog friend and figure out what's wrong with him.

Kind of a shame that Big barely has had any real interaction with some of the characters in the games, it's mostly just him talking to himself or to Froggy when he briefly holds on to him, but at least later games gave him more screentime with the other characters that really shows his caring side towards them and that while not the brightest, he really does have his heart in the right place and will jump into action when nessecary.

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I always really had fun with Big's staged in SA1, and they were the only levels I could fully play on a broken Dreamcast copy of the game, so I experienced him in the original and GCN version before everyone else. It's been many years since I last played the game in it's entirety, but Big's levels were always relaxing and never stressed me out. If anything they de-stressed me from more frustrating stages in the game, like Amy's levels, those were stressful and frustrating... The only things about his stages I found weird was the controls while trying to reel in, but that's really just a nitpick. I always liked Big as a character too, he's just too innocent and nice to dislike!

Reading this thread makes me wanna go back and play through his story again, Emerald Coast and...whatever the stage with the Egg Carrier aquarium was, were really interesting with their secrets and I was so amazing first time playing how the levels progressed.

I cannot express myself well through words, but I always liked Big and his gameplay and never had anything against him at all. Amy's stages pissed me off, though. >:c

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I think that Big being kinda alienating and not conventional to the rest of the story and characters was kinda the whole point, he was an unlikely hero. He didn't actively join the feud with Eggman and Chaos, he was dragged into it when his friend got caught in the middle. He was the weird guy that wasn't really part of the heroes. Heroes followed a similar idea, albeit developing on it a bit more and having him join other characters caught in the fiasco and thus bonding with the cast a bit more. I kinda feel it's a shame he didn't appear prominently in many later titles afterwards because of this, it was a cute dynamic (though I'll give credit to Archie, they're making a decent attempt at following from it). He was the guy minding his own business and just wanted his own peaceful life, at the same time, he's not resentful or unwilling to anyone else in this big mess he's caught in and is able to pair with others quite cooperatively. He makes a great big brother type as well, look at how he treats Cream in Heroes.

The games did continue making fun of Big being the 'not really part of this game' guy of the series with their cameos though. You have to wonder how he got caught into the events of SA2 and Secret Rings to keep appearing everywhere. XD

There was one cute almost philosophical moment from Big near the end of the game when he's talking to Froggy in the middle of danger.

"If something happens now, there's no point to my rescuing you. I don't know who would bother to save us BOTH."

Big seems aware he's insignificant to the mixture and probably no one cares about his plight, which makes it all the more touching when Sonic agrees to help him get Froggy just after hearing he was his friend.

I really like Big's character as well, Peridot. Sure I think his voice could have been less stereotypically dopey-sounding that it really makes people think he's mentally handicap, but his story while not really deep or as emotionally driven as say Tails or Gamma by comparison, he's just setting out to retrieve his frog friend and figure out what's wrong with him.

I feel it's a shame Kyle Herbert hasn't been given more opportunities to voice Big since the cast change. From what we've heard, he emphasises a bit more on the mellowness of Big's personality, rather than the 'duh duh idiot' part.

Edited by E-122-Psi
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