What defines the post Unleashed era to you?

[Diogenes]

Clever in the sense of making use of the Werehog gimmick. I really liked how they styled a commercial after a horror movie flick and combined CG live action. That....doesn't happen anymore.

I wonder if they can even afford to do stuff like that at this point...

[Kuzu]

I wonder if they can even afford to do stuff like that at this point...

They have an entire Arcade market in Japan they get their money from, Sega's got plenty of money.

Now Sonic Team, I'm not too sure about...

[Soniman]

They have an entire Arcade market in Japan they get their money from, Sega's got plenty of money.

Now Sonic Team, I'm not too sure about...

theye still sega owned so I asume so

[Kuzu]

Ya know, that's actually got me thinking too; how much budget does the average Sonic game cost to make? As in game development, marketing, all of that shit. Does Sega provide them with the budget.

[Dee Dude]

How does colours, Generations and unleashed not have those things? Granted Unleashed has a huge problem with the werehog.

But my god this sounds like propeganda from a splinter group fanbase if people seriously don't think that the games were getting better had more effort put into them with each incarnation.

As for the 'used to mean something' part... forgive the pun here but what does that even mean? No really. It sounds like something someone yells when they're complaining about the good old days as opposed to actually debating or measuring something tangible.

Splinter group fanbase? I'm not even going to ask...

Ok the "mean something" part obviously came out wrong and wasn't the right thing to say. It was clearly ignorant of me to think that Colors,Generations,or Unleashed didn't have heart or effort.

All I'm saying is that I thought that the Modern era just doesn't have the same enjoyable feel as the Adventure era in my opinion, both eras have their pros and cons. I could care less about the Classic era in case you were thinking about that. The Modern era just feels so limited because aside from characters and story,

There just isn't much replay value in games like Colors and Lost World compared to games like SADX and SA2B aside from the few mini games and occasional multiplayer. Not to mention the modern games can get stale for while. It doesn't always have to be the basic formula with only Sonic with a few gimmicks every now and then, quality is always more important but there's nothing wrong with a few features and characters now and then.

 Look, I'm not that guy ok? I'm not trying to sound like the typical whiny Sonic fanboy, I'm stating what i feel needs to be said of what I think.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Dan-Dude

[Bolt]

I'm surprised how 'love it or hate it' the opinions feel in here. I guess I'm one of the few who'd had no real fun with the latest games, and I don't feel them to be improving at all, if anything, just relying way too much on playing safe and nostalgic, but I'm that weirdo who absolutely genuinely loves Shadow's game and Sonic 06. inb4 "burn the witch!"

[azoo]

I just want a genuine game with a lot of content and heart.

I don't need it to be exactly like one era or another. The special part of Unleashed was how much soul was put into it and how much content it gave me, and there was barely anything like it as it's precedent (though it did have a tone and feel that resembled bits and bobs of classic and Adventure things). It was almost all-new in art style and presentation, and still managed to satisfy me in ways proceeding games with less stupid ideas failed to do.

Give me great gameplay any day (please, I mean that's the minimum requirement Sega), but if it gives no way to resonate with me for longer than 2-3 hours then I'm not quite getting my $60's worth.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Azoo

[KHCast]

Playing it safe. Ever since Unleashed, that's all I've really got from the games. Even boom as radically different as it tried to be from a gameplay perspective was as simplistic and generic as it could be. there's just no ambition anymore, and it's disheartening to see.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Playing things safe is definitely what I would describe. It's not that they're apathetic (which may be somewhat true), but because after all their previous screw ups, they're more paranoid than anything. And granted, it's kept them safe, but this safety has come at the cost of a lot less energy in many people's experience compared to previous games as others find them lacking in replay value after Unleashed.

And for those who actually like this direction and questioning other people's disappointments, I'm pretty sure you've had this very same sentiment at the other end of the spectrum. No, I'm not talking about ShTH or Sonic 06. But for whatever reasons you have, a number of fans have expressed the very attitude towards popular games like SA2. Is it really that hard to see things from the other side's perspective when they're not enjoying this current direction? Because the way I look at everyone's attitude, whether for or against current Sonic, people are coming off as self-absorbed over their desired tastes. It's less "Does it work and how?" and more "If I don't like it, it shouldn't exist" or "If I like it, then this is what we should have for Sonic." (Note the emphasis on "I" and "we" there, and you'll see what I mean)

Edited December 17, 2015 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Komodin]

Yeah, I may not have many problems with the current direction of the series--although a change of pace would be rather nice to have--but I would never insinuate that those those who aren't digging it are somehow in the wrong. Indeed, that's just being unnecessarily selfish and tunnel-visioned, and we rrreally don't need any of that.

[Clewis]

 For me, one of the defining traits of this franchise is how terribly inconsistent it is, and it's a trait that I feel is still apparent even after Unleashed.

Going from Colors to Generations to Sonic 4 Episode 2 to Lost World to Rise of Lyric, this series is still a roller coaster ride when it comes to its general sense of quality. I know some of these games were developed under different people, but there still needs to be some sense of quality control when it comes to products that are released under a shared name. Having to be cautiously optimistic every time a new title is announced has just gotten old at this point, and it's one of the main reasons why I only maintain a casual interest in the series compared to when I was younger.

Though I won't lie, there are some consistent qualities found in the current period of games that I really like, but that's only because Sonic Team is full of talented artists and musicians. Unfortunately I can't say the same about their programmers and game designers.

Clever in the sense of making use of the Werehog gimmick. I really liked how they styled a commercial after a horror movie flick and combined CG live action. That....doesn't happen anymore.

I pretty sure the only reason we got that in the first place was because of how unusually large Unleashed's budget was for a Sonic game. I mean, Unleashed also got a promotional theatrical short, which is something I'm still surprised about thinking back on it, and an entirely new graphical engine developed both for the game itself and for the expectation of Sega's general use in the future.

Maybe it's because of the lukewarm response Unleashed received (didn't it get lower scores than 06 is some places?), but it seems like Sega isn't that keen on pumping as much money into Sonic-related projects anymore. The Boom sub-series appears to be the sole exception and even though the show and comics were doing alright, I can just imagine their reaction after seeing both Rise of Lyric and Shattered Crystal fall right on their faces.

[Kuzu]

Boom was like the last thing they truly put something resembling an effort in....and then that game tanked too :\ Now granted, I know it was more because of poor communications between the developers, but still. The only good thing we got out of it is a admittedly decent cartoon show. To be honest, I don't blame them for not pouring as much money into Sonic-related projects anymore, because for some godforsaken reason, whenever something about this series attempts to be ambitious, it falls flat on its fucking face almost every time. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest is more or less what we've been getting either. 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Kuzu the Boloedge

[TearForFear]

What defines the post Unleashed era to you?

 The birth of youtube commenters like Al Jerico.

[azoo]

Which contributes nothing to the discussion other than getting people riled up about other people, so don't do this please.

[Nepenthe]

Boom was like the last thing they truly put something resembling an effort in....and then that game tanked too :\ Now granted, I know it was more because of poor communications between the developers, but still. The only good thing we got out of it is a admittedly decent cartoon show. To be honest, I don't blame them for not pouring as much money into Sonic-related projects anymore, because for some godforsaken reason, whenever something about this series attempts to be ambitious, it falls flat on its fucking face almost every time. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest is more or less what we've been getting either. 

Then the problem is Sega. It would be one thing if Sonic Team was the only one messing up. But when you've got a range of developers with provable skills and talented people like Sonic Team, BioWare, DIMPS, and people from Naughty Dog unable to deliver on larger projects over time, then that speaks to nothing but severe corporate mismanagement. And it's not like Sega is a particularly bright cookie when it comes to managing their assets, nor is it like we just didn't have one of the higher ups come out and apologize to us. Sega is honestly the running theme here.

[Ripe]

Sonic only, zero attempts at storytelling (and even when they try to do that, there just isn't enough depth), instead focusing on jokes and while they can be funny, there isn't any substance to it. Playing on nostalgia with Generations, Sonic 4 and Lost World. Game quality has been good but there would have been so many easy ways to give more content. I mean, both Colours and Generations can be beaten in under 4 hours (and they costed 60€ at release) and while side stuff adds replay value, I would have like to have more content in the main stuff. Wisps, which honestly could just be gone.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

 Lack of competence. 

In the past Sonic Team has been able to make great games such as Unleashed and also from the beginning, building on a gameplay that made people fall in love with Sonic in the first place. Now they spend so much time trying to appeal to peoples nostoilga that they forgot how to make quality games. Examples?

Sonic 4. They did the whole project needlemouse thing to say to people "yo dudes we aint gonna add these shitty ass characters in this game". And they ripped zones from Sonic 1 and 2. Dont you love us Sonic fans? DO YOU FUCKING LOVE US NOW??  Before anyone says anything I like Sonic 4. But they completly miss the point of a true sequal to Sonic 3 and Knuckles. And I mean completly. It would have been great if it was sold as its own game but as a classic. nah Sonic Team... we aint stupid.

Sonic Generations. Again I love this game but with this they spend more time with nostoliga then they did making the game a good quality game. The whole game is based on "remember this zone? hur hur". 

Also enough with the bad jokes. This is a all around series yes but the jokes are getting old.

They have been doing this for sometime ever sense Unleashed. I love all of the modern games but damn they are so incomptent in what the fans want Im suprised ST can please anyone. 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mikyeong

[RawEdge]

A total lack of passion, excitement, vision and spirit, this now feels like an average kids show than what Sonic used to represent.

Sonic as the only playable character, instead of forcing a lot of boring tasks to extend the game life they should include other characters that can be played in the same stages as Sonic but with their own abilities and story.

 

Awful story, also terrible characterizations, small scope and terrible jokes as well.

 

Polished controls and almost no bugs (except for RoL) but at the expense of making the games not as fun to play as before or relying too much in boring gimmicks like the Color Powers.

 

Orchestal music, but I think the rock suit the series much better, the orchestal music was only used for final bosses and critical moments in the game, they should leave it that way.

 

Lack of mini games wich can come in the form of kart racing, Tornado stages, sea vehicles stages, Chao Garden, etc.

 

Cool and fun boss fights (except for Sonic Generations), recycling bosses or making them extremely predictable and easy just screams lazyness.

[Badnik Mechanic]

A total lack of passion, excitement, vision and spirit

Passion. Vision. Spirit.

Words which get used a lot, yet nobody can quantify.

[Sean]

Many past games have had more real-life context and insight into their development process shown off than modern ones. Stuff like the development blogs for Unleashed, Sonic Team's trips to South America during the making of SA1, and various interviews of devs' inspirations and whatnot are all things of the past. We don't see any effort on Sega's part to let the fans in on what goes on during development, or even after the game is released. Where are all of the interviews with SLW's director, musicians, concept artists, and level designers talking about what went on in their heads as they designed the game? I miss that a metric fuckton, and I think the majority of people on the forums do as well, whether they enjoy the current games or not.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Are people even trying to understand each other, or are we just gonna mock people with the attitude of "You're wrong for (not) liking what I (don't) like?"

Because that seems to be the attitude towards those who have actually been clear over their thoughts. People who like the game enjoy the atmosphere while others don't; people think the vision is lacking and all over the place (seriously, how in the fuck do you even defend this when we've had this fucking problem since ShTH?!?!), while others enjoy what came from it; others are draw in whe others are drawn away, etc.

Like, what's being lost in communication here?

[Nepenthe]

Passion. Vision. Spirit.

Words which get used a lot, yet nobody can quantify.

Passion and spirit are interchangeable words to describe a person or a group of persons that is simultaneously dedicated and excited about a goal, hobby, or culture. Signs of passion and spirit within the context of producing a video game may include but are certainly not limited to: personal introductions of the personalities and lives key team players, completely irrelevant and superfluous discussion about the underlying concepts of a goal's concepts and development, direct reference gathered from a person's real life or any surroundings that personally interest them, an understanding of contextually-appropriate allusions to make for interesting marketing and/or easter eggs, humor that is based in context and/or turned on the self without being self-deprecating, etc.. For a real world example of passion/spirit in video gaming on part of the developer, see any E3 Nintendo Direct. 

Vision is a term that means a vivid mental image or anticipatory feeling that a person or group of persons possesses of the end result of a single goal or a long-term goal. The notability of a person's vision is dependent upon their competence at completing the task coupled with the task's relative difficulty of being completed. For example, an able-bodied person who sweeps the floor as a daily chore has less "vision" at this task in comparison to a person undergoing physical therapy whose end goal is to be able to get up and sweep the floor on their own. In the context of producing a video game, a professional developer who wants to produce a very specific game with "large-scale" or "epic" features (including but not limited to: set pieces to augment the narrative or feeling of specific moments, miles-long landscapes for the player to move around in, and characters that are specifically defined and personalized through their actions and dialogue) can be considered more visionary than a developer of similar or greater magnitude who instead decides to produce a reskinned Tetris game.

Please note that none of these terms indicates what the eventual outcome of any goal will be. Passionate and visionary people can take on challenges that are out of their range of abilities or scope. However, this in turn does not mean passion/spirit and having a vision are negative attributes to bring to any project, as people are emotional beings and empathize with people who are excited about something that they are attempting to achieve, and thus they will be more willing to buy into the product. See also: hype.

There, I just quantified these words to some degree and saved this thread undue arguing about a relatively throwaway remark.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Nepenthe

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Are people even trying to understand each other, or are we just gonna mock people with the attitude of "You're wrong for (not) liking what I (don't) like?"

Because that seems to be the attitude towards those who have actually been clear over their thoughts. People who like the game enjoy the atmosphere while others don't; people think the vision is lacking and all over the place (seriously, how in the fuck do you even defend this when we've had this fucking problem since ShTH?!?!), while others enjoy what came from it; others are draw in whe others are drawn away, etc.

Like, what's being lost in communication here?

hey people like what they want to like. i do admit that part is very annoying.... but when a view is mainstream some people will try there hardest to defend there points it because they think they should agree with mainstream. 

Passion. Vision. Spirit.

Words which get used a lot, yet nobody can quantify.

dont forget about "potential".

[Idon'tcare]

Boom was like the last thing they truly put something resembling an effort in....and then that game tanked too :\

I always figured it tanked thanks to the main office of SEGA deciding to screw over Big Red Button by changing console system to one that couldn't handle the chosen game engine... You'd think they'd have learned something after 06 got fubared by their impatience.

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

Post

ok... Now how about the people who keep saying this actually word how this applies to Sonic along with some kind of comparable example to a previous game so we knew exactly what they mean?

Just that whilst the last year was pants, does everyone really think that since 2008 - 2013, half a decade, the series has not had any vision, passion or spirit. I point to the Generations and colours megathread for grand examples that nobody believes a 5-6 year span was this.

Fuck, look at all the effort and passion that went into Boom before SOJ made that exclusive deal and the project went to hell on a Wii U basket.

So far there's a lot of amazingly throw away remarks and words being used and nobody is bothering to explain how Colours lacks vision, or passion... Since when has anyone ever seriously claimed that colours lacked that and it be seen as a common or recognised issue with the game?