Is there any merit to a "mature" Sonic story?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

10 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Does anyone really even care about any sort of romance among the cast?

as for most people: unless its sonaze then... nah. ;p

[RaceProUK]

7 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Does anyone really even care about any sort of romance among the cast?

I think it can be fun if done right, but I won't miss it if it's not there.

[DaddlerTheDalek]

5 hours ago, Vertekins said:

I don't really have anything against the subject of romance being incorporated into a game because as far as I'm concerned, it's no lesser an avenue to explore character interactions than something like friendship.

It's the execution that is the point of contention. Not the concept.

Same here.

[RappedinBlacX]

I will also vouch for no Romance, but I want to go deeper.

Sonic liking Blaze is the step before Sonic liking Elise. Its gross. Biologically speaking, characters should not have any attraction to any characters not of their species or a relative species (Tigers/Lions). Sonic and Sally and the fact they had kids creeps me the hell out. Obviously, Sonic characters are more human then animal and I guess we could umbrella them under "Anthro" the same way we umbrella different ethic groups under Human, but its just weird. Hell, even Shadow and Maria is slightly ehh? Then there is Sonic standing for freedom and Adventure. Naaaw, no romance. 

 

[RaceProUK]

Romance doesn't have to mean sex; two people can love each other without wanting to make babies.

[RappedinBlacX]

4 minutes ago, RaceProUK said:

Romance doesn't have to mean sex; two people can love each other without wanting to make babies.

No implying that, just pointing out to where it reaches creepyness. Can a man love a dog and dog alove his owner? Absolutely. Can a man or woman love another woman or man not his/her husband? yes. Can Sonic loves Tails like a little Brother? Yessir. Maria and Shadow having a brother sister love? Cool. Elise liking Sonic romantically?! Weird. 

[Nepenthe]

It's only creepy in a context where you consider Sonic an "animal," by which I mean he's too dumb to consent like an actual dog. But the games present a culture where there's multiple sapient species who all have the same rights and privileges, as far as we've seen (hence them being jailed for crimes, or having houses, or being employed). It's theoretically no different from aliens and humans having romantic relationships in Star Trek or Mass Effect.

[RaceProUK]

7 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

It's theoretically no different from aliens and humans having romantic relationships in Star Trek or Mass Effect.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, I know from experience that that argument rarely convinces people.

[Jhreamer]

This pertains to a plot idea I was thinking about including, but have more or less scrapped because I don't think it meshes with Sonic.

Perhaps, in a world like this, interspecies relationships and mating are viewed similarly to homosexuality in our current society. Furthermore, perhaps people of a given species feel they were born in the wrong body and identify with another species, such as transgenderism. RappedinBlacX's response illustrates why this is relevant and could be a cool thing to explore, though likely causing uproars.

These ideas, while perfect parallels and could be great issues to address, are simply too hardcore for a Sonic world, I think. Maybe someday I can create another story that touches on this. Still, STRICTLY on a character potential basis; with the cool possibilities that arise from genetic combining, I like the idea of interspecies mating in a Sonic world. Think of how many cool characters with combined appearances and abilities from multiples species there could be! 

Let us please NOT turn this into a shitstorm about ideological views on LGBTQ matters. I should hope we're open-minded here, in any case. However, we can keep exploring the subject of interspecies romance in a Sonic setting, if it interests us (I wonder just how blurred that separation is?)

Edited January 9, 2016 by JohnTheDreamer
"Shitstork" into "shitstorm" (LOL SHITSTORK! Where did my poopy little brother come from, Mommy?)

[Nepenthe]

It seems like you're putting context where there isn't any in regards to how the franchise sees these relationships (it's sensible context mind if you wanted to go that route in a fanfiction). Fang is a wolf and weasel hybrid. Knuckles and Rouge clearly have a thing for each other. Shadow and Maria had a friendship. Elise had a romantic attraction to Sonic. There's a human character in Unleashed called Louie Montaine who comedically puts Sonic to tests of love and physically admires him. Sonic was slated to have a human girlfriend during his conception. None of these things have produced any sort of backlash within the context of the games they were in, and indeed most of these things didn't create backlash in real life. It was only with Sonic 06 being as bad as a it was and gamers trying to be edgy and cool that they started calling Elise's relationship with Sonic "bestiality". Again, that's a term that arose from the historical and biological reality of human beings being the only creatures on earth sapient enough to give clear and conscious consent to any aspect of romance after a certain age, meaning it wouldn't actually apply to Sonic's world the way it does in reality.

[Jhreamer]

Yeah, it wasn't an idea in response to the games. "My" world is a separate universe.

[RappedinBlacX]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

It's only creepy in a context where you consider Sonic an "animal," by which I mean he's too dumb to consent like an actual dog. But the games present a culture where there's multiple sapient species who all have the same rights and privileges, as far as we've seen (hence them being jailed for crimes, or having houses, or being employed). It's theoretically no different from aliens and humans having romantic relationships in Star Trek or Mass Effect.

Yea, I was implying that by the being more animal statement and the athro umbrella. Even then, it doesn't make the Elise thing any less weirder. Funny enough I knew somebody was going to bring aliens up. Aliens/human end up more natural just because it feels they belo. Sonic still hasn't meshed well  with humans well at all since attempting it leading to that being an extra hurdle that Sonic Team would have to climb over before even getting love.  That's best I give for that. 

I guess Im saying something needs to be established within the series to walk viewers like me into it. Sonic world has made issues like this clear. 

Sonic and pals can breath in space. The lore establishes that, so even though it makes no I dont question it because Sonic's world says how it works. 

[azoo]

I feel like romance is an okay subject to go into for a series like this, but only if done wisely and done sparsely. That said, I don't think Sonic and Amy is a wise ship by any means (nor would it be handled wisely), and since that'd probably be the main one they'd try to do then I'd gladly decline. :v

[RappedinBlacX]

I forgot! In Sonic OVA they love groping that girl. 

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Azoo said:

I feel like romance is an okay subject to go into for a series like this, but only if done wisely and done sparsely. That said, I don't think Sonic and Amy is a wise ship by any means (nor would it be handled wisely), and since that'd probably be the main one they'd try to do then I'd gladly decline. :v

I mean, it could work in theory...it would just require more competence than  the writers are willing to put in.

[Nepenthe]

As for something concerning "transpeciesm," it wouldn't be a thing either unless you somehow rationalized a world where every species had the genetic potential to be another species at birth. Transgenderism is objectively a thing because every human has the ability to be male or female or anything in between, and thus occasionally a mismatch between the brain and the body occurs. There is no dog DNA in a human child to scientifically make the case that someone can feasibly be a "dog born in a human body" for instance. So to explore that angle without treading extremely carefully would result in severe offense.

In general though, I don't much care for a game where romantic relationships are explored in any great detail. Hints like we've gotten and casual revelations ("I've got a date tonight with so and so") are fine, but I don't need a game where a lot of the main driving point is the romantic inclinations between the characters.

1 minute ago, RappedinBlacX said:

Yea, I was implying that by the being more animal statement and the athro umbrella. Even then, it doesn't make the Elise thing any less weirder. Funny enough I knew somebody was going to bring aliens up. Aliens/human end up more natural just because it feels they belo. Sonic still hasn't meshed well  with humans well at all since attempting it leading to that being an extra hurdle that Sonic Team would have to climb over before even getting love.  That's best I give for that. 

I guess Im saying something needs to be established within the series to walk viewers like me into it. Sonic world has made issues like this clear. 

Sonic and pals can breath in space. The lore establishes that, so even though it makes no I dont question it because Sonic's world says how it works. 

Sonic meshes perfectly fine with the humans in Unleashed. And interspecies relationships have been established across the entire franchise as I've noted several, so it's not without precedent (although I'm not sure why the precedent argument matters; you can't "introduce" an idea without there inherently being a state of being where that idea didn't exist in a specific context, meaning the first time anything is ever done is always going to weird you out). But basically, all this comes down to is aliens and humans are fine and anthro animals and humans aren't fine simply because of how you feel about each pairing versus any real consistent bases.

[Jhreamer]

Nepenthe, I loved that argument so much that I shared it with my dad (hopefully that's okay). He then theorized that, because virtually all life stems from a similar ancestor (if you support evolution), it is possible that the DNA of any species could mismatch.

Perhaps so improbable that it's nearly impossible, but if it has happened...how would we know? Perhaps some people's depressions are so seemingly without cause because the reason for their discontent is something we've never considered.

[azoo]

18 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I mean, it could work in theory...it would just require more competence than  the writers are willing to put in.

Making Sonic and Amy work would require Sonic to suddenly realize he was in love with her this whole time or something dumb like that and letting Amy slow him down for the sake of romance, or Amy being more mobile and changing herself some to where it works better for Sonic. It doesn't really work that well and feels more like trying to shove a round peg into a square hole because "blue boy + pink girl = romance".

Plus, to me it seems kind of obvious what with Amy's given age that (despite everyone being coded as slightly older than their canon ages) Amy's love for Sonic is equivalent to a prepubescent / young teenaged schoolgirl crush, a kind of crush without much thought put into how it realistically works.

Usually in media that use a trope like that, it ends up being where it doesn't work out because the girl's passion is one-sided and based off of infatuation and not off of compatibility. Making it where she wins in the end despite all of that is kind of.. bad writing, I'd say?

If we were to take character arcs and writing more seriously, I'd like it better if Amy were to realize how they wouldn't work out, and then whilst still liking him that way she at least matures enough to see why it's incompatible, and then grows closer to Sonic as a friend in the process. I'd like that way better than them ever becoming a thing, ever ever ever.

But once again, because "blue boy + pink girl = romance" it'd probably be the first thing they force into the games if they became more liberal with usage of romance in the plots. Blegh.

[RaceProUK]

13 minutes ago, RappedinBlacX said:

Aliens/human end up more natural just because it feels they belong.

When you say 'aliens', do you mean

or

or

?

They're all aliens, after all.

[Jhreamer]

Brings up another interesting question! Would the joining of a human and a Vulcan (dear God I hope that's a Vulcan; I swear I'm a bigger sci if fan than my detection skills suggest) be "more 'normal'" or "more acceptable" than the joining of a human and Jabba's race? Would, say, a hedgehog-porcupine relationship equate to human-Vulcan, and hedgehog-human equate to human-Hutt? Or should be abandon those restrictive principles and allow all races social freedom in their romantic choices?

This feels like Script Analysis class, only much better!

[shdowhunt60]

3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Does anyone really even care about any sort of romance among the cast?

You've clearly never been to Deviantart. Or Tumblr. Or Fanfiction.net. Or A03. Or...

Oh wait, you meant the cast itself. Aside from Amy? Not really.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

12 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

You've clearly never been to Deviantart. Or Tumblr. Or Fanfiction.net. Or A03. Or...

Oh wait, you meant the cast itself. Aside from Amy? Not really.

points at people with "sonaze". 

[Nepenthe]

1 hour ago, JohnTheDreamer said:

Nepenthe, I loved that argument so much that I shared it with my dad (hopefully that's okay). He then theorized that, because virtually all life stems from a similar ancestor (if you support evolution), it is possible that the DNA of any species could mismatch.

Perhaps so improbable that it's nearly impossible, but if it has happened...how would we know? Perhaps some people's depressions are so seemingly without cause because the reason for their discontent is something we've never considered.

It's not physically possible simply because of genetic divergence. This is why a fish can't breed with an antelope, or a bird can't breed with an alligator, and why we can't breed with chimps even though we share 99% of our DNA with them. The biological ability for an animal to express mental capabilities outside of its genetic potential is impossible through natural means. Any specimen of dog as we know the species will never come about to have a human-esque language cortex and thus be able to speak English with us just because we came from the same proto mammal.

[Jhreamer]

Biological impossibility! That changes things.

[shdowhunt60]

But who's to say that genetics even work the same way with Mobians at all? Perhaps they defy our conventional thinking of how biology works, and maybe some of how our thinking in regards to how things like evolution are not really compatible with them. It's interesting world-building stuff to think about, but I doubt we'll ever see elaboration on how it all works sadly.