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The "Other Sonic Knowledge & Discoveries" Topic


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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...

Fuck, I need a method to prevent being bored on a Sunday, I just keep making mini research projects.

Mighty and the Mystery of the Gale Racer Cameo

So I was doing some random video hopping, and on one of them I was reminded of the cameo that Mighty and Ray had in Gale Racer. For those that don't know, Gale Racer was the 1994 Saturn port of 1990's Rad Mobile (the first time we officially saw Sonic in a game). Now, cameos in other games by the same staff or company are nothing new. Bean and Bark got to appear in AM2's Fighters Megamix and Virtua Striker 2, all of the StF cast were collectable figurines in Shenmue and even above you can see Fang cameo in another of Aspect/Higashi's Sonic titles, Tails Adventure. 

Except, this cameo is odd; Gale Racer was developed by AM2, not AM3, so they don't share a single staff member in common with each other. What gives? 

As a reminder, Mighty and Ray were created by Manabu Kusunoki while working with AM3 (although he wasn't strictly limited to AM3). Mighty was eventually used again for Chaotix after the cameo in Gale Racer. Kusunoki never touched this porting project. 

Mighty and Ray weren't the only ones who cameo'd in Gale Racer though. In fact, there was a whole host of Sonic characters, listed in order of how many points are required to unlock them;

Sonic, Tails, Metal Sonic, Mighty, Eggman, Mecha Sonic (Sonic 2), Ray, Amy Rose, Mecha Sonic (Sonic 3), Knuckles, Super Sonic.

Man, that is quite the array of characters, pretty much all the major ones in the franchise at that point (except ones developed by American STI because fuck Spinball). So they must have had a good knowledge of Sonic as a whole since this was still in the era where Sonic Team was fractured (it wouldn't last much longer). But it's weird how Mecha Sonic (the Sonic 3 one) and Knuckles are ranked so highly against the others who were mixed about, why would anyone in this team have such a bias for Sonic 3?

Quote

 Graphic Designer: Takashi Thomas Yuda

...Well, hello there Mr Yuda. Yes, Knuckles' creator was a graphic designer for Gale Racer, and it...kinda shows. 

Not just this, but the timeline also fits remarkably well; Yuda would have at least known Yamaguchi and Sonic 2 from being at the same developing studio that made it (even if he didn't work on Sonic 2 himself), and Ohshima, Hoshino and Kusunoki would have all become co-workers when he was put on Chaotix (with Sonic 3&K finishing the design phase well before February 1994, as the problem at that point was having to split the game), so that would be an ample time to learn about all these characters not developed by STI. Furthermore, while Ohshima and Hoshino had to be taken off Chaotix to work on NiGHTS (and even Kusunoki has special thanks on it), Yuda had nothing to do with that game. While NiGHTS was released February 1995, Gale Racer was released December 1994, so it seems he was moved to that project instead of with the other two designers (while Kusonoki himself got moved onto Panzer Dragoon (March 1995), so not a bad deal there either, just absent of Sonic cameos). 

As to why they didn't cameo the other Chaotix when he'd got a credit on that and Rad Mobile was no stranger to early bird cameos? Given that all of the projects they moved onto were released before Chaotix, it seems they were moved on pretty early, so there's a good chance Yuda never saw Vector, Espio and Charmy put into game form by the time he was on Gale Racer, while those characters that did cameo already had a game under the belt to reference from. At the very least, it strongly suggests he didn't create Espio. And of course Higashi was never involved with Chaotix, so he's not a cameo in Gale Racer either. 

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  • 1 month later...

In 2009, the now defunct GameTap service produced a documentary for Sonic The Hedgehog that was very informative and included many interviews with various key people. I'm sure many of you have seen this before, however the 4-part video is no longer available outside of France due to YouTube/Metaboli restrictions.

This is a shame as the videos were really well made and are a big miss for any Sonic fan who didn't get a chance to see it. The only things that are available from it are the first part on various sites, and a Castilian fan-dub of it on YouTube.

So, I took it upon myself to upload my copy so it'll be easy available for anyone wishing to see/re-watch it.

I'm planning on adding English and Spanish subtitles at a later date for convenience.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Recently I've been binge watching watching AoStH via my DVD boxset, and I only recently noticed something about said set that suddenly put something from years before into perspective.

As many may remember, Adventures was rerun in the UK on the channel Pop in the mid-2000's. It had actually managed to become one of its most popular shows at the time, so much so that they ran a marathon one bank holiday monday, where they also ran a competition where viewers were in for the chance of winning a prize if they answered a question correctly about the episode they'd just watched.

The one question that always stuck out to me from that marathon was the one for "So Long Sucker"...because the question was literally unanswerable. It asked "What was the name of Tails new pet", and it listed three possible names, and not one of them was the correct answer "Goopster".

Flash-forward to now, and after all this time, I now know what the deal with that question was: whoever was putting these questions together were basing them on the official (usually inaccurate) episode descriptions, the very ones present in my boxset! The description for the aformentioned episode incorrectly calls Goopster "Walter". My memory is hazy, but that sounded vaguely like one of the answers for that question.

The episode descriptions in this boxset all have a lot of inaccuracies and outright incorrect information. The blurp for "Tails in Charge", for example, claims to be about Tails being left to fend for himself while Sonic goes to save a village or something, instead of the "Stopper-Zapper" plot.

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19 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Recently I've been binge watching watching AoStH via my DVD boxset, and I only recently noticed something about said set that suddenly put something from years before into perspective.

As many may remember, Adventures was rerun in the UK on the channel Pop in the mid-2000's. It had actually managed to become one of it's most popular shows at the time, so much so that they ran a marathon one bank holiday monday, where they also ran a competition where viewers were in for the chance of winning a prize if they answered a question correctly about the episode they'd just watched.

The one question that always stuck out to me from that marathon was the one for "So Long Sucker"...because the question was literally unanswerable. It asked "What was the name of Tails new pet", and it listed three possible names, and not one of them was the correct answer "Goopster".

Flash-forward to now, and after all this time, I now know what the deal with that question was: whoever was putting these questions together were basing them on the official (usually inaccurate) episode descriptions, the very ones present in my boxset! The description for the aformentioned episode incorrectly calls Goopster "Walter". My memory is hazy, but that sounded vaguely like one of the answers for that question.

The episode descriptions in this boxset all have a lot of inaccuracies and outright incorrect information. The blurp for "Tails in Charge", for example, claims to be about Tails being left to fend for himself while Sonic goes to save a village or something, instead of the "Stopper-Zapper" plot.

Sounds like someone should've actually watched the episode before making a quiz question about it... ;)

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  • 1 month later...

On the back of the species discussion going on, I decided to translate most of Espio's moves from the Fighters video. Most of it was standard stuff, but there were a couple of interesting points.

-The throw name actually references the act of table flipping. Not sure if that's consistent with the other characters.

-The tornado attacks are actually called "Espio spin". Likewise, his special is called "Espio warp". What a narcissist. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

So I probably should have mentioned it before but I actually own a Sonic and the Secret Rings DVD:

Spoiler

l56TLqtl.jpg

It's nothing special though, seems to be one of those DVD's they used to play at video game retail stores.
But, it's still something cool to have.

If you're wondering what's on it, it's an extended version of the promo that was at the end of the trail version of the game.

 

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Well, here's something the Sonic Stadium main site posted about a week ago - the first prototype footage of Sonic R.

No especially groundbreaking revelations to be found, but still an interesting watch, especially for those like me who have a special place in their heart for the game. I think the prototype bridge texture looks a bit better than the final.

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  • 4 weeks later...

A month later and that channel is still producing gold nugget after gold nugget of interesting history. For this post, I'm focusing on the latest one made about the level editing mode in Sonic 3D Blast (MD). 

What I find most interesting about this is that pretty much every Badnik in the game is seen scrolled at some point in his demonstration (bar the "Badniks" in Puppet Panic Zone). 

Using Sonic Retro's Badnik list as reference, these are the names for them in the level editing mode;

GG Badnik 1 - Scouter

GG Badnik 2 - Hunter

GG Badnik 3 - Snake (for some reason there's an A and B version) 

RR Badnik 1 - Crock

RR Badnik 2 - Bee

SS Badnik 1 - Dragfly

SS Badnik 2 - Spider

SS Badnik 4 - Shell

SS Badnik 4 - Fish (it's actually with the Gene Gadget Badniks in the mode, suggesting it was made for that level then put in Spring Stadium as well later)

DD Badnik 1 - Snowman (the Badnik form is Snowman 1, the stationary mine form is Snowman 2)

DD Badnik 2 - Bunny

DD Badnik 3 - Pengo (Which itself is possibly a reference to an old arcade game made by SEGA)

VV Badnik 1 - Bug

VV Badnik 2 - Firefly

VV Badnik 3 - Bat

VV Badnik 4 - Scorpy

(Other) GG Badnik 1 - Octopus

(Other) GG Badnik 2 - Mouse

As you may notice...these names are pretty simple compared to standard Badnik naming. However, given that their names were never used in promo material or anything, I doubt they got names beyond this. 

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On 10/10/2017 at 2:20 PM, VEDJ-F said:

A month later and that channel is still producing gold nugget after gold nugget of interesting history. For this post, I'm focusing on the latest one made about the level editing mode in Sonic 3D Blast (MD). 

What I find most interesting about this is that pretty much every Badnik in the game is seen scrolled at some point in his demonstration (bar the "Badniks" in Puppet Panic Zone). 

Using Sonic Retro's Badnik list as reference, these are the names for them in the level editing mode;

GG Badnik 1 - Scouter

GG Badnik 2 - Hunter

GG Badnik 3 - Snake (for some reason there's an A and B version) 

RR Badnik 1 - Crock

RR Badnik 2 - Bee

SS Badnik 1 - Dragfly

SS Badnik 2 - Spider

SS Badnik 3 - Shell

SS Badnik 4 - Fish (it's actually with the Gene Gadget Badniks in the mode, suggesting it was made for that level then put in Spring Stadium as well later)

DD Badnik 1 - Snowman (the Badnik form is Snowman 1, the stationary mine form is Snowman 2)

DD Badnik 2 - Bunny

DD Badnik 3 - Pengo (Which itself is possibly a reference to an old arcade game made by SEGA)

VV Badnik 1 - Bug

VV Badnik 2 - Firefly

VV Badnik 3 - Bat

VV Badnik 4 - Scorpy

(Other) GG Badnik 1 - Octopus

(Other) GG Badnik 2 - Mouse

As you may notice...these names are pretty simple compared to standard Badnik naming. However, given that their names were never used in promo material or anything, I doubt they got names beyond this. 

Now I wonder what the names of the Panic Puppet badniks must be? And a lot of the Advance names were pretty simple as well. If only we had Fire and Ice Badnik names...

 

edit: Lost World’s Badnik names were simple as well. (Many were in Japanese) Not so much with the Rivals series and Rush Adventure (Rush 1 used Egg Pawns and their kin, which the Rivals series relied on quite a bit as well.)

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  • 2 months later...

Socks not being socks not enough? How about an actual truth bomb?

This video was a German promo vid made in 1992 (as seen by the title, and the credits to the documentary). There's a lot about SEGA's general history, but the most relevant thing for us here is the section between 4:21 and about 4:36. It focuses on a Research and Development team (Sega Software R&D Dept. 8 eventually becoming Sonic Team, so that shows you how early this was done), and you can see the following concepts;

-Concept art of Nikki (yes, that Nikki from the Manga). He has the glasses as always, but shoes more like Amy and a bowtie that reminds me of the pre-Sonic rabbit concept.

-Concept art of Amy Rose, with ever so slightly different clothes (it's a dress instead of top and skirt, but it's hard to tell). 

-Concept art of Anita/Tania, Sonic's little sister in the Manga.

-Concept art of Sonic's parents from the Manga. Brenda seems rather different from her manga counterpart, not so much Paulie. 

-Other concept art of the female hedgehogs, including Tania with just gloves, neckbow and skates and what appears to be a topless Amy (not like that).

-Concept art of Vector rocking a Blues Brothers-esque combo of hat, shades and tie. This concept art looks so similar to his Chaotix self that I'm fully convinced he was developed fully way before KC and he was just nabbed. 

-Concept art of Anton's brother Matt. We didn't have a Sonic-esque look for him before, so that's nice to see.

-Concept art of Anton Verruca, who is much longer than the Manga made him out to be. His t-shirt is also not a t-shirt, it's...I don't know. 

-Concept art of Anton's parents, which we never saw in the Manga.

-Concept art of Ray the Flying Squirrel. No, seriously, that's Ray. The long nose, black fur and backing on the figure next to him might even be an early Mighty. 

-Concept art of several stages and level mechanics. 

-The Sonic mannequin.

-Some Sonic art. One we've seen a million times, one not so familiar.

-A sprite test for Sonic's regular run animation.

This does raise some questions of its own...like, what were aiming for? It looks like even back here Sonic Team were building ideas for a bigger narrative than what ended up existing, and then there's the whole timeline of Ray and proto-Mighty being in this. Still, if this is what Sonic Team had as proto-Mighty's design, it doesn't eliminate the possibility of Kusonoki stepping in and refining it to what we got in SSH. Also Anton's design being cannibalised for Heroes is way more plausible now. 

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On 12/25/2017 at 7:33 PM, VEDJ-F said:

Here's some knowledge I just made a status about: There are no socks here.

Interesting, and it makes the designs a lot more consistent with that knowledge too. 

i thought they were always part of his shoes

am i the only one who thought that

no one has socks those insanely long

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And now for something completely different, as I go and answer something to Sonic Retro even though they can't see me.

So someone there has come across this Bento Box out of the blue. 

s-l1600.jpg

What they noted was that the background was that of Sparkling Zone (which became Spring Yard Zone later), but what they didn't note (likely because it's easy to forget) is that we've that Sonic art before; it was seen in CVG #126 along with the other crazy promo art and image assets SEGA didn't seem to use otherwise, and to be honest I think were likely the basis for the Sonic screensavers that came later. Nice to see it was used outside of a far-off British magazine company being given them.

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On 12/31/2017 at 7:00 PM, VEDJ-F said:

Socks not being socks not enough? How about an actual truth bomb?

This video was a German promo vid made in 1992 (as seen by the title, and the credits to the documentary). There's a lot about SEGA's general history, but the most relevant thing for us here is the section between 4:21 and about 4:36. It focuses on a Research and Development team (Sega Software R&D Dept. 8 eventually becoming Sonic Team, so that shows you how early this was done), and you can see the following concepts;

-Concept art of Nikki (yes, that Nikki from the Manga). He has the glasses as always, but shoes more like Amy and a bowtie that reminds me of the pre-Sonic rabbit concept.

-Concept art of Amy Rose, with ever so slightly different clothes (it's a dress instead of top and skirt, but it's hard to tell). 

-Concept art of Anita/Tania, Sonic's little sister in the Manga.

-Concept art of Sonic's parents from the Manga. Brenda seems rather different from her manga counterpart, not so much Paulie. 

-Other concept art of the female hedgehogs, including Tania with just gloves, neckbow and skates and what appears to be a topless Amy (not like that).

-Concept art of Vector rocking a Blues Brothers-esque combo of hat, shades and tie. This concept art looks so similar to his Chaotix self that I'm fully convinced he was developed fully way before KC and he was just nabbed. 

-Concept art of Anton's brother Matt. We didn't have a Sonic-esque look for him before, so that's nice to see.

-Concept art of Anton Verruca, who is much longer than the Manga made him out to be. His t-shirt is also not a t-shirt, it's...I don't know. 

-Concept art of Anton's parents, which we never saw in the Manga.

-Concept art of Ray the Flying Squirrel. No, seriously, that's Ray. The long nose, black fur and backing on the figure next to him might even be an early Mighty. 

-Concept art of several stages and level mechanics. 

-The Sonic mannequin.

-Some Sonic art. One we've seen a million times, one not so familiar.

-A sprite test for Sonic's regular run animation.

This does raise some questions of its own...like, what were aiming for? It looks like even back here Sonic Team were building ideas for a bigger narrative than what ended up existing, and then there's the whole timeline of Ray and proto-Mighty being in this. Still, if this is what Sonic Team had as proto-Mighty's design, it doesn't eliminate the possibility of Kusonoki stepping in and refining it to what we got in SSH. Also Anton's design being cannibalised for Heroes is way more plausible now. 

 

This is a great discovery, but what does Anton have to do with Sonic Heroes?

 

Can anyone remember which year's Summer of Sonic or Sonic Boom Q&A they talked about the Shogakukan manga? Or the one where they talked about the Chaotix characters being based on Sonic Team concepts?

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I'm stealing stuff from Tracker, aren't I naughty. 

66573542_p0.png

Tails' character designer, Yasushi Yamaguchi, did some new Tails art for the 25th anniversary of Tails

There were also some conception tidbits mentioned in the description.

-The idea that Tails was going to be a girl and the idea that he was going to be a Tanuki are both wrong. The former was just a misinterpretation of a game screen mock-up (because he'd given him a bit too much chest hair). the latter stemmed from an unrelated design being a Tanuki (but Tails himself was always a fox). 

-When Yamaguchi designed him, he actually had him being five years old in mind. AoStH proving strangely close there, and also a bit awkward for those who think he should be older. 

-The original design had the bangs to the side of the head, which can be seen in the early merch as well. This was altered to the middle for the sake of the production of soft toys a bit later on, and it stuck. 

-Tails has a favourite car; The Lotus Super Seven (which was seen in the Sonic CD screen and the Manga. I checked the drawn cars against the real life things). Yamaguchi decided to give him a fave car because Sonic had one within the office already; a Lamborghini Countach (which seems familiar, but I can't say where I've seen it before).

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  • 1 month later...

Wahey, looks like the auction winner was on the side of archiving research too!

Looking at the lizard family, @KoDaiko was right about the mystery names being Haddo and Hogi, and I was right about the last triplet keeping the pattern. But it looks like the last boy's name is トッド (Toddo). The mother's name is ベラ (Bera), so I'm guessing she'd be Vera in English. Vera Verruca, has a ring to it.

Also, mystery sister out of nowhere! The last character of her name is actually hard to decipher. I have it down as ミグ (Migu) which is a bit weird. If it was ミク without the marks, it'd be Miku which...uh, would be funny. 

I can't believe Anton has two parents and four siblings, and we only knew about one brother for over a decade. 

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29 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

...Mud and Hud?

That's definitely Mad and Had there, not Mud and Hud. Katakana for "Hu" doesn't even exist.

I did notice that too. Windii did the translation quickly so it might be autocorrect messing things up.

Edit: actually Windii stands by Mud and Hud.

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