Should Sonic join Mina's band in Archie?

[Picchi]

I've talked about it breifly in the Archie topic, but I thought it'd be better to discuss it in its own since there's other things in addition that I wanted to bring up.

The more I hear what people have to say, the more I get to thinking that it may be a good idea. Princess Sally makes it difficult for any of the other characters to connect with Sonic because she's designed to be his jack-of-all-trades foil. Bunnie and Antione are likewise, their own foils who predominately live in their own little world in love together and rarely ever get out of that to do anything with Sonic.

Simply put, most of the Freedom Fighters hinder or haven't displayed a decent enough capacity to actually do their jobs as supporting characters, serving little more to Sonic as combat fodder. They usually have so little to do with him, that it makes you wonder why they're not just given their own stories in Sonic Universe with the occasional visit so that he can have a supporting cast group (Tails and Amy included) that's more relevant to him and isn't as cluttered. It'd also explain how Sonic can be a free spirit and roam the world: He tours around, does gigs, gets enough money so that he can keep on doing it while fighting Robotnik/Eggman along with other baddies as he goes. Not that much different from Oshima's original potrayl of the character.

What do you think? Is it a good idea for Sonic to leave New Mobotropolis as a full-time band member? Part time? If so, which characters would you have? Do you think he should stay with the Freedom Fighters? Explain why or why not.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Picchi

[Sega DogTagz]

I think that for most people, Sonic Underground puts the final nail in the coffin for this idea right from the start.

I realize the circumstances and characters would be different, (shoot even the main Hedgehog is different) but that would essentially be what it boils down too. While your dealing with that, fiddle with the idea regarding the difficultly of building a cast of musically inclined Archie characters without it feeling forced, let alone with the ability to add to Sonic as a character. If your going to create characters to fit the role, it becomes little more than a fanfic and it should be the one demoted to side story status if anything at all.

[Jix Hedgehog]

Huh, never thought about that...

I sure fans wouldn't mind seeing Sonic occasionally jumping in to play, he wouldn't have to completely quit the recently reformed Freedom Fighters thou.

Maybe when the story offers Sonic a chance to catch his breath.. until then, there is a LOT going on

[Picchi]

I think that for most people, Sonic Underground puts the final nail in the coffin for this idea right from the start.

I realize the circumstances and characters would be different, (shoot even the main Hedgehog is different) but that would essentially be what it boils down too.

Of course, Sonic's circumstances and characters within the show WERE primary reasons why people disliked the series. I don't think you're looking into the reasons why SU failed, instead assuming that simply because it did, nothing concerning Sonic and music would work. A lot of reasons why people voiced dislike for SU isn't because of the concept of Sonic being a musician with friends, its got more to do with the fact that it had poor, persistant, music every episode, bad voice acting, Sonic as a prince with no Tails who was replaced by a pair of siblings looking for their queen mother. That concept especially now, is something that not a lot of Sonic fans can identify with. Especially when Sonic's supposed to be a free spirit with at bare minimum Tails as a sidekick.

Oh, and they bastardized Knuckles.

While your dealing with that, fiddle with the idea regarding the difficultly of building a cast of musically inclined Archie characters without it feeling forced

How would it be "forced"? Sonic's naturally displayed an ability to play the guitar in the comics and he can sing the male vocals of his own songs while Mina sings the female parts or backs him up. Tails can serve as a techincal genius that can help produce music from computers, Amy could at the very least serve as a back-up dancer in an attempt to be around Sonic more, and Vector's also musically inclined as well and could probably work as a DJ or rap. Also, unlike Sonic Underground, there are plenty of songs that Sonic Team's distributed already to choose from. Instead of trying to make their own, why not use some of them for a few panels?

If your going to create characters to fit the role, it becomes little more than a fanfic

I think you're overreacting. We have so many characters presently in the comics and games that're musically inclined or would voluntarily take part that this doesn't feel like a serious issue. Even if we didn't take Sonic, Mina, Tails, Amy and Vector into account, we have Tiara, and arguably Charmy and Espio from the games who can occasionally come in if they're needed. And even if a new character were added to fill in a spot that no one could, who cares? If they can be written to contribute while adding to Sonic's story without hogging the spotlight or detrimenting the other characters, I don't see what the problem is.

I sure fans wouldn't mind seeing Sonic occasionally jumping in to play, he wouldn't have to completely quit the recently reformed Freedom Fighters thou.

The decision doesn't necessarily stem from the fact he'd "have" to so much as that its better for the overall story that he does. The Freedom Fighters aren't really doing anything as supporting characters, or in Sally's case hindering the team. Perhaps Sonic and the gang could start out occasionally doing music, and then branching out full-time eventually, after some problems in New Mobotropolis, but again, point is, the Freedom Fighters hardly do anything with Sonic, anyway; and when they do have their own stories, Sonic is almost if not completely irrelevant to it. If that's the way they're going to operate, if they're not going to have much to do with Sonic anyway, then why not just give them their own stories in Sonic Universe to compensate not seeing them in the main book? Sure, Sonic can come back to Knothole and have some adventures, but the Freedom Fighters don't come off to me as though they're the types of characters that would work well reoccuringly.

[Sega DogTagz]

Of course, Sonic's circumstances and characters within the show WERE primary reasons why people disliked the series. I don't think you're looking into the reasons why SU failed, instead assuming that simply because it did, nothing concerning Sonic and music would work. A lot of reasons why people voiced dislike for SU isn't because of the concept of Sonic being a musician with friends, its got more to do with the fact that it had poor, persistant, music every episode, bad voice acting, Sonic as a prince with no Tails who was replaced by a pair of siblings looking for their queen mother. That concept especially now, is something that not a lot of Sonic fans can identify with. Especially when Sonic's supposed to be a free spirit with at bare minimum Tails as a sidekick.

Oh, and they bastardized Knuckles.

Fair enough, but any story featuring Sonic and a music profession will bring back memories of SU. Not a good taste in most peoples mouths and it is certainly not a good first impression.

How would it be "forced"? Sonic's naturally displayed an ability to play the guitar in the comics and he can sing the male vocals of his own songs while Mina sings the female parts or backs him up. Tails can serve as a techincal genius that can help produce music from computers, Amy could at the very least serve as a back-up dancer in an attempt to be around Sonic more, and Vector's also musically inclined as well and could probably work as a DJ or rap. Also, unlike Sonic Underground, there are plenty of songs that Sonic Team's distributed already to choose from. Instead of trying to make their own, why not use some of them for a few panels?

I think you're overreacting. We have so many characters presently in the comics and games that're musically inclined or would voluntarily take part that this doesn't feel like a serious issue. Even if we didn't take Sonic, Mina, Tails, Amy and Vector into account, we have Tiara, and arguably Charmy and Espio from the games who can occasionally come in if they're needed. And even if a new character were added to fill in a spot that no one could, who cares? If they can be written to contribute while adding to Sonic's story without hogging the spotlight or detrimenting the other characters, I don't see what the problem is.

I meant forced as in

Edited July 27, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[Mike]

I guess that would explain why Sonic hears music every time he starts running.

That or he's got a brain aneurysm.

[Jix Hedgehog]

I don't think it would be better for the story if he "did", I'm enjoying the series right now after that slump they took.

Time moves on and peoples lives are affected by it, Sally has and always will have a responsibility towards the kingdom, Bunnie and Ant are busy making babies, Rotor (who they've done a terrible job of making him appear old) is still the brains behind everything, Tails has him family back..

Even if they're not in the spot light and are considered support characters, they will always be the Freedom Fighters, together or not.

Sonic being in Minas band would be fun, but would also create more love tension then Ash would come back (ugh) and they've done all that before..

[Sean]

I hardly know squat about this Mina band thing (other than that her boyfriend Ash - okay, every time I hear the name Ash, I think of this guy - tried to set her up as a pop idol, and he hated Sonic? i dno lol), but I don't find it interesting to read about characters in a band. Since, you know, you don't get to hear their music and I think the comic format makes it self-defeating. One of these days I'd probably try getting into Detroit Metal City, though.

Sonic in the Archie comics is much more "homely" than his other counterparts; he's more willing to stay in one place because he grew up there, and because he was forced to take refuge there after Robotnik had taken over. He's probably too attached to his home and friends/family - as well as devoted to his mission against battling Robotnik's strongholds - to take the time for a vacation. Then again, I haven't been following recent developments of the comics lately.

[Picchi]

I meant forced as in.

-Sonic needs a friend on Tour

-Hey look! Suddenly Mighty could play Drums!!!

Not really. The concept doesn't have to take off fully right away, instead starting off with a couple stories or so with Sonic and Tails partaking in the band and the cast steadily developing as more of his friends grow aware of his involvement.

Tails, Amy, Mina and Vector all have 24/7 access to Sonic as it is

Tails and Amy might, but Vector and Mina sure as heck don't. Also for the characters who DO have 24/7 access to him, their ability to connect with is again, still very limited because of Sally.

The FFs have been effective in flushing out Archie Sonics character in the past.

How? Explain to me how each of them "individually", not as a group fleshen him out. Because from what I've been seeing so far, its mostly been Sally.

I dont think you can throw away history like that. While they might not be as prominent as they used to be, they are still rather important to Sonic

Again, I stated that he could always develop problems in New Mobotropolis (such as disagreements with the Counsil's desions) that prompt him to leave. History or not, how are the Freedom Fighters important to Sonic? Again, what do or could they do for him that would make their personalities signiffigant to him?

What your proposing is only stomping around the initial SatAm concept by ripping apart the original cast.

Of course, Rotor's already gone and Bunnie and Antione are almost always regulated to background fodder anyway-- but thats not exactly the point. You're implying that they should be here for nolstalgia's sake despite the fact they do nothing for the story's quality. The cartoon had a similar problem to what I've been voicing as well, only this time its not the 1990s. This may sound harsh but Archie's not going to win any brownie points with fans or potential buyers by investing their time with a bunch of do-nothings that don't do their job as a supporting cast, aren't reknown and aren't even in the games to begin with. Granted, they can have their own stories, we have Sonic Universe, and Sonic can come back and have adventures with them, but they haven't proven that they work as main characters. Sonic doesn't require them, and lot of the stories they do have don't require Sonic either outside of being likewise, a fighting appliance. Sonic's only needed in their team for his abilities, not for who he is.

Sonic being in Minas band would be fun, but would also create more love tension then Ash would come back (ugh) and they've done all that before..

I always figured they could pull off what the writers in Kim Possible did with Kim and Josh eventually. They just break up off panel. Who says Sonic had to be involved in why they split up? I wouldn't be surprised if the media made enough of a stink about their relationship to eventually prompt something like that considering their age gap. Just look at Miley Cyrus.

he's more willing to stay in one place because he grew up there, and because he was forced to take refuge there after Robotnik had taken over.

If he was so bound to that place, then the Mobius World Tour wouldn't have happened. also, he's leaning more towards his game counterpart anyway regardless of what he arguably may have been.

as well as devoted to his mission against battling Robotnik's strongholds

IIRC, Eggman doesn't really have an empire anymore. Lost it in #200. But even if Eggman did have one, why shouldn't Sonic go around the world to stop him from expanding? Furthermore, I think the Iron Queen is proof enough that he needs to get out more. Sonic was so focused on Knothole's/New Mobotropolis' problems that he didn't take into much account the issues going on around Mobius that he could have helped from escalating.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Picchi

[Miko]

I hardly know squat about this Mina band thing (other than that her boyfriend Ash - okay, every time I hear the name Ash, I think of this guy - tried to set her up as a pop idol, and he hated Sonic? i dno lol), but I don't find it interesting to read about characters in a band. Since, you know, you don't get to hear their music and I think the comic format makes it self-defeating.

I think it'd make a good excuse anyway. Do you even have to allude to the bands and the singing very often? No. 80-95% of the whole thing would probably be Sonic and co fighting Robotnik with the band being a means to explain how Sonic can afford his lifestyle, explain his departure to people like Tails' family, keep a main cast together and to limit the number of main characters without it becoming cluttered. For example, their adventure may start coming from a gig or they may be attacked in the middle of it. The comic used to attempt doing this concept with the idea of Freedom Fighting. Problem is, that the profession acts as a ball and chain to Sonic's free spirited nature and the characters chosen to fulfill position of Freedom Fighters have never been good supporting characters. And as long as Sally's among them they probably never will. I think as long as performances go, all of them could ocassionally do lyrics or dance which reflect their state of mind or something from their adventure, although I'd probably keep most of it focused on Sonic and regulate the others to backup stories or maybe an ocassional story where they getting their own spotlight. I'm ok with the idea, but I wouldn't want the comic to get too focused with the gig aspect of it, that they lose sight of the fact that this is to help facilitate in them stopping Robotnik by spreading their message and by fighting him. The actual action of stopping him being the most signifficant part.

My feeling is that if the gigs were done they should not and probably realistically wouldn't be every issue. Do most musicians do a concert every day? No. Especially when all things considered, they'd be raking in enough cash to last awhile (or until Amy blows it all shopping) because Sonic is already a big name around the world? So, when they are doing a gig it'd probably explore the above mentioned and probably a few other things I'm probably too tired to think about. For the rest of the series is just helps to explain how Sonic drifts away from the leash that is New Mobitropolis and it's convulted backstory I guess.

While your dealing with that, fiddle with the idea regarding the difficultly of building a cast of musically inclined Archie characters without it feeling forced

Sonic already has an interest in playing a guitar and Tails for example as someone who admires Sonic could easily be explained as trying to get into music because he likes watching Sonic do it. with his proficiency in technology can just as easily use someone like Nicole to creatively express himself from using programs to set up music, Holographic images, backdrop settings, lyrics, etc. Amy could do it because she wants to get close to Sonic, and Knuckles ever since Return to Angel island has acknowledged a need for his services world wide and can simply use it to venture off. Given the kind of cast we have with people who can acheive death defying stunts like it's child play, pretend fighting, etc could also enhance the performance with combat and other moves easy to the characters replacing typical dance routines. Or hell just let them fight for real.

I meant forced as in.

-Sonic needs a friend on Tour

-Hey look! Suddenly Mighty could play Drums!!!

And to conncect my clarifications with what you're saying each of the characters I've already mentioned has an incentive to learn music, or already knows it. Knuckles as a personal decision wanted to travel the world because he felt the world needed him, not just the island. He might even be a force to convince Sonic to finally break free. Characters like say Bunnie have never made that kind of personal decision and they have no incentive to actually join that kind of lifestyle in a way that would be easy to explain. I'd also much prefer the Chaotix to start setting up their agency. Knuckles has enough supporting characters with just the regular gaming cast. Their personalities are virtually null in the comics and they haven't really contributed to Knux's personality/fleshened it out for them to need to follow him everywhere he goes.

Fair enough, but any story featuring Sonic and a music profession will bring back memories of SU. Not a good taste in most peoples mouths and it is certainly not a good first impression.

Most people don't even remember AoStH, SatAM or SU. That's one of the reasons the games are being emphasized so heavily upon when trying to attract newer viewers. When it comes to the younger viewers Archie proclaims to target especially, SU is actually older than most of them. If it were really that bad, Sonic could explain himself as just touring with Mina and his friends to protect her as she heads to wherever Robotnik goes raise morale against him like she was doing for Knotholes troops or being a bodyguard like the Chaotix. It could develop from there at a pace people were comfortable with, but I really don't think that has to be the case. They can introduce it by just alluding to the music offpanel and getting straight into the adventure, communicating to people that the action is the central part of the story. The music would just be an excuse to get him out of New Mobitropolis with the other characters so he can actually be a free spirit.

Sonic being in Minas band would be fun, but would also create more love tension then Ash would come back (ugh) and they've done all that before..

They could just kill him off and make Mina so broken from the expirience she approaches relationships with great reluctance since her expiriences have never been favorable. I only suggest killing him because he doesn't really add to the story anyway. He just tags along and smiles whenever Mina shows up. There is nothing he really adds to the story that's all that interesting.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Miko

[redmenace]

Why can't Sonic just leave the Freedom Fighters because he's not having fun there anymore? Sally needs to stay n the kingdom, Bunnie and Antoine are married and Rotor is stuck to his trinkets. There's really nothing there anymore.

About being stuck on a band... He can roam freely, probably Tails on his heel, Amy on his heel as well and Knuckles being searched for when they need help. Shadow and Rouge can pop every now and then if the plot is worth it. There's no need for a band.

[Miko]

Why can't Sonic just leave the Freedom Fighters because he's not having fun there anymore? Sally needs to stay n the kingdom, Bunnie and Antoine are married and Rotor is stuck to his trinkets. There's really nothing there anymore

How does their redundancy change the fact he's a comrade and an asset to their ever so convulted government? Even though you think this way, Tails' mom is just going to happily let her child go into harms way where the council can't coordinate their decisions? With a guy whose pretty much labeled as dangerously reckless by...everyone? One of the jobs of the council is to make sure they can pretty much guide the missions of the FFs, which is probably the only peace of mind a mother like Rosemary gets. Yes, Tails has been doing this job for a few years, but does that make it free of danger? No. And what about Sally? Dislike her all we want but how is he going to get Sally to go along with it without going psycho and breaking off their friendship causing more drama(since she beleives she and Sonic are soulmates)? A direct severing of ties would probably not allow Sonic's leave to be a very amicable one.

If Sonic doesn't have a reason to break free from the control of the government and fights their enemy on his own, he's going to make a divide with the government that's not going to leave Knothole a very welcoming place to visit for future stories. That and I also think it explains how it's possible for them to manage this kind of lifestyle and gives an excuse for the team to travel together. Sonic for example usually ditches Amy and even in the comics she's not a major player. But in a comic book where you can't just do a huge timeskip into the next adventure, Amy needs to be there, and it needs to be accepted she's there to stay. Besides Sonic likes music even in the games. An ocassional gig once or twice a year if that is not going to affect Sonic's story and is perfectly in character for him to do. The goal if this were done wouldn't be to make Sonic's life about music, it's simply something they can ocassionally utilize to raise morale, awareness and fight Eggman wherever he pops up. And a great deal of doing that will have to be relying on them actually fighting.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Miko

[redmenace]

I can't see why Sonic would give a damn about it if he's willing to leave the kingdom in the first place. Actually giving a damn about anything, period, is unsettling to think about. I can see Tails rebelling against his parents as well and just go on the adventure. Amy doesn't need any of that nifty nafty. She'd just follow them.

I don't see why there needs to be a band involved when Sonic could just leave period. He didn't sign anything to the kingdom. He doesn't have any responsabilities either. He's not their servant, at all. It's not needed for him to break ties with anthing either. If I want to tour around the world or leave to another country, that doesn't mean I'm going to wage a war against my own country or I'm going to be seen as some kind of deserter if I ever drop by. It's not as if I'm betraying or anything. If there's more interesting things around the world for him to explore. I'm sure there are and we'd finally break free of the contrived and well known Acorn Kingdom. Probably give a fresh look at Sonic and the story.

Sonic might like music, but he likes adventure and unknown more. Why can't that be reason enough for him to leave for some vacation or tour around the world? I don't get why he can't leave because he feels like it. It's what he's been doing in the games, since the beginning. Yeah, sure, Archie isn't the games, but then why leave in the first place if the Acorn Kingdom is all we need to fuss about?

Edited July 27, 2009 by redmenace

[Picchi]

can't see why Sonic would give a damn about it if he's willing to leave the kingdom in the first place. Actually giving a damn about anything, period, is unsettling to think about.

If he wanted to just get up and leave and didn't care about severing ties with the other characters there (especially Sally), he would have done it a long time ago. You have to accept that on some level, Sonic has more connections and responsibilities in the comics than his game counterpart, and isn't going to just leave without an explanation or excuse.

It's not needed for him to break ties with anthing either. If I want to tour around the world or leave to another country, that doesn't mean I'm going to wage a war against my own country or I'm going to be seen as some kind of deserter if I ever drop by.

He probably would be seen as a deserter. the Kingdom of Acorn is waging war against all these villians, Sonic's pretty much the MVP, and then he just ups and leaves, without any explanation aside from "I don't feel like being here anymore." Yeah, that's gonna sit well with them. XD

Also, keep in mind that Tails' mom is in addition part of the government system. If Sonic left, even if Tails managed to sneak away with him, they'd have hell to pay that would restrict their freedoms even further. The only way your concept would work is if they avoided New Mobotropolis and all the Freedom Fighters that go there in order to keep doing their adventures; but while putting them on the backburner where Sonic occasionally visits may be fine, completely ditching them and every character thats in there just isn't realistic.

Amy doesn't need any of that nifty nafty. She'd just follow them.

And Sonic would ditch her too eventually if we're staying true to the game's format as you're implying we should, because he doesn't like being around her for that long.

Even Sonic Team has already acknowledged that they couldn't have their advertised mediums exactly like the games where Sonic was a lone adventurer who ditched his friends and depended on major time skips between adventures to see them. That was part of the reason why they stayed at Chris' house; because they needed something or someone to keep the supporting cast together long enough to have a consistant amount of adventures together.

Sonic might like music, but he likes adventure and unknown more.

Aaaaand if he joined Mina's band, he could be doing both and more securely might I add since he'd be getting paid to tour.

Why can't that be reason enough for him to leave for some vacation

Because then he'd be expected to come back there and we'd be back at square one.

or tour around the world

The last time he went on a world tour, he needed a reason to go out which was Naugus. The moment that was over, he came right back to the Freedom Fighters and stayed.

Yeah, sure, Archie isn't the games, but then why leave in the first place if the Acorn Kingdom is all we need to fuss about?

I'm not saying that its impossible for him to leave as much as the fact that he'd need to have a good enough excuse to leave on a note well enough for him to come back occasionally.

[redmenace]

If he wanted to just get up and leave and didn't care about severing ties with the other characters there (especially Sally), he would have done it a long time ago. You have to accept that on some level, Sonic has more connections and responsibilities in the comics than his game counterpart, and isn't going to just leave without an explanation or excuse.

I don't know, it just strikes me odd as why would he give a damn. And saying "I feel like seeing the world" is enough to me. If the kingdom isn't in the middle of a war of course. And if Eggman was doing mishief in other part of the world, I don't see the Kingdom pulling an arsehole move and forbid Sonic to go.

Also, keep in mind that Tails' mom is in addition part of the government system. If Sonic left, even if Tails managed to sneak away with him, they'd have hell to pay that would restrict their freedoms even further. The only way your concept would work is if they avoided New Mobotropolis and all the Freedom Fighters that go there in order to keep doing their adventures; but while putting them on the backburner where Sonic occasionally visits may be fine, completely ditching them and every character thats in there just isn't realistic.

No wonder I hate SatAM/Archie. The contriving and stricness of the plotline is overhwelming.

And Sonic would ditch her too eventually if we're staying true to the game's format as you're implying we should, because he doesn't like being around her for that long.

Never said she needed to with his consent. She doesn't have parents that would stop her and she always finds him one way or the other.

Aaaaand if he joined Mina's band, he could be doing both and more securely might I add since he'd be getting paid to tour.

Is he paid by the Acorns?

Because then he'd be expected to come back there and we'd be back at square one.

A tour eventually ends as well.

I don't see the necessity of having a tour for him to just scram. If Eggman is constructing crap on the other side of the world, it's not as if the King/Queen or the counselours or whoever is going to tell him that he can't go.

[Flyboy Fox]

Oh gosh no. I can only think of Sonic leaving the Freedom Fighters if he truly wanted the freedom to just go off and completely do his own thing. I can't picture him quitting one group just to join another. I can imagine him jamming with Mina's band, but joining them full-time? Nah. I think he'd get bored with the routine.

[Blazey Firekitty]

My personal issue with the Archie Sonic comic isn't one of "Should Sonic stay in this group or join another one," but one of "Sonic is stuck in one spot all the time." I feel like we barely ever get to see what the rest of Mobius is like.

[Picchi]

I don't know, it just strikes me odd as why would he give a damn.

Again, this is a different Sonic than the game version, who has a lot more connections and resposibilities to where he lives, so you can't treat him with the same assumptions as to what would and wouldn't be in character.

And saying "I feel like seeing the world" is enough to me. If the kingdom isn't in the middle of a war of course.

Eggman is only one of the problems they face now. They're still in middle of fighting evil queens, demigod/kingpin mammoths along with occasional evil version of themselves. Now that's not to say that by that token Sonic NEEDS to stay, but admittingly they are in a war, and with multiple villians no less.

And if Eggman was doing mishief in other part of the world, I don't see the Kingdom pulling an arsehole move and forbid Sonic to go.

For a long period of time with no explanation other than the fact he's bored? With ALL the villians they're fighting now, especially? I don't think so. Also, the counsel's tried forced the characters to prioritize and not fight other villians before, and Sonic's been punished before for his actions. Not long ago they nearly had Sally arrested for disobeying their orders.

What makes you think they won't do the same to Sonic when he pulls on the leash to hard?

Never said she needed to with his consent.

Neither does she in the games. Doesn't mean Sonic won't ditch her regardless under your logic. Perhaps he arguably wouldn't under the logics of the Archie comic's storyline, but then you'd have acknowledge the other problems in his character that come with trying to make a pro-SoJ storyline.

Is he paid by the Acorns?

Its never said whether he is or isn't but its possible. But even he were hypothetically, why would they pay him to ditch them all to do his own thing?

A tour eventually ends as well.

And then it starts back up again. The end of the tour would probably be Sonic and co.'s time to visit and catch up with the people in New Mobotropolis as again, its unrealistic that he's going to completely ditch these characters. However, once that bit's over they can go right back to what they're doing without getting flack from anyone.

I can imagine him jamming with Mina's band, but joining them full-time? Nah. I think he'd get bored with the routine.

Sonic's supposed to be an adventurer. I don't see how he'd get bored with Mina's routine when he's managed to stay in one place for a prolonged period of time without much complaining. Its not like music and touring would be all he's doing, the band is supposed to facilitate his need to be out and about and have adventures. If it fulfills all these things, and better than New Mobotropolis, I don't see why he'd get tired of it.

I can't picture him quitting one group just to join another.

Again, many reasons can be developed as to why he'd leave. Problems with the Kingdom of Acorn's counsel being one of them, perhaps.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Picchi

[Sega DogTagz]

Tails and Amy might, but Vector and Mina sure as heck don't. Also for the characters who DO have 24/7 access to him, their ability to connect with is again, still very limited because of Sally.

So if your main problem (from a characterization standpoint) is Sally, why are you uprooting half of the cast to address it? Sonic never runs away from a real problem (although he does approach them in his own special Sonic tangent) and Sally should be no different. Rather than leaving the situation open ended, wouldn

Edited July 27, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[Picchi]

Bunnie

Her role to Sonics character is the simplest to describe because it is very complementary to what she was designed to be. She is the lone Heavy Hitter of the group outside of Sonic. That being said, it allows for the blue hedgehog to be hurt. Archie Sonic has been on the bad end of some major and epic beat downs, quarrels that have undoubtedly hardened his resolve and shown us more about his strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. In fact, we usually learn more about Sonic as the end result of a butt-kicking then we do at any other point. Even though the contact is indirect, the fact that a character like Bunnie can finish the job allows the writers to mercilessly pummel away on Sonic and show us what he can be under pressure. (like the Home arc w/ the nuclear missiles). Then there

Edited July 28, 2009 by Picchi

[Miko]

All it would take is one internet user to draw the connection to the SU concept and a whole new generation of Sonic fans would be open to cringe at the basic idea.

Because most of the fandom is on the interwebz. Besides, if you for example alluded to a gig off panel, show them packing up from one at the start of a story, getting ready for one only to find Eggman, etc the idea is quickly conveyed that yeah they do it, but it's not going to take the focus off the action. That and ON the internet have the ability to discuss how the concept would be handled with creatives to have any fears dispelled. While the offline fandom doesn't have this, most of the targetted audience won't remember SU anyway. That and they could address the issue in a Sonic gram (albiet incredibly unnecessary).

Antoine still is a walking target for Sonic, and it isn't rare to have him cracking jokes at his expense.

But how does that show Antoine is essential to Sonic's life and vice versa? It may show something about his character, but nothing characters like Knux couldn't show off occassionally. Sonic teased Knuckles even when he was Enerjak for goodness sake.

They have done their jobs as main characters in the past

I think I'm going to be as bold to say none of the SatAM cast were adequate supporting characters in that they could carry a mutual bond with Sonic. It seems from what I'm getting, that Sonic is only valued as an icon to these characters, much like how Sonic is valued by his fans. We already have a Sonic fan in the games (two if you count Tails who presently in the games wants to establish his place as a real friend who Sonic actually needs). I'd be less inclined even to say that's a good thing because that kind of role doesn't show how the personality of a person shapes your life. It's impersonal and they don't even have to be there to achieve being an icon. MJ will still be an icon to many people, even now that he's dead. But for his family and close friends, it will inevitably be harder because his personality actually helped to shape their lives. We do not need several supporting charachters who harbor that same sort of relationship to Sonic. I don't honestly care if he grew up with them. It doesn't change the fact that it's all he is to them in the end.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Miko

[Sega DogTagz]

I guess we are kinda still on topic, so I will keep going.

Number one. You're just emphasizing the fact he only needs her for her combat abilities. This doesn't explain at all why Sonic would need her personality and why she'd be little more than the background fighting fodder she already is in the comics.

Number two. She was only a relationship figure to Sonic because she was desperate for someone to like her. It didn't have anything to do with what Sonic could provide for her character.

Bunnie may be level headed enough in some contexts, but then so are the other characters. To infer that Bunnie is level headed all the time would imply that like Sally, she'd be a jack-of-all trades foil to Sonic and we don't need that.

You never said that I could not use indirect impacts. It just so happens that one of the pluses of Bunnies character are the particular combat skills that allow for Sonic to experience a great deal more character development through an increase in negative experiences. We would not have gotten to see the other side of Sonic at the end of the Mecha Madness arc if Bunnie had not been able to fight him off for as long as she did. They often would not get into such outrageous situations where Sonic has to think on his feet, if it was not for knowing that you had Bunnie as backup. Indirect Character Development (even through combat) is still Character Development. We learn more about Sonic as a result and that is a quality that no other character in Knothole can provide like Bunnie.

And Bunnies level head hardly puts her on the tier of Sally (whom also boasts assertiveness and a ton of cunning). The Rabot simply fills the gap on the missions that pit herself, Sonic and Antoine (or any lower tier fighters) as the field unit. She isn

Edited July 28, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[Miko]

You never said that I could not use indirect impacts.

I'd think it's implicative though when trying to explain why Sonic the PERSON is important to their lives and vice versa. Sonic serving as an indirect impact in the way MJs may to a fan is indirect and impersonal. It doesn't require his precence even to sculpt the life of the fan in question.

It just so happens that one of the pluses of Bunnies character are the particular combat skills that allow for Sonic to experience a great deal more character development through an increase in negative experiences... We would not have gotten to see the other side of Sonic at the end of the Mecha Madness arc if Bunnie had not been able to fight him off for as long as she did.

Even if her combat skills ARE that good it's not Bunnie's personality that's essential. Secondly Amy took out a whole Army of Swatbots and let's not forget Knuckles. She is deffinately NOT the only Heavy hitter on the team. As for any sheilds or canon blasts, its not as though Tails hasn't invented similar things with his mechs when necessary. Contrary to what you've been saying, Sonic doesn't need her as backup in particular to do outrageous things. Sonic probably doesn't need anyone really. All you're doing is saying character X allowed a circumstance to occur that developed Sonic. This is not saying how Bunnie at ALL is essential as a person to Sonic's life. That and the angle could easily be written around. If Bunnie didn't exist, they could've simply introduced Knux a lot earlier on in Mecha Madness and they eventually had him fight Sonic, turn into mecha Knuckles and fight him again.

She isn

Edited July 28, 2009 by Miko

[Picchi]

I know we're only arguing two extremes at this point, but you know, the topic also asked if people could see this being at the very least a part time gig. Whether someone wrote it to happen or not one day, Sonic would theoretically have to start out that way to at the very least test the waters of the concept.

I'm actually more interested in seeing what kind of stories could be done with the idea. Given Sonic's interest in music, I think its pretty obvious it'd be possible for him to join at least on occasion, or make it so that the band didn't have to venture out as much because of his popularity.

[Sega DogTagz]

1 thing I want to address real quick...

That and the angle could easily be written around.

That is not a defense. By that logic, I can retcon (or instantly fix) Sonics relationship with Sally and all of this would become mute. The simple fact that you can possibly dodge a situation with some cleaver writing beforehand does not remove the significance of the act the character did for the actual story.

I'd think it's implicative though when trying to explain why Sonic the PERSON is important to their lives and vice versa. Sonic serving as an indirect impact in the way MJs may to a fan is indirect and impersonal. It doesn't require his precence even to sculpt the life of the fan in question.

Even if her combat skills ARE that good it's not Bunnie's personality that's essential. Secondly Amy took out a whole Army of Swatbots and let's not forget Knuckles. She is deffinately NOT the only Heavy hitter on the team. As for any sheilds or canon blasts, its not as though Tails hasn't invented similar things with his mechs when necessary. Contrary to what you've been saying, Sonic doesn't need her as backup in particular to do outrageous things. Sonic probably doesn't need anyone really. All you're doing is saying character X allowed a circumstance to occur that developed Sonic. This is not saying how Bunnie at ALL is essential as a person to Sonic's life. That and the angle could easily be written around. If Bunnie didn't exist, they could've simply introduced Knux a lot earlier on in Mecha Madness and they eventually had him fight Sonic, turn into mecha Knuckles and fight him again.

Lets looks at Mecha Madness in that regard.

Amy wasn

Edited July 28, 2009 by Sega DogTagz