Should Sonic join Mina's band in Archie?

[Miko]

That is not a defense. By that logic, I can retcon (or instantly fix) Sonics relationship with Sally and all of this would become mute. The simple fact that you can possibly dodge a situation with some cleaver writing beforehand does not remove the significance of the act the character did for the actual story.

Sorry but it is a defense. Any character could have been written into that circumstance. That character's personality, what could makes them distinct and therefore special to someone has nothing to do with starting off some plotline. Nor would most characters know that to have any grounds to appreciate it. Second of all, the Anti arc did not need ANY character to occur. As a matter of fact Patch was supposed to BE real Antoine and the whole Antoine/Patch swap was a bigass plothole. Read the story "One Part Oh la la, two parts treachery" and ask yourself how the hell "Patch" knows of Bunnie and Antoine's past when they got together as a couple officially around the time of Endgame as well as his childhood with Prime Tatiana and Prime Sonic? Antoine was actually the WORST character to pull off that cheap stunt with given it'd been established that of all of them, he WAS the real Antoine. So if plotholes are ok to use, then by your logic ANYONE could've triggered to do this kind of story.

Knuckles arrival was delayed for good reason. He was far away at the time.

A couple of things.

a. If the FFs hadn't been there to reject Sonic's decision he wouldn't have gone angrily to the gym to be conked out by Nack in the first place, and someone with a better sense of responsibility would've been guarding the prison.

b. If Knuckles hadn't been able to make it in time, they would've simply used the portable roboticizer sooner, something they did when Knux was conked out and they were out of options anyway.

Why do we presently need them? Explain their present value to the story. Can we get by writing story arcs without them? Yes. Do we need Bunnie? No. I liked Bunnie up until a point in the Sonic comics, but the fact remains she doesn't have a place in Sonic's life in terms of her personality. Sonic was also a heavy hitter and if I want to get technical, if he hits something at enough speed it'd probably acheive creating more damage than Bunnie could deliver in a punch.

And looking for reasons why Bunnie is essential to Sonics life is a bit much to ask. Your mother isn

Edited July 29, 2009 by Miko

[Sega DogTagz]

Sorry but it is a defense. Any character could have been written into that circumstance. That character's personality, what could makes them distinct and therefore special to someone has nothing to do with starting off some plotline. Nor would most characters know that to have any grounds to appreciate it. Second of all, the Anti arc did not need ANY character to occur. As a matter of fact Patch was supposed to BE real Antoine and the whole Antoine/Patch swap was a bigass plothole. Read the story "One Part Oh la la, two parts treachery" and ask yourself how the hell "Patch" knows of Bunnie and Antoine's past when they got together as a couple officially around the time of Endgame as well as his childhood with Prime Tatiana and Prime Sonic? Antoine was actually the WORST character to pull off that cheap stunt with given it'd been established that of all of them, he WAS the real Antoine. So if plotholes are ok to use, then by your logic ANYONE could've triggered to do this kind of story.

Gee, Antoine really strikes me as the type of character that kept a Diary. Patch could have just studied up on his mission like the good military man he is. You cant make wild claims like that because of some small easily explainable inconsistencies. Also, who is to say the situation wasn

Edited July 29, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[Miko]

Sonic is an idol, but he is so much more than that to the people he is close to.

But I'm arguing he's not close to any of them, save maybe Sally and even with her it's not a mutual sense of closeness.

As you put it, Sally is in love (or thinks she is in love) with Sonics qualities. Features that come from his personality, not his idol-hood.

No, it is still part of his idolhood for reasons already explained. If all you do is admire features of his personality without them having a positive and persistent role to play in your life then it's still part of idol-hood. You nor I, no matter how much we ever get to learn about a huge star and what their personalities were like, will never have had the actual experience of that person's personality actually having a distinct, positive and persistent interaction with our lives. That is the difference between an person's closest fans and a person's closeness with those who are genuinely close to them.

1.) Sonic had most of those things because of his personality, not his idol status. Antoine wanted things Sonic achieved through just being himself.

2.) Now I can say Sonic is the best guy friend Twan ever had. Lets chock that up onto the list and donate 2 wings of the Salvation Army to Sonic. Where is that hogs Halo?

3.) Sonic will always stop to help someone with his legs. But he will literally belittle himself to help his real friends. When was the last time we saw Sonic take away from his own ego to help someone? I assure you it only occurs when Sonic is emotionally close to the person he is helping.

1. Antoine didn't want Sonic's personality, he wanted the things he got with it. And even if he did want Sonic's personality, it's not the same as Sonic's personality positively, persistently and and distinctively impacting his life. And actually let me say this. A good number of all the things Antoine wanted like his father's approval and maybe Sonic's fame had much to do with Sonic's physical contributions on the feild and how that all helped to shape the war. Part of Sally's reasons also lied in this too, and at this point, given how reckless they whimsically make her to suit the plot this is probably the only consistent thing for her to admire about him.

2. Sonic may be the closest thing to a friend Ant's ever had, but that doesn't mean he's actually close to Ant.

3. I really don't see Sonic choking in his Ego to help Antoine help his dad. And secondly, if you're going to say that, you need to provide evidence of Sonic having a use for that person that is persistent, positive and distinct. If you cannnot do that, then you have not provided the basis for any bond to exist. Thus even if he DID do that it'd be OOC.

Sonic has been to jail MULTIPLE TIMES (not to mention a life sentence in the Gulag) and your telling me the situation has not become restrictive enough to understand?! Please, we are talking Sonic the Hedgehog with nothing more than a 4x6 room.

1. Sonic didn't learn Sally was bad news after a slap and her essentially ditching him when his Uncle was roboticized, and he grew so desperate he stole the sword. Sonic can be INCREDIBLY dense, perhaps to the point of OOCness. Sonic has a hard time learning the lesson. If it's a major lesson to be learned, often times someone has to prod him along in figuring it out. When it comes to for example his level of insensitivity toward's Tails' feelings Tails has to outwardly confront him about his mistakes and not thinking things through enough before he ever considers what his decisions mean for him and all of those around him. Sonic also has yet to admit a few things to himself yet, for example LIKING fights, not just doing it for justice's sake.

2. For one thing Eggman doesn't seem to roam the world to the extent he does in the games since he has an empire. Which is OOC at this point given the fact that he's a mad scientist, not a dictator villain. With the degree of immaturity and perhaps wavered degrees of sanity, while the mad doctor kind of villain can acheive a lot of things, a world conquest or even a large empire is a no as a mad doctor can barely keep themselves in check. My hope is that Ian will finally realize this now that the Iron Queen has taken over the empire and leave Eggman to roam the world in his never ending quest to make an empire. If Eggman's the kind of character whose in different parts of the world all the time, Sonic's got to stop him and the government for instance says no, I can see Sonic getting up to put an end to it all himself.

3. Why does he stay in New Mobitropolis? With the exception of Sally there is NO ONE there that he's really close with, which makes it OOC for him to stick around for them. And even then when Sonic's demonstrated he won't be bound to something he doesn't like for her.

Your talking about an idea to fix the series that hinges on an input that would fix the series as it is now. Good writing. I say cut out the middle man and make things easy. Why would you go through all the effort, all the changes, when you could just have the series be good again the way it is?

On top of that, the band idea is a short term solution at best that only avoids the real problem.

Short term? Who said they have to go back to New Mobitropolis eventually? It doesn't avoid the real problem, it removes it. government with a convulted backstory and past, which is not as simple to understand for children as opposed to say a monarchy, removes the real problem by cutting off the dead weight not demanded by SEGA and works with the cast they've demanded to be there.

I get it. You do not think the characters add to Sonic in a meaningful way. While I disagree with your conclusion, you are really not offering any reasons why other characters could do their job better. If you want to shoot down Bunnie or Antoine as a character, Show me how Knuckles and Amy are any better.

1. Bunnie and Antoine aren't mandated characters. So they are dead weight the comic doesn't have to deal with. Knuckles and Amy at worst are mandated dead weight. There's really no point in even debating this because there's not really a choice in the matter.

2. I'll go back using Amy to an example I'd already mentioned. Amy is the kind of character who I could see telling Sonic when his joking's gone too far. When it comes to Knux, I could admittingly see him as someone who ventures off to do his own thing if necessary. SEGA seems very flexible with Knuckles, and Knuckles is established to generally have an agenda that has little to do with Sonic unless SEGA makes some story to ouright ignore his characterization.

Tails does interact with Sonic daily and look where that got them. They were throwing fists.

Yes but that was because of Fiona under the pretense of Sonic's teasing and not helping his parents in jail. But even if they did go a few rounds it's not as if I couldn't see Amy putting a stop to it.

Amy hardly qualifies for spending time with Sonic since blue makes it a point to minimize contact with her in any way possible.

I really don't see the comic Sonic going to the extent the game Sonic does to get rid of her. He may be annoyed with her ocassional allusions to a relationship, but running and hiding? ducking and dodging? I think that's overembellishing the circumstance to it's game situation. If you're going to go that far you shouldn't then on the flip side argue "Archie Sonic's not the game Sonic" at your convenience.

If there is a problem with the cast we have now we can fix it rather than the more drawn out process of swapping characters and fixing them.

First of all there's hardly a swap and character. 80% of the cast I made mention of presently would be of characters that ARE already regulars that we can fix and are mandated by SEGA anyway.

There are still forces present that challenge freedoms in that world. It just so happens the story is between Eggman Empires at the moment, which is often the case.

That logic passed away when a similar process was used and failed to keep Sally dead in Endgame. As I recall, there was a ton of people that wanted her head and yet she is still here. Also, while the publishers can change course on a whim, we the consumer will be handcuffed to whatever decision they decide to go with. We live with it.

1. Sally's consumers were not the reason why she was saved. SEGA was the reason. SEGA had demanded her being saved because she was receiving promotions in Australia and STI was considering the whole group of Freedom Fighters (minus perhaps Ant) for a game (the now trashed Sonic Mars game, which would become Sonic Xtreme featuring Tiara not Sally). In today's situation SEGA seems to have no problem with the comics adapting more game elements and more importantly, it would seem like to see the characters reflect the kind of personality we've seen them display in the games. For example: Amy who was pretty much a wallflower compared to herself now, would just sit in the background and not even attempt a move at Sonic. Now she's working much harder to impress him and to make little hints about her interests for marriage. Even if you want to argue they "weren't" like that, that doesn't mean they can't develop to resemble their game selves as SEGA sees fit or simply because it makes little sense to target the game fans and leave the characters detatched from who they are to a sizeable degree.

[Sega DogTagz]

But I'm arguing he's not close to any of them, save maybe Sally and even with her it's not a mutual sense of closeness.

No, it is still part of his idolhood for reasons already explained. If all you do is admire features of his personality without them having a positive and persistent role to play in your life then it's still part of idol-hood. You nor I, no matter how much we ever get to learn about a huge star and what their personalities were like, will never have had the actual experience of that person's personality actually having a distinct, positive and persistent interaction with our lives. That is the difference between an person's closest fans and a person's closeness with those who are genuinely close to them.

For a good while there it was obviously mutual. Sonic had no problem returning Sallys affections.

Their interaction did display a more daily grind as well. Sally was not admiring Sonic from afar, but was rather in his face which is displayed by how confused and upset Sonic was about her behavior. Sally in the very least has a significant impact on who Sonic is on a personal level. (although I still contest all the FFs do). They most certainly played apart in each others lives. There is no way that it was all idol-hood.

1. Antoine didn't want Sonic's personality, he wanted the things he got with it. And even if he did want Sonic's personality, it's not the same as Sonic's personality positively, persistently and and distinctively impacting his life. And actually let me say this. A good number of all the things Antoine wanted like his father's approval and maybe Sonic's fame had much to do with Sonic's physical contributions on the feild and how that all helped to shape the war. Part of Sally's reasons also lied in this too, and at this point, given how reckless they whimsically make her to suit the plot this is probably the only consistent thing for her to admire about him.

2. Sonic may be the closest thing to a friend Ant's ever had, but that doesn't mean he's actually close to Ant.

3. I really don't see Sonic choking in his Ego to help Antoine help his dad. And secondly, if you're going to say that, you need to provide evidence of Sonic having a use for that person that is persistent, positive and distinct. If you cannnot do that, then you have not provided the basis for any bond to exist. Thus even if he DID do that it'd be OOC.

1. He wanted both. He wished for Sonics courage and bravery as well. Traits that he came to know of from multiple first hand up close experiences with Sonic.

2. I bet that fact makes Antoine very appreciative of Sonic.

3. Sonic did check his ego when he was helping Ant. twice actually. First, he agreed to raise Antoines hero status within Knothole (which in turn diminishes his own) in a plan that had himself taking a fall against his friend. (Anti-Sonic has many of the same prowess-es of the real deal, so technically he was taking the loss as himself, disgracing Sonics everywhere). Secondly, he allowed Ant to clock Anti Sonic instead of swooping in and hogging the glory himself. All this happened even though Anti-Sonic is one of Sonics worst enemies (so says Zonic). And we all know how much Sonic likes to rub things into his Anti selfs face. He clearly left his ego at the door to help his friend. Show me that kind of resolve when he is helping someone he is not close to.... it will not be there.

1. Sonic didn't learn Sally was bad news after a slap and her essentially ditching him when his Uncle was roboticized, and he grew so desperate he stole the sword. Sonic can be INCREDIBLY dense, perhaps to the point of OOCness. Sonic has a hard time learning the lesson. If it's a major lesson to be learned, often times someone has to prod him along in figuring it out. When it comes to for example his level of insensitivity toward's Tails' feelings Tails has to outwardly confront him about his mistakes and not thinking things through enough before he ever considers what his decisions mean for him and all of those around him. Sonic also has yet to admit a few things to himself yet, for example LIKING fights, not just doing it for justice's sake.

Sonic might not even be that dense. He is just often blinded by his own determination. He has never had a problem learning a lesson, he just does not let simple policies and laws get in his way and is willing to pay the price when he returns home.

Seeing as how the chains around his neck are made of putty anyway (there is really no way they can enforce things on Sonic before hand, even Nicole failed to bring the hog down), Sonics restrictions hardly hinder his actions at all. If he has to do something that the kingdom dosnt like (such as giving Mogal the emerald) then he willl do it and pay the price later.

The Kingdom is hardly the godlike burden you make it out to be. If Sonic wants do something, he does it (or it happens anyway). The Kingdom could not hold him back if they wanted too.

2. For one thing Eggman doesn't seem to roam the world to the extent he does in the games since he has an empire. Which is OOC at this point given the fact that he's a mad scientist, not a dictator villain. With the degree of immaturity and perhaps wavered degrees of sanity, while the mad doctor kind of villain can acheive a lot of things, a world conquest or even a large empire is a no as a mad doctor can barely keep themselves in check. My hope is that Ian will finally realize this now that the Iron Queen has taken over the empire and leave Eggman to roam the world in his never ending quest to make an empire. If Eggman's the kind of character whose in different parts of the world all the time, Sonic's got to stop him and the government for instance says no, I can see Sonic getting up to put an end to it all himself.

It is not OOC for Archie Eggy though. He always stays relatively put, barring some special occasion. Its not like he was not aiming for world domination anyway. He had under-bosses everywhere since the early parts of the series.

All your doing is comparing him too Sega Eggy and complaining about the inconsistencies. They are two different continuities.

3. Why does he stay in New Mobitropolis? With the exception of Sally there is NO ONE there that he's really close with, which makes it OOC for him to stick around for them. And even then when Sonic's demonstrated he won't be bound to something he doesn't like for her.

Again, it is not OOC for Archie Sonic because he has proven time and time again that he is a Home-boy with no intention on leaving.

On top of that, there is always that far-fetched idea that he is close to the other FFs, which would make a lot of sense seeing as to why he stays around.

Short term? Who said they have to go back to New Mobitropolis eventually? It doesn't avoid the real problem, it removes it. government with a convulted backstory and past, which is not as simple to understand for children as opposed to say a monarchy, removes the real problem by cutting off the dead weight not demanded by SEGA and works with the cast they've demanded to be there.

If the tour takes Sonic away from New Mobotroplis, never to return, than he is basically running away from a problem. When, if ever, has Archie Sonic run away from a problem?

That would be OOC.

1. Bunnie and Antoine aren't mandated characters. So they are dead weight the comic doesn't have to deal with. Knuckles and Amy at worst are mandated dead weight. There's really no point in even debating this because there's not really a choice in the matter.

2. I'll go back using Amy to an example I'd already mentioned. Amy is the kind of character who I could see telling Sonic when his joking's gone too far. When it comes to Knux, I could admittingly see him as someone who ventures off to do his own thing if necessary. SEGA seems very flexible with Knuckles, and Knuckles is established to generally have an agenda that has little to do with Sonic unless SEGA makes some story to ouright ignore his characterization.

1. No, at worse Amy and Knuckles are mandated characters that are so ineffective around Sonic that they must be gimped and changed to the point where they are no longer themselves. Then Sega revokes the license because you butchered their cherished franchise. Bunnie and Twan can be gimped all they want to add to Sonic and Archie wont get bashed by Sega for it. (not that Buns and Ant need it though).

2. Nothing Amy has ever done shows that she can stand up to Sonic and stop him from picking on others. She is not capable of taking initiative like that. If the writers wanted to reflect the games more, they would do another adaption. Now your just throwing Sega personalities into the Archie variants bodies, which in itself is a bad idea seeing as how each character is different from their games selves.

Yes but that was because of Fiona under the pretense of Sonic's teasing and not helping his parents in jail. But even if they did go a few rounds it's not as if I couldn't see Amy putting a stop to it.

Want to back that up? Amy would not be able to stop that fight in a peaceful matter. She would have had to flatten both of them, which in the end, is worse than letting them duke it out because it hinders them from solving their differences.

You being able to see Amy doing things means nothing. When has Amy ever shown the leadership, authority or ability to look Sonic in the eye and tell him what to do?

I really don't see the comic Sonic going to the extent the game Sonic does to get rid of her. He may be annoyed with her ocassional allusions to a relationship, but running and hiding? ducking and dodging? I think that's overembellishing the circumstance to it's game situation. If you're going to go that far you shouldn't then on the flip side argue "Archie Sonic's not the game Sonic" at your convenience.

Archie Sonic is not Game Sonic, but they both Avoid Amy like the plague. They just go about it in different ways. Where as Sega Sonic takes a more direct approach, by rapidly changing his latitude, Archie Sonic complains and groans and makes it clear that he would rather work (or be) with someone else.

If you want another recent example, look at his reaction to being the distraction for Amy the flower girl. Not to happy about that turn of events.

(and I never said it was as bad as the games, just that you would have to dig pretty deep to find a conversation between them that didn

Edited July 30, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[Miko]

I wrote pretty much all this early in the morning. So if some parts kinda seem a little ...in need of editing now you know why.

Their interaction did display a more daily grind as well. Sally was not admiring Sonic from afar, but was rather in his face which is displayed by how confused and upset Sonic was about her behavior. Sally in the very least has a significant impact on who Sonic is on a personal level. (although I still contest all the FFs do). They most certainly played apart in each others lives. There is no way that it was all idol-hood.

Idolhood doesn't have to be a matter of admiring from afar. It has to do with how meaningful the person is. A person whom you admire, but has no aspects of their personality that mingle and make more functional your life is nothing more than a person you admire, even though you may see each other everyday. You're thinking of idolhood in purely the celebrity kind of fashion and ignoring day to day idolhood. For example there may be a popular girl or guy on campus or in Sally's case a girl crushes on a guy she sees everyday but the guy's personality doesn't really add to her life being more functional in any way. Many relationships are forged by the girl or guy in question idolizing the other. They admire aspects of that person but for whatever reason, it doesn't actually improve their lives. It's just there or it serves to their detriment. I'm not arguing whether Sonic cares about Sally. I acknowledge he does. But there's no real basis for Sally to actually love Sonic. At best it's a one sided love on Sonic's end with Sally hero worshipping because Sonic's the guy who can save her whenever she's in danger to act out her hero-princess fairytale fantasies.

1. He wanted both. He wished for Sonics courage and bravery as well. Traits that he came to know of from multiple first hand up close experiences with Sonic.

1. Admiring a person's personality traits is not the same as them having a place in mingling with and making more functional your life. You can observe the most popular classmate and see how reckless brash and outspoken they are. You can wish that you could be that way too and maybe you interact with this person a bit on a daily basis. But it doesn't mean that you actually love this person. It doesn't mean that their personality has made it's way in your daily life to make it a lot more functional. So even if you want to say Ant admired Sonic's personality it doesn't mean Sonic's traits mingled with his.

2. You seem to think a relationship is like a down payment. Citing from the past a bunch of stuff that should be the present basis for their relationship. What does Antoine presently need Sonic in his life for. Antoine may be very thankful for what good Sonic has done like the rest of the world but like any idolizer, his life has no basis to actually fall apart without Sonic. Why? Because Sonic's personality doesn't regularly contribute anything to it.

3. Antoine's coming to know his own bravery and bringing it to full circle was in part with the help of Bunnie. Ant needed Sonic's help in making his FATHER see what he understood.

3. Sonic did check his ego when he was helping Ant. twice actually.

1. Ok I read 112 and to be honest, I kinda skimmed this issue when I originally read i and was under the impression Antoine may have stopped Sonic in the forest and told him of his plight. But here's the deal. How does that person's personality keep Sonic in check. Let's use Sally for example. If Sonic wants to jump in the fray and it's a stupid move, Sally will grab Sonic by the arm and express to him a sense of logic. Sonic checked his own ego, Antoine didn't have to step in to be his voice of reason. Point being? Sonic didn't need Antoine to be there keep his ego in check and this story therefore doesn't show.

2. Supposing Ant did snag Sonic in the forest and alert Sonic of his problems does this mean it's a regular occurence? No. Does this mean Sally for instance couldn't do it? No. There's nothing really distinct in Ant's being able to check Sonic's ego to make him highly valued. And if you don't have a specific instance in which he could keep Sonic in line, he like Bunnie runs the risk of being Sally mach...II. Or would that make him mach III?

Sonic might not even be that dense. He is just often blinded by his own determination. He has never had a problem learning a lesson, he just does not let simple policies and laws get in his way and is willing to pay the price when he returns home.

Never having a problem learning the lesson? He still hasn't learned his lesson with Sally. And if that price was prison for 1-5 years or his permanent removal from the FFs for disobeying the government then what? Sonic busts out and leaves New Mobitropolis a fugitive? Now that'd make the cast he left behind with an easy means of getting touched on again. As a reader, Sonic's not a free spirit who can run off wherever he wants to chase adventure as he pleases. He doesn't do his own thing. His missions are with the agenda and motives of a government in mind. Maybe this would be ok if he were purely in it for the justice and didn't like beating to sound of his own drum but he does, even in Archie.

Sonic may be too dense to realize it, but I know he's chained to the government. As a matter of fact most people today don't recognize how many freedom's have been lost compared to in the past. The government is associated with the comic's convulted backstory and the locale is just not all that fun to get into. I could see if it was like Metropolis or Gotham but it's a boring brightly colored world where nothing bad ever really happens. There is nothing about this city that's remotely interesting, And given the nature of their enviornment, trying to turn Sonic into Batman is kind of a no-go at this point, only because a super powered hedgehog fighting crime. Gee wizz, wonder who THAT could be. Maybe the one who didn't have to wear a mask and is so fast he can appear like he's in 2 places at once. The present mythos is boring. Seeing Sonic become a vigilanti would be better than this. But God forbid in that happy joyous utopia.

It is not OOC for Archie Eggy though. He always stays relatively put, barring some special occasion. Its not like he was not aiming for world domination anyway. He had under-bosses everywhere since the early parts of the series.

What's OOC for Archie Eggman is for him to be able to keep for a prolonged period of time an empire when he's more of a mad doctor villain. That is to say, he's the kind of villain who probably has a hard time keeping himself in check, let alone a whole empire. Even if Eggman DID control an empire, it wouldn't be for long and most of his time would probably roaming the world for a place to crash at the expense of the natives.

If the tour takes Sonic away from New Mobotroplis, never to return, than he is basically running away from a problem. When, if ever, has Archie Sonic run away from a problem?

Did I say Sonic would leave never to return? No. He could visit for awhile, I guess. But I see most of his adventures taking place journeying the world as a free spirit. It's not running away from the problem. The problem is having to be at the beck and call of a government when Sonic loves and enjoys freedom to do whatever he wants. Some things are just not for everyone. He's never internalized how little freedom he actually has and how if opinions collide and he disagrees, the government has the authority to remove all his freedoms for doing what he thinks is right. THAT is the problem and unless he becomes a pure anarchist, it's not going to be solved. As a matter of fact, I have to wonder how Sonic IS this dense actually. He loves freedom, he loves adventure, he doesn't have a connection with the FFs or his family for them to make him stay, and even with Sally he'd risk his relationship with her to go continue adventuring. What the hell is honestly stopping him from dealing with the restrictiveness of a government?

I just don't see it working. Sonic hasn't realized most likely because Eggman's never been on the move and because the government's always caved into him because up until recently, it was ran by the Acorns and they really REALLY like him. New Mobitropolis is boring everone's already won their homes, "freedom" and families. Why doesn't Ian just go back to SatAM if he's going to do the exact same thing all over again but make everything bleed-your-eyes happy? Oh Enerjak comes, or maybe a Nack breaks free but they don't really stick as part of the city's mythos. They don't persistently affect the state of the city. There's really no need to focus on it. Being it's also a republic Sonic's not going to be able to do anything if say, some kingpin was elected in office because it was on the consent of the people. He'd have no choice but to find a way to politely break away from the government while visiting. Say he does do something about it, then we go back to square one with the boring happy utopia. That, or he could go batman, where EVERYONE'S first guess would be him and he'd be bombarded like crazy 24/7.

All the action is pretty much outside this place unless Eggman shows up (and why he already had an empire right so unless he's hellbent on world domination (which you say he's not) why is he bothering them). So just go where the action is instead of loitering around that boring dump. Batman and Superman have a city which has an interesting and easy to get into allure to it because the villains are all part of the city. This doesn't. This is boring. This location is a pefect happyland and most importantly it's home to far too many main characters for a main cast and almost none of them do a damn thing to make Sonic's world more functional in terms of personality. In short spoonfed until we choke with an overabundance of characters who are better suited as secondary or tertiary characters filling up the spots as main characters. Ian tries to rectify the problem by killing of characters no one cares about. But the complaining of so many characters has mostly to do with the ones getting upchucked. Who would've honestly gave a damn if Connery or even Tommy just faded into obscurity NEVER to be seen again?

Archie Sonic is not Game Sonic, but they both Avoid Amy like the plague.

And yet when forced to work with Amy he can get along with her fairly decently. Looking at how they handled their trip to Moebius, they can work fairly well. Yes, Amy can get a little carried away when it comes to Sonic BUT that gives a calling for a character to intervene and thereby become useful. There seems to be this phobia of a team that has problems when in fact it's the problems that will ultimately make them useful to one another.

That Sega tidbit right there is definitive proof that there is more things at play to make changes (or keep the status quo) than just a revolting fanbase.

Yeah but prove they'd have a problem in this context: Where the cast size is reduced to a much more manageable degree with most of THEIR characters and to advertise a status quo that is more akin to their games.

That would be extremely OOC for both Archie Sonic and Knuckles.

I'm actually of the impression at this point OOCness keeps them there. Why does Sonic stay besides the fact Eggman doesn't move around? He doesn't have any loved ones he'd stop his thirst for adventure for. For Knux, his whole leaving the island currently was part of acknowledging that he needed to stop thinking on one tangent about the island and recognize the whole world was suffering.

Also, as I said before, playing with the Sega characters is also akin to playing with fire. If you get it wrong, then there is no coming back.

Well technically if it doesn't work you could go back to snoozeville.

Now this is purely on the idea that the comic is going into the direction of the games. Supposing we argue "the games really were never big on marketting on behalf of good storytelling" fine. But really if he MUST go live in a city, I'd rather one that wouldn't be able to immediately make the connection of who he is as he fights injustice, one that is not so dull and boring as New Mobitropolis, and is home to fewer useless protaganists all too ready to get up and go fight with Sonic. I may pay to see that.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Miko

[Flyboy Fox]

You keep saying "he doesn't have a connection with his friends and family", but I just can't see that. They are his friends and family. He doesn't need to have each and every one of them fulfilling a specific need in his life all the time. Friends and family don't work in a scientifically cold way like that. You concede roles they've played in the past and then ask what those characters STILL offer. I say that the bonds and aid they've given each other in the past are enough to secure a relationship in the presence without a stone tablet decreeing exactly what they offer each other on a day-to-day needs exchange basis.

[Miko]

You keep saying "he doesn't have a connection with his friends and family", but I just can't see that. They are his friends and family.

Only in name. But just because you give that person the title, doesn't mean they are.

He doesn't need to have each and every one of them fulfilling a specific need in his life all the time. Friends and family don't work in a scientifically cold way like that.

Actually they really do, much as most people probably don't want to admit it. It's actually quite basic. If a person's personality offers nothing to making your life more functional and/or that's not distinct from other people regualrly deal with there's no value for the personality that makes the person. You don't love a person you don't even value. What's interesting is that you say these concepts can't work in a scientific way when we have sociology and psychology as two scientific feilds that would explore this sort of thing (and actually the professor that kinda tipped me off to this was a sociologist XP)

You concede roles they've played in the past and then ask what those characters STILL offer.

1. Actually, where did I concede to the roles they've played in the past? At most I may have been flexible with how Sonic may've impacted some of them but I don't see how their personalities filled a certain role to Sonic that was persistent and distinct.

2. Relationships aren't a downpayment. They are things that must be constantly maintained. If you think that's not true tell that to all the people who are no longer friends and all the people who got married only to divorce. Even if they did at one point mean something to him, that doesn't mean they mean anything NOW. And if they don't mean anything now, that means he doesn't presently have a connection with them. What do their persons contribute to make his life more functional? What did they EVER regularly contribute?

I say that the bonds and aid they've given each other in the past are enough to secure a relationship in the presence without a stone tablet decreeing exactly what they offer each other on a day-to-day needs exchange basis.

What bonds? Just because a person calls you a friend doesn't mean you are. If there is no substance behind those words, there is no bond.

EDIT: You know what. I'm reading all this and there is probably 1 reason I can think of Sonic would stay, 2 actually:

Embellished. Nostaligia.

Most nostalgics (especially a good few in this fandom) tend to inflate how awesome something really was when looking back and truth be told, Sonic HAS shown signs of this. He may inflate the value of something because of well...nostalgia. There are people who can and do distort the value something previously had, and cling to that nostalgia even if it lacks a present signfficance. But as you said Tagz, when has Sonic ever been one to run away from a problem? Time to finally make him confront it and solve many problems while sticking it to the blind nostalgics in this fandom at the same time. What a wonderful story that'd be.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Miko

[Sega DogTagz]

Idolhood doesn't have to be a matter of admiring from afar. It has to do with how meaningful the person is. A person whom you admire, but has no aspects of their personality that mingle and make more functional your life is nothing more than a person you admire, even though you may see each other everyday. You're thinking of idolhood in purely the celebrity kind of fashion and ignoring day to day idolhood. For example there may be a popular girl or guy on campus or in Sally's case a girl crushes on a guy she sees everyday but the guy's personality doesn't really add to her life being more functional in any way. Many relationships are forged by the girl or guy in question idolizing the other. They admire aspects of that person but for whatever reason, it doesn't actually improve their lives. It's just there or it serves to their detriment. I'm not arguing whether Sonic cares about Sally. I acknowledge he does. But there's no real basis for Sally to actually love Sonic. At best it's a one sided love on Sonic's end with Sally hero worshipping because Sonic's the guy who can save her whenever she's in danger to act out her hero-princess fairytale fantasies.

Okay, but even you must admit that her constant nagging has had an effect on Sonic (be it positive or negative). That is a daily interaction that falls a bit short of the idol status. Then on top of whatever misguided affections she may harbor for Sonic, Issue 187 stated (in her own words no less) that she valued Sonic as a friend (which is not to be confused for her love turmoil which later got interrupted).

So we've got mutual friendships, at least a one sided love and a ton of personal level interaction. At some point, you gotta take idolization off of the table in this regard.

1. Admiring a person's personality traits is not the same as them having a place in mingling with and making more functional your life. You can observe the most popular classmate and see how reckless brash and outspoken they are. You can wish that you could be that way too and maybe you interact with this person a bit on a daily basis. But it doesn't mean that you actually love this person. It doesn't mean that their personality has made it's way in your daily life to make it a lot more functional. So even if you want to say Ant admired Sonic's personality it doesn't mean Sonic's traits mingled with his.

2. You seem to think a relationship is like a down payment. Citing from the past a bunch of stuff that should be the present basis for their relationship. What does Antoine presently need Sonic in his life for. Antoine may be very thankful for what good Sonic has done like the rest of the world but like any idolizer, his life has no basis to actually fall apart without Sonic. Why? Because Sonic's personality doesn't regularly contribute anything to it.

3. Antoine's coming to know his own bravery and bringing it to full circle was in part with the help of Bunnie. Ant needed Sonic's help in making his FATHER see what he understood.

1. Not true. Fictional characters debunk that logic. There are a ton of people whom have had their lives influenced by imaginary characters like Batman (or even Sonic) and would cite that character as a developmental crutch more-so than many of the people around them. I as a person reading a Sonic Comic can admire his personality, take his lifestyle to heart and change myself accordingly to be a better person. That would not be idol worship. That would be Sonic making a significant impact on my life without so much as a word in my direction. (indirect development again lol). If Sonic can have that kind of impact on me, he most certainly can have a similar impact on Ant. Seeing as how Twan used Sonic as a measuring stick, its not a stretch to say the Antoine modeled himself more and more like Sonic over time to get at the things he desired.

2. If 1 character can prove useful to Sonics character on 1 occasion, than that character is capable of providing that service (or other service) again and again. It shows that the character is not hollow or broken, but rather underutilized due to bad writing.

3 True, but Bravery is also a quality Sonic instills in everyone around him.

1. Ok I read 112 and to be honest, I kinda skimmed this issue when I originally read i and was under the impression Antoine may have stopped Sonic in the forest and told him of his plight. But here's the deal. How does that person's personality keep Sonic in check. Let's use Sally for example. If Sonic wants to jump in the fray and it's a stupid move, Sally will grab Sonic by the arm and express to him a sense of logic. Sonic checked his own ego, Antoine didn't have to step in to be his voice of reason. Point being? Sonic didn't need Antoine to be there keep his ego in check and this story therefore doesn't show.

2. Supposing Ant did snag Sonic in the forest and alert Sonic of his problems does this mean it's a regular occurence? No. Does this mean Sally for instance couldn't do it? No. There's nothing really distinct in Ant's being able to check Sonic's ego to make him highly valued. And if you don't have a specific instance in which he could keep Sonic in line, he like Bunnie runs the risk of being Sally mach...II. Or would that make him mach III?.

Not the point I was trying to make. Antoine absorbs Sonics ego. As for checking it, that was a decision Sonic made to help his friend. What I

Edited July 30, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[Miko]

Okay, but even you must admit that her constant nagging has had an effect on Sonic (be it positive or negative).

But I'm not arguing Sonic doesn't care about Sally at all.

That is a daily interaction that falls a bit short of the idol status.

Daily interaction doesn't mean he's not an idol to her. Like I said, there are many people who interact daily in say for instance school with the persons they idolize. It doesn't change the nature of the relationship. If that person's personality isn't having a persistent and positive impact on the person, what we have on our hands is not a "love" of any kind.

Then on top of whatever misguided affections she may harbor for Sonic, Issue 187 stated (in her own words no less) that she valued Sonic as a friend (which is not to be confused for her love turmoil which later got interrupted).

Again, she can say they're friends but that doesn't mean that she feels either love, nor friendship for Sonic.

Fictional characters debunk that logic.

Can fictional characters debunk physical logics of this world? Yes. Human nature? No. Characters, and their relationships to others (especially for protaganists) are written for a human audience. They are written to be relateable to us. Therefore fictional characters will never debunk this logic if it's true for humans.

2. If 1 character can prove useful to Sonics character on 1 occasion, than that character is capable of providing that service (or other service) again and again. It shows that the character is not hollow or broken, but rather underutilized due to bad writing.

In theory yes. I'm simply saying that doing something once or twice in a person's life doesn't mean they automatically have a bond with one another.

Bravery is also a quality Sonic instills in everyone around him.

Let's assume hypothetically that this is true ok? Sonic instills bravery in everyone around him. But as what a friend or an icon? Does Sonic need to physically be there and have his personality traits interact with the teammates in order for this quality to be instilled? No. This team went a whole year without Sonic and still maintained the bravery necessary to fight and can manage solo missions without Sonic regularly. Even in the past this was true. So hypothetically, even if it was "instilled" by Sonic, it's being instilled in the same way personality traits from a celebrity or idol on campus can instill or inspire onlookers to emulate what they see. It doesn't change the fact that the person doesn't need to be there. Their image as an icon is sufficient.

Antoine absorbs Sonics ego.

We've ALWAYS seen Sonic display egotism despite Antoine's being there. Antoine's being there doesn't stop Sonic from teasing people and when "Patch" replaced Antoine nobody was greatly burdened with Sonic's egotism and and costly humor anymore than they usually were. Antoine doesn't "absorb" Sonic's ego.

What I

Edited July 31, 2009 by Miko

[Sega DogTagz]

But I'm not arguing Sonic doesn't care about Sally at all.

Daily interaction doesn't mean he's not an idol to her. Like I said, there are many people who interact daily in say for instance school with the persons they idolize. It doesn't change the nature of the relationship. If that person's personality isn't having a persistent and positive impact on the person, what we have on our hands is not a "love" of any kind.

Again, she can say they're friends but that doesn't mean that she feels either love, nor friendship for Sonic.

Still, stuff adds up.

While saying that you are a friend can mean nothing, it also very well can mean something, which is the much more likely of the two. Sally was not looking to lie or manipulate when she said she valued Sonic as a friend. There really is no reason to cast the remark aside as empty. She clearly separated that notion from her inner turmoil of love. When you add that into the time she takes out of her day to nag, the fact that she often seeks emotional refuge in Sonic (issue 187 again) and holds Sonic accountable for whatever actions he undertakes, this all points to a very strong mutual give and take relationship. Regardless if the love she is feeling is real or not.

It is already clear that Sonic has a bond with Sally, but looking at all this, Sally devotes a lot of herself to interact with Sonic right back.

Can fictional characters debunk physical logics of this world? Yes. Human nature? No. Characters, and their relationships to others (especially for protaganists) are written for a human audience. They are written to be relateable to us. Therefore fictional characters will never debunk this logic if it's true for humans.

Not in that sense, but it debunks the logic that a persons character traits have to be present to impact another party. If Sonic can affect the life of the reader from afar, than he can also change the circumstances of the people around him from afar as well. He does not always have to be directly engaged in a give and take relationship to have a sizable effect; the actions taken as a result of who he is can serve as a valuable life lesson for both the reader and the characters around him.

In theory yes. I'm simply saying that doing something once or twice in a person's life doesn't mean they automatically have a bond with one another.

So, in theory, I have proven that most of the FFs are not hollow or useless, but rather underutilized. That conclusion would be fine by me seeing as how it is easily fixed by good writing.

Let's assume hypothetically that this is true ok? Sonic instills bravery in everyone around him. But as what a friend or an icon? Does Sonic need to physically be there and have his personality traits interact with the teammates in order for this quality to be instilled? No. This team went a whole year without Sonic and still maintained the bravery necessary to fight and can manage solo missions without Sonic regularly. Even in the past this was true. So hypothetically, even if it was "instilled" by Sonic, it's being instilled in the same way personality traits from a celebrity or idol on campus can instill or inspire onlookers to emulate what they see. It doesn't change the fact that the person doesn't need to be there. Their image as an icon is sufficient.

He instills it through both. Many of the FFs have made it very clear that they fight for their friends and family. They are compelled to press on by the images of what they wish to protect. Sonic, being a friend plays a part in this; even after everyone believed he was gone. While his icons status is unquestioned, at the end of the day, the fighters made it clear that they were fighting for their friends and ideals, more than for some hero. (Charmys mini speech to Eggy in the Egg Vineyard gave a good insight to this).

We've ALWAYS seen Sonic display egotism despite Antoine's being there. Antoine's being there doesn't stop Sonic from teasing people and when "Patch" replaced Antoine nobody was greatly burdened with Sonic's egotism and and costly humor anymore than they usually were. Antoine doesn't "absorb" Sonic's ego.

Sonic still directed his ire to Patch (whom he believed was Twan) and wasted no time cracking a remark toward the Coyote as soon as he was back from space. That sequence tells us that Sonic still probably kept his attention on Patch while he was still around. When Patch left on the World Tour, Sonics relationships immediately started to go into decline.

Unless Sonic REALLY hates the person, I'm not of the impression Sonic would allow his egotism to be stroked while watching his worshippers disrespect someone else. It's just not Sonic. There really isn't a mutual conncetion between Sonic and Ant. They're friends by title, and maybe Sonic understands Ant as a friend because of nostalgia but nothing more.

That someone else was (by a technicality Sonic admitted to in Hedgehog Havoc) was himself. By letting Twan take down Anti-Sonic, Sonic was disrespecting himself. There is no way that Sonic would go as to do something that drastic unless he was truly committed to helping his friend.

In the past, that's an attitude he could take because he was practically family to the Acorns. In New Mobitropolis these are elected officials who don't have to be at all close to him and will not tolerate his recklessness getting in the way of safety and mission objective. This goes ESPECIALLY true for Rosemary and Hamlin.

Here's the deal. If they say don't do something and he does it, they can force him to stop Freedom Fighting for let's say 5 years and prohibit him from going out and and being of use as a free agent. Sonic could...disobey them but that could mean jail time for let's say about 3 years. Sonic could bust out of prison, but that would mean he can't return to New Mobitropolis. They can put a dent in his life if they honestly want to. He can disobey their orders but it'd make his relationship to New Mobitropolis less and less manageable until he got cut off.

All of that does not apply to Sonics situation, because he holds the same trump card that Sally used so effectively against the Acorn Council. At the end of the day, the council will not have the votes to penalize Sonic for any wrong doing, because they do not want to risk the protections the FFs provide. They will not send Sonic to jail (or punish him at all really) for the same reasons that they earlier acquitted Sally of all charges. It basically comes down to the fact that the new government holds no jurisdiction over the FFs. Sonic is as free as he has ever been. He has what amounts to diplomatic immunity on steroids.

His underlings haven't really done a whole lot in conquering other reigions of the world. And One of the reasons I said it's OOC which you did not address:

Eggman even under your reasoning doesn't maintain the kind of POV necessary to hold onto an army long enough. Attack weaker nations and uninhabited places and THEN go for stronger nations. Don't simply thin out your resources and the strength of your army having one group attack and then another needlessly breaking treaties when they don't have to yet. He's a mad doctor, not an evil emperor.

Eggmans Mad Genius position does not make him 100% effective at conquering the world. The fact that his minions are struggling to realize this dream does not mean he is not committed to the end goal. It just shows that he is indeed trying to take over the world, but he is just not there yet.

As for keeping the empire in check, he obviously does not. I don

Edited July 31, 2009 by Sega DogTagz

[redmenace]

Quite frankly, when you say that Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy in teh same room cannot bode well, just tells exacly how far and how out of character Archie made them. It's not really Sonic we see there, it's something that looks vaguely alike and runs at the speed of sound but that ultimatly it's different from Sonic. Archie doesn't care about Sonic. Nor did DIC, who started all this crap about Freedom Fighters instead of focusing in the Sonic / Tails pair. No wonder that AOSTH is more popular than SatAM.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I personally like SatAM and Adventures equally for different reasons, but that's just my opinion.

[Flyboy Fox]

That's absolutely my opinion too. Well, I do like AoStH best, personally, because I grew up on it and I love the Sonic and Tails tag-team focus. But I also love SatAM dearly. You can't compare the two. They are so different that it's not possible to compare them in any meaningful way.

[Blazey Firekitty]

But I also love SatAM dearly. You can't compare the two. They are so different that it's not possible to compare them in any meaningful way.

Yeah, if I want a somewhat dark and serious, yet hopeful and optimistic drama, I watch SatAM. And I also enjoy that show because I get to see Sonic and Sally basically be the "mom and dad" of the rest of the cast, even though I would have wanted the other Freedom Fighters to have gotten more important roles.

Adventures I enjoy because it's mindless happy go lucky antics in a Mobius that's a near paradise. It's just Sonic and Tails having fun and fighting villains who are bad, but have their sympathetic/comedic qualities, much like Team Rocket in Pokemon.

[Sega DogTagz]

Quite frankly, when you say that Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy in teh same room cannot bode well, just tells exacly how far and how out of character Archie made them. It's not really Sonic we see there, it's something that looks vaguely alike and runs at the speed of sound but that ultimatly it's different from Sonic. Archie doesn't care about Sonic. Nor did DIC, who started all this crap about Freedom Fighters instead of focusing in the Sonic / Tails pair. No wonder that AOSTH is more popular than SatAM.

They are not out of character with the Sega variants, they are completely different characters in their own regard. The Archie characters had to be created in a different light because the Sega characters are far to shallow to exist in the comic universe. Rather than assuming essential traits that are not on display in the Sega-verse, it only makes sense that Archie would develop their own characters.

Archie might not care about Sega Sonic, but they certainly understand how to maintain the integrity of their own version of the Hedgehog. This is why the belief that throwing together all the Sega Characters into the comics limelight is such a bad idea. They were not designed to be there.

[nuckles87]

They are not out of character with the Sega variants, they are completely different characters in their own regard.

Indeed. These characters where created when there was nothing more then some sprite animations to base their personalities off of. Frankly, I find the Archie personalities to be a lot better then their much more bland SEGA Sonic variants.

[redmenace]

They are not out of character with the Sega variants, they are completely different characters in their own regard. The Archie characters had to be created in a different light because the Sega characters are far to shallow to exist in the comic universe. Rather than assuming essential traits that are not on display in the Sega-verse, it only makes sense that Archie would develop their own characters.

Archie might not care about Sega Sonic, but they certainly understand how to maintain the integrity of their own version of the Hedgehog. This is why the belief that throwing together all the Sega Characters into the comics limelight is such a bad idea. They were not designed to be there.

There's a difference between adapt and deepen a character AND change his personality and setting altogether. Let's not get into manuals, character expositions in interviews or even commercials. Let's base ourselves with the core idea. In S1 and S2, it was seen Sonic going around Zones protecting animals and destroying Eggman's robots, with Tails close behind, nothing more. Sure it's simple. So how can SatAM/Archie pick something so simple and destroy it altogether?

Where does that simple concept encompass a Kingdom, a bitchy princess that lords over Sonic and a team consisted of a wlarus, a coyote and a bunny being as important as Sonic and completely shunning Tails away? I'm sorry but the deviation and the extraploation, if we can even call them that, has no sense whatsoever.

There was no adapting in SatAM/Archie, there was a complete new universe and complete new characters. An adaption was what AOSTH was. It fitted the games' theme (Sonic, and Tails, against Robotnik) and added their own universe expansion WITHOUT stamping all over what made Sonic, Sonic.

The majority like SatAM because of nostalgia factor. Because we all know that getting some new characters with the same importance as Sonic, kingdoms, lost monarchs and putting them in the same show didn't work with Underground. The majority hates that one. And they hate Sonic X too, because it exchanges Tails with a whiny character as well. Dark and edgier? The majority loaths Shadow the Hedgehog (game) and Sonic 06 and point this as one of the reasons. It's incredible how fans attack things, for the reasons they like SatAM/Archie.

And Archie should care about SEGA Sonic. It's where they're basing for Pete's sakes. At least for respect of the franchise that gets their bread on the table every month. They seem all so eager to catter tp SEGA Sonic fans with the incorporation of game elements but crap all over them with the way the refuse to round the character traits a bit.

Edited August 1, 2009 by redmenace

[Sega DogTagz]

Archie decided to play up their own image of Sonic, big deal. Why is everyone so offended that they went on a tangent away from the games? It makes no sense.

Archie could not adapt and deepen Sonic because he was at a point in the series where Sega was just beginning to do the same. They had to create their own Sonic (one that could work in a comic universe) rather then trying to anticipate the ambitions of a video game company. Stop drawing comparisons back to the games. At the end of the day, the only thing the two verses share is an IP.

Your basing your judgment like the comic series should be a clone of the games (which is obviously not the case). They had every right to develop their own Sonic that could work for them. Archie had no restriction that limited them to the methos of the original games, nor were they expected to follow the game script. They chose the best possible route by making a character that they could develop on their own while still showing off his world famous face.

[redmenace]

Where did I say it needs to be a clone? I said that it needs to have the same theme overall, otherwise is not an adaptation. They could have put another character in Sonic's place and no one would say that was Sonic the Hedgehog. Is AOSTH a clone? No. But does it follow the original theme? Yes.

You cannot say that Archie/SatAM/SU did was Sonic the Hedgehog. It was something with characters that looked similar (Eggman doesn't even deliver in this aspect), nothing else. They did not deepen him, they changed him. There's a difference. I don't really care if they were allowed do it or not, it's not Sonic. It does not relate with what he is.

Edited August 1, 2009 by redmenace

[Flyboy Fox]

Of course it's Sonic. It's just Archie Sonic. He is as canonically 'Sonic' to his 'verse as Game Sonic is to the gaming 'verse.

[Toby]

I used to be pissed that the comic's version of Sonic and his world were nothing like the games too.

Then I grew up and got over it.

[batson]

Where did I say it needs to be a clone? I said that it needs to have the same theme overall, otherwise is not an adaptation. They could have put another character in Sonic's place and no one would say that was Sonic the Hedgehog. Is AOSTH a clone? No. But does it follow the original theme? Yes.

You cannot say that Archie/SatAM/SU did was Sonic the Hedgehog. It was something with characters that looked similar (Eggman doesn't even deliver in this aspect), nothing else. They did not deepen him, they changed him. There's a difference. I don't really care if they were allowed do it or not, it's not Sonic. It does not relate with what he is.

If SatAM/Archie "isn't Sonic" because it's storyline and themes differs so much from the original 2D Sonic games, then the 3D games aren't Sonic either. I dont remember a genetically enhanced emo with "dead little sister syndrome" having any part of the Mega Drive games stories.

On another note, what i love the most about Archie (at least in its later years), is the awareness of the franchise as a whole it shows. I dont think that for instance the people who made Sonic X had ever even seen an episode of AoStH, or that the people behind the modern 3D games have ever read a Fleetway comic, ect. But the people who currently run the Archie comics are obviously true Sonic freaks, who sprinkles the comics with endless references to all of Sonic's past incarnations, and in-jokes that only the hardcore fans could ever get. Other franchises, like for instance Transformers, have had input from genuine fans like this in most of it's incarnations over the last 15 years or so, but Archie remains the only branch of the Sonic franchise with this treatment (well, except maybe Chronicles, but the again they did get a few crucial things wrong).

[redmenace]

I used to be pissed that the comic's version of Sonic and his world were nothing like the games too.

Then I grew up and got over it.

It's not as if I need to grow up or not. I don't like the version Archie has and it's not the Sonic I know and like however. People can't expect me not to have an opinion about it and not express it either when it's asked. If it's childish to have one then so be it.

If SatAM/Archie "isn't Sonic" because it's storyline and themes differs so much from the original 2D Sonic games, then the 3D games aren't Sonic either. I dont remember a genetically enhanced emo with "dead little sister syndrome" having any part of the Mega Drive games stories.

I didn't put Sonic 3D into the equation. And Sonic Team has all the right to change it since it's their franchise to begin with. Though I don't see where there is a change besides tone, characters, setting, story is all the same.

Edited August 2, 2009 by redmenace

[Blazey Firekitty]

I suppose a lot of Archie Sonic's popularity can be explained by the fact that it's the last remnant of the Western "Mobius" mythology that flourished Sega of America and Sega of Europe before Sonic Adventure made the Japanese story the international one. Fleetway has been long dead(Unless one counts the fan continuation) and DIC stopped making Sonic cartoons around the same time.

It's really amazing that Archie Sonic is still around. I would have thought it would have died with the 90's, but, well, here we are.

[Flyboy Fox]

I'm very glad it remained. It may not be to everyone's tastes, but it sure is to mine ::Clings to the 90's! ♥::