Should Sonic join Mina's band in Archie?

[Blazey Firekitty]

I'm very glad it remained. It may not be to everyone's tastes, but it sure is to mine ::Clings to the 90's! ♥::

Yeah, I may have my problems with it, but I'm definitely glad it's still around, due to the heavy nostalgia value. Besides, it seems be handling the whole merge between the SatAM based story and the "modern games" story a bit better these days.

[batson]

It's not as if I need to grow up or not. I don't like the version Archie has and it's not the Sonic I know and like however. People can't expect me not to have an opinion about it and not express it either when it's asked. If it's childish to have one then so be it.

I didn't put Sonic 3D into the equation. And Sonic Team has all the right to change it since it's their franchise to begin with. Though I don't see where there is a change besides tone, characters, setting, story is all the same.

The world of Sonic (the settings, the characters, the stories, the atmosphere) the way it comes of in the games today is at least as much of a departure from the Mega Drive games as SatAM was. If someone had only played the main Mega Drive Sonic games and had no exposure to Sonic at all besides them, and were later shown an episode of SatAM and also given Shadow the Hedgehog to play, i can assure you that he would think that the version of Sonic and his world as seen in SatAM were a lot closer to the Mega Drive games than the version seen in Shadow the Hedgehog was. At least the storyline in SatAM still revolves around Sonic and his pals trying to stop Eggman from turning animals into robots, which was the basic premise of the Mega Drive games, and is something that the 3D games have almost completely done away with and replaced with generic "ancient prophecies of doom" stories.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Where does that simple concept encompass a Kingdom, a bitchy princess that lords over Sonic and a team consisted of a wlarus, a coyote and a bunny being as important as Sonic and completely shunning Tails away? I'm sorry but the deviation and the extraploation, if we can even call them that, has no sense whatsoever.

To be fair, while Bunnie got to be important due to her martial arts and cyborg powers, Antoine and Rotor got the shaft about as much as Tails...Ant was terrified of nearly everything, and Rotor tended to get stuck in his workshop while other characters went on missions.

[Toby]

Not true. Rotor had a hammer. =p

[Blazey Firekitty]

...Now I'm envisioning Robotnik and Rotor having a Scissors vs. Hammer fight for the ages.

[Sean]

Don't you ever mention issues 1-20 ever again

When it comes to nostalgia, Archie Sonic gets that claim from me. I grew up with the issues 21-50 era, and I was a rabid fan of Spaz (back when he was good). Mecha Madness remains as one of the series' finest points, Endgame be damned.

[Toby]

I'll mention them as much as I want, you're not my mother! =p

Really though, I don't see the reason why Sonic would need to go all Scooby Doo on us and join a band just to travel the world. The boy has two feet after all, and waiting around for the extras would slow him down.

Seems to me to be more of a poor excuse to get Mina and Sonic together so there'll be plenty of opportunities for them to make kissy faces~

[Sean]

Oh my god it burns so good.

Did they already ditch all of the romantic subplots, anyway? Because I can't bear to read the 90-130whatever range comics again because of that, among other reasons!

Edited August 4, 2009 by Jake

[nuckles87]

More or less. There's been an incredibly minor romantic triangle between Julie-Su, Knuckles, and Rouge (Knuckles is, of course, oblivious to it all), that's only come up in one other story since it was introduced in 165.

It also looks like their might be a romantic sub plot between Sally and Monkey Kahn in recent issues, but that looks like it'll be resolving itself in a couple issues as well.

There hasn't been anything in the same vein as the era your referring to though. Especially not since Ian took over in 160.

[Picchi]

Seems to me to be more of a poor excuse to get Mina and Sonic together so there'll be plenty of opportunities for them to make kissy faces~

While it'd be nice for Mina to develop with Sonic and enter potential running again, I've at the same time acknowledged in the past that its probably for the best if Sonic didn't get paired off with anyone. Too many hardcore shipper fans with too many seperate tastes that may threaten to lower sales even further with the wrong move, and Ian himself's already acknowledged that SEGA's implied no official pair-ups for Sonic anyway. With her friend Amy being more competitive for Sonic's affection as well acknowledging the fact that he and Sally are mending things, as much as she could develop with him I think it'd be OOC for Mina to just jump into and pursue a relationship with Sonic which is good because I fear how writers would potray Sonic with a girlfriend. Read #124 onward and you'll see why.

Non-canon relationships allow it so that the dynamics and development of the characters are more center focus instead the romantic filling that writers tend to focus on too much when a pairing becomes official.

However. Even if you want to accuse it as just "an excuse" though, it still doesn't change the fact that a good half or so of Sonic's main cast hardly have anything to do with him. In any case, be it part time or full time I'd much rather at the very least Sonic tour on occasion with people that can be more relevant and develop with him, than having him always hang around a bunch of characters and a particular Mary-Sue that either don't do much outside of canon fodder or hinder the contributions anyone who could potentially be more than that.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Picchi

[Blazey Firekitty]

than having him always hang around a bunch of characters and a particular Mary-Sue that either don't do much outside of canon fodder

I'm not sure what you mean when you use the term "cannon fodder."

When I think "cannon fodder" I think generic characters like the SWAT Bots and Egg Pawns who show up so that they can die over and over again. Kind of like the Putty Patrol from Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

So, I'm getting this image in my head of multiple Amys, Rotors, Bunnies, Antoines, and Tailsi, showing up over and over again just so Sonic and Sally can order them into the battle field, watch them blow up, and then replace them with new models.

Obviously this is not what you are implying, but I'm still not privy to what you actually mean.

[Flyboy Fox]

The term is confusing me, too. When I think of 'cannon fodder', I think of such nameless characters as the red-shirts in classic Star Trek, who exist only to die and never be seen again. I'm not sure what Miko and Picchi mean by it, but I think they may be using a term that doesn't accurately convey what they mean ^^;

[Blazey Firekitty]

The term is confusing me, too. When I think of 'cannon fodder', I think of such nameless characters as the red-shirts in classic Star Trek, who exist only to die and never be seen again. I'm not sure what Miko and Picchi mean by it, but I think they may be using a term that doesn't accurately convey what they mean ^^;

Yeah, you've got it, looks we're on the same wavelength.

Thinking about it a bit more, I think Miko and Picchi were trying to say something along the lines of "Sonic only values the people around him as soldiers rather than people," but "cannon fodder" still doesn't seem to apply, because "cannon fodder" implies characters who are non-entities with little to no characterization or individuality.

[Flyboy Fox]

It also implies that they're deliberately thrown out there to take hits and be sacrificed, which is not happening at all. How much Sonic values his team-mates PERSONALLY may be up for debate, but the indisputable fact is that he values their lives as he values everyone else's. Therefore he can't treat them as cannon fodder; his personality dooesn't allow for it.

[Blazey Firekitty]

It also implies that they're deliberately thrown out there to take hits and be sacrificed, which is not happening at all. How much Sonic values his team-mates PERSONALLY may be up for debate, but the indisputable fact is that he values their lives as he values everyone else's. Therefore he can't treat them as cannon fodder; his personality dooesn't allow for it.

Yeah, I can't seem as the kind of person who'd say to himself "Boy, I'm sure glad to have all these living shields around me so I can't get hurt!"

[Sega DogTagz]

^ I agree that cannon fodder is probably a poor choice of words, but I think that he meant something along the lines of -- Sonics friends are there just because Archie says they are and not for any particular personal building reason.

Not that I agree with such thinking

[Blazey Firekitty]

^ I agree that cannon fodder is probably a poor choice of words, but I think that he meant something along the lines of -- Sonics friends are there just because Archie says they are and not for any particular personal building reason.

Not that I agree with such thinking

Yeah, while I feel that Archie has had a lot of characterization problems over the years, I wouldn't say that "The relationship between Sonic and his friends" doesn't exist. I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing more obvious attempts at emotional tenderness, but I don't feel that just because something isn't portrayed in an obvious manner, that it isn't there at all.

And besides, I don't think Sonic would have said "I don't deserve to live" back in Mecha Madness if he didn't care about the other Freedom Fighters.

[Flyboy Fox]

Guh, that's horrible... ;_; Reminds me how even back then the comics could be so heart-wrenching.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Guh, that's horrible... ;_; Reminds me how even back then the comics could be so heart-wrenching.

Yeah, that scene really stands out, especially considering it was written by Mike Gallagher, who usually did the goofy pun laden scripts...I was really surprised to find that he was capable of writing genuine emotion like that.

[Picchi]

I'm not saying he has no relationship with the Freedom Fighters whatsoever; they're all on relatively good terms with each other, but as a friend, Sonic doesn't have much of a bond with them. the FFs don't really contribute their personalities to his character, so its really difficult to write stories about them while making them somehow relevant to the main character; they're moreso around just to assist in combat purposes most of the time.

[Sean]

Guh, that's horrible... ;_; Reminds me how even back then the comics could be so heart-wrenching.

This was exactly why Mecha Madness was so wonderful for me to read; I knew Sonic wasn't going to die but seeing him actually regain a glimmer of humanity even in his Mecha Sonic form was really an awesome touch - too bad it ended with the rather silly court martial story that I felt didn't do the saga justice. But Mecha Madness will always remain my favorite Sonic moment ever. Incredible artwork and the most intense storyline ever.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I'm not saying he has no relationship with the Freedom Fighters whatsoever; they're all on relatively good terms with each other, but as a friend, Sonic doesn't have much of a bond with them. the FFs don't really contribute their personalities to his character, so its really difficult to write stories about them while making them somehow relevant to the main character; they're moreso around just to assist in combat purposes most of the time.

That actually makes a lot more sense. I don't quite agree with it, but I can at least see where you're coming from given the tendency towards awkward and somewhat vague characterization in the comic.

[Picchi]

Sonic's bonds with the FFs seem like the kind of relationships he'd have with the Chaotix or any of his other protagonist pals. There's nothing that really sets them apart from other friends, or convinces me that they're close/personalities can contribute to who Sonic is as a character; and thats especially when these characters would drop him harder than a sack of potatoes if something if he "supposedly" did something wrong. Mecha Madness, Endgame, and the #90s are good examples of this. When Sonic needed them, despite all the history they had together they never even bothered to think back on that, to hear him out or help him when everyone else had suspected/turned against him. Hell, for all their "childhood friendship" was worth, Antione suspected Sonic was a traitor at the beginning of the Mecha Madness Arc.

Also, they've made their own subties within the group that'd make it very uncharacteristic for them in turn to go to Sonic for anything.

[Miko]

I consider that any time he does treat the FFs like they're a big thing, it's as the plot demands. If that's too cryptic then when the writer wants to write it so that Sonic is. But that doesn't change the fact it creates plotholes because of the fact they're not willing to do what needs to be done to actually establish a bond between Sonic and anyone other than Sally.

Seems to me to be more of a poor excuse to get Mina and Sonic together so there'll be plenty of opportunities for them to make kissy faces~

I find it slightly ironic that anyone would say it's just a poor excuse to get Mina back with Sonic despite the fact there would be many hypothetical benefits even if we looked at this from Ian's perspective of "reel in the game fans." First off Mina is more inhbited than Sally with a greater fear of rejection that puts more barriers up than it would be for Sally. Mina and Sally get to know each other and despite that fact Sally still goes after Sonic. I'm not arguing whether she she should or shouldn't, but Mina would probably be quicker to consider the feelings of those around her and if Amy's throwing herself on Sonic at every which direction, I don't see Mina trying to provoke a relationship with Sonic that interferes with the SonAmy dynamic to the point it doesn't function as it normally does. That's something I can't say for Sally.

And really are your worries about Mina about the overall improvement of the comic by not tying it to relationship issues or is this just a fear over Sally. Because presently Sonic's position with the freedom fighters is leaving a very big opening for Sonic and Sally to reconcile. Sally leaving behind her sense of level headeness and thinking things through to do what feels good. Of course this only affects the plot and her position as an FF when the Ian demands it. You can't just complain about Mina who would have a lot more in her way before throwing herself at Sonic than Sally and then ignore the present complications him being a freedom fighter makes with her.

It also looks like their might be a romantic sub plot between Sally and Monkey Kahn in recent issues, but that looks like it'll be resolving itself in a couple issues as well.

There already IS a romantic love triangle between Khan Sonic and Sally. Khan is interested in Sally, Sonic's interested in Sally and Sally's in the middle.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Miko

[Blazey Firekitty]

Looking back, I'm not quite sure I completely get the preoccupation with romance in the Sonic comic. Amongst any shippers, that is, be they SonSal, SonAmy, SonMina, or whatever. Despite the overabundance of SonSal in SatAM, in my mind SatAM was more about the platonic bonds that formed amidst a tragic setting than anything else. So, I have a hard time seeing why Archie, which is based largely off of SatAM, should have a strong focus on who will bear Sonic's children.

Edited August 5, 2009 by BlazeyBakeneko