Would Sonic benefit from more of a backstory?

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Isn't "encased my animal friends in robots that drain their life force" enough of a reason? Granted, apparently Sonic was already tussling with Eggman even before that, but back then it was probably just "fat dude wants to take over the world, I'm cool and fast so I think I'll stop him". Anyway, does Sonic really hate Eggman that intensely? Sonic just stops him from taking over the world and doing other bad stuff; he doesn't seem have some massive personal vendetta against him. And personally, I think it's perfectly fine that way.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

7 minutes ago, Myst said:

As much as I hate SatAM, one thing that I liked about it was it established Sonic's hatred towards Eggman. He enslaved his Uncle and pet, and forced him into hiding. We don't really have a reason for Sonic to hate Eggman in the games, so there's no emotional core to their dynamic. If we saw a story where Eggman destroyed Christmas Island (Sonic's canon birthplace) and maybe Eggman enslaved Sonic himself for a short period (I had a similar idea I had posted in the Live-Action movie thread) that would be interesting..

To be fair it isn't that difficult to infer that Sonic initially saw Eggman as a nuisance who was causing destruction to the islands and locals in Sonic 1 - 2, but as he battled against him more and more he grew to dislike/hate Eggman because of the latter's callous lack of empathy to everyone except himself and what he was willing to do just to get attention. This of course doesn't factor in Eggman's probably desire to control everyone, which goes against Sonic's ideals of freedom and free will.

Also why is everything posting twice?

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Myst said:

As much as I hate SatAM, one thing that I liked about it was it established Sonic's hatred towards Eggman. He enslaved his Uncle and pet, and forced him into hiding. We don't really have a reason for Sonic to hate Eggman in the games, so there's no emotional core to their dynamic. If we saw a story where Eggman destroyed Christmas Island (Sonic's canon birthplace) and maybe Eggman enslaved Sonic himself for a short period (I had a similar idea I had posted in the Live-Action movie thread) that would be interesting..

That's exactly the kind of thing I don't want. Sonic doesn't need some tragic backstory where he comes to hate Eggman. And the games have never even played their relationship as being based in anything like that; game Sonic has always been pretty flippant about Eggman, there's not meant to be any kind of deep hatred from him.

1 hour ago, Myst said:

As much as I hate SatAM, one thing that I liked about it was it established Sonic's hatred towards Eggman. He enslaved his Uncle and pet, and forced him into hiding. We don't really have a reason for Sonic to hate Eggman in the games, so there's no emotional core to their dynamic. If we saw a story where Eggman destroyed Christmas Island (Sonic's canon birthplace) and maybe Eggman enslaved Sonic himself for a short period (I had a similar idea I had posted in the Live-Action movie thread) that would be interesting..

That's exactly the kind of thing I don't want. Sonic doesn't need some tragic backstory where he comes to hate Eggman. And the games have never even played their relationship as being based in anything like that; game Sonic has always been pretty flippant about Eggman, there's not meant to be any kind of deep hatred from him.

[shdowhunt60]

2 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Isn't "encased my animal friends in robots that drain their life force" enough of a reason? Granted, apparently Sonic was already tussling with Eggman even before that, but back then it was probably just "fat dude wants to take over the world, I'm cool and fast so I think I'll stop him". Anyway, does Sonic really hate Eggman that intensely? Sonic just stops him from taking over the world and doing other bad stuff; he doesn't seem have some massive personal vendetta against him. And personally, I think it's perfectly fine that way.

That doesn't really feel particularly personal to Sonic though.

I have to admit, I still don't really understand the opposition here.

[Nepenthe]

Fighting against Eggman is self-explanatory due to what's at stake if Eggman wins. Really, Sonic doesn't need a personal connection to Eggman to fight against him anymore than I need personal connection to any homeless or otherwise struggling people to give food to them. We help people because it makes the world better. There doesn't need to be a deeper reason than that.

[shdowhunt60]

6 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Fighting against Eggman is self-explanatory due to what's at stake if Eggman wins. Really, Sonic doesn't need a personal connection to Eggman to fight against him anymore than I need personal connection to any homeless or otherwise struggling people to give food to them. We help people because it makes the world better. There doesn't need to be a deeper reason than that.

People aren't really that simple Penthe. Some people do it for religious reasons. Some people do it because that's what they were always told that was the right thing to do.

I didn't say that he needed a personal connection to Eggman. I said he needed something that was personal to him.

Everyone seems to be operating the assumption that I'm saying that Sonic should have some super dramatic backstory, when I said numerous times, time and time again, that wasn't the case. I said he needs SOMETHING, and that SOMETHING could be anything.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Sonic needs even less of a reason to fight Eggman than an average person needs to help a homeless person. Sonic loves freedom, so of course he would want to stop someone who wants to conquer the world. If Eggman were to succeed, it would affect him directly. There's something clearly in it for him. There's no need for a personal reason or vendetta or whatever against Eggman.

[shdowhunt60]

1 minute ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Sonic needs even less of a reason to fight Eggman than an average person needs to help a homeless person. Sonic loves freedom, so of course he would want to stop someone who wants to conquer the world. If Eggman were to succeed, it would affect him directly. There's something clearly in it for him. There's no need for a personal reason or vendetta or whatever against Eggman.

I didn't even say that he needed a personal vendetta against Eggman, please try again.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Well, okay. I did say "personal reason or vendetta", and that wasn't exactly the crux of my argument, but I guess I could have just phrased it better. I guess I did focus on the more exaggeratedly bad thing.

Would you care to explain why what Sonic already has - a personal desire for freedom from domination by an evil mustached man - is inadequate motivation?

[Nepenthe]

He does have personal reasons that are implicit in his character: Sonic loves freedom, he loves his friends and wants to keep them safe, and he's an adrenaline junkie that gets a rush from engaging in competitive or dangerous activities. Praytell, why would he let Eggman get away with anything under these circumstances?

[shdowhunt60]

18 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

He does have personal reasons that are implicit in his character: Sonic loves freedom, he loves his friends and wants to keep them safe, and he's an adrenaline junkie that gets a rush from engaging in competitive or dangerous activities. Praytell, why would he let Eggman get away with anything under these circumstances?

But why does Sonic love freedom so much that he would risk his life on a constant basis? And getting a rush from competitive and dangerous activities is all well and fun, but when people's lives are on the line, then it stops being a game. 

This stuff isn't hard. It just requires thinking of Sonic as a person. Like ChaosSupremeSonic suggest earlier, this doesn't even particularly even NEED a backstory. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like my pulpy Marvel dramatic backstories with Stan Lee's faux science and everything, but I recognize that isn't always everyone's sort of thing.

I was hoping that when I linked that fanfiction author that someone would pick up something, but I might as well throw this out there.

 

Quote

 

Sonic chewed over the question for a few seconds before answering. "When Dr. Robotnik first attacked Green Hill, I was devastated," he replied, gauging Tails' reactions. "My whole life fell apart, and I was the only one who could pick it back up. I was angry, so I went after the doc. I didn't mean to become a hero, but, when I saw how much I meant to people, I realized something…"

Tails cocked his head to the side, his expression openly captivated. "What?" he breathed.

"Even though Eggman destroyed my old life, I built a new one – one where I could keep anyone else from getting hurt."

 

 

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/8405706/1/Five-Simple-Words

I mean, if this is really and truly too dramatic and angsty that Sonic is sitting down and sharing some life experiences with Tails, then fine, but I just want to open people's minds on the possibility that maybe expanding the main character of the entire franchise might not be such a bad idea. I mean, the fact that she can consistently take Sonic and can consistently make him into a developing character that grows and learns should say something. I gave her as an example, because she frankly doesn't really go too overboard in terms of angst, and has a large number of fics that basically consist of psycoanalyzing Sonic as a person.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

11 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

But why does Sonic love freedom so much that he would risk his life on a constant basis? And getting a rush from competitive and dangerous activities is all well and fun, but when people's lives are on the line, then it stops being a game. 

This stuff isn't hard. It just requires thinking of Sonic as a person. Like ChaosSupremeSonic suggest earlier, this doesn't even particularly even NEED a backstory. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like my pulpy Marvel dramatic backstories with Stan Lee's faux science and everything, but I recognize that isn't always everyone's sort of thing.

I was hoping that when I linked that fanfiction author that someone would pick up something, but I might as well throw this out there.

Well like I said earlier, the freedom aspect doesn't have to be his only motivation. Maybe he just grew to hate/dislike Eggman due to the way latter's self-centered narcissism and lack of empathy made him willing to destroy the beauty of nature and enslave others/use others as energy sources regardless of the danger to the animals/people/locals just for the sake of his own ego. After all, out of every one of the Sonic characters, Sonic has battled Eggman longer than anyone else so he of all people would not only understand Eggman's sociopathic tendencies better than anyone. Heck maybe at first he probably didn't even consider Eggman as anything more than a nuisance, but the long time he spent battling him may have made his encounters with Eggman extremely personal, which he covers up with his wisecracks and competitive nature to throw off Eggman and keep himself from losing his cool.

Also this quoting posting twice thing is getting really annoying. Is there something being done about it?

[Nepenthe]

Sonic risks his life for freedom because it is constantly at stake by Eggman. Literally, if Eggman wins he either dies or will be restrained in some way that will prevent him from enjoying his superpowers and world travel. Sonic has also treated moments with the seriousness they inherently deserve so it's not as if he's incapable of empathy or insensitive. However, that still doesn't mean he doesn't get a thrill with taking on a challenge like that.

And Sonic sharing a life experience isn't angsty. Sonic having his life fall apart over something that he doesn't express that much grievance with in the future is angsty.

[shdowhunt60]

13 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

And Sonic sharing a life experience isn't angsty. Sonic having his life fall apart over something that he doesn't express that much grievance with in the future is angsty.

... Which he shouldn't even though he's found his resolution over that. And frankly, I'm questioning over why angst was ever a bad thing to begin with.

Right, whatever, I don't think I'm going to convince anyone. I think it's clear that I don't really see eye-to-eye with everyone. I just want to, you know, at least entertain a possibility at this point. And clearly, that's not a possibility that anyone here is willing to explore.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

12 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Right, whatever, I don't think I'm going to convince anyone. I think it's clear that I don't really see eye-to-eye with everyone. I just want to, you know, at least entertain a possibility at this point. And clearly, that's not a possibility that anyone here is willing to explore.

If I don't seem "open to the possibility", it's simply because I honestly don't see a reason why Sonic's character isn't fine the way it is. I don't see why anything more is needed. It's not that it's impossible for a backstory for Sonic to be good or anything, it's just that you seem to be concerned about addressing a problem that, in my view and the view of others, isn't there. If you want us to be more open to your "solution", you first have to show that there's a problem, if that makes sense.

[shdowhunt60]

7 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

If I don't seem "open to the possibility", it's simply because I honestly don't see a reason why Sonic's character isn't fine the way it is. I don't see why anything more is needed. It's not that it's impossible for a backstory for Sonic to be good or anything, it's just that you seem to be concerned about addressing a problem that, in my view and the view of others, isn't there. If you want us to be more open to your "solution", you first have to show that there's a problem, if that makes sense.

And I tried explaining that before, but it felt like I was just talking into the wind. I felt that Sonic was a static character, who has no development, but apparently that wasn't a problem. I said he doesn't really feel like a person, that he doesn't really have any sort of personal attachment to what he does, and the response was "of course he has, he's just super awesome Sonic the hedgehog who goes out and saves his friends, because that's who he is". It felt like it was the same damned thing as the multiple playable characters debate, only this time I happen to stand on the wrong side of the Nepenthe tracks.

[Nepenthe]

Why in the world am I being called out like this when I neither kicked off this debate nor was the only one arguing in favor of keeping Sonic without a backstory?

[shdowhunt60]

2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Why in the world am I being called out like this when I neither kicked off this debate nor was the only one arguing in favor of keeping Sonic without a backstory?

Sorry. I didn't mean anything by it. I'm just being bitter.

2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Why in the world am I being called out like this when I neither kicked off this debate nor was the only one arguing in favor of keeping Sonic without a backstory?

Sorry. I didn't mean anything by it. I'm just being bitter.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly, I find it odd that there's this kind of impression that having a backstory would rob Sonic of any kind of mystery to his character, or that having one explaining his rivalry with Eggman would require something complex.

Really, it's not like that back couldn't simply be "Sonic first saw Eggman causing trouble; he didn't like it and went out to stop him, thus kickstarting their long-standing animousity?" You'd be doing nothing more than just establishing Sonic 1 as his background and giving its near lack of a plot more detail between the two characters.

I swear to god these damn duplicate paragraphs.

 

[StaticMania]

It couldn't just be as simple as Sonic was just a guy, a guy who doesn't like seeing bad people doing bad things. Sooo, because he has the ability, he decided to act on impulse to stop an Egg Man from kidnapping animals.

 

There's nothing we don't already know that explains Sonic's personality. Sonic's a free roaming spirit who's use to moving at his own pace because he has no restrictions, no one to hold him down, no rules to follow. This pretty much explains everything except for the snark.

 

Now if you want to explain his live life to the fullest mentality, that's something worth exploring. That's actually a mentality that always develops from something you lived through no matter how simple.

[Shade Vortex]

6 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Really, it's not like that back couldn't simply be "Sonic first saw Eggman causing trouble; he didn't like it and went out to stop him, thus kickstarting their long-standing animousity?" You'd be doing nothing more than just establishing Sonic 1 as his background and giving its near lack of a plot more detail between the two characters.

As a noteworthy thing to add on to this... the Sonic The Hedgehog technical documents (read the Game Story) seem to imply Sonic had fought Eggman several times before Sonic 1, Sonic 1 was just the first time the Chaos Emeralds were involved. So there clearly is/was a "backstory" to their rivalry, we probably just won't ever know what SEGA planned for it to be. But it's effectively exactly what you said- Sonic seems to have just jumped into action because it was the right thing to do, and he was courageous and adventurous enough to do it.

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I honestly don't even see why they would need a backstory. I'm not against the idea of a backstory mind you, but these characters really don't need a massive complicated one. Even a little backstory can help us understand the characters and their motivations better, for example, Knuckles' status as Guardian. Maybe show us him growing up alone on Angel Island and learning about the island's traps and such, or show how Sonic and Tails met, and became little brothers, like how Sonic X did it. Sonic himself though, I don't really know what adding a backstory can do to improve the story of stopping Eggman. Sonic already has plenty of reason why he wants to stop him. He's a free spirit while Eggman is trying to force everyone to live under his rule. His friends are usually dragged into Eggman's schemes and he doesn't want them hurt, and of course, he just wants the pure shits and giggles out of the excitement of beating Eggman.

I mean fair enough, I would heavily like it to be more like Ian Flynn's era of Archie Sonic where he inputted more of a backstory for the characters before the reboot, but before that even happens, the current stories need to be written better, something that I feel can't even be done with Potac and Graff writing things.

[antyep]

Long ago in an old thread here, someone gave what I thought an awesome backstory for Sonic that was simple but down to the point.

 

As we know Sonic was from Christmas Island, but the island was very small. And given Sonic's speed, he seen every inch a thousand times a day.  It's so boring. And the island is so remote it felt like no other land exists.

It was like a prison. A laid back prison but still a prison.

Then one day he found a old bi plane and managed to fix it. With it he flew off over the ocean to explore lands he never dreamed of. The world was like a never ending adventure, something he never seen from his island, and he will never let it go.

So seeing Eggman imprisoning little animals, well, while he holds ill hatred toward the doctor, he couldn't let him get away with this. He knew what it was like to feel prisoned, and he was not going to let anyone take away anyone's freedom.

Besides, this could be fun!

Long ago in an old thread here, someone gave what I thought an awesome backstory for Sonic that was simple but down to the point.

 

As we know Sonic was from Christmas Island, but the island was very small. And given Sonic's speed, he seen every inch a thousand times a day.  It's so boring. And the island is so remote it felt like no other land exists.

It was like a prison. A laid back prison but still a prison.

Then one day he found a old bi plane and managed to fix it. With it he flew off over the ocean to explore lands he never dreamed of. The world was like a never ending adventure, something he never seen from his island, and he will never let it go.

So seeing Eggman imprisoning little animals, well, while he holds ill hatred toward the doctor, he couldn't let him get away with this. He knew what it was like to feel prisoned, and he was not going to let anyone take away anyone's freedom.

Besides, this could be fun!

[Azul]

I think Sonic would benefit immensly from having a backstory simply because there's so much curiosity surrounding the history and origins of pretty much everything that's been introduced in the series. I'm the type who likes straight answers. You can keep your ambigous mindfuckery to yourself (looking at you Shinichirō Watanabe for Cowboy Bebop ). The writers/dev team/to whoever it concerns have a tendency of introducing really great ideas but just leaving them on a base level. They've opened a flood for many many questions. Like, what are the origins of the Emeralds? Have the presenceof such powerful artifacts caused the fall of other societies? What other roles have the Emeralds played in history? What happened to the rest of the Echidnas? Because for some reason, they've fallen of the face of the planet at least around the time Knuckles developed self-awareness and speech along with the ability to care of himself, and understand his role as the guardian of the Master Emerald (I'd say 4-6). Further more, why is it that the majority of the cast don't have parents? And most importantly, if a hedgehog makes a joke to a pile of robotic ruins and no one is around to hear it, is it ethical to declare him legally insane? Granted, some of these ponders are just nit picking but all in all still great potential for story telling and world building. But as proven time and time again, SEGA wouldn't know potential if it was branded on their corporate booties.