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Sonic Lost World Joint (educational?) Review ~by Mikyeong and Diogenes


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as a general note: if this topic doesnt belong, feel free move/delete/lock etc.

this is a joint review meaning this was done and worked on by two people who share the same thoughts on the game. we hope you like it and we hope it adds discussion value to warrant its own topic

Sonic Lost World

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Sonic Lost World at a first glance is a vibrant and colorful action/adventure platforming game. Lost World as a whole focuses on the protagonist, Sonic the Hedgehog as he and Tails have to team up with arch nemesis Dr. Eggman top the Deadly Six (a new team of villains) from draining all the world's energy, thus, creating conflict amongst the three.  

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The story begins with Sonic and Tails in pursuit of Dr Eggman, who is once again capturing animals to power up his robot army. They chase him to a legendary planetoid called Lost Hex, where they find that Eggman has enslaved the Deadly Six, a group of ogre-like creatures called Zeti who can control machines telepathically. After an impulsive act by Sonic frees the Deadly Six, they immediately turn their powers against both Eggman and the heroes, and plan to use Eggman's newest doomsday machine to suck the life force out of planet Earth and everything on it. Thus Sonic and Tails find themselves temporarily allied with Eggman, in hopes of breaking through the Deadly Six's defenses, shutting down Eggman's machine, and saving the world once again.

Lost World's story is comparatively more focused on the series' main characters than other Sonic games. Much of the story is focused on Sonic's regrets for his mistakes and Tails' feelings of betrayal when Sonic allows Eggman into the group, giving us new insight into characters that have often felt tacked onto someone else's story. Unfortunately the game's poor pacing makes its main twists feel rushed, and some of its recycled and attempted jokes fall flat,  pulling the player out of the story. The story also has deus-ex-machina sequences, which are never elaborated on. The focus on the heroes also leaves the antagonists underdeveloped; the Deadly Six have shallow, cliched personalities, and no time is spent explaining what Lost Hex is, where the Zeti came from, or what the D6's intentions are beyond conquering whatever they can. The game's ending also feels rushed and anticlimactic.

All and all everything just felt like it was... there. They landed on the Lost Hex. However, what is the Lost Hex? How is it lost? What kind of mysteries fuel this world? This information is never given in the game. It felt more like a setting to land on. Tails felt angry at Sonic for not trusting him and while it is a little understandable as to why he felt betrayed, there is no actual build up to justify the sudden outburst other than to add conflict to the story. At the end of the story, Sonic does say "I will never doubt you again", however, there was never any build up to it. It felt very tacked on and rushed. Also the ending to the story was very predictable. So much so that viewers might have a hard time believing that the characters themselves didn't see it coming.   

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As for the Deadly Six, the Zeti have very distinct designs, however they all have very cliched personalities. The creators said that one look at the Zeti and the player should be able to learn about them. At it glance, this is true. Looking at this picture one can see that one is crazy, one is strong and powerful, one is flirty and vain, one is depressed, one loves to eat and is lazy and the other is an elder. However, that is all there is to know about them. That is their personality. The game never touches on their history, where they are from or if they are even related to one another. 

They do have the ability to control magnetic fields which their powers can be harnessed by the conch (which was in Eggman's possession). However nothing else about their intentions beyond destroying everything is ever mentioned in the game. As villains, the Deadly Six were rather underdeveloped.  

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Lost World's gameplay is a turn away from the boost-powered, super-fast, reaction-based gameplay of Unleashed and Generations, towards a much heavier focus on traditional, slower-paced platforming. Sonic's base speed is much more modest, levels are tighter packed, and his new parkour abilities are focused on navigating more complex terrain. The homing attack also allows players to hit multiple enemies in succession and Sonic's speed is more in the control of the player rather than through scripts. The game also includes a variable gravity gimmick, allowing for tube- and tunnel-shaped levels, as well as more twisted geometry in some levels. When the game's parts come together properly, controlling Sonic can feel exciting and stylish, however a number of control issues and questionable design choices often act as obstacles to fluid, engaging play.

Wisps return once again, and alongside old standbys like Laser, Drill, and Rocket are a few new additions. Among them are Eagle wisps, allowing for limited linear flight, Asteroid wisps that allow Sonic to absorb enemies and some terrain, and Rhythm wisps which allow Sonic to bounce between notes by tapping them on the game pad. The wisps are a mixed bag of powers; some, like Laser and Drill, make for fast-paced diversions from the core gameplay, while others like Hover and Rhythm are slow, awkward to use, and have difficulty finding a meaningful place in the game.

Lost World's levels have an almost Mario-like commitment to variety; in addition to more traditional platforming levels in both 2D and 3D, the game includes autoscrollers, rail grinding levels, a stealth-based section, pinball tables, "freefall" levels, guiding giant fruit into giant blenders, a ball-rolling level, and more. This variety may keep the game surprising, but not all ideas feel as if they've had equal polish, and its eclectic nature leaves it feeling unfocused and sometimes lacking in examples of its core gameplay. The game also includes bosses at the end of every other level; these fights often feel sloppy and disconnected from the rest of the level's gameplay, and are often easily broken by the game's multi-lock-on attack leaving them supremely underwhelming.

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One of the most cardinal sins of gaming is not teaching players whiten the game's code how to play the game. Sonic Lost World suffers from this sin. The controls are quite likely Lost World's biggest failing. Its first mistake is its failure to explain its controls properly; while not forcing a tutorial is appreciated, hints are only available by tapping an icon on the gamepad in certain areas, bringing up a game-stopping pop-up. The gameplay itself fails to explain or teach many of the game's unintuitive nuances, such as the ability to multi-lock-on to a single enemy, which enemies are only vulnerable to Sonic's new kick attack, or the roll ability's use to move through sticky surfaces. This lack of explanation combined with the series' unfortunately common high punishment for failure lead to a number of deaths that feel out of the player's control. There are also instances where the player needed to guide fruit into blenders, however that part is never explained, thus leaving the player confused as to what they are suppose to do.

Aside from the issue of explanations, the game's controls have an unpolished feel to them. Turning feels oddly twitchy and affects Sonic's speed unintuitively. The wall running ability activates just inconsistently enough to feel unreliable. Jumping while ice skating will lock away most of your midair abilities, leaving you with little control. These small mistakes, bad choices, and overlooked problems add up to make a game that feels temperamental and uncooperative when the player doesn't act according to the designer's exact intentions.

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Lost World's graphics trade some of the lighting, effects, and detail of Generations in favor of a more stylized, retro art style and a solid 60 fps. The game's atmosphere is an evolution of games like Sonic CD, pressing a brightly colored and more abstract world over a realistic one. However at times its art style may seem a bit oversimplified compared to the high level of detail of previous games.*

Fun fact: Lost World's level design, according to it's creators, was based off Jack and the Beanstalk. 

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Lost World's music is a bit of an oddball for the series; while there are still some exciting, high-energy tracks, there's a greater variety in music, including some more atmospheric and almost melancholy tunes. Bright, peppy Windy Hill themes are replaced with subtler music for underground levels. Tropical music given a bit of a scratchy edge. Grinding through an underwater tunnel is given an almost contemplative tune. It's an odd mix that may not fit traditional Sonic tastes, but the variety gives it something for everyone.

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The game includes two levels as free DLC; a charming but ultimately forgettable Yoshi's Island level, and an unfortunately short but detail-packed Legend of Zelda level. Neither is interesting enough to sell the game, but no doubt there's some enjoyment to be found in seeing Sonic kick around some shyguys or dodge rolling gorons in his own green tunic and hat. A third bonus level themed around Sega's own NiGHTS also exists, but for Wii U owners was only available in the game's Deadly Six Bonus Edition.

Items can be found on the overworld map, by completing extra challenges, and through the game's Miiverse functionality, including Sonic staples such as 10-rings, shields, and speed shoes, available to use any time in mid-level. Unfortunately these items are easy to forget about and hard to justify stopping for, leaving the system feeling extraneous.

Another point against the game is the requirement to save a set number of animals to unlock each Zone's final level. In addition to smashing robots and popping open animal capsules, carnival-themed minigames are available to grind out animals more quickly, however the system still often becomes an unnatural barrier preventing the player from playing as they choose.

Red Rings return again to encourage exploration and extend the game's replay value. Their final reward is Super Sonic once again, however, as the game is nearly 100% complete at that point and more levels are based around platforming or gimmicks than usual, there's little opportunity to make use of the transformation, thus rendering it useless.

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Sonic Lost World is a game of heavily mixed quality, and an overload of ideas at the expense of polish. The game's parkour mechanics and stronger platforming focus sound positive in theory, but the execution often feels lacking. Rather than filling the game with as many level ideas as possible, Sonic Team likely would have been better served spending more time refining the game's core mechanics. The success of its aesthetic direction is more up to the player's personal opinion, but the changes seem emblematic of the series' inability to choose its own direction, a problem that has been holding it back for years. Overall Lost World is bound to be seen as a divisive game even among the series' fans, and a questionable choice for anyone who isn't hooked on the blue blur*.

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*Mikyeong footnote: The lighting in Sonic Lost World compared to the Genesis trilogy and Sonic CD, makes the worlds seem more plastic where as in the earlier games, the lighting had a balance, thus creating such a balance between realistic and abstract

*General footnote: If you are not a big fan of predictable and rushed plots, out of character moments, wonky controls and forgettable DLCs, then this game isn't for you. However, if you are looking to have a totally different experience than what you have had in previous Sonic games, then we do recommend giving this game a try. However, our suggestion to you would be to buy the game when it is on sale. 

As a general note, if you are playing this game on Steam, it is highly recommended that you use a controller rather than your keyboard.

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So...quick question...but how is this a joint review? I mean, I can tell where Dio took over in some parts because a lot of what's said seems to be in his structure, but in a joint review, both people are meant to be discussing at the same time. You're both meant to be giving your opinions on the elements of the game. That's how things work with co-op reviews. Both people give their opinions on the story, and the elements of the game, and then both have a final concluding opinion on it. This causes conflict, and it also causes differing opinions. For example, I know Dio somewhat enjoyed the story of the game while Mik disliked it, but from what I read, it felt like it was written solely by Dio, and then just posted by Mik. 

The only part it actively feels likes like things were co-op were the footnotes, and I hardly need to say that isn't a good thing for a co-op review.

Even at that, what even was the point of making a joint review if you guys share the same opinion? Usually the reason of a co-op review is so we can get different aspects or viewpoints on the game, and that especially would have been useful for a game like Lost World that's one of the most mixed games in the series to date, so really, what even was the point of a joint review if it was just gonna amount to "we agreed on virtually everything".

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9 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

So...quick question...but how is this a joint review? I mean, I can tell where Dio took over in some parts because a lot of what's said seems to be in his structure, but in a joint review, both people are meant to be discussing at the same time. You're both meant to be giving your opinions on the elements of the game. That's how things work with co-op reviews. Both people give their opinions on the story, and the elements of the game, and then both have a final concluding opinion on it. This causes conflict, and it also causes differing opinions. For example, I know Dio somewhat enjoyed the story of the game while Mik disliked it, but from what I read, it felt like it was written solely by Dio, and then just posted by Mik. 

The only part it actively feels likes like things were co-op were the footnotes, and I hardly need to say that isn't a good thing for a co-op review.

Even at that, what even was the point of making a joint review if you guys share the same opinion? Usually the reason of a co-op review is so we can get different aspects or viewpoints on the game, and that especially would have been useful for a game like Lost World that's one of the most mixed games in the series to date, so really, what even was the point of a joint review if it was just gonna amount to "we agreed on virtually everything".

There's not really a concrete definition of a joint review so I don't know where this is coming from. Maybe she just wanted to give him credit because he helped her write the post.  They didn't really do anything wrong here.

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Just now, Wraith said:

There's not really a concrete definition of a joint review so I don't know where this is coming from. Maybe she just wanted to give him credit because he helped her write the post.  They didn't really do anything wrong here.

We both worked on it together actually. And if we had differing opinions then it wouldn't much of a co-op because it would feel like we were fighting instead of giving people our non-biased thoughts on the game. 

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Just now, Wraith said:

There's not really a concrete definition of a joint review so I don't know where this is coming from. Maybe she just wanted to give him credit because he helped her write the post.  They didn't really do anything wrong here.

Except a lot of these opinions seem to be more like Dio's opinions rather than what Mik's said previously, which would obviously mean he had a hand in writing it, which is fine in of itself. My problem is there seems to be barely any actual opinions that are Mik's. Watch any co-op review you want, and I mean like an actual good co-op review, like The Completionist and SomeCallMeJohnny, and many others. These co-op reviews/videos have both people commenting on their opinions.

1 minute ago, Mikyeong said:

We both worked on it together actually. And if we had differing opinions then it wouldn't much of a co-op because it would feel like we were fighting instead of giving people our non-biased thoughts on the game. 

Except it really wouldn't. Almost every good co-op review is people both agreeing and disagreeing. Even Let's Players I hate like Game Grumps knew this, for example, Egoraptor is known for his total hatred against the Sonic series, only for JonTron to call him out when he's getting bias. It's really not fighting by saying "Alright, that's your opinion, but in my opinion, I saw the story as this this, and this". That's what makes a co-op review so good, seeing the reviewers play off each other, and showing differing points of view. By just blindly agreeing with the other reviewer, it feels more like they are taking over the review more than co-hosting it. What exactly is the point of making a co-op review if it ends up just amounting to "We didn't have anything to add, so we just totally agree". I really don't understand either, because as I said, you said multiple times you disliked Lost World's story while Dio enjoyed the story, and yet we never even got that.

In general, that's a really bad idea for a game like Lost World which is unbelievably mixed. If you wanted to do a really good co-op review of it, you would get someone who has a differing opinion so you can show both points of view, and see both the good and bad of the game, and why it is so mixed. As Surreal said above:

2 minutes ago, SurrealBrain said:

I can't even see Mikyeong's contributions beyond the footnotes.

 

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It's true that I wrote more than she did, but if you can't see her contributions you're not paying very close attention. Plus the way we went about it, writing our opinions independently, isn't really the kind of format that leads to a back-and-forth on the subject.

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4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It's true that I wrote more than she did, but if you can't see her contributions you're not paying very close attention. Plus the way we went about it, writing our opinions independently, isn't really the kind of format that leads to a back-and-forth on the subject.

I pretty much wove my opinions and yours together sense we thought the same on the game. But I made a fair amount of contributions to the subject, so it is a massive insult to say that I did not do anything or very little, because that is far from the truth. It is also a massive insult to my intelligence. The review belonged to both of us, plain and simple and we both worked on it for some time. 

 

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1 minute ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Guys, let's not nitpick whether or not this fits under the definition of "joint review", considering there's not even a concrete definition of that, as Wraith pointed out. It would just result in us going far off-track anyway. Instead, discussion should focus on the content of the review itself.

I don't really think that's fair. This should also be constructive criticism of the review as well, and I think that the feeling of bias towards one of the reviewers' opinion is an important piece of feedback to give in a co-op review.

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2 minutes ago, SurrealBrain said:

We are discussing it, though. I seriously can't see anything of Mikyeong's words beyond footnotes. I think Ryan put it far better than I could.

You're actually not discussing the critique of Lost World. You're discussing the structure of the review, which isn't what this topic is ultimately about and all it has done is caused the thread to derail. I'm only saying this one more time: talk about the review itself i.e., the opinions featured therein, or do not post. If I or another staffer have to say anything about this, it's an automatic strike.

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As a reviewer myself, I'd like to comment regarding how it was written. I'm not going to talk about if it fits the definition of a joint review, but I would like to provide some feedback on how to better write reviews as a group.

Joint review or not, it doesn't feel like a two man effort, and it didn't have to be. Game reviews where multiple people reviewed the same thing together often split their reviews complete from each other. By combining your reviews, it's hard to tell who's opinion on a certain subject it is. It's not who wrote it, but who is really saying it. You can't just work on this one review together like a bunch of people writing a group essay in Google Docs, because reviews are heavily opinionated. The reason why I feel like the review is mainly Dio's opinion is because it expresses itself that way. Who is saying that "Lost World is a divisive game"? Both of you, or one of you?

The easiest solution is to just split both of your opinions apart from each other. By having you both talk separately about your thoughts on the game, and maybe some "I agree"/"I disagree" responses, you can help people easily distinguish who is who, what they think about the games independently, then consider what both reviews bring major points of.

In this situation, you have a ton of ways you can express both of your opinions yet still bring the review as one.

  • Do it like Famitsu. Although far from accurate, Famitsu has the reviewers on this one game put their opinions together through a scoring system; Instead of one review with a 9/10, there's four separate reviews ranging from 8/10, 5/10, 7/10, 10/10. Combine those scores together, and you get the sum total of 30/40. Not the best way to determine the final point of a review (since scores are heavily subjective), but hey, if the reviews are split together and brought together through this form of a system, it'll work fine.
  • Evaluate the major components separately, then put them together. You know how in some reviews, people have a "Gameplay" section, a "Story" section, and a "Presentation" section? This is what group reviews are best for. Both reviews write down their opinions on those components seperately, so for example:
Quote

Rainbow Six: Siege

-Gameplay-

Nikoback: Rainbow Six Siege slows down the typical shooter formula, allowing for massive tactical play. Both teams get unique classes and gear that makes each game dynamic. Throw in destructible terrain and stellar map design, and you've got a game that has great mechanics meshing with great design.

Backniko: Rainbow Six Siege plays like Counter-Strike, which was initially giving me the bad vibe of it being a complete rip-off of CS. Thankfully, there's a lot more diverse systems and mechanics to keep it unique, and a whole lot like the classic Rainbow Six games in the past.

-Presentation-

Nikoback: The game's visuals look good, but it's menu UI is some of the most clunkiest crap I've seen in ages.

Backniko: I disagree with Nikoback. The menu UI is fairly alright for PC users, although the console versions had to make do with something a lot less accessible (I. E. You have to press more buttons to access things).

Ok, this was a example (It's not actually a review for Rainbow Six: Siege, but it borrowed elements from a first impressions I did months ago), but here, we can see who is talking, and what opinion they have on a certain part of the game.

The importance is clarity (Journalism/Review 101). Yes, I can see moments where I know Mik is writing it, or when Dio is, but to the general audience, one can easily perceive this of just being written by one person. And for a joint-review/collab review/whatever, it needs to clearly show who's talking.

 

On the review itself, the example shown above would actually be much more helpful too, since it seems like you're talking about each major component of Lost World separately. I think the review's content is well-written (Despite the issue with the collab) and it's formatting is a-OK.

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1 minute ago, Kaze no Klonoa said:

As a reviewer myself, I'd like to comment regarding how it was written. I'm not going to talk about if it fits the definition of a joint review, but I would like to provide some feedback on how to better write reviews as a group.

Joint review or not, it doesn't feel like a two man effort, and it didn't have to be. Game reviews where multiple people reviewed the same thing together often split their reviews complete from each other. By combining your reviews, it's hard to tell who's opinion on a certain subject it is. It's not who wrote it, but who is really saying it. You can't just work on this one review together like a bunch of people writing a group essay in Google Docs, because reviews are heavily opinionated. The reason why I feel like the review is mainly Dio's opinion is because it expresses itself that way. Who is saying that "Lost World is a divisive game"? Both of you, or one of you?

The easiest solution is to just split both of your opinions apart from each other. By having you both talk separately about your thoughts on the game, and maybe some "I agree"/"I disagree" responses, you can help people easily distinguish who is who, what they think about the games independently, then consider what both reviews bring major points of.

In this situation, you have a ton of ways you can express both of your opinions yet still bring the review as one.

  • Do it like Famitsu. Although far from accurate, Famitsu has the reviewers on this one game put their opinions together through a scoring system; Instead of one review with a 9/10, there's four separate reviews ranging from 8/10, 5/10, 7/10, 10/10. Combine those scores together, and you get the sum total of 30/40. Not the best way to determine the final point of a review (since scores are heavily subjective), but hey, if the reviews are split together and brought together through this form of a system, it'll work fine.
  • Evaluate the major components separately, then put them together. You know how in some reviews, people have a "Gameplay" section, a "Story" section, and a "Presentation" section? This is what group reviews are best for. Both reviews write down their opinions on those components seperately, so for example:

Ok, this was a example (It's not actually a review for Rainbow Six: Siege, but it borrowed elements from a first impressions I did months ago), but here, we can see who is talking, and what opinion they have on a certain part of the game.

The importance is clarity (Journalism/Review 101). Yes, I can see moments where I know Mik is writing it, or when Dio is, but to the general audience, one can easily perceive this of just being written by one person. And for a joint-review/collab review/whatever, it needs to clearly show who's talking.

Exactly what we're saying. It really doesn't feel like it was written by two people.

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Look, I get the need to want to discuss review styles and everything else, but that REALLY isn't the purpose of the topic at all. Drop it. Discuss/debate the contents (not the writers) or don't bother. Let this be the LAST TIME we have to say anything about it.

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Just now, SurrealBrain said:

Exactly what we're saying. It really doesn't feel like it was written by two people.

The problem is that the only real reason why it should be called out is to determine how objectified and well-written it was overall. 

Versus the overall review, I don't think I really had a problem with it beyond that one oversight about how to really joint and combine reviews into one. It was easy to read and got it's point across.

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I've had it. I said continuous arguing on this ridiculously pedantic argument would result in strikes so that's what I'm gonna do. You all are not just going to fucking talk over staff members like you own the place.

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As a general note: we had to play Sonic Lost World many times to refresh our memories before we jotted down notes. I mostly played the Steam version and Dio has the WiiU version, none of us have the 3Ds version. Nonetheless, like we said, if you are into clunky controls and weak plots, then this isn't the game for you. However, if you want to try something new, wait for a sale (which I do believe there is a sale on steam). 

But yeah, it's been really fun to write this and we hope you guys like it and I do want to thank Diogenes for sticking with me. His support and contribution meant the world to me and we hope we can do something like this again, if staff allows it.

So, we want to know, what do you think of the game? :)

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25 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

So, we want to know, what do you think of the game? :)

Hm, when it comes to this game, I just can't but be of two minds with it nowadays. I'll just focus on the gameplay for now, if y'all don't mind.

It's like, on the one hand, the sheer basis of the gameplay works rather well. The parkour style just invites a more active take on Sonic's action-platform gameplay style than ever before, even his Adventure style. Yet, on the other hand, the way the gameplay itself was executed left an unfortunate lot to be desired. Part of me just can't help but feel that it would've been better off without any side-scrolling sections/acts, Wisps (as much as I still love them) and extremely gimmicky levels like the Snowball Waltz course and that Sky Road act where Sonic's gliding around.

I want to love the game, really I do, but it has too many questionable elements to it for that to be possible past a certain point. There's just a point where it's just too much for my liking, is all.

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So I recently snagged Lost Steam and gave it a whirl myself.

Thinking back at it, while it did have a lack of focus and some mechanics were either not well explained or refined, I still really liked it.

Atleast I liked it more than Colors

I can understand why people would find Lost World mediocre, I personally found it to be a good game in its own right. Also I still enjoy Lost World's story thought it is very flawed (as if any of the stories in the series were perfect. :P) Some of the plot points it showcased are some ideas I would be very interested in seeing but since Pontac/Graff rushed it, I guess they couldn't go as in-depth as they wanted.

Overall, I still very much like Lost World (yes, even the 3DS version but I don't love it as much as I did back then but I still like it) andI would ecstatic to see its better ideas get refined in future titles!

As for the review? It's nicely written, if I say so myself though I guess it could benefit from better organization but that's just me. Nothing much besides that.

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