The BumbleKast Topic of Archival (And Discussion)

[Big Panda]

Hold it you've lost me: what's the "BBA attack"?

[Ziggyfin]

1 hour ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Hold it you've lost me: what's the "BBA attack"?

Battle Bird Armada  

When they attacked and lazered Castle Acorn.

[Big Panda]

Wait you mean that still happened post-reboot? When was that confirmed?

[Kaotic Kanine]

25 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Wait you mean that still happened post-reboot? When was that confirmed?

I'm pretty sure they were referring to Pre-Reboot right there. The core question was basically "How did the city have food and water when it's composed entirely of nanites", something exclusive only to Pre-Reboot. Though maybe the Battle Bird Armada still attacked Castle Acorn to get at Babylon Garden Post-Reboot but I personally have high doubts about that.

In other news, I'm still not very fond of how Ian has been handling "Unleashed" and his self-awareness about it doesn't help in that regard. I get it, he's more focused on setting up the Post-Reboot world and is using the plot of Unleashed as an excuse to have the characters travel the world. But he could at least do the original game some much needed justice in doing so, which I personally don't think has ever been the case (which also really sucks since Unleashed is a game that is highly disrespected over one single element that isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be). I mean, it's really telling that Ian decided to do an "adaptation" for Sonic the Fighters in the middle of what's supposed to be Unleashed. Yeah, "Champions" turned out good but this would be like if Ian decided to "adapt" Sonic R in the middle of an "adaptation" for Colors; tell me Colors fans, would you be amused by that? Especially if the Sonic R "adaptation" proves to be more faithful and respectful than the Colors "adaptation"?

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

...Champions was more faithful to Sonic the Fighters than the Sonic Unleashed adaption is to its game? Really? They fundamentally changed the plotline from a competition to see who can ride Tails' spaceship to fight on the Death Egg II to a fighting tournament held for publicity and profit by a character that didn't even appear in the game. To be clear, as a fan of Sonic the Fighters, I don't really mind these changes, especially since I really like what they were replaced with. But a "faithful" adaption it wasn't.

[Kaotic Kanine]

Okay, faithful was a very stupid choice of words on my part. Point is, "Champions" feels way more like a respectable "adaptation" of Sonic the Fighters than "Shattered World Crisis" has been for Unleashed. "Champions" feels like a celebration for Sonic the Fighters, meanwhile SWC is simply using Unleashed to further its own agenda and mostly doesn't care to respect the original game; what with Professor Pickle being flanderized into a completely oblivious dunderhead (when in the actual game he was simply quirky) and not appearing ever again (despite being a rather major character), the Werehog having a delayed appearance, being fundamentally mangled when it finally debuts (yeah, I'm one of those people who weren't fond of the "savage Werehog" route), and having infrequent appearances afterwards that don't really affect anything in the slightest (which was also the case in Unleashed to a degree but I was hoping the comics would "fix" that), Chip's similarly infrequent appearances with much of his character development and friendship with Sonic being shunted to the side multiple times... And I shudder to think of how Dark Gaia will be handled due to Ian stating in the past that Dark Gaia is one of his more disliked Sonic characters. The fact that "Champions" took place in the middle of what's supposed to be Unleashed is further proof, to me at least, at how little the comics seem to care about Unleashed, choosing to "adapt" a game in the middle of the "adaptation" for an entirely different game and doing a much better job of it. Ian being self-aware about that fact and not really caring in the slightest only makes things worse, if you ask me. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Kaotic Kanine

[Mauro Fonseca]

Pretty much. It's just really frustrating because there was no need to hold Unleashed as a sacrificial lamb if you wanted to do a world-run arc- just, you know, do a world-run arc. The comic's had those before :V

[Dr. Detective]

When it comes to Sonic the Fighters, I can't say I care much whether or not the adaptation is faithful. Since I liked Unleashed's story (and have actually experienced it) I feel that one may end up being something I care a little more about. That could all change depending on how much fun I have with the story though. That Champions arc was the most fun I've had with the Sonic comic in recent memory and I don't think anything since has topped it just yet. I didn't even figure out it was supposed to be a Sonic the Fighters adaption until the second issue when I was trying to figure out why Espio was here. 

That scene where they first get to Casino Park and Tails tells the robot not to scratch up his new ride is something I wanted to see in the games. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

12 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Okay, faithful was a very stupid choice of words on my part. Point is, "Champions" feels way more like a respectable "adaptation" of Sonic the Fighters than "Shattered World Crisis" has been for Unleashed. "Champions" feels like a celebration for Sonic the Fighters, meanwhile SWC is simply using Unleashed to further its own agenda and mostly doesn't care to respect the original game; what with Professor Pickle being flanderized into a completely oblivious dunderhead (when in the actual game he was simply quirky) and not appearing ever again (despite being a rather major character), the Werehog having a delayed appearance, being fundamentally mangled when it finally debuts (yeah, I'm one of those people who weren't fond of the "savage Werehog" route), and having infrequent appearances afterwards that don't really affect anything in the slightest (which was also the case in Unleashed to a degree but I was hoping the comics would "fix" that), Chip's similarly infrequent appearances with much of his character development and friendship with Sonic being shunted to the side multiple times... And I shudder to think of how Dark Gaia will be handled due to Ian stating in the past that Dark Gaia is one of his more disliked Sonic characters. The fact that "Champions" took place in the middle of what's supposed to be Unleashed is further proof, to me at least, at how little the comics seem to care about Unleashed, choosing to "adapt" a game in the middle of the "adaptation" for an entirely different game and doing a much better job of it. Ian being self-aware about that fact and not really caring in the slightest only makes things worse, if you ask me. 

I feel people are overblowing the circumstances here, because that's disregarding the reason why SWC is using Unleashed in the first place to re-establish an entirely new continuity after a messy reboot threw away a lot of the old one. It's not hard to see why some of those changes were done and why not everything would work the way people expect them to. And one could argue that it's less them not respecting the original game than it is capitalizing on a lot of the original game's missed opportunities - Unleashed had a rather small cast (which is when they gutted the number of characters) that was rather disproportionate to the threat level being presented (the one time something this massive happens, and Team Dark, Chaotix, Cream, and heck even Knuckles is no where involved? Wat?). So given that fact alone and how the comics have a MUCH bigger cast than the games combined, Chip isn't likely to get as much screentime as everyone else involved given how they're portraying the situation as a worldwide crisis affecting everyone and not a small inconvenience that was easier to shrug off as the original game treated it. Nevermind that Chip interacting with more than just Sonic makes a whole lot of sense if he's suppose to be the one to help save and rebuild the world - Sonic isn't the only person out there to bond with, and Chip befriending and bonding with other people gives him greater motive to protect that very world for their sake. That's not to say that Sonic can't be the one spending the most time with him, granted, but it doesn't have to be an exclusive thing anymore than those who hate Chip go crying about how he "stole Tails's role as a sidekick" in favor of Tails. And Pickle was quite oblivious in the game as well, given how he was captured by Eggman, and the only thing worrying about him was the quality of the sandwiches he was given.

Also, the "savage Werehog" route was them doing away with the telling, rather than showing, that Sonic had a strong mental will to resist Dark Gaia's effects - if you have to tell rather than show, you might have been better off not doing it in the first place, because that's not exactly a good practice in writing. Plus, it gives Sonic flaws, which the comic counterpart needs to balance him out because even if he's closer to the games here he's still much more powerful than his game counterpart. And that's another thing, because people have complained since Colors about Sonic in the games being overly capable of dealing with threats that it doesn't feel like there's much conflict in the story, even implying him to be a bit of a Gary Stu at times.

I don't see how Champions taking place in the middle Unleashed shows how little they care about it, especially given how even Champions isn't entirely faithful either - if that was the case, they wouldn't be receiving a lot of praise from those who like Unleashed and the comic adaptation. And I'd imagine it would be much worse of an adaptation if they didn't care. I'd say they care less about the vitriol it produces and more about telling a good story for those who love the games and the comics.

Also,

12 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Yeah, "Champions" turned out good but this would be like if Ian decided to "adapt" Sonic R in the middle of an "adaptation" for Colors; tell me Colors fans, would you be amused by that? Especially if the Sonic R "adaptation" proves to be more faithful and respectful than the Colors "adaptation"?

As a fan of Colors, yes, I most certainly would be amused of that. R adapted in a Colors adaptation sounds like an even more interesting premise than the original given that, despite my enjoyment of it, Colors was heavily lacking in a lot of departments. So I'd love to see a premise like that where characters like Amy, Metal Sonic, heck Metal Knuckles, Tails Doll, and all the other characters like the Freedom Fighters and even Egg Bosses race around Eggman's amusement park over the Wisps and Eggman's mind control device.

[KoDaiko]

I almost forget they're currently doing the Unleashed adaption. All I remember is the FF running and hitting Egg Boss's base and fighting badniks and minions (pretty much the same thing) and a lot of what is supposed to be sad stories. Its like 20% Unleashed, 80% everything else. And the 80% have so much drama and emphasis that You can't tell it's Unleashed until you see the Werehog or the minions. Oh yeah and Chip.  And its ending so we haven't known much about Chip's happy personality, or how he becomes another good friend of Sonic, or how Sonic travels around the world seeing and enjoying the unique environment and culture, or Sonic's friend not recognizing Sonic because of his outside but later recognizing him by his inside, or Prof. Pickles helping a lot, or how Chip realize his identity and help Sonic fight (his friendship with Sonic is very important in this part), and in the end how Sonic quietly looks at Chip's collar before running. OK maybe they did but I can't remember much because it was barely focused upon. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Or, maybe because it's handled differently in the comics? Like a lot of things it's adapted?

And I take it you're just being facetious, because it otherwise looks like you weren't paying attention to what was going on  as well as nitpicking minor parts of Unleashed not present in Archie.

[KoDaiko]

1 hour ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Or, maybe because it's handled differently in the comics? Like a lot of things it's adapted?

And I take it you're just being facetious, because it otherwise looks like you weren't paying attention to what was going on  as well as nitpicking minor parts of Unleashed not present in Archie.

I wouldn't mind if it was handled differently as long as its done nicely, I still feel there were many opportunities they had but wasted. I guess there is a limit to what they can throw in the comic since they have such different universe from the games, but it still makes me sad.

I tend to forget what happen unless it has a strong impression or I like it, so maybe that why. I was rereading some of the comic I had, and I saw Chip in some of them that I don't remember seeing. I guess its because he's just...there. Not an important character like the Freedom Fighters or the Egg bosses, not doing anything significant, just a tiny dog drawn in the background or on top of someone saying nothing or commenting something (except for the ones where he is important, the SU arc with Knuckles explaining his identity right away and the one about the temples). He is physically useless in the games too, but he did have the role of Sonic's buddy in the game. Having so much other character just...takes that away too. Maybe I'm still missing stuff here, I need to look more.

 If its that the scenes I mentioned are minor, I thought they were some of the nicer ones that was worth putting in.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

20 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

I wouldn't mind if it was handled differently as long as its done nicely, I still feel there were many opportunities they had but wasted. I guess there is a limit to what they can throw in the comic since they have such different universe from the games, but it still makes me sad.

I tend to forget what happen unless it has a strong impression or I like it, so maybe that why. I was rereading some of the comic I had, and I saw Chip in some of them that I don't remember seeing. I guess its because he's just...there. Not an important character like the Freedom Fighters or the Egg bosses, not doing anything significant, just a tiny dog drawn in the background or on top of someone saying nothing or commenting something (except for the ones where he is important, the SU arc with Knuckles explaining his identity right away and the one about the temples). He is physically useless in the games too, but he did have the role of Sonic's buddy in the game. Having so much other character just...takes that away too. Maybe I'm still missing stuff here, I need to look more.

 If its that the scenes I mentioned are minor, I thought they were some of the nicer ones that was worth putting in.

How is that much of an argument if Chip was also physically useless in the games as well? You talk about Chip being such background as if that's an exclusive issue with him in the comics. Tails has been given minor background roles, Vector and Charmy have been given minor background roles, as have major characters like Team Dark and members of the Freedom Fighters, And the only Egg Bosses that have recieved anywhere near the same amount of focus as these major characters until the latest SU arc were Cassia and Clove. Nevermind that Chip is still central to the crisis going on because his role as Light Gaia enforces it.

And let's not forget that the games did the same thing in reverse to other characters that were there, Amy being nothing more than background and Tails being reduced to a chauffeur flying Sonic around the world. And after you talk to Pickle, he's generally background for most of the game. For all of Unleashed's strong points, it has a number of weaknesses with the way it handles it's characters that people are quite content to ignore.

[KoDaiko]

10 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

How is that much of an argument if Chip was also physically useless in the games as well? You talk about Chip being such background as if that's an exclusive issue with him in the comics. Tails has been given minor background roles, Vector and Charmy have been given minor background roles, as have major characters like Team Dark and members of the Freedom Fighters, And the only Egg Bosses that have recieved anywhere near the same amount of focus as these major characters until the latest SU arc were Cassia and Clove. Nevermind that Chip is still central to the crisis going on because his role as Light Gaia enforces it.

And let's not forget that the games did the same thing in reverse to other characters that were there, Amy being nothing more than background and Tails being reduced to a chauffeur flying Sonic around the world. And after you talk to Pickle, he's generally background for most of the game. For all of Unleashed's strong points, it has a number of weaknesses with the way it handles it's characters that people are quite content to ignore.

I already said he is physically useless in the game  but that doesn't mean he should be useless in everything else. I can still tolerate with Tails and other characters who was in Unleashed not having very strong roles in comic  because aside from Archie-verse having so much character they need to divide roles, they can appear anytime because they are not exclusive to one game. They may not have much roles now but they have appeared throughout the comic, still appear now and then and have arcs dedicated to them. While Prof.Pickles has a chance of appearing again in the comic if he ever needs to, Chip only appeared on Earth's surface because the specific event in Unleashed happened and must be gone when Unleashed ends. I feel he should've had more focus on since this is his only chance of appearing and interacting with the other characters. We still have a number of issues until the adaption ends but he doesn't have much development in his character. He immediately found out his identity through Tikal (not his memory but he knows he is Light Gaia and say he will do his job), and is not strongly bonded with anyone (named by Charmy, not have fun with Sonic, pushed to background most of time). Most of his focus were dealt in a few pages with the exception of his introduction, while other plots and characters take an issue or two. He still need to activate the temple, be Light Gaia, defeat Dark Gaia, and go away but I think the comic will do it all at once. The game is terrible at establishing strong roles, but in Chip's case Archie should've strengthened it, not take them away. I liked the game scene where he gain back his memory, realize who he is and try to leave Sonic because he think its his job to fix everything and doesn't want to cause trouble for him. I don't know if he can do it in the comic though  

For Egg Bosses, I also remember the Vulture lady with her Sonic-ish friends. I know it was an opportunity to show the new characters around the world and I would say it was clever doing that, I don't mind them taking spotlight and having importance to the plot as long as they don't steal too much from the adaption the comic is doing at the same time. I do feel they gave away all the information too fast though; they could've foreshadowed their situation/past and went in depth later, that would be much interesting.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

On 4/7/2016 at 8:53 AM, KoDaiko said:

I already said he is physically useless in the game  but that doesn't mean he should be useless in everything else.

I know that. I was asking how that's an argument against Chip's role in the comic if the games themselves haven't given him that much like you said? And mind you, no one was saying he should be useless in everything else.

The entire point here being that Chip isn't given the short stick as much as people make it out to be, and is instead sharing it with everyone else. His role here hasn't been taken away than it has been balanced with everything else the comic has been doing -- he's still Light Gaia, and despite Tikal revealing his name earlier than expected he's still has his amnesia and doesn't know his role yet, so he helping everyone else out in dealing with the crisis they've been dealt with until the time comes to know who he is. One can argue that they given priorities to other elements, but its not like he won't be given his turn to take focus in importance. Though it probably would have been better strengthened had the higher ups not decided to interrupt the entire plot with that damn World's Unite crossover.

[KoDaiko]

On 2016/4/8 at 10:04 AM, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

I know that. I was asking how that's an argument against Chip's role in the comic if the games themselves haven't given him that much like you said? And mind you, no one was saying he should be useless in everything else.

The entire point here being that Chip isn't given the short stick as much as people make it out to be, and is instead sharing it with everyone else. His role here hasn't been taken away than it has been balanced with everything else the comic has been doing -- he's still Light Gaia, and despite Tikal revealing his name earlier than expected he's still has his amnesia and doesn't know his role yet, so he helping everyone else out in dealing with the crisis they've been dealt with until the time comes to know who he is. One can argue that they given priorities to other elements, but its not like he won't be given his turn to take focus in importance. Though it probably would have been better strengthened had the higher ups not decided to interrupt the entire plot with that damn World's Unite crossover.

I acknowledged that he is physically useless in the game because some people think more role=fighting, and I don't expect him to do something physically like the FF who fight along side Sonic (except Cream who Ian state cannot fight because her personality and limit). While he didn't do anything visually or physically, he was still able to have a presence or importance in the game because aside from being the key to the story, there is less characters who dominate the spotlight.

As I said earlier, because of the number and handling of the cast is different, the handling of Chip feels different. You say his role was balanced or shared, but his presence not as Light Gaia but Chip is diluted with all the other characters who have both physically and nonphysically strong roles. The game made it feel Chip had to travel with Sonic, Sonic taking him under his wing while he do his usual world saving like he does with other game-exclusive characters, while the comic had Knuckles drop him off to FF because they already know he's Light Gaia who will fix everything and they'll need him. It's like they only need his power and doesn't really care about him as a person. Also, Chip was told he was Light Gaia who had the role of fixing the situation created by Dark Gaia, and if Tikal told the same information she told Knuckles then he would know he lacks the power to do so currently. He accept this role and said he will somehow try to save everyone when the time comes. He now has the knowledge and acceptance as Light Gaia, his memory doesn't have much impact on his identity anymore and only as a "trigger" to activate his power.

I dunno how to compare. It's like having a Secret Ring adaption where all the FF help him along as storybook characters and Shahra's (maybe Ali Baba and Sinbad's too) role being "shared" with them. Also her identity and all that revealed in the beginning. she wouldn't have the same impact as in the game if she had less roles/ her roles "shared" to other characters. I'm not saying each exact detail should be in the comic, I'm good with good original adaptions,  but...I dunno...its like they're doing an adaption but only partially, making it original but only partially, in a bad balance, making me think "can they just be more close to the game or be more original on it?!" Like Chip's introduction through Knuckles; since he's the one who meet him, agree to help him, and his group (Charmy, technically) name him, it would make sense if they did unleashed or at least Chip's friendship thing but with Knuckles. Looking back it felt similar to the Sonic-and-Chip bond in the game. But then he just hands Chip to the FF, taking away the interesting interactions he did with Knuckles and reduced to the background. Makes me think WHAT WAS THEIR INTERACTION FOR????(I thought of an example where you're thrown in the air and you feel you're moving, but it's not the pleasant experience of floating, you have no control over it, it feels like both falling up and falling down, and you just want physics to make a decision to keep moving you to the direction thrown or drop you to the floor.)

It's more of a personal complaint, really. When the newest preview came out, I felt better because Chip had more focus than when they were with Lupe and any other place where he's just drawn small in each panel hiding or saying "watch out!" or "that was cool!" . There was only Tails and Chip having a conversation only these two can do, well sort of, despite the content sounding somewhat unnecessary. And yes I agree with your opinion that the 2nd Crossover was very unnecessary. I wonder if it had an impact on how long the adaption will be? Because if it does, that sucks.

[shdowhunt60]

I do think it's a case of Chip having to share the spotlight with Sonic with everyone else, rather than it just being him and Sonic as it was in the games. I could turn around the complaint about that by complaining that Unleashed arbitrarily shoved everyone else aside to put Chip at the forefront, which is something that bugged ME when Amy and Tails were treated like absolute throwaways.

I would probably be more understanding if it was a case of "Well, Sonic and Chip were a really nice duo in the game", but I never felt like that was the case. Some of it was because Sonic himself was boring and had absolutely none of the bite that made the character fun in the first place, but the other part was that Chip himself was annoying. He and Sonic just became instant best friends, and there was no conflict or development in there relationship. 

This isn't a case like with Sonic and Tails where they're bromance personified, and both characters just bounce off each other so naturally either. I mean, this is the same duo that gave us stuff like this.

Sonic and Chip never had that kind of chemistry.

Someone brought up in another thread that they missed when Knuckles and Chip were together? I think I agree. Knuckles and Chip worked surprisingly well together. That scene where they nicked the Emerald Shard off of that pompous rich lady was great.

What was my point again? I don't know. Either way, I don't really get this obsession with the comics not adapting Unleashed on a one-to-one basis, when frankly Unleashed's story wasn't all that great to begin with, and didn't really present anything that I thought could be taken away from it. I'm fine with Ian taking the amount of creative liberty he has, I just don't agree with how he's doing it at times.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Excuse the bit of quote dissection, it just makes things easier to point out and read.

23 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

I acknowledged that he is physically useless in the game because some people think more role=fighting, and I don't expect him to do something physically like the FF who fight along side Sonic (except Cream who Ian state cannot fight because her personality and limit). While he didn't do anything visually or physically, he was still able to have a presence or importance in the game because aside from being the key to the story, there is less characters who dominate the spotlight.

As I said earlier, because of the number and handling of the cast is different, the handling of Chip feels different. You say his role was balanced or shared, but his presence not as Light Gaia but Chip is diluted with all the other characters who have both physically and nonphysically strong roles. The game made it feel Chip had to travel with Sonic, Sonic taking him under his wing while he do his usual world saving like he does with other game-exclusive characters, while the comic had Knuckles drop him off to FF because they already know he's Light Gaia who will fix everything and they'll need him. It's like they only need his power and doesn't really care about him as a person. Also, Chip was told he was Light Gaia who had the role of fixing the situation created by Dark Gaia, and if Tikal told the same information she told Knuckles then he would know he lacks the power to do so currently. He accept this role and said he will somehow try to save everyone when the time comes. He now has the knowledge and acceptance as Light Gaia, his memory doesn't have much impact on his identity anymore and only as a "trigger" to activate his power.

I'd argue that it's strengthened Chip, because he's a far more active character here than he was in the games.

That belief of "role=fighting" shoots itself in the foot among many other things considering that there is more than just fighting that's important here, and you'd think that if that was a point of criticism then that would put things more in favor of Chip here. And of course the handling of Chip feels different - it's been said time and time and time again that despite the comics being more game-centric that they have alternate rules, and it was practically expected by many from the onset when we knew this would be an Unleashed adaptation. That should have been further obvious by the simple fact that we still had the SatAM cast and comic exclusive characters when things were rebooted. And anyone who was expecting their vision of things to be done, regardless of what they wanted out of it and if they got it (with the SGW trashing the old world, even those who like this adaptation aren't above this), were practically setting themselves up for disappointment from the get go considering the lead writer is known for and expected to pull twists and turns with the original material that it's like betting on the lottery over what to expect.

Now sure the comics don't go about the "discover the identity" path and instead goes for a "stop the cataclysm," but they're doing the exact same thing of Chip having to travel with the FF and the FF taking him under their wing while they do the usual world saving, generally speaking. Chip just isn't bonding to a single character this time around, and I feel that makes much more sense than bonding with one person if Chip is suppose to help save the world - when he establishes bonds with the world, he has a greater incentive to protect that world as he's doing so for more than just one person just like a powerful, benevolent god that he is. And considering how little he actually did in Unleashed (which make's it's middle that much glaring of a gap), there's not much diluted here. Setpieces were definitely rearranged, but if that counts as "diluting" things then I'm not sure what to say given how many times the comics have done this in the past more than anyone can count (for better or worse).

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I dunno how to compare. It's like having a Secret Ring adaption where all the FF help him along as storybook characters and Shahra's (maybe Ali Baba and Sinbad's too) role being "shared" with them. Also her identity and all that revealed in the beginning. she wouldn't have the same impact as in the game if she had less roles/ her roles "shared" to other characters. I'm not saying each exact detail should be in the comic, I'm good with good original adaptions,  but...I dunno...its like they're doing an adaption but only partially, making it original but only partially, in a bad balance, making me think "can they just be more close to the game or be more original on it?!" Like Chip's introduction through Knuckles; since he's the one who meet him, agree to help him, and his group (Charmy, technically) name him, it would make sense if they did unleashed or at least Chip's friendship thing but with Knuckles. Looking back it felt similar to the Sonic-and-Chip bond in the game. But then he just hands Chip to the FF, taking away the interesting interactions he did with Knuckles and reduced to the background. Makes me think WHAT WAS THEIR INTERACTION FOR????(I thought of an example where you're thrown in the air and you feel you're moving, but it's not the pleasant experience of floating, you have no control over it, it feels like both falling up and falling down, and you just want physics to make a decision to keep moving you to the direction thrown or drop you to the floor.)

You're forgetting that Knuckles' himself is also tagging along with the FF - Knuckles isn't handing Chip to them, they're both joining a bigger group. Their interaction was for the both of them helping out with the crisises at hand in anyway they could, because everything has been under seige from several different threats as opposed to just Dark Gaia and Eggman, so they need everyone's help to deal with it. And this made it easier to transfer Chip's bond to the other characters, most predominantly Sonic.

And your comparison depends entirely on how it's done, because sharing roles with others does not equate to having less of one. That has more to do with the magnitude of said role being presented - they could just as easily have a so-called Secret Ring adaptation without the FF and take away Shahra's role while keeping many other things closer to the game just as much as they can do it with the FF and give Shahra more than what the game's themselves provided.You're seeing the forest for the trees here - what makes sense is how they tell the story with the material from the games, not if they did more like Unleashed or Chip's friendship thing with Knuckles.

That's not saying they can turn Sonic red and tell the same story (nevermind that they're not telling the exact same story anyway), or that they can make Sonic a realistic looking hedgehog and it'll be the same (and I'm saying to avoid any mincing of words in the event someone argues with such a strawman). But it is saying that there will be differences, as we already have here - the stakes are much higher than the games, the goal even more challenging, the world much bigger, and the conflict much more dynamic given all the parties involved. So given all this and the above, what would you have expected, really? Because as someone who likes this setting even more than the games themselves, I can't say I've expected everything I got or wanted.

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It's more of a personal complaint, really. When the newest preview came out, I felt better because Chip had more focus than when they were with Lupe and any other place where he's just drawn small in each panel hiding or saying "watch out!" or "that was cool!" . There was only Tails and Chip having a conversation only these two can do, well sort of, despite the content sounding somewhat unnecessary. And yes I agree with your opinion that the 2nd Crossover was very unnecessary. I wonder if it had an impact on how long the adaption will be? Because if it does, that sucks.

Eh, fair enough. I'm not denying that Chip has had minor roles in some scenes, because he most certainly has. But then that can be said for a lot of characters, and needless to say the Unleashed has done that itself with Amy and Tails given that they could have done more instead of be around. A lot of what the comic have done are something I have criticized in Unleashed: the whole world is shattered and the only other character we see are Tails and Amy, and meanwhile everyone in the world seems to have barely felt any effect from the world breaking apart as they act like everything is still okay.

Plus, I have my own complaints. I really don't like the Black Arms being around as aliens, much less Eclipse. Actually preferred the old setting when they kept that shit as far away from Shadow's backstory as possible prior to the reboot.

As for the 2nd Crossover's impact on the adaptation, I'm not sure. But given how things feel rushed when we used to go on a four-issue arc (things seem to be dealt with in two issues now), I'd say it's had a big impact on its pacing at least, which has been a gripe I've had over Worlds Unite.

[Dr. Detective]

23 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Eh, fair enough. I'm not denying that Chip has had minor roles in some scenes, because he most certainly has. But then that can be said for a lot of characters, and needless to say the Unleashed has done that itself with Amy and Tails given that they could have done more instead of be around. A lot of what the comic have done are something I have criticized in Unleashed: the whole world is shattered and the only other character we see are Tails and Amy, and meanwhile everyone in the world seems to have barely felt any effect from the world breaking apart as they act like everything is still okay.

That the fallout from the state of the Sonic series around that time at work. It was back when the whole hatred tirade against any character that wasn't Sonic was in full swing, coming off the heels of a problem that wasn't any of their faults. It's still affecting us nowadays actually but I feel it may have been a tad worse back then since it was definitely more a matter that required the world's attention similar to the Black Arms invasion. 

There are certain things I like in this Unleashed adaptation far more then the one from the games and vice-versa there are somethings I prefer about the way the game handled it. In regards to Chip, at the moment, I'm not getting much of an impression out of him from the comics so far in comparison to how he was showcased in the game but I'm not sure if that's due to lack of focus in comparison to everything else that's happening or if I'm just working off the complete package Unleashed provided me and pitting it against Comic Chip in a way that isn't completely fair due to the adaptation not being finished. Time will tell.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

On 4/12/2016 at 1:15 PM, Dr. Chaotix said:

That the fallout from the state of the Sonic series around that time at work. It was back when the whole hatred tirade against any character that wasn't Sonic was in full swing, coming off the heels of a problem that wasn't any of their faults. It's still affecting us nowadays actually but I feel it may have been a tad worse back then since it was definitely more a matter that required the world's attention similar to the Black Arms invasion.

I know what it was that led to a smaller cast. That's common knowledge considering Unleashed came right off the back of Sonic 06.

At the same time, that just shows how schizophrenic the mindset behind it was. The whole tirade against any character not Sonic was primarily for gameplay reasons, so we could have still had them around as NPCs at the very least. They did so for Tails and Amy, and this was the perfect chance to do just that for others as we explored the world.

At the same time, it at least showed it wasn't the characters to blame, so there was something in value of it. Tho that could have been said anyway if they were just NPCs. Then again, considering they did that with Generations and critics complained while they mostly stood around doing nothing, who knows?

[Dr. Detective]

On 4/13/2016 at 6:43 PM, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

I know what it was that led to a smaller cast. That's common knowledge considering Unleashed came right off the back of Sonic 06.

At the same time, that just shows how schizophrenic the mindset behind it was. The whole tirade against any character not Sonic was primarily for gameplay reasons, so we could have still had them around as NPCs at the very least. They did so for Tails and Amy, and this was the perfect chance to do just that for others as we explored the world.

At the same time, it at least showed it wasn't the characters to blame, so there was something in value of it. Tho that could have been said anyway if they were just NPCs. Then again, considering they did that with Generations and critics complained while they mostly stood around doing nothing, who knows?

Having them around as NPCs wouldn't have done a thing. The number of cracks IGN took against Sonic's friends in their review of Generations (to the point where they felt the need to point out that the missions weren't all that good and most of them starred his stupid friends which has nothing to do with the each other) stands as a reasonable example of that. They hate the friends because it's the thing to do. 

Looking back on Unleashed we were lucky Amy even got to be there. Of course, they took her away when Colors came out so whatever.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That's...what I just pointed that out tho.

If anything, that should have been something to just ignore given that Unleashed sold rather well altogether despite critics bashing anything that wasn't the daytime stages.

[Your Vest Friend]

Watching a Crash 2 playthrough, but this is also on a non-Sonic game franchise so it's okay.

Episode 15;

This episode's discussion is all about the Legend of Zelda (marking the 30th anniversary). They talk first experiences, specific LoZ games, fields, dungeons, birds, warriors within Hyrule, and the Links that bind them.

But since I've played nothing of that franchise, let's avoid making things awkward and get through the Q&A!

-Favourite and least favourite issue before his tenure - Doesn't answer it, as of the recording it's a very loaded question, certain individuals could construe his answers meaning the company policy of Archie, hates that because he should be able to answer the question without bias, there are others who wouldn't take him at his word for that, others who would blow it out of proportion, Kyle also declines, Ian would usually tell him to answer but stuff he's seen and heard indicates that not answering (even Kyle) would be safest

-Resolving Sonic 4 and Sonic Chronicles in the Archie comic - Sonic 4 Episode 3 maybe, privy to very minor information on what might have been (not going to talk about it in-depth), could use it as foundation for a finale for Sonic 4, whether SEGA would want him to recognise it he doesn't know, would love to go there but not a high priority right now, likes the ending of Sonic 4 Episode 2, but because it falls vaguely on timeline somewhere before Adventure it's likely already happened, already lots of story he wants to go back to and cover, Sonic Chronicles mired in technicalities that harkens back to the first question asked, right now not even on the table to consider, not saying never because things could change (would have to radically change in very specific ways), probably not for immediate or long-term future.

-Movie looking forward to - Civil War, still anxious about how it'll come together with so much stuff, encouraged that the preview scenes show the debate and it sounds intelligent and mature, early reviews are glowing, loves Winter Soldier and wants it on par, Kyle - Civil War, X-Men: Apocalypse (Ian is iffy on the voice of Apocalypse), Independence Day: Resurgence, new Ghostbusters film, Suicide Squad, Rogue One.

-Video game series hardest/least attractive to adapt into comic form - Kyle brings up Bayonetta, a lot of Bayo's appeal is music and action, you'd need the right team to capture the feel, does lend itself to comic book telling in story presentation, Mario difficult because there is no overarching storyline, basic stories per game (especially RPGs), not a whole lot of story limitations (eg gold everyone one minute, Bowser, Jr and Koopalings run rampant multiple times, geographical locations undefined [and change, going by various Mushroom Kingdoms], definition of world vague, hierarchy and social structure undefined, Mario very loose and fanciful compared to other stories, not how he approached Sonic or Mega Man, would have to be different approach, Kirby almost falls into same trap but has memorable final bosses you can build to, Metroid difficult in that you'd need right artist on the team to capture scope and sense of loneliness, would love to get into Samus' character as she's not really 'human', compare her to rest of galaxy, how she interacts with it, convey sense of exploration and dread without being boring, Kyle would want to see Metroid most out of those, Ian would love a chance to fix Other M. 

-Was speed of Sonic Man gained through roboticisation - Perk of being a Roboticised Master, yes. 

-Names of Orderix (if he can answer) - Will be covering that when he gets to it in Lost Hedgehog Tales.

[Dr. Detective]

On 4/15/2016 at 4:40 AM, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

That's...what I just pointed that out tho.

Not used to people agreeing with you or something?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

8 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

Not used to people agreeing with you or something?

Not always, but I just felt it was rather redundant than anything.