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Big Red Button finally break their silence


Badnik Mechanic
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Figured this was strong enough to justify it's own topic, but if not feel free to merge.

Big Red Button have finally broken their silence regarding Rise of Lyric and their future/past projects.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2016/2/9/10939924/big-red-button-sonic-boom-rise-of-lyric

On the mobile so can't post too many details. But they talk about the design process, how  Rafei was loosing sleep a year before release, how he studio went into 'survival mode' following the games release and there's a bunch of concept images from ROL and another cancelled game which looks a lot like it.

 

Edit: they talk about why there was the big red staff exodus, 

Edit 2: They were surprised that the game got such a negative reception... Holy shit!

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38 minutes ago, Detective Hogfather said:

They were surprised that the game got such a negative reception... Holy shit!

Considering this, it's absolutely no surprise to me at all personally that RoL turned out the way it did.

I mean if you're designing and programming shit like that and honestly don't believe that it'll get slammed by critics and players alike, you have absolutely no business working on a game. Because it's clear as crystal here that BRB had no standards of quality if they thought RoL was acceptable to the point of being surprised by it's negative reception.

Quote

"First and foremost, we wanted to make sure it was a strong platformer, that we were true to Sonic’s sense of speed,"

L O-Fucking L.

Practically nothing about Boom is true to Sonic's sense of speed. And I question that it was a "first and foremost" concept as a result.

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Reading through the parts about ROL. Yeah I don't think Rafei is being completely honest. 

It reads like ROL turned out the way it did because BRB didn't known what to do with it/they were experimenting too much, well.. hang on, as the programmers/developer, you should be doing what the client (Sega) wants, now what you want it to turn into, would love to get some clarification on that. 

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6 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

For some reason, I find the whole "suprised people would think the game sucks" to be absolute bullshit. It wasn't made like a Sonic game, they should have expected it to have a horrible reception. Hell they should have KNOWN.

As they say. Denial is the first step to acceptance.

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So they made a bad game and they're saying they missed all those horrible bugs and design flaws in all that time leading up to the release? Yeah, that sounds like the words of a competent developer if you ask me.

People rant on about how Lost World doesn't play like a Sonic game, but god damn Rise of Lyric is a whole new level. Everything I've seen of that game is something I wouldn't expect from Sonic, but from a PS2 platformer you'd see on shelves for a discount price these days. If BRB had the slightest idea about Sonic games it's that making a game that ultimately got rated lower than 06 definitely isn't the best way to go about doing things.

They knew they made a turd and that line about not thinking Rise of Lyric would get hit so hardly with all those gleaming flaws makes things even more frustrating.

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30 minutes ago, Celestia said:

To be honest, I don't think we'll be getting the...well, honest story about what exactly happened with Rise of Lyric anytime soon. Or ever, as the case may be.

Also, isn't some of this essentially what they've been saying since ~mid-2015 or so, anyway? Like, the stuff about being surprised by the game's reception, essentially blaming fans by insinuating that we're just unreasonable and that's why we were unhappy with a bad game, etc. I dunno, I just feel like we've heard that stuff before...

I suspect I'll end up doing a spin on this.

Bob was never going to come out and say 'hey here's the absolute truth of the mater' or 'we utterly suck' as some people assume and want them to say.

The answer he's given is probably as good as we're going to ever get, but with what he has said seems to match up with a number of things we already knew, only in some cases the reasons for said things are questionable here and there.

I don't believe for one second that they were completely shocked at the negative reaction... christ the very first lets play of the game found a near game breaking bug for goodness sake.

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Frankly, the article just makes me feel all the more depressed, taking me all the way back two years ago to a time when I thought this game was going to be something different, but something that had promise as well.  Maybe someday Bob's gonna come clean and admit they just thought they could wing it in the end.  I understand why he won't say what others would want him to say.  After all, as far as I know, BRB is still in business, why would you slag off your first game at a point where your company hasn't gone under?

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28 minutes ago, Ming Ming Kanon said:

But yeah, if you drew something for 3 long months and it turns out to look crap to others, them saying "U SUCK AT DRAWING!" you won't just sit there and agree that the effort you put in sucks. I'm sure Bob knows he could have done better and learn secretly from his mistakes. Upwards and onwards.

That's not exactly saying the effort he put into his drawing sucks. That's more akin to saying that his talent/skill at drawing sucks. There's a difference.

Based on what I've read, I won't dispute that Rafei and his team put in a lot of effort to try and make RoL a good game and/or did all they could to save the final product throughout its turbulent production. At the same time I would say that their work on Rise of Lyric isn't very good and --in the context of a making a Sonic spinoff, let alone a Sonic game-- is even misguided in its direction at times.

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It's honestly a shame BRB's first shipped game had to turn out like this, after so many years of trying to release something-- anything. When I look at RoL's concept art, I see a game that had potential, a game that could have been better than how it is now-- especially with the kind of people working on it. I was optimistic it would be good, and in the end, I was wrong.

I mean, yeah, all of the statements made in this article may not exactly be true, but I really feel sorry for everyone there. I hope the company can somehow find a way to make a comeback from this disaster.

It's a slim chance, but I still hope.

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When I look at the state of Rise Of Lyric I just think to myself that it was rushed out the door so SEGA can get out of the nintendo contract quality be damned. I do feel bad for the people involved with this game like Bob and Frost since ultimately they wanted to make a good game but due to executive meddling they just couldn't do it. While it does suck it still doesn't excuse the fact that boom was a bad game and the excuses like "not sure how to please the fans" and "we were under the impression that people didn't want to go fast in a sonic game" doesn't help matters granted I know that they are under NDA but still they could of come up with better excuses.

And as I've stated multiple times before the fact that people defend it with the excuse "it's for kids" and "it's a licensed game" really grinds my gears. Realistically Boom could of been a really good game not a sonic game just a good game in general spinoff or not. The ideas were there it's just that they need more time to finish it, make sonic and co go fast around the levels, expand the combat, change the level design a bit and improve on the story and you could of gotten a winner here. You'd think that they would learn from Sonic 06 never to rush a game out spinoff or not but nope. Hopefully BRB will learn from this and might end up like the company that made bubsy 3D, made a really crap game then went on to make good games like the uncharted game on the vita since the people behind BRB did work on games like Crash and Jak wishful thinking. I'm also bitter that I spent $60 and had to record it so that's a bigger factor to why I hate it more than I did.

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I don't have time to read the article right now but do they mention that the engine they were working on wasn't compatible with the Wii U's architecture? Because, among other things of course, I think that was a really big reason why the final game was well... bad. Because the Wii U literally could not run it in the way it was meant to. 

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A part of me wonders if they're trying to keep face somewhat, as it can be deleterious to display a lack of faith in your work, and there could be NDA issues preventing people from being honest about it. Buuut this does seem rather silly, there comes a point where everyone can see there's a problem but they're still acting surprised.

Though to be fair I'd also assume there's been some rather personal attacks on them, which no-one should have to expect.

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This part strikes me as odd:

 

Quote

explaining that the project became overscoped as Big Red Button continued to prototype and change mechanics "significantly" during playtesting.

 

There's not much to the gameplay as-is; how can there even be "significant" changes if it's just a J&D clone at heart?

Paired with this a comment from one of the art directors in the comments section:

 

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As for the "traditional platformer mechanics, things changed over the course of 2-3 years. What was working at one point ended up being changed to fit other parts of the story. I think the original core gameplay that was fun got lost in the middle of development.

 

??? Only segregation of gameplay there is is the varying speeds for normal stages and speed sections, from what I can recall?

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1 hour ago, jordy-pordy said:

I don't have time to read the article right now but do they mention that the engine they were working on wasn't compatible with the Wii U's architecture? Because, among other things of course, I think that was a really big reason why the final game was well... bad. Because the Wii U literally could not run it in the way it was meant to. 

The CryEngine is completely compatible with the Wii U's architecture. The Wii U uses similar architecture to the 360 and PS3. The MAIN issue was getting the dual screen setup to work with CryEngine. I don't even know why they wanted to do that in the first place. They should've just kept the game running on the TV Screen or Gamepad, have no co-op, and unless they actually did, have Crytek help them with getting it to work as only Crytek at that time had a game (Crysis 3) working on the Wii U.

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4 minutes ago, PSI Wind said:

The CryEngine is completely compatible with the Wii U's architecture. The Wii U uses similar architecture to the 360 and PS3. The MAIN issue was getting the dual screen setup to work with CryEngine. I don't even know why they wanted to do that in the first place. They should've just kept the game running on the TV Screen or Gamepad, have no co-op, and unless they actually did, have Crytek help them with getting it to work as only Crytek at that time had a game (Crysis 3) working on the Wii U.

Oh it is? I thought I had read it wasn't compatible... Now I feel dumb oops.

sweat.gif

Also, Crysis 3 was on Wii U?? Or was it just a proof of concept type of thing? 

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1 hour ago, jordy-pordy said:

Oh it is? I thought I had read it wasn't compatible... Now I feel dumb oops.

sweat.gif

Also, Crysis 3 was on Wii U?? Or was it just a proof of concept type of thing? 

Crytek had a version of Crysis 3 fully running on Wii U. It could've easily been released but EA has a say in the platforms it releases on.

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They didn't think the game would get such negative reception? What? Have they never heard of Sonic fans? Most of those guys can't handle change.....that and they did a medicrapper job as a Sonic game, but as a eat-em up game.....they didn't do anything impressive....I mean, SEGA/Sonic Team did a WAAAAAYYYY better beat-em up with the werehog. At least I could enjoy that.

 

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