Pokemon Sun/Moon PLUS ULTRA (Alola Region Games)

[Sonictrainer]

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/sun_moon/pokemon/160826_02.html

Growlithe and Arcanine have been added to the Official Japanese Site.

[Salamander]

It's almost, but not quite, proof of anything...  The moment Growlithe and Arcanine are formally revealed, with or without Alolan forms, is the moment that many a rumour will be proven or disproven.  Same with Abra, actually.

[Tori Himemiya]

Can I be honest with you guys? Since its part of the leaks I'll put it in spoilers.

Spoiler

I'm actually not too fond of the idea of a Water Arcanine or a Fighting Alakazam. It just seems like a fan made idea to make them the opposite typing and call it a day. It would also seem odd because so far most of Alola's Pokemon all have exotic typing and having those Pokemon as pure types doesn't make much sense to me honestly. Again it just seems to fan ideas to me.

 

[Vec]

49 minutes ago, Crow the BOOLET said:

Can I be honest with you guys? Since its part of the leaks I'll put it in spoilers.

  Hide contents

I'm actually not too fond of the idea of a Water Arcanine or a Fighting Alakazam. It just seems like a fan made idea to make them the opposite typing and call it a day. It would also seem odd because so far most of Alola's Pokemon all have exotic typing and having those Pokemon as pure types doesn't make much sense to me honestly. Again it just seems to fan ideas to me.

 

Well...

 

Spoiler

The Ice Vulpix/Ninetails weren't fanmade after all...so the possibility is still there

 

[Tori Himemiya]

Just now, Ice Vec said:

Well...

 

  Hide contents

The Ice Vulpix/Ninetails weren't fanmade after all...so the possibility is still there

 

Spoiler

I think that's the exception cause its at least Ice/Fairy. I mean yeah its not anything new among fans but GF made it unique.

 

[Salamander]

2 hours ago, Crow the BOOLET said:

Can I be honest with you guys? Since its part of the leaks I'll put it in spoilers.

  Hide contents

I'm actually not too fond of the idea of a Water Arcanine or a Fighting Alakazam. It just seems like a fan made idea to make them the opposite typing and call it a day. It would also seem odd because so far most of Alola's Pokemon all have exotic typing and having those Pokemon as pure types doesn't make much sense to me honestly. Again it just seems to fan ideas to me.

 

I also really, strongly dislike this particular rumour, yes.

Spoiler

I feel like Water Arcanine and Fighting Alakazam are based on just looking at Alolan Sandslash and Ninetails and saying "right, flip it to completely the opposite typing, got it" and ignoring the actual concept behind the new design.  I'm barely sold on Ice-type Sandslash and Ninetails as it is, but without an insanely good design and concept, Water Arcanine and Fighting Alakazam would just feel like change for the sake of change regardless of logic.

To expand a bit on this outside of spoiler territory, most of the Alolan forms have really good concepts behind them.  Alolan Exeggutor feels like an idea they'd had rattling around forever for a new Exeggutor form that finally found its niche; it could have inspired the whole concept of Alolan forms on its own.  Raichu having a new use for its tail and being a surfing Pikachu reference is a work of genius.  The inspiration is a little weaker with the Sandshrew and Vulpix lines, but a more mysterious and fey form of Ninetails makes a great deal of sense - and just look at Alolan Sandshrew's little parka, it's so cute.  You can argue that Meowth being Dark-type and even Sandslash having the Steel-type would've been a legit Gen II retcon when they introduced those types, too.  The fanart and fan concepts generally seem to understand that Alolan forms are really design-centric and not just slapping a new type on a Pokemon for the sake of it, it's just certain rumoured ideas from way early on that don't seem to get this - but I'll be the first one to hold up my hands and say I didn't give GameFreak enough credit if they turn out to be real and are awesome.

As a general leak-cynic, though, I have to point out that the biggest strike against the majority of text leaks is that, as time's gone by, nothing they've predicted has been confirmed - or, in other words, there's been a lot announced which they rather suspiciously chose not to mention.  If I was on a localisation team and chose to commit professional suicide by leaking classified material, Alolan Raichu would've been right at the top of my list - but nobody saw it coming.

[KoDaiko]

Some things I noticed is that on the page (it says "pokedex" on the menu btw) :

• the pokemons with Alola forms don't have the original versions in the list. If you click them they show you the difference, but it's not actually included in the list. 

The list is what pokemon live/appear in the region/game. Also in the comparison the ones w/ Alola forms are labeled "the [pokemon] you find in Alola". Unless the pokemons started to adapt to their climate fairly recently it makes sense there is only one version of them in the region. Meowths were brought and domesticated by the royalty generations ago, and hey breeding mechanics so it'd be odd to see a normal one. Marowak adapted to survive, so normal ones die out. Eggecutor is climate-unique, so normal Eggecutors aren't "normal" there. I think it's either "Alola-fit new form" or "no-need-to-fit original form", not both.

• The Alola pokemons (both alola form and new alola pokemons) have some long unique descriptions about them, while normal pokemons have two descriptions labeled "Sun" and "Moon".

I'm completely sure the descriptions for the normal old pokemons are the pokedex text in the game. The alola form pokemons would have descriptions talking about the how and why of their new form in the game pokedex like it does on the page. Unless they're going to change the description in the game, the descriptions on the site is what they will have in the game. And they have nothing suggesting a new form.

So since normal Growlithe and Arcanine is on the list in the old normal form, they will probably not get Alola forms.

But I may be wrong. I only saw the pokedex for the first time a few days ago.

[Tori Himemiya]

If my Google translate is correct then it mentions Arcanine is a mythical legend from the East and it does mention being fiery.

Spoiler

Leak disproven then?

 

[KoDaiko]

25 minutes ago, Crow the BOOLET said:

If my Google translate is correct then it mentions Arcanine is a mythical legend from the East and it does mention being fiery.

  Reveal hidden contents

Leak disproven then?

 

The sun version is basically "seen in eastern legends, strong beautiful Pokemon full of dignity"  and moon is "runs across the land using fire burning in their body". Just normal Pokedex entries, almost identical to ones in past games. Before anyone asks the other normal pokemon have normal entries, though some do talk about how they live in Alola (like Moon Pinsir's entry talking about Vikavolt as their rival)

Unless someone saw a normal pokemon on the list switched out to an alola version, I'd say see the addition of the normal Arcanine as no alola form.

But I wonder: how will the pokedex work now? The alola forms have different characteristics. Will they be in the same pokemon entry but separate descriptions, or will they all have the same description and thrown in the "forms" tab?

[Salamander]

It seems hard to imagine that they could pair up radically different Alola forms with their flavour text from past games, and they've got all this fluff on the website waiting to be put to use so I would imagine that either there'll be alternative text between Alolan and other forms, or it'll be the classic forms which won't get individual Pokedex text.

...With that said, I was looking up the standard Pokedex text of some of the Pokemon that have Alola forms now, and spotted something interesting in Vulpix's:

Quote

(Pokemon X) When it is born, it has just one snow-white tail. The tail splits from its tip as it grows older.

 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Spoiler

 

The Fighting Alakazam line seems particularly silly to me because Psychic-ness defines so much of their character. I mean seriously, what are you going to do with the Alakazam's attributes to make it Fighting-type? In contrast, being Fire-types doesn't really define Vulpix and Ninetales completely and Sandshrew and Sandslash have other attributes you can work with, such as their defensive qualities, claws, Sandslash's spikes, etc. It simultaneously seems too random and too uncreative. Maybe you could turn the spoons into nunchucks?! That's about all I can think of xD

Water Arcanine could've been OK and even a bit cool but I really don't mind it not existing either.

 

 

[Salamander]

18 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

  Hide contents

 

The Fighting Alakazam line seems particularly silly to me because Psychic-ness defines so much of their character. I mean seriously, what are you going to do with the Alakazam's attributes to make it Fighting-type? In contrast, being Fire-types doesn't really define Vulpix and Ninetales completely and Sandshrew and Sandslash have other attributes you can work with, such as their defensive qualities, claws, Sandslash's spikes, etc. It simultaneously seems too random and too uncreative. Maybe you could turn the spoons into nunchucks?! That's about all I can think of xD

Water Arcanine could've been OK and even a bit cool but I really don't mind it not existing either.

 

 

 

Spoiler

The only way I could see Fighting-type Alakazam is if it was actually Psychic/Fighting, a kind of zen master monk sort of thing.  But... that already exists, and it's called Medicham; Alakazam doesn't need it, though it might've been interesting if Medicham wasn't already around.  But it is, and that's that.  The nunchuk thing I can see and kind of resembles what they did with Marowak's bone, though.

I kind of like the (blatant fan design) above for Water Arcanine where its fur takes on a wave-like visual appearance, but that's about all the concept has going for it, little waves on its paws; it's not enough.  Honestly, silly type-flipping of Fire to Water strikes me as a better fit for Ponyta and Rapidash, actually - give 'em fountains on their heads, basically make them into a hippocampus, finally have a version of the original horse Pokemon which it would actually be non-lethal to ride.  I almost wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened, now that I think about it.

 

[Tori Himemiya]

Dark type Alola Rattata confirmed and Alola Raichu and Snorlax has their own unique Z-Moves.

Dark type Rattata was mentioned in the leaks. Whether it was a real leak or a shot in a dark (no pun intended) is something we will never know. Its something to note.

[Salamander]

So we have Dark/Normal Alolan Rattata on the way!  ...Dark-type Rattata was one of the Pokemon predicted in the leak we've been discussing above, so that's worrying - but it would be a very easy guess to make, so it might not mean anything.

The Direct also stated that certain Pokemon-exclusive Z-Crystals will exist in the game that unlock moves specific to that Pokemon; ones for Snorlax and Alolan Raichu were shown.  Personal speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is how they work in Ash Greninja.

Edit: Okay, maybe this post is just a reiteration of the above so far... but how about this: Apparently the next Sun/Moon update video will be on September 6th, this coming Tuesday; Serebii gives times of 22:00 JST, 14:00 BST, 15:00 CEST, 09:00 EDT, 06:00 PDT, 23:00 AEST (so an hour earlier than this Direct was).

[Your Vest Friend]

That Rattata's Raticate evo will totally be something like a mafia don, even if Murkrow and Honchkrow already exist. That would make an absolute parallel with Yungoos. 

 

[-Robin-]

More Sun and Moon news will be revealed on the 6th. 

 

[Tori Himemiya]

4 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

That Rattata's Raticate evo will totally be something like a mafia don, even if Murkrow and Honchkrow already exist. That would make an absolute parallel with Yungoos. 

 

Alola Raticate leaked!

But seriously though it would be actually pretty cool. I don't see why we can't have two dons.

[Celestia]

Which leaks specifically mentioned a dark-type Rattata/Raticate? Just curious to see what other rumours came along with that one, to keep in mind for future reveals and stuff.

[Salamander]

11 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Which leaks specifically mentioned a dark-type Rattata/Raticate? Just curious to see what other rumours came along with that one, to keep in mind for future reveals and stuff.

This one, though they don't give a source and I don't have time to search for one now.  This page does, though, also recap the original "Chinese rumour," which in retrospect was probably true (save for the "creating a league" business, which sounds like a misunderstanding); indeed, I remember the original source for the Chinese rumour also mentioned something which sounded an awful lot like the totem Pokemon for the Island Trials.

[Celestia]

I really hope the "only way to get Alolan forms is by trading in from previous games" thing isn't true. Not just for the obvious reason of that being an annoying requirement, but it also literally does not make sense. If these Pokemon take new forms due to adapting to this new environment, you'd think you'd find them like that in the wild. Unless these Pokemon can't be found in the wild in these games, but all the descriptions we've got explaining why the new forms are happening make it sound like they can be found in Alola, so...??

Of course, it's possible that bit was a misinterpretation on the leaker's part. Maybe trading in Pokemon who have these new forms makes them transform (and maybe some kind of other bonus, giving the player incentive to do that and not just find the Pokemon in Sun & Moon), but it's not the only way to get them?

[Marcello]

It's the other way around. For example, a Rattata I catch in Sun/Moon is the Alolan version, but if I trade one from any other game it's the normal version. It's badly phrased, but that's what they're saying.

[Celestia]

If that's what they meant, "badly phrased" is putting it mildly. XP

[Vec]

Then...if I transfer a regular Sandslash to Sun/Moon and breed it, will the son be regular or Alola form? 

[Marcello]

Whichever the mom is. Or not Ditto.

[Salamander]

As I understand it, Alolan Pokemon are essentially, genetically, a different species to their foreign cousins, even the ones which don't even have a new form like Pikachu.  In short, if you were to trade an Alolan Pikachu to a hypothetical same- or next-gen game, it would still evolve into Alolan Raichu.

While I'm here, here's a chatlog (Smogon source page) of the only translation I've seen of the "Chinese leak" (supposedly from a member of the Chinese localisation team); note that they don't give a source URL for the original Chinese text, though apparently Smogon's mods reviewed it and I've seen it around.

Spoiler

Quote

[1:52 PM] nerd: any chance you can tell me what the red part says first
[1:52 PM] nerd: then the others
[1:52 PM] nerd: or at least try
[1:53 PM] Level 51: the red part is 'there's a fire + poison pokemon'
[1:53 PM] Level 51: assuming it refers to salandit or w/e
[1:54 PM] Level 51: ok here lemme try to translate that whole paragraph it seems interesting
[1:54 PM] Level 51: so the red part is there's a new fire + poison mon
[1:54 PM] Level 51: then 'the stone dog will evolve into a werewolf' (assuming that's rockruff there)
[1:55 PM] Level 51: there's a new mushroom pokemon
[1:55 PM] Level 51: snowman pokemon
[1:55 PM] nerd: could that be sea cucumber
[1:55 PM] nerd: or is it definitely mushroom
[1:55 PM] Level 51: it's mushroom i'm pretty sure
[1:56 PM] Level 51: there's a... football monkey?
[1:56 PM] nerd: snowman...?
[1:56 PM] Level 51: there's a sea cucumber pokemon as well apparently
[1:56 PM] nerd: oh
[1:56 PM] nerd: when I was pm'd this they only listed sea cucumber, snowman, dolphin
[1:56 PM] Level 51: after that is dolphin
[1:57 PM] Level 51: it says something after that but my chinese isnt good enough to read that. don't think it refers to a new pokemon though
[1:58 PM] nerd: anything on that first screenshot?
[1:59 PM] Level 51: it says that gym leaders are replaced with "team leaders"
[2:00 PM] Level 51: and the elite four is replaced by an "island king" of each island
[2:00 PM] nerd: ok this is more detailed than what I was sent in english
[2:00 PM] Level 51: wait no
[2:00 PM] Level 51: hm.
[2:00 PM] Level 51: hang on let me backtrack a little
[2:00 PM] Level 51: my chinese is rusty
[2:01 PM] Level 51: OK so it says "earlier we reported that there are no gym leaders. this is because one episode in the plot involves building a new alliance (?)"
[2:02 PM] nerd: league?
[2:02 PM] Level 51: perhaps, yeah
[2:02 PM] Level 51: i think it's league, yeah.
[2:02 PM] Level 51: so building a new league
[2:03 PM] Level 51: it says "naturally, without a league there are no gyms. team leaders (?) replace gym leaders, while island kings replace the elite four."
[2:03 PM] nerd: "I missed the mushroom part...
Oh, the "football" monkey he's trying to say... I'd personally translate it as "rugby" monkey."
[2:03 PM] Level 51: "after the pokemon league is formed, the elite four is made"
[2:03 PM] Level 51: oh rugby monkey, yeah, probably
[2:03 PM] Level 51: well, american football. ya know
[2:04 PM] nerd: do you see anything about starters or uh
[2:04 PM] nerd: the diamonds
[2:04 PM] Level 51: diamonds?
[2:04 PM] nerd: > Collect logo diamonds like Mega stones, but a bit different. Logo diamonds cause Pokemon to transform shape, like Ash-Greninja.
[2:05 PM] nerd: is what I was sent
[2:05 PM] Level 51: yeah bottom of first screenshot
[2:05 PM] Level 51: uh
[2:06 PM] Level 51: "the new wristband (i'm assuming this is the mega bracelet or something) can make all abilities stronger." (i guess this just means mega evolution.)
[2:07 PM] Level 51: "you can load different diamonds into the wristband. there are many types of diamonds which you have to collect, like collecting mega stones."(edited)
[2:08 PM] Level 51: "some limited (?) diamonds can transform the shape of a pokemon. greninja was an example of this."
[2:09 PM] Level 51: "there's a new function which lets you ride almost any pokemon."(edited)
[2:10 PM] nerd: that wasnt mentioned either
[2:10 PM] nerd: the only thing theyve said that you havent were the starters
[2:11 PM] Level 51: "there are many unmarked locations on the map, which form districts (?); these districts contain very strong pokemon, known as overlords (?)."
[2:12 PM] Level 51: oh the part after the dolphin mon which i couldnt translate earlier was like
[2:14 PM] nerd: ?
[2:14 PM] Level 51: "the royal three are in the end distinguished as (arrow something), (breaking something hand), (siren something)
[2:14 PM] Level 51: cant find anything about starters
[2:14 PM] nerd: well thats what the starters was
[2:14 PM] nerd: archer, wrestler, siren
[2:15 PM] Level 51: oh
[2:15 PM] Level 51: could be that then
[2:15 PM] Level 51: must have mistranslated royal three
[2:17 PM] nerd: "the royal three " is what we call "starters" in Chinese. 

Yes... I didn't translate everything.
[2:17 PM] Level 51: ah ok
[2:17 PM] Level 51: so yeah recap
first paragraph: "sorry for no news. here is some news but it is unconfirmed."
second paragraph: a plot episode which involves forming a new league
third paragraph: initial replacements for gym leaders and elite four
fourth paragraph: the "wristband" and the "diamonds" to be inserted into it
fifth paragraph: riding mons
sixth paragraph: unmarked districts on the map which contain "overlords"
seventh paragraph: new pokemon
eighth/ninth paragraph: credit + that's all folks
[2:17 PM] Level 51: i think that's it
[2:20 PM] nerd: thanks
[2:21 PM] nerd: cresselia is gonna post about it but I told her to giv eyou some credit
[2:21 PM] Level 51: :D

 

My reading of the unconfirmed stuff:

Spoiler

The bit about districts and overlords I think translates to the totem Pokemon; the bit about almost any Pokemon being rideable is almost certainly some kind of misunderstanding but does anticipate rideable Pokemon being more numerous and more important; and the bit about building a new league as you can see is basically guesswork as a translation but gets the essential beats right about Trial Captains and Kahunas.  Predicted new Pokemon yet to be seen are a snowman, football monkey, and werewolf evolution for Rockruff.  Everything else has more or less been confirmed already.

All other leaks appear to be 4chan stuff, as far as I can tell; I did some digging for the source text but was not particularly convinced by said sources, which felt second-hand and garbled at best.  Needs more confirmation than a fairly predictable Rattata retyping.