Paper Mario Color Splash

[Chris Knopps]

4 hours ago, Sean said:

-looks at how many posts I spent in this topic ranting about my hatred for Sticker Star- ugh

I reeeaaaaaaally would like Color Splash to at least turn out pretty okay. Because I didn't go into SS expecting to hate it at all; I was even liking it at first until its flaws just got more and more apparent. If IS can fix all of the obtuse design problems that dampened my own experience, then I might be willing to give Sticker Star's formula another shot. If they fuck up again though then Paper Mario is dead to me.

Consider it already so. Keep in mind the reason story is gone is thanks to the Japanese telling Nintendo they didn't like it, with only 3% caring in polls. So on all fronts the game is a guaranteed blowjob. (It sucks)

[Solly]

There's a time and a place to be experimental. The Mario brand is really big and flexible, and offers a lot to different people.

Paper Mario needed to evolve past what Thousand Year Door was, sure, but most people who enjoy each Mario sub-series know what they want out of it. When you've done away with just about every core element the series started with, you're left with a completely different game where Mario happens to be made out of paper, and I am pretty sure that's not why people play these. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Solly said:

There's a time and a place to be experimental. The Mario brand is really big and flexible, and offers a lot to different people.

Paper Mario needed to evolve past what Thousand Year Door was, sure, but most people who enjoy each Mario sub-series know what they want out of it. When you've done away with just about every core element the series started with, you're left with a completely different game where Mario happens to be made out of paper, and I am pretty sure that's not why people play these. 

THIS, this so much which is why I kept saying the game is Paper Mario in name alone. All these actions are doing is making the series so dull it's pitiful, and we're at a point now where it's no longer an RPG, just another action-adventure spin-off apparently.

[Doctor MK]

Admittedly I think I'd be much less harsh on Sticker Star and Color Splash if they did label themselves as something different - at least with Super Paper Mario it was clear that it wasn't meant to be a "proper" Paper Mario game. As earlier stated in the topic, making this a little sub-series called Paper Mario Land or something would at least remove it from its immediate RPG predecessors.

Although, I suppose in a way they do make it known - Sticker Star and Color Splash are, in and of themselves, quite generic and "light" titles in comparison to something like The Thousand-Year Door which has much greater associations of a grand adventure and something big and epic. Not that a name should really make that much difference, but it's clearly meant to sound a bit less serious in tone.

I dunno. I'm not against Paper Mario doing new things and taking different approaches - surely if we'd had four or five games exactly like PM64 and TTYD we'd be getting a bit tired of that formula by now too (something that Mario & Luigi is, to an extent, beginning to suffer). It just needs to be done well.

Who knows? Maybe this will look a damn sight better the next time we see it, likely in a trailer at E3. Maybe by some miracle it'll even do a reverse Sticker Star and go from an experimental game to something more closely resembling the first two Paper Mario titles. Or not. I just want a fun game, which we won't be able to know for sure until the reviews start coming out.

Anyway, time to change the subject a bit methinks. Who wants to speculate how the story will pan out (aside from "it's Bowser!")? What possible reasons are there for the Shy Guys to be draining the colour from everyone and everything? Those poor, defenceless, generic looking Toads...

...lol I just realised the irony... they're sucking out the colour to make things look dull and soulless... but they already look dull and soulless amirite guyz?!

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Doctor MK said:

Admittedly I think I'd be much less harsh on Sticker Star and Color Splash if they did label themselves as something different - at least with Super Paper Mario it was clear that it wasn't meant to be a "proper" Paper Mario game. As earlier stated in the topic, making this a little sub-series called Paper Mario Land or something would at least remove it from its immediate RPG predecessors.

Although, I suppose in a way they do make it known - Sticker Star and Color Splash are, in and of themselves, quite generic and "light" titles in comparison to something like The Thousand-Year Door which has much greater associations of a grand adventure and something big and epic. Not that a name should really make that much difference, but it's clearly meant to sound a bit less serious in tone.

I dunno. I'm not against Paper Mario doing new things and taking different approaches - surely if we'd had four or five games exactly like PM64 and TTYD we'd be getting a bit tired of that formula by now too (something that Mario & Luigi is, to an extent, beginning to suffer). It just needs to be done well.

Who knows? Maybe this will look a damn sight better the next time we see it, likely in a trailer at E3. Maybe by some miracle it'll even do a reverse Sticker Star and go from an experimental game to something more closely resembling the first two Paper Mario titles. Or not. I just want a fun game, which we won't be able to know for sure until the reviews start coming out.

Anyway, time to change the subject a bit methinks. Who wants to speculate how the story will pan out (aside from "it's Bowser!")? What possible reasons are there for the Shy Guys to be draining the colour from everyone and everything? Those poor, defenceless, generic looking Toads...

...lol I just realised the irony... they're sucking out the colour to make things look dull and soulless... but they already look dull and soulless amirite guyz?!

Neither am I, but there are set mechanics and expectations that should be left as-is while they evolve the series, especially the way battles work at their core and the partners in the series being two main complaints of mine.

And it's as I stated, the Japanese didn't care about the story, only around 3% when Nintendo did polls, so there will be a minimal story, a very typical story.

[Doctor MK]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

Neither am I, but there are set mechanics and expectations that should be left as-is while they evolve the series, especially the way battles work at their core and the partners in the series being two main complaints of mine.

And it's as I stated, the Japanese didn't care about the story, only around 3% when Nintendo did polls, so there will be a minimal story, a very typical story.

Oh I agree, the main Paper Mario games shouldn't deviate too much - having the turn-based battle system is always a must, although as I stated earlier I'd probably be perfectly fine with stickers or cards if they at least left the most fundamental of attack moves as free-to-use. Or even if not, at least have the EXP and levelling up to give it a purpose. I think the partner characters are ever so slightly less important to include, so long as they're compensated for by a lively world/NPCs to engage with and giving Mario new ways of interacting with the environments (which, to its credit, I suppose Sticker Star did do with its "paperise" ability and Thing stickers).

As for the story... yeah, I'm not expecting much. But from the very little we've seen so far, I think we can at least assume "Mario and Peach go to new island, Shy Guys are draining colour" will be a bit more involved than "Bowser touches sticker, ruins everything". Even if only by the most minuscule of margins.

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, Doctor MK said:

Oh I agree, the main Paper Mario games shouldn't deviate too much - having the turn-based battle system is always a must, although as I stated earlier I'd probably be perfectly fine with stickers or cards if they at least left the most fundamental of attack moves as free-to-use. Or even if not, at least have the EXP and levelling up to give it a purpose. I think the partner characters are ever so slightly less important to include, so long as they're compensated for by a lively world/NPCs to engage with and giving Mario new ways of interacting with the environments (which, to its credit, I suppose Sticker Star did do with its "paperise" ability and Thing stickers).

As for the story... yeah, I'm not expecting much. But from the very little we've seen so far, I think we can at least assume "Mario and Peach go to new island, Shy Guys are draining colour" will be a bit more involved than "Bowser touches sticker, ruins everything". Even if only by the most minuscule of margins.

Something about it makes my eye twitch, seeing them sucking on characters and stuff... I probably just have too weird a mind I guess.

[JezMM]

Regarding the map discussion, part of Paper Mario's appeal for me was the sense of it being a large, connected world, the first ever depiction of the Mushroom Kingdom that actually allowed us to visit it as a connected, living, breathing world.  A map system destroys that for me.  Each level feels like an obstacle course or a mini dungeon set up for my entertainment rather than a new land for Mario to explore and discover in whatever order I like.  Exploring the world in a real, connected fashion was just part of the experience for me, and backtracking over familiar ground is a part of that sure.

Different people just have different cut-off points for what is an acceptable amount of backtracking.  For example, if you're gonna say the map is objectively better because why ever would you want to retread familiar ground, you might as well ditch any kind of central town too, just replace all that with menus on the map screen, why waste time walking in and out of shops each time?

And even in it's current state, frequently Sticker Star's courses would have "end points" that can't really be backtracked from.  If you missed something in the level, too bad, you have to re-enter it and have all the puzzles and storyline for that course be reset, and you must return to where you want to explore from the same fixed point each time.

I'd have no issue with a fast travel system being implemented.  The way Paper Mario and TTYD handled pipes was nice, but not essential.  Fun fact - when I play Zelda games I never use warps because I enjoy the act of travelling around the whole way myself.  I only use them when the story demands it, Wind Waker especially.  But they are correct to put those in for the majority of players who want to.  But making that the only way to travel would be ridiculous.  Can you imagine a Zelda game getting a map screen and being divided up into courses?  Sure it could be done, but it would be a massively different experience.  SPM and Sticker Star dividing the game up into courses had that effect on me, I didn't like it.  Super Paper Mario only gets a pass from me because they used the expected 4 level structure to pull surprises on us later on.

The only reason it's "acceptable" in Paper Mario is because the platformers do it, but yeah, I miss the fully connected worlds.  And you can't say TTYD or Paper Mario N64 would've been the same experiences using them either, since pretty much every chapter re-used maps economically  for each chapter.  The only way a map system like Sticker Stars would've worked in those games is if the majority of chapters just had 2 courses, one being the "overworld" part of that chapter, the other being the "dungeon" part of that chapter.

[Chris Knopps]

9 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Regarding the map discussion, part of Paper Mario's appeal for me was the sense of it being a large, connected world, the first ever depiction of the Mushroom Kingdom that actually allowed us to visit it as a connected, living, breathing world.  A map system destroys that for me.  Each level feels like an obstacle course or a mini dungeon set up for my entertainment rather than a new land for Mario to explore and discover in whatever order I like.  Exploring the world in a real, connected fashion was just part of the experience for me, and backtracking over familiar ground is a part of that sure.

Different people just have different cut-off points for what is an acceptable amount of backtracking.  For example, if you're gonna say the map is objectively better because why ever would you want to retread familiar ground, you might as well ditch any kind of central town too, just replace all that with menus on the map screen, why waste time walking in and out of shops each time?

And even in it's current state, frequently Sticker Star's courses would have "end points" that can't really be backtracked from.  If you missed something in the level, too bad, you have to re-enter it and have all the puzzles and storyline for that course be reset, and you must return to where you want to explore from the same fixed point each time.

I'd have no issue with a fast travel system being implemented.  The way Paper Mario and TTYD handled pipes was nice, but not essential.  Fun fact - when I play Zelda games I never use warps because I enjoy the act of travelling around the whole way myself.  I only use them when the story demands it, Wind Waker especially.  But they are correct to put those in for the majority of players who want to.  But making that the only way to travel would be ridiculous.  Can you imagine a Zelda game getting a map screen and being divided up into courses?  Sure it could be done, but it would be a massively different experience.  SPM and Sticker Star dividing the game up into courses had that effect on me, I didn't like it.  Super Paper Mario only gets a pass from me because they used the expected 4 level structure to pull surprises on us later on.

The only reason it's "acceptable" in Paper Mario is because the platformers do it, but yeah, I miss the fully connected worlds.  And you can't say TTYD or Paper Mario N64 would've been the same experiences using them either, since pretty much every chapter re-used maps economically  for each chapter.  The only way a map system like Sticker Stars would've worked in those games is if the majority of chapters just had 2 courses, one being the "overworld" part of that chapter, the other being the "dungeon" part of that chapter.

Thank you for all of this.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

I'm still waiting for another Super Paper Mario, that one's my favorite. TTYD is good too but I don't usually feel like going back to it. It felt a tad... Slow? I'm not sure.

They could just add the humor and fun story to the main Mario games, but I doubt that'll ever happen.

[Chris Knopps]

5 hours ago, Valentine's Playa Kirito said:

I'm still waiting for another Super Paper Mario, that one's my favorite. TTYD is good too but I don't usually feel like going back to it. It felt a tad... Slow? I'm not sure.

They could just add the humor and fun story to the main Mario games, but I doubt that'll ever happen.

That final boss though... Holy shit.

...Why, why can;t we just get a sequel to that already instead of making spin-off's of a spin-off the majority doesn't even like outside of japan?

Seriously, look at the reception to this game so far all over the place.

[Sonictrainer]

"Colorless Spots Restored"

I wonder what the stars mean.

[Doctor MK]

6 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

I wonder what the stars mean.

Well we saw a red star up at the top of the tower in the first town area (which I presume is the "level clear" marker), so I'm going to assume the stars are different exits or maybe they're like achievement markers - one star for completing the level, another star for restoring 100% of the colour.

EDIT: GameXplain have run the trailer through the ol' analysis machine...

 

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

6 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

"Colorless Spots Restored"

I wonder what the stars mean.

I just had a thought, what if the map is the pause menu?

[Doctor MK]

Just now, Mando-Whirl-Wind said:

I just had a thought, what if the map is the pause menu?

We actively see Mario moving from one level to another on the world map in the trailer. It's definitely not a pause menu.

[Chris Knopps]

It's a d@mn shame they're doing so much wrong once again with Paper Mario when this game does look extremely beautiful. I'll give it props for graphics.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I thought they had finally learned their lesson after Paper Jam Bros. I honestly don't even know why they're going back and doing exactly what people don't want. That's honestly Nintendo's biggest problem these days. They're going into SEGA's way of working now. Experimenting for the sake of it, finding out people don't like that, and yet going and doing it again for whatever reason when they already have a critically praised gameplay style from a previous game, and it shows in different games. Paper Mario, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival/Mario Vs Donkey Kong Amiibo whatever it's called, Mario Party 10 etc. They seriously don't realize that people don't just want 2D/3D Mario in Paper form. It's a shame too, because I thought Super Paper Mario was pretty damn good, even without the turn-based combat because it's strong focus on story. 

On another note, my guess is it's going to work like Mario 64 where you'll have some stars to collect in the level. The difference is you need to use the colour restorer to activate paths and such to get Mario up to where the stars actually are.

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I thought they had finally learned their lesson after Paper Jam Bros. I honestly don't even know why they're going back and doing exactly what people don't want. That's honestly Nintendo's biggest problem these days. They're going into SEGA's way of working now. Experimenting for the sake of it, finding out people don't like that, and yet going and doing it again for whatever reason when they already have a critically praised gameplay style from a previous game, and it shows in different games. Paper Mario, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival/Mario Vs Donkey Kong Amiibo whatever it's called, Mario Party 10 etc. They seriously don't realize that people don't just want 2D/3D Mario in Paper form. It's a shame too, because I thought Super Paper Mario was pretty damn good, even without the turn-based combat because it's strong focus on story. 

On another note, my guess is it's going to work like Mario 64 where you'll have some stars to collect in the level. The difference is you need to use the colour restorer to activate paths and such to get Mario up to where the stars actually are.

No... I think it's just going to be more like the red stars in Sonic 4 basically. Collecting them might unlock something unique, but I doubt they'll have an extraordinary purpose.

[Doctor MK]

I must admit, having watched the GameXplain analysis all the way through, I'm actually a little intrigued by the (potentially) new battle system. If it really is like a trading card game, in which you build a deck that doesn't get disposed after each use but rather relies on your paint levels to activate each move, I think it could be a heck of a lot more intuitive than Sticker Star.

The only reason I'm doubtful this will be the case is because cards seem to be so plentiful in the field and the fact you can buy them in shops too suggests they're probably one-shot items. But there's possibilities there, definitely. It wouldn't be traditional Paper Mario, for sure, but it could be a pretty neat TCG style simulation. Throw in some Color Splash amiibo cards too and Nintendo are likely onto a quick buck.

[Graystripe2000]

Here's the trailer analysis. 

 

[Chris Knopps]

...I got really annoyed when they were talking about the cards...

[Radiant Hero Ike]

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I thought they had finally learned their lesson after Paper Jam Bros. I honestly don't even know why they're going back and doing exactly what people don't want. That's honestly Nintendo's biggest problem these days. They're going into SEGA's way of working now. Experimenting for the sake of it, finding out people don't like that, and yet going and doing it again for whatever reason when they already have a critically praised gameplay style from a previous game, and it shows in different games. Paper Mario, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival/Mario Vs Donkey Kong Amiibo whatever it's called, Mario Party 10 etc. They seriously don't realize that people don't just want 2D/3D Mario in Paper form. It's a shame too, because I thought Super Paper Mario was pretty damn good, even without the turn-based combat because it's strong focus on story. 

On another note, my guess is it's going to work like Mario 64 where you'll have some stars to collect in the level. The difference is you need to use the colour restorer to activate paths and such to get Mario up to where the stars actually are.

While I disagree on the Amiibo games (they obviously learned people don't wanna pay for both a game AND amiibos to play it), these are at least all spin offs you mentioned, whereas with Sega it's every main game.

Speaking of, who developed TTYD?

 

[Marcello]

5 minutes ago, Valentine's Playa Kirito said:

While I disagree on the Amiibo games (they obviously learned people don't wanna pay for both a game AND amiibos to play it), these are at least all spin offs you mentioned, whereas with Sega it's every main game.

Speaking of, who developed TTYD?

 

Intelligent Systems, same as this.

[Doctor MK]

5 minutes ago, Valentine's Playa Kirito said:

Speaking of, who developed TTYD?

 

Intelligent Systems. They've done all the Paper Mario games, excluding Paper Jam.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Doctor MK said:

Intelligent Systems. They've done all the Paper Mario games, excluding Paper Jam.

And they did great, until Miyamoto shoved his two cents into the franchise.

Hope to God he retires after Zelda U releases.