Sega Plans 2016 Thread "Join us for Dancing with the Sonic" "25th party livestream links in OP"

[Guest]

I can get being annoyed at there not being a big Sonic game this year, or at how they've been teasing all of these little announcements. The latter especially. But I don't think there's a big outcry because of it though, not outside of fan forums which are usually just echo chambers with the same ten people repeating the same opinion anyway.

All I'm saying is it being an anniversary year is far from a guarantee of a big new Sonic game being released. Especially if Sega is serious about giving developers more time to develop games to ensure quality. Not that one won't be released, but it's probably best not to hype yourself up before anything is actually announced.

[Nepenthe]

Again, it's very hard to hype one's self up when the parent company of the thing you're interested in isn't doing any real hyping or teasing. A good deal of the outcry going on is the result of a two-way street here. Very few people get all that pissed when Sega isn't rumbling about the next big entry.

Also, we keep going on about polish as if it's definitely the reason why this game isn't being announced, when honestly not only does no one know shit about what's going on at Sonic Team right now but that arguably hasn't been the issue with Sonic Team developed games for like the past eight years. The issue has been the design elements of the games at the outset; no amount of time to polish a game that is inherently boring or flawed in its mechanics is going to make that much of a difference. So if the next game comes out and it's a fucking Colors retread, then the waiting game still won't be all that worth it anyway. Designing an interesting game first and foremost should have been the lesson we learned from Sonic 06 versus the self-evident "don't release shit early," particularly when you realize the best game of the franchise was rushed to the point of needing to be hacked in half.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Again, it's very hard to hype one's self up when the parent company of the thing you're interested in isn't doing any real hyping or teasing. A good deal of the outcry going on is the result of a two-way street here. Very few people get all that pissed when Sega isn't rumbling about the next big entry.

Also, we keep going on about polish as if it's definitely the reason why this game isn't being announced, when honestly not only does no one know shit about what's going on at Sonic Team right now but that arguably hasn't been the issue with Sonic Team developed games for like the past eight years. The issue has been the design elements of the games at the outset; no amount of time to polish a game that is inherently boring or flawed in its mechanics is going to make that much of a difference. So if the next game comes out and it's a fucking Colors retread, then the waiting game still won't be all that worth it anyway. Designing an interesting game first and foremost should have been the lesson we learned from Sonic 06 versus the self-evident "don't release shit early," particularly when you realize the best game of the franchise was rushed to the point of needing to be hacked in half.

Extra development time doesn't just mean extra polish though. Like you said, they should design an interesting game first and foremost, but designing that game can take a lot of time as well.

[Nepenthe]

It can. Or it cannot. Again, we don't know anything about the specifics of this game, so there's honestly no point in appealing to hypothetical challenges to justify why this game hasn't been revealed yet. Although honestly if they're still in the design stage at this point and it comes out next year, we might still be in trouble anyway.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Nepenthe

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

It can. Or it cannot. Again, we don't know anything about the specifics of this game, so there's honestly no point in appealing to hypothetical challenges to justify why this game hasn't been revealed yet. Although honestly if they're still in the design stage at this point and it comes out next year, we might still be in trouble anyway.

If you want to discuss why a game hasn't been revealed yet, then I'm afraid you can't do much better than speculation. :V

Also, I didn't say Sonic Team was still in the design stage. What I meant was that if they're taking more time to develop a game than usual, that that'd likely mean more time spent at the design table.

[S.O.N.I.C]

7 hours ago, TimmiT said:

I can get being annoyed at there not being a big Sonic game this year, or at how they've been teasing all of these little announcements. The latter especially. But I don't think there's a big outcry because of it though, not outside of fan forums which are usually just echo chambers with the same ten people repeating the same opinion anyway.

All I'm saying is it being an anniversary year is far from a guarantee of a big new Sonic game being released. Especially if Sega is serious about giving developers more time to develop games to ensure quality. Not that one won't be released, but it's probably best not to hype yourself up before anything is actually announced.

But the fact that they're treating this anniversary like any other anniversary, along with the fact that ST hasn't made main game in three years, their longest time not releasing a game, it makes it absurd to believe that a game won't at least be released this year.

[Nepenthe]

42 minutes ago, TimmiT said:

If you want to discuss why a game hasn't been revealed yet, then I'm afraid you can't do much better than speculation. :V

I'm not actually all that interested in why the game hasn't been revealed; as I said before, the lack of news wouldn't bother me in most other circumstances anyway. My argument is that the lack of a reveal coupled with Sega hyping up teases concerning everything else around the franchise because herpaderp anniversary is just annoying, understandably so, and it adds to the feeling when those who haven't bought into anything that's going on for whatever reason are dogging on those who have, particularly since a lot of restlessness could have been mitigated on Sega's end in the first place. I understand people get unreasonably impatient for no reason at all during dry spells and it's annoying, but I wouldn't conflate this particular situation with one where someone is just bored. I honestly can't find much fault in those who are just fed up right now outside of them having the audacity to be a little too optimistic and actually invested in the franchise.

[Woun]

10 hours ago, TimmiT said:

Because Persona 5 wasn't meant to be revealed that early before release. The original release date was Winter 2014. And unlike Sonic, people will get hyped for Persona just because of the name. With Sonic they'll have to show something good or people won't expect much.

>people will get hyped for Persona just because of the name.

W-what?! 

They make good game with nice characters and good story. And I don't care that they postponed the release date. Persona 5 looks impressive for the players. For a long time, I have not seen that Atlus deceived his fans.

But Sega and Sonic Team maked new freaky Sonic Boom game. For what? People still like it? And no word about new game to the 25th anniversary, and whether it is of waiting?

[Chris Knopps]

The only thing concerning me is how easily people are saying SEGA has so much of their trust now, and how it has reached an almost religious level with the repetition of SEGA has essentially learned everything they needed to learn and are now somehow miracle workers just because of saying nothing about the next game.

 

This... I do not understand. The enthusiasm is admirable, the faith commendable, but at the same time... You have to ask how and why.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

The only thing concerning me is how easily people are saying SEGA has so much of their trust now, and how it has reached an almost religious level with the repetition of SEGA has essentially learned everything they needed to learn and are now somehow miracle workers just because of saying nothing about the next game.

 

This... I do not understand. The enthusiasm is admirable, the faith commendable, but at the same time... You have to ask how and why.

Uh.....where has this happened? 

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Sonikku Mikyeong said:

Uh.....where has this happened? 

You see it everywhere. The line "they've learned" is repeated, again, religiously it seems. "They've delayed because they've learned" essentially. "They're silent because they've learned" is the second common line.

Not exact words, but the same general statement you see repeated quite often. I've no issue with it per-se, I just wonder how it is that SEGA so easily garnered so many dedicated believers just out of a game delay and total silence.

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

You see it everywhere.

I've seen it nowhere. At most there are people saying that taking their time on it is probably a good thing, that it's better for them to hold off and make sure they can get it properly finished than to rush it out, but I have not seen anyone expressing any kind of fervent faith in them because of that or for any other reason.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

I've seen it nowhere. At most there are people saying that taking their time on it is probably a good thing, that it's better for them to hold off and make sure they can get it properly finished than to rush it out, but I have not seen anyone expressing any kind of fervent faith in them because of that or for any other reason.

Just stating what's circling the hive at the moment. I just don't see how it became such a widespread belief. It's not a bad thing, just confusing.

I'll say they've learned after I see the final product, both regarding Fire and Ice and... Whatever the anniversary, or next years game is, since we really don't even know if there WILL be an anniversary game. Time will tell.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

And also, it's not a bad thing to express faith as well. I have faith in SEGA though they have fucked up sometimes...however I enjoy the franchise and the games and if they have to delay a game, so be it. Not everyone needs to be cynical.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Sonikku Mikyeong said:

And also, it's not a bad thing to express faith as well. I have faith in SEGA though they have fucked up sometimes...however I enjoy the franchise and the games and if they have to delay a game, so be it. Not everyone needs to be cynical.

I agree revolving game delays. I've yet to play a delayed title that disappointed me, being honest. Although that's likely chalked up to luck more than anything I suppose.

[Sami]

41 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

The only thing concerning me is how easily people are saying SEGA has so much of their trust now, and how it has reached an almost religious level with the repetition of SEGA has essentially learned everything they needed to learn and are now somehow miracle workers just because of saying nothing about the next game.

 

This... I do not understand. The enthusiasm is admirable, the faith commendable, but at the same time... You have to ask how and why.

Because companies are run by people, not pedigrees. There's new management at SEGA (most notably a new CEO) that have said in interviews that quality is a priority and deadlines will be made more lax than the past as a result of this new dedication to delivering better products. Fire and Ice was the first Sonic game to be delayed by several months since... ever? The only example I can think of in franchise history is 06's PS3 release, by two months. 

I see no reason to assume the worst of Haruki Satomi's SEGA just because his grandfather grossly mismanaged the company. He's a different guy with different plans and priorities, and as I have no reason to do otherwise, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. The Sonic Team most likely responsible for this game has already proven their competence as well, so better management bodes well for the future.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Sami said:

Because companies are run by people, not pedigrees. There's new management at SEGA (most notably a new CEO) that have said in interviews that quality is a priority and deadlines will be made more lax than the past as a result of this new dedication to delivering better products. Fire and Ice was the first Sonic game to be delayed by several months since... ever? The only example I can think of in franchise history is 06's PS3 release, by two months. 

I see no reason to assume the worst of Haruki Satomi's SEGA just because his grandfather grossly mismanaged the company. He's a different guy with different plans and priorities, and as I have no reason to do otherwise, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. The Sonic Team most likely responsible for this game has already proven their competence as well, so better management bodes well for the future.

I'm not assuming anything really. I'm just in the mindset a wary stance is better than positive or negative.

Also keep in mind the delay seems to have done little if anything for Fire and Ice given what we know thus far, save for the "likely" fact it was delayed for the purpose of becoming a 25th anniversary holiday title. I plan to get it, improvements or not, as I enjoyed Shattered Crystal nonetheless.

[Sami]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'm not assuming anything really. I'm just in the mindset a wary stance is better than positive or negative.

Also keep in mind the delay seems to have done little if anything for Fire and Ice given what we know thus far, save for the "likely" fact it was delayed for the purpose of becoming a 25th anniversary holiday title. I plan to get it, improvements or not, as I enjoyed Shattered Crystal nonetheless.

Was there news on Fire and Ice since the delay? I haven't heard, but I wasn't planning on getting it anyway so I haven't been paying attention.

And sure, I guess. I'm in the mindset that staying positive is better for us as individuals and a community overall than being overly wary or negative over good news. 

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Sami said:

Was there news on Fire and Ice since the delay? I haven't heard, but I wasn't planning on getting it anyway so I haven't been paying attention.

And sure, I guess. I'm in the mindset that staying positive is better for us as individuals and a community overall than being overly wary or negative over good news. 

Yes, if I'm not mistaken the game has four bosses, six exploration based stages, and two mini-game centric stages.

Only other thing I recall is the game having Sonic 2 inspired special stages.

So overall, despite the year long delay, it seems surprisingly short.

[Sami]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Yes, if I'm not mistaken the game has four bosses, six exploration based stages, and two mini-game centric stages.

Only other thing I recall is the game having Sonic 2 inspired special stages.

So overall, despite the year long delay, it seems surprisingly short.

Oh, well I'd hope they wouldn't be delaying games to kick them back into the planning stage and make them longer lol. I expect tweaks to the level design and a much higher level of polish.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Sami said:

Oh, well I'd hope they wouldn't be delaying games to kick them back into the planning stage and make them longer lol. I expect tweaks to the level design and a much higher level of polish.

The only thing I'd wager the year long delay did was some graphical/effect improvements, control tuning, and POSSIBLY some script tweaking/rewriting, but that's about it.

[Salamander]

Much of the delay was clearly just so they'd have a peak-sales-period 3DS release for their latest anniversary year, though.  I would be very surprised if it had either received or needed a full extra year's work.

[Sami]

3 hours ago, FFWF said:

Much of the delay was clearly just so they'd have a peak-sales-period 3DS release for their latest anniversary year, though.  I would be very surprised if it had either received or needed a full extra year's work.

I'm really not seeing the evidence for this. Is there any actual reason to believe someone at SEGA just clocked into work one day last year and said "oh shit we have an anniversary next year! Delay it!" or is this all just pessimistic speculation. 

Like I said, I haven't paid attention to that game, but the reasoning here doesn't make sense to me.

[Milo]

10 hours ago, Sami said:

Fire and Ice was the first Sonic game to be delayed by several months since... ever? The only example I can think of in franchise history is 06's PS3 release, by two months.

Sonic 4: Episode I was delayed out of its Summer 2010 release date into Fall in response to the Partnernet leak and the resulting negative reception from many classic fans about the game.

Most people don't remember though because it's Sonic 4 (low-budget downloadable game, rather than a major retail release like Fire and Ice and the PS3 version of Sonic 2006) and because there was hardly any meaningful changes from the "beta" and the final product (save for the notorious gimmicky minecart and pinball stages replaced with two traditional levels made from scratch, every other change was cosmetic at best).

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Woun said:

>people will get hyped for Persona just because of the name.

W-what?! 

They make good game with nice characters and good story. And I don't care that they postponed the release date. Persona 5 looks impressive for the players. For a long time, I have not seen that Atlus deceived his fans.

But Sega and Sonic Team maked new freaky Sonic Boom game. For what? People still like it? And no word about new game to the 25th anniversary, and whether it is of waiting?

What I meant was that a new Sonic game can't be promoted like Persona 5. Not while getting the same reaction out of people anyway.

Aside from one spin-off game, so far there hasn't really been a bad Persona game. So fans expect something good out of the next main Persona game even if they don't know anything about it, they'll just be happy knowing that it's being made. Just look at how excited people got when Atlus registered the Persona 5 website. And again when they announced the game while only vaguely teasing what the game's tone would even be.

Outside of a small part of the Sonic fanbase, if Sega announced the next Sonic game without showing anything the reaction people would probably have is skepticism. And rightfully so after how badly Sega has managed the franchise. After the mixed reception of Lost World and how bad Rise of Lyric was they're going to have to win people back.

Atlus could reveal Persona 5 without showing anything because Persona fans trust them. Sega doesn't have that with Sonic, they're going to have to win back the trust of Sonic fans and people in general. While Atlus could market Persona 5 to their fans just by saying that the game is being made, Sega is going to have to convince their fans that the next Sonic game will be good at all.