Confirmed: Iizuka is at Sega of America "Rumour: Overseeing Multiple Sonic Games/SOA to be Sonic Hub"

[Dejimon11]

28 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

See the difference is all the pre-Colors games weren't done by Pontac and Graff. Whom as we've confirmed are collectively the devil.

I'm sorry I don't get what you were trying to accomplish with this post. 

[SSF1991]

1 hour ago, Dejimon11 said:

And those are all justified because?

They're not. The point has nothing to do with context. The point is that Lost World, indeed didn't really explain the Deadly Six or the Lost Hex all that well, but it's not the only Sonic game to do this.

 

35 minutes ago, KHCast said:

What does Unleashed's intro events have anything to do with anything? It's not relevant to any of the story following it. It just serves as a Eggman is fighting Sonic thing, cause, you know, that's what they do. Only this time Eggman had the upper hand at the end. Your point would hold more water if events prior to that were constantly being brought up and were vital to understanding Unleashed. 

Well, seeing as how that fight is what set up Unleashed in the first place, I'd say it's very relevant. They even recall the intro's events a few times afterward (Orbot reminds Eggman that he discarded the emeralds with Sonic when he ejected him from his space station, and when Dark Gaia's pieces scattered through out the planet). Granted, the lead up to Super Sonic and Eggman's fight is a different story on its own, but I'm very curious as to what went down prior. It's something they just never explained.

1 hour ago, Hyper Enesephus said:

 people are willing to suspend their disbelief for weird plot developments, but, sometimes, that willing suspension breaks, and, for many people, it broke in Lost World. It introduces a "new world" that really doesn't explain what's so different about it and our world, beyond the weird level design. It introduces a group of characters that look like no Sonic character we've ever seen, and doesn't explain if Zeti are just native to the Lost Hex, and, if so, why we only see six of them, what their powers are, exactly, or any of those kinds of things things. It also brings the wisps back, but with absolutely no explanation, they're just a gameplay mechanic now. Lost World just leaves a lot unexplained, and, in a game that's clearly going for more of a story than Colors or Generations had, that is an issue.

Again, it has nothing to do with weird plot developments. Lost World doesn't explain anything, but what I was getting at is that neither do other Sonic games. Not just old games, but recent ones. Some of it may be nitpicking, but the point remains. Lost World is being singled out for not explaining things, even though that problem has existed for years. Granted, it seems Lost World was really bad at explaining things compared to others, but still. I just don't think it's fair to ignore that.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think it's fair to to single out one game for this when other Sonic games were guilty of this flaw.

5 hours ago, Mauricius said:

Most of these plot elements fit the stories they appear in, are at least somewhat explained or aren't presented as something important to the story.

But it's still there. And to say "most" acknowledges that there are some plot elements that didn't apply to any of the things you mentioned. So, again, the point remains. Lost World is not alone in doing this.

 

[Enesephus]

2 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Again, it has nothing to do with weird plot developments. Lost World doesn't explain anything, but what I was getting at is that neither do other Sonic games. Not just old games, but recent ones. Some of it may be nitpicking, but the point remains. Lost World is being singled out for not explaining things, even though that problem has existed for years. Granted, it seems Lost World was really bad at explaining things compared to others, but still. I just don't think it's fair to ignore that.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think it's fair to to single out one game for this when other Sonic games were guilty of this flaw.

Sonic games generally do adequately explain their plot developments, though, allowing people to suspend their disbelief. There's a reason why people are generally willing to accept Chaos or Dark Gaia, but take such umbrage with the way the Deadly Six and the Lost Hex were handled in Lost World. I'm not saying the stories in previous Sonic games are perfect or anything, or even all that well told all of the time, but Lost World's story just leaves so much unexplained, it makes sense that so many people would criticize it the way they do, especially with it being the first time SEGA tried to tell a bigger story after Unleashed.

No one's denying that the other stories may have issues of their own, but Lost World's story is quite flawed. It's also the most recent console game from Sonic Team, so that may have something to do with it.

[Kfarc]

About Lost World "no Zeti explenation": Why do we need one in the first place? There is enough about them: powerful aliens found by Eggman, he used them, hurt them. They didn't liked that, so at first given oportunity they broke free and, thanks to theirs natural abillities, they took over Egg-army. They want to take revange on Eggman by destroying the world. Sonic don't like that, Eggman wants to defet Zetis. There. Easy plot. And it works because it wasn't trying to be like action anime (I don't know how it's called, don't kill me...). The story was trying to be a western kids cartoon. Some laugh, some dark, good wins, evil lose. The end. Writers acomplieshed most of their goals. Please... just stop drilling on that.

[Dejimon11]

15 minutes ago, Hyper Enesephus said:

Sonic games generally do adequately explain their plot developments, though, allowing people to suspend their disbelief. There's a reason why people are generally willing to accept Chaos or Dark Gaia, but take such umbrage with the way the Deadly Six and the Lost Hex were handled in Lost World. I'm not saying the stories in previous Sonic games are perfect or anything, or even all that well told all of the time, but Lost World's story just leaves so much unexplained, it makes sense that so many people would criticize it the way they do, especially with it being the first time SEGA tried to tell a bigger story after Unleashed.

No one's denying that the other stories may have issues of their own, but Lost World's story is quite flawed. It's also the most recent console game from Sonic Team, so that may have something to do with it.

To add to this when they were promoting Lost World they were hyping up the deadly six to the point where we should care about these guys and they're the biggest threat not to mention it felt like for the first time in a while they actually wanted us to pay attention to the story. 

Edit: Also nobody is excusing the other games for their lack of context trust me I've seen threads and status post talking about the games plot a lot. The thing with Lost World is that it's the most recent.

[Mauricius]

I thing the thing that excuses other games is simply that they have more interesting stories. Despite the really messy presentation, after finishing Sonic Adventure you have this fun story about adventure, ancient ruins and civilisations, futuristic robots and bases, a powerful water monster, all told through perspectives of different characters. SA2 has a few flaws besides translation, but it also has all these awesome elements coming one after another. Black Knight's story isn't too special, but the cutscenes perfectly fit a storybook game and it has an epic finale. I really don't see any issues regarding Unleashed's intro. Just because it's located in a space station and he turns Super doesn't mean it's an ending of a grand story. He probably just happened to have all emeralds when he discovered Eggman is up to something and attacked his station. The intro actually does a great job explaining the fundamental Sonic knowledge to a new player like what Super Sonic and Chaos Emeralds are, which are crucial to the rest of story.

Heroes' story is relatively simple, cutscenes are just there to inform us what's happening in the most basic way possible, and Metal Sonic has a perfect reason to betray Eggman if you finished the race against him in CD. They get boring too, but at least the plot makes sense, even if it has a lot of excuses to bring all these characters into the game.

See, this is another difference besides Lost world having more boring story (IMO) than other titles. It often gets unnecessarily dragged with random character talks. I guess the whole problem is because Pontaff tend to focus more on character interactions rather than the story elements, which isn't a bad thing by itself (characters speak much more naturally and in a realistic way - like they are real friends and not just action heroes in a video game), but it's a direct opposite to pre-2010 titles. In many Sonic games, characters say a lot of weird lines, and since they don't speak like real people, you don't expect the story to make perfect realistic sense. Instead, players focus goes more on the ideas presented and character personalities, so the flaws matter less. At least that's what I figure.

Wait... why are we even talking about Lost World's story again?

[Bowbowis]

2 hours ago, Kfarc said:

About Lost World "no Zeti explenation": Why do we need one in the first place?

We don't. At least not in the sense you're speaking of. As you yourself just pointed out the Zeti's role and motivation in the plot are adequately explained and, for the most part, make sense if we accept the situation the game presents it to us. The problem is that the game fails to adequately explain how that situation came about.

Eggman's plan in Lost World is to build an energy draining machine, use it to suck the life out of Earth, and powerful up a robot with it. Now that's all well and good save for one thing: Why is Eggman on the Hex? This is the question from which all of the others stem. As stated Eggman's plan is completely unrelated to the Hex. The lack of information on the Hex, and thus lack of connection to what Eggman is doing, means that not only is it unexplained within the context of Sonic's world but also that its, and by extension the Zeti's, presence in the story is completely nonsensical.

[Sonikko]

48 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

We don't. At least not in the sense you're speaking of. As you yourself just pointed out the Zeti's role and motivation in the plot are adequately explained and, for the most part, make sense if we accept the situation the game presents it to us. The problem is that the game fails to adequately explain how that situation came about.

Eggman's plan in Lost World is to build an energy draining machine, use it to suck the life out of Earth, and powerful up a robot with it. Now that's all well and good save for one thing: Why is Eggman on the Hex? This is the question from which all of the others stem. As stated Eggman's plan is completely unrelated to the Hex. The lack of information on the Hex, and thus lack of connection to what Eggman is doing, means that not only is it unexplained within the context of Sonic's world but also that its, and by extension the Zeti's, presence in the story is completely nonsensical.

Well, I've always seen it as he's on the hex because he found out about the powerful Deadly Six and enslaved them. He wanted to use them to keep Sonic and his buddies busy while he drained all the energy from the Earth, but his plan failed mid-way, and that's where the story really begins, in Desert Ruins.

In all honesty there's as much backstory as in Sonic CD, or Adventure too. In CD they didn't narrate much of the planet, even in the booklet, it was just kind of there. The story may be shallow and have all of the flaws everybody already pointed out, but it's just as bad as any other game. It's not great, it's not awful, it's there to keep the levels together in a platform game, kinda like how Mario's ones work, just not as simple.

EDIT: As pointed out earlier in this very thread, Riders has a cute storyline (imho), but it still does not justify all of its characters or locations. I get that the Lost Hex just appeared out of nowhere in the canon and it has no reason to be there at all, but it never actually had to. What I agree on is the shift on tone, that may or may not appeal to the older fans. I, for myself, prefer the more serious tone from the Adventure/Storybook saga, but I don't mind the comedy shift, it's not that bad if you're into cartoons, it just needs not to be taken seriously.

[SSF1991]

2 hours ago, Mauricius said:

Wait... why are we even talking about Lost World's story again?

Sonic Lost Thread. Featuring the Off-Topic Six.

Free DLC for The Sonic Show Zone and SEGASonic Radio Zone levels coming soon.

[Kfarc]

10 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Well, I've always seen it as he's on the hex because he found out about the powerful Deadly Six and enslaved them. He wanted to use them to keep Sonic and his buddies occupied while he drained all the energy from the Earth, but his plan failed mid-way, and that's where the story really begins, in Desert Ruins.

As for how did he find out about them? I don't know. Maybe ancient manuscript/old diary/legend/myth/conspiracy theory (scratch unneeded ones).

[Sonikko]

In any story, you never find out how Eggman found the monster of the week!

[Nepenthe]

CD's Little Planet was actually justified in the manuals by being defined as a small planet that appears every year randomly. It's also called Miracle Planet and exclusively houses the Time Stones on it, meaning it's reasonable that Eggman would take a notice of it and see it as a unique and valuable resource. But all we know about Lost Hex is that it's a floating continent where the Zeti live; we have no other information about it, no real reason to understand why it's a valuable source for Eggman's ambitions other than he can use the Zeti as guard dogs (which explains the missions to send five of them at a time hunting for Small Animals instead), meaning the entire setting is the most irrelevant one we've had in a mainline console game thus far. SLW could have taken place on Earth and not actually missed a beat.

This isn't the same for any of the other monsters of the week or relevant settings of past games either. From Chaos all the way to the Time Eater, they are properly established in the narrative either by manuscripts and murals, by being introduced properly as characters or plot devices with some background information as to their history and abilities, or they are already of Eggman's own creation. Even Sonic 06 established Iblis and Mephiles as being the accidental results of the Duke's experiments. But we get literally nothing from Lost Hex and thus it has no reasonable context for its own existence.

[PF1690]

On ‎02‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 4:30 AM, McGroose said:

I don't need the story to be longer, just better quality than what we've been recently getting. While Generations had a simple plot to follow, it felt incredibly watered down. This feels especially noticeable when you consider all of the CGI trailers that felt like they belonged in the game. Sonic Lost World also proved lackluster story-wise. We get nearly no explanation or backstory for the Deadly Six, neither in the game or in the comic.

The plot can be both simple and solid, Sega. I don't want another Shadow or 06, but I wouldn't mind another Unleashed styled story or even a story like Colors.

Could not have said it better myself. As much as a longer story would be nice, a higher quality story is necessary for the series, I believe.

[Hyp3hat]

On 06/04/2016 at 4:05 PM, KHCast said:

What does Unleashed's intro events have anything to do with anything? It's not relevant to any of the story following it. It just serves as a Eggman is fighting Sonic thing, cause, you know, that's what they do. Only this time Eggman had the upper hand at the end. Your point would hold more water if events prior to that were constantly being brought up and were vital to understanding Unleashed. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_medias_res

I love how Sonic Unleashed opens - starting at the ending cutscene for another Sonic game. It also gives a great hook for the action - Sonic survives the fall (he must have had some rings left to survive re-entry) but Eggman's just decisively won, Dark Gaia diffusing notwithstanding.

[SBR2]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 10:48 AM, Hyper Enesephus said:

Except, no, they're really not.

I was being Sarcastic. I like Pontac and Graff and I was making fun of the reaction they tend to get.

[DarkLight]

Except I don't think anyone here has ever treated them or said they're like "the devil." So that is still an exaggeration even if it's meant to be sarcastic.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

As people refer to more things as the devil, the devil itself becomes increasingly mild. Either way Pontac and Graff are good for certain dialogue bits when everything isn't trying to be too serious, but core plots should focus around actual threats and character development that isn't left to them.

[Enesephus]

On 4/8/2016 at 4:06 PM, SBR2 said:

I was being Sarcastic. I like Pontac and Graff and I was making fun of the reaction they tend to get.

I honestly couldn't tell if it was sarcastic or not. However, knowing you were being sarcastic, I agree with you.

 

On 4/8/2016 at 4:14 PM, DarkLight said:

Except I don't think anyone here has ever treated them or said they're like "the devil." So that is still an exaggeration even if it's meant to be sarcastic.

Well, people on this very site act like they single-handedly ruined the series, story wise, as though SEGA themselves had nothing to do with the direction of the series has gone. They might as well just call them "the devil."

[DarkLight]

Even as someone who doesn't care for Pontaff's work, I take issue with painting every critical impression made here of their writing as pure unfiltered, hatred for them as people.

SBR2 had no reason to shoehorn them into this discussion and make such a poorly-thought out generalization.  

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, DarkLight said:

Even as someone who doesn't care for Pontaff's work, I take issue with painting every critical impression made here of their writing as something not to look fondly upon.

SBR2 had no reason to shoehorn them into this discussion and make such a poorly-thought out generalization.  

Seconded. I don't like Pontac and Graff, I don't think that if they had any strengths that it would fit in the context of this series, and the end results tend to be rather disastrous. But not only do I think that they're only a part of the narrative problems in the series, I don't see how they're fucking relevant to this discussion in the slightest.

Derailing every single discussion into rants about Pontac and Graff is getting fucking annoying, and is helping nothing. I agree that they're not a good fit, but doing this bullshit at every turn does nothing but undermine the discussion.

[SBR2]

16 hours ago, DarkLight said:

Even as someone who doesn't care for Pontaff's work, I take issue with painting every critical impression made here of their writing as pure unfiltered, hatred for them as people.

SBR2 had no reason to shoehorn them into this discussion and make such a poorly-thought out generalization.  

I was shoehorning them into a discussion about how Lost World, a game they wrote, not explaining things isn't exactly a new thing in this franchise? Ok?

[Kfarc]

Can we stop looking back and look foreword asking ourselves: what all of this mean? What EXACTLY Iizuka is overseeing in America? What can it bring new on a table? And why now? Does it mean that 25th Anniversery game is over? Will there be more cars to destroy?

 

[McGroose]

3 hours ago, Kfarc said:

Can we stop looking back and look foreword asking ourselves: what all of this mean? What EXACTLY Iizuka is overseeing in America? What can it bring new on a table? And why now? Does it mean that 25th Anniversery game is over? Will there be more cars to destroy?

 

What implies any possibility of the 25th anniversary game being over? 

The fact there are multiple Sonic games isn't really something I'd prefer to hear, but I'm hoping that they're just referring to the Boom game and the single 25th Anniversary game. I really don't want more than one 25th anniversary game (Besides Fire & Ice, I guess). I want all of Sonic Team and Sega to place all of their resources into a single game so that we can get the best from it.

[Kfarc]

9 minutes ago, McGroose said:

What implies any possibility of the 25th anniversary game being over? 

The fact there are multiple Sonic games isn't really something I'd prefer to hear, but I'm hoping that they're just referring to the Boom game and the single 25th Anniversary game. I really don't want more than one 25th anniversary game (Besides Fire & Ice, I guess). I want all of Sonic Team and Sega to place all of their resources into a single game so that we can get the best from it.

By over I meant at the end of production cycle (sorry, just a wierd day I have).

Well, there was a rumor about two Sonic Team games planed for this year. But for now it's nothing more then just rumor, I guess  . Also, I think he will oversee future games. So they have something planed for a future. My money goes on Sonic movie companion game, maybe another Boom game.

[Chris Knopps]

I detest the whole "one Sonic game, not to many Sonic games" ideology and call bullcr@p on it.

I'm not interested in the idea of Sonic being another d@mn Zelda series where it's some odd years just for a new big Sonic game with only re-releases to fill the void for the most part because people b@$ch "one at a time!! too many!! focus!!" and all that when multiple games in the past were never an issue, it's called spin-off's that were actually successes despite the spiteful protests, including the Advanced and Rush games, the Riders games "until Free f@cked it up" and the Racing titles.

Then you had Black Knight as a spin-off which, by and large, is greatly underappreciated for doing what it did to fix Secret Rings mistakes.

There's nothing wrong with multiple Sonic games whatsoever, it's a matter of the right people behind the job.