Women don't hate Elise?

[MetalSkulkBane]

Have you heard about Sonic Dissected? Give it a try, it's better then it looks. Basically it's two guys talking about Sonic. Not reviews or let's plays, just thinking about different part of the franchise.

But in this video around minute14 they claimed that Elise is hated mostly by men.

Is that true? Does female Sonic fans actually like Elise?

Personally I'm male European in early 20 and I can't say I hate her, in fact I see potential in her story. However she's not very interesting as a person, obviously would work better as a mobian and she should never try to become Sonic's love interest, when we already have Amy establish as Sonic sorta-love-interest, not the mention whole Amy/Sally disputes. (Although I think that bestiality accusations are mostly silly).

[Your Vest Friend]

Really should be more in the existing Dissected topic. 

 

As for the question at hand, I think it's less a separation of gender and more a separation of countries. I know plenty of men and women who hate Princess Elise, but in my experience she's less hated in Japan than in the West where she's universally despised. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

13 minutes ago, Detective Reptiles said:

Really should be more in the existing Dissected topic.

I guess, but that way I invite people to discussion about Elise, not the internet series they might care or not. And Sonic Dissect are just my source of information, not the topic. I could write "hey, I heard rumors that Elise..." and we wouldn't have this conversation.

[Singapore Sling]

6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Have you heard about Sonic Dissected? Give it a try, it's better then it looks.

No it isn't.

As for Elise, 

6 hours ago, Detective Reptiles said:

in the West where she's universally despised.

Not universally, just mostly.

Elise's character honestly isn't any more or less complex or simple than the grand majority of characters, so it's not really surprising she'd have her own fans like any character would. If you go by the massive gender stereotypes that constantly ensure dudes watch Bayformers and ladies watch Twilight for massive studio cash (and Sonic is, on average, about as good as both of these), Elise probably fulfills the niche of being a largely emotionally driven character in a series full of COOL DUDES WITH 'TUDES, so female fans wouldn't be out of the question.

That's a broad generalization and isn't really gonna apply to everyone, though. Just speaking as a dude I find her more interesting than most characters because she has a fairly unique character premise, with some sentimentality because she and Sonic remind me of my friend and I during high school, albeit that was a much less romantic context. But even divorced from the sentimental value, a character conditioned to repress her emotions due to ancient prophetical howdy do is a bit more interesting than most Sonic character premises. 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

She's liked where I am from because as a human people can identify more with her. Same with why most liked Chris to. It felt like they were in the game as well.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 hours ago, Detective Reptiles said:

Really should be more in the existing Dissected topic. 

 

As for the question at hand, I think it's less a separation of gender and more a separation of countries. I know plenty of men and women who hate Princess Elise, but in my experience she's less hated in Japan than in the West where she's universally despised. 

Could also have to do with how the respective scripts for each region's release were executed as well. 

[Forte-Metallix]

57 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

She's liked where I am from because as a human people can identify more with her. Same with why most liked Chris to. It felt like they were in the game as well.

I don't know many people who can identify with a human having romantic attraction towards an animal. 

Oh, wait...

[SenEDDtor Missile]

1 hour ago, Mikyeong said:

She's liked where I am from because as a human people can identify more with her. Same with why most liked Chris to. It felt like they were in the game as well.

Something to do with people seeing characters who aren't human as for babies/children so human characters are added in to be related to?

[Drawloverlala]

i used to dislike her a time ago.. but i never got to hate her... today.. i like her, but she is not of my favourites.. i just feel like she had potential as a character but it was wasted...

 i like the story she had surround..(the solaris thing, that she was not allowed to cry, the moral she had to learn that she should also have fun besides having responsabilities etc...) more than the  "suposed(?) romance she had with Sonic... 

and i think if only wasn't because she was kidnaped too many times and if it wasn't because her "romance" with Sonic....  who knows? maybe she would be as liked and accepted as Merlina and Shahra .... both of them had to learn things from Sonic and didn't have to be necessarily romantic to support importantly to the plot of their respective games..

as for  if Elise is more accepted for girls than boys.... i'm  not so sure...

girls who dislike her.. you can count of the female fans that are haters from other Son-couples..  haha

but although that....i've seen some female tumblr users being fans of her..and some of them think that her character develoment was kinda wasted because of the romance  and still like so much the character..

 

 

[Your Vest Friend]

Nah, I still think Elise would be pretty reviled. She'd be like to Amy as Chip is considered to Tails, probably. A bit worse because a lot of people seem to have an automatic hatred of humans that aren't Eggman.

[Diogenes]

Y'know, years back I probably would've said that I hated Elise, but at this point it's mellowed to apathy. Partially because she was a one-shot character from 10 years ago, sure, but also because...I don't really dislike the idea of Elise or her character arc, at least for the most part. Sheltered, emotionally cloistered girl meets adventurous free spirit and learns to open up, that's not a bad basis for a story (even if they basically already used that one with Blaze). Problem is that '06 is just so awkward about it, none of her and Sonic's interactions feel natural, and the romantic undertones are just so, so unfitting. It's the kind of story that needed a gentle touch to have any chance of working, but they ham-handed it as badly as everything else in the game.

[shdowhunt60]

37 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Y'know, years back I probably would've said that I hated Elise, but at this point it's mellowed to apathy. Partially because she was a one-shot character from 10 years ago, sure, but also because...I don't really dislike the idea of Elise or her character arc, at least for the most part. Sheltered, emotionally cloistered girl meets adventurous free spirit and learns to open up, that's not a bad basis for a story (even if they basically already used that one with Blaze). Problem is that '06 is just so awkward about it, none of her and Sonic's interactions feel natural, and the romantic undertones are just so, so unfitting. It's the kind of story that needed a gentle touch to have any chance of working, but they ham-handed it as badly as everything else in the game.

I think another thing is, is that Elise herself really lacked any self-motivation or initiative. When something goes wrong, she always just left it to someone else to fix it. I mean, she IS a princess after all, she could've afforded to show some leadership. That and the numerous occasions where she got kidnapped.

[Alienrun]

2 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

She's liked where I am from because as a human people can identify more with her. Same with why most liked Chris to. It felt like they were in the game as well.

Very interesting piece of information here. To an extent I felt the same way even though I'm from USA so I found it weird when others didn't share the same opinion.

[GamerGirl54321]

I liked her when I first played the game, but I was about 7 at the time, so that doesn't really count. I feel like she could have been handled a lot better - like, if your character literally can't cry without unleashing a horrific demon that's going to destroy everything, then she should be way less willing to display her emotions. But, for me at least, it's less hatred and more, "Damn, they could have done this way better."

[SSF1991]

16 minutes ago, GamerGirl54321 said:

"Damn, they could have done this way better."

That's basically Sonic 06 in a nutshell.

The amount of poor execution and business decisions that ruined the game is just too much to count. (That and we'd be sitting through too many loading screens to do so.)

[Haalyle]

Meh, she's alright. Not the best and probably one of the worst damsel's in distress, but she could be worse. At least she doesn't scream all the time.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I think another thing is, is that Elise herself really lacked any self-motivation or initiative. When something goes wrong, she always just left it to someone else to fix it. I mean, she IS a princess after all, she could've afforded to show some leadership. That and the numerous occasions where she got kidnapped.

There was that and the issue containing the fact that most times when she actually stood out are times that are infamously remembered as showing her as more selfish, creepy and/or just downright useless.

[Mega]

You know, I never got why human characters are seen as more relatable, tbh, when the characterization is always what sold me more than species. Is that weird? Idk. But I've always had a soft spot for nonhuman characters.

[ShadowSJG]

Elise is basically a female Chris from Sonic X......

[Salamander]

6 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

She's liked where I am from because as a human people can identify more with her. Same with why most liked Chris to. It felt like they were in the game as well.

 

1 hour ago, Mega said:

You know, I never got why human characters are seen as more relatable, tbh, when the characterization is always what sold me more than species. Is that weird? Idk. But I've always had a soft spot for nonhuman characters.

I find this set of statements intriguing.  I wonder if western cartoons are responsible for the west having more of a funny animal tradition, which Sonic fits into and is made more accessible by?  The disparity between human and anthro characters is particularly glaring in '06 because Elise is very human, practically photorealistic; the game gives me the impression of attempting to be "Sonic: The Movie," with human actors in the form of Elise and Eggman interacting with Sonic and his computer-generated animal buddies.

[ShadowSJG]

11 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Have you heard about Sonic Dissected? Give it a try, it's better then it looks. Basically it's two guys talking about Sonic. Not reviews or let's plays, just thinking about different part of the franchise.

But in this video around minute14 they claimed that Elise is hated mostly by men.

Is that true? Does female Sonic fans actually like Elise?

Personally I'm male European in early 20 and I can't say I hate her, in fact I see potential in her story. However she's not very interesting as a person, obviously would work better as a mobian and she should never try to become Sonic's love interest, when we already have Amy establish as Sonic sorta-love-interest, not the mention whole Amy/Sally disputes. (Although I think that bestiality accusations are mostly silly).

I see your point, but while it is not bestiality, it still is kind of messed up having a human fall in love with anthropomorphic hedgehog.  In t.v shows you may see human/ cartoon animal interactions but here the issue is that SEGA tried to make the relationship between the two serious love, which just doesn't work out. 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

8 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

She's liked where I am from because as a human people can identify more with her. Same with why most liked Chris to. It felt like they were in the game as well.

I always assumed that characterization is more important then being part of the same specie. Sonic is emotional, friendly, likes fun. I can identify with that. Elise has very little emotions I can share. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just surprised that Sonic fan would have problem with projecting himself on Antropomorphic animal.

1 hour ago, ShadowSJG said:

Elise is basically a female Chris from Sonic X......

Aaand here I don't agree. Elise isn't great in my opinion, but she has demon stuck in her belly, dead parents and responsibility of ruling whole country. She does very little, but she can't do much. She's not super powered, her main priority is not bursting into tears. That excuses her a little in my eyes.

Chris in other hand? He's rich, has grandpa, servants that care about him,awesome uncle, tons of friends and parents that love him very much, buuut they can't spend that much time with him, And that's why he's the saddest kid in the world, we should totally feel bad for him and he totally deserves Sonic to be his friend. Also, Elise is never on the screen without Sonic, Eggman or someone like else. How many times we just watched Chris and his dillemas, instead of having adventures with Sonic?

[Your Vest Friend]

It's going to be the disparity between values of Japan versus the values of the West. I know for a fact the talking animal thing is not nearly as popular over there as it is here, and you certainly couldn't use them in a variety of different scenarios (because basically all of them are on comedic shows). 

[Hyp3hat]

I don't hate the player, I hate the game. Every attempt at characterisation in 06 is really terrible - why do Amy and Elise love Sonic so much that they would willingly watch the world burn for him? The main story of 06 isn't even related in Sonic's story.

I mean, I love to hate 06, but I don't actively hate Elise. There's not much mileage in hating a fictional character, just hate the people who wrote them instead. 

[Tara]

5 hours ago, Mega said:

You know, I never got why human characters are seen as more relatable, tbh, when the characterization is always what sold me more than species. Is that weird? Idk. But I've always had a soft spot for nonhuman characters.

It's an age-old tradition in animation that children need a character to relate to that more closely resembles them, rather it's portrayed through species or conflict.  I'm not sure how or why it started, but I agree, it's generally not very good storytelling when you feel you have to assign a character to make the audience feel.  I've made this comparison before, but Chris and Elise can be compared to Jubilee from X-Men... except whereas Jubilee eventually became a good character in her own right, Chris and Elise just sort of served to steal the limelight away from the characters we paid to see in the first place, making them immediately undesirable.

Basically, I'm just saying it's not a weird thing at all.  Having compelling characters should be the primary focus, but recent games sort of assign all interesting conflict to secondary characters, sadly enough.