Is Super Sonic useless? What do you think about him

[Unknown]

I actually wouldn't mind Super Sonic going back to being an optional thing for when you get all the Emeralds, but it would be nice if somehow, you could still fight the final boss as him, without it being a forced thing (and no debug mode either ) As long as the final boss wouldn't be a complete cakewalk with Super Sonic, but still a bit easier than fighting it as normal Sonic, I think it'd be a nice little extra reward in addition to being able to blitz through the levels with ease.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Unknown

[Frobman]

Well, I guess he'd be useless if you play him in today's games. Mainly refering to the level designs. If they were to go realistically with it, he'd be far too fast for his own good, that you'd end falling in pits or whatever.

The last levels work better, in that they can offer something different in the gameplay style, like he either flies up and down, or has super deflecting powers, rams at stuff, or whatever. But some of those final levels have been a tad sub par, I suppose.

Now I think about it, he might work better in normal gameplay, if his controlling was too bad, and you can see every pit in the way in the last second (unless he jumps too far and there were multiple pits, and you couldn't control your own landing...). Though that's up to SEGA and the fans. Can either be fun, terrible or a bore.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Ever since Sonic 3 & K, we've seen Super Sonic become the most predictable part in the game series endings. While S3&K allowed you to use Super Sonic outside the final battle, it actually was the beginning of all of this. But it's not like we really cared at that time, because the Doomsday Zone was the most epic thing to come out of the series during the beginning. Now where the magic died from the predictability varies between member to member, I guess mine would start around Heroes.

The lame thing about Super Sonic is his lack of abilities compared to his regular form. When you're super, you're usually stripped down to one or two moves and/or have other moves watered down form what they were while the ordinary Sonic could have well over that many abilities prior to the final story boss.

An example would be Sonic Adventure. Super Sonic's main attack is just to charge straight into Perfect Chaos as fast as you can and then pop out of his head. The homing attack would be absolutely useless if only it weren't for its help in speeding up that charge attack of your's.

And it goes on further. Sonic Adventure 2 took everything away and simply added a dash attack in the direction you wanted to move. Wouldn't say that that was the best battle I've ever played, but the scenery somehow kept me into the battle.

Then came Heroes, which is the only game to allow more than one or two abilites out of the entire series. Only thing about that is that he had two other friends with him to add to those abilities...and Knuckles was the real contender in the whole fight.

Shadow...meh. All you get is the Chaos Spear attack, although if you're Chaos Gauges fill you get an additional Chaos Blast and Chaos Control.

Sonic 06 supers only had three abilities...split between three characters. Sonic's Dash attack was a bland and basic dash attack into the enemy, while Shadow and Silver really worked a good fight with the Super Chaos Spears and the "Shield of light" thing of Silver's.

Sonic Unleashed...I can't really describe this well. You have the dash attack like previous games before it, but after you do a number to Dark Gaia's shield the rest of the fight is nothing but QTEs, which is not and never will be gameplay to me.

Sonic Team really need to rework how to use Super Sonic. These "epic" boss battles stop being so epic after a while.

Edited August 5, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Sean]

I actually thought Unleashed did pretty good at handling the Super Sonic thing (at first), by putting him in the beginning.

What I would like to see is an actual stage devoted to Super Sonic; rather than having a mere boss fight, you plow through Eggman's base for the entire level. While it would be nice to have it be a challenge (like Egg Rock Zone! hyuck hyuck), I think it would be great if it was first and foremost a demonstration of Super Sonic's sheer power. The only time I felt that this was showcased correctly was episode 26 of Sonic X (of all things), in which Super Sonic spent absolutely no time gloating or showing off his powers - he defeats Eggman in two seconds flat, and you don't even get to see it.

That's how I've always wanted to see Super Sonic (aside from the previously mentioned parody status) - a demonstration of godly power and awe. No showing off in some boring cinematic boss fight which we've been having for the past several years.

[Phos]

When I see someone complain that all Super Sonic does is ram, can't help but think of it the same way I would complaining that all a knife does is cut. He's like a little star, what more does he need to do?

I think what's really missing is that you don't really do all that much as Super Sonic. Part if that is because they limit Suprt Sonic to the final boss, but there's also the matter of how basic and broken the fight usually is. In SA 2, all you did was boost towards the lizard and try and dodge some misleading attacks. SA 1's fight was similar, but had better visual feedback. In Heroes, you dodge crap and then beat it by using your team blast, making damage dealing automated. I don't know the specifics of the fight in Shadow, but it looks like you just plink him to death with little

projectiles. Basically, you aren't actually destroying anything, you're just beating something up, usually something that is itself pretty boring in a canned area. I think the ideal opponent for a final Super Sonic fight would be a giant machine of some sort that has a bunch of weapons on different parts of it that you knock off during the battle. Imagine something like a multistage rocket ship that reveals new weapons as you tear off the old ones, such as taking off the rear of a rocket ship to reveal a set of wings with a battery of cannons or something on them. Preferably with lots of explosions and stuff being destroyed.

[Blacklightning]

When I see someone complain that all Super Sonic does is ram, can't help but think of it the same way I would complaining that all a knife does is cut.

Gun-knives are awesome, though.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I think the ideal opponent for a final Super Sonic fight would be a giant machine of some sort that has a bunch of weapons on different parts of it that you knock off during the battle. Imagine something like a multistage rocket ship that reveals new weapons as you tear off the old ones, such as taking off the rear of a rocket ship to reveal a set of wings with a battery of cannons or something on them. Preferably with lots of explosions and stuff being destroyed.

That actually might be pretty fun. Sounds like it would be kind of like an expanded version the opening of Sonic Unleashed where Sonic goes Super and begins tearing through Eggman's space fleet.

[CreamyBagel]

I'd like to see Sonic attempt to turn super using the emeralds only being unable to because the emeralds power has stopped working hence little ol' normal Sonic has to defeat the boss on his lonesome. I think it's about time he got to beat a boss without being Super.

[Sean]

That would be great. Nothing like a good aversion of a well-established clich

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

When I see someone complain that all Super Sonic does is ram, can't help but think of it the same way I would complaining that all a knife does is cut. He's like a little star, what more does he need to do?

He needs to do more than ramming, I'll tell you that much. I've been doing that since Genesis, and it's gotten old.

Regular Sonic can easily ram into foes by running, why not give us something more that really makes his superform Super?

I think the ideal opponent for a final Super Sonic fight would be a giant machine of some sort that has a bunch of weapons on different parts of it that you knock off during the battle. Imagine something like a multistage rocket ship that reveals new weapons as you tear off the old ones, such as taking off the rear of a rocket ship to reveal a set of wings with a battery of cannons or something on them. Preferably with lots of explosions and stuff being destroyed.

That would be a really great boss battle for Super Sonic. But Super Sonic himself needs to step up his game to that of his opponent.

If the enemy uses a variety of attacks, I'd say Super Sonic should too. I actually like games that have multiple ways to defeat a boss than one that only has one way to do it, like Prototype for example. The fights with bosses like the Supreme Hunter have you strategizing how to kill them without getting yourself killed in the process. You have your hands and feet to do the job, weapons crafted from your own body, helicopters you can hijack in mid-ari, and tons of throwable objects to use at your dispense, and although the fight is time consuming they do get your blood rushing because staying in one spot for literally more than two seconds is a death wish...and it gets much more graver when you have a time limit near the end to kill the Hunter and deal with the nuke afterwards.

If a Super Sonic boss fight could deliever that, it would make Super Sonic more worth than what some see him now.

Edited August 5, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[LATER BUDDY]

You know, I personally think a hero would look more super if they can kill the final boss with the power they've had through the whole game instead of turning into a god last moment and doing the job easily.

I personally wish that Sonic turning Superduper would stop. Hell, even throw away the Chaos Emeralds while your at it. I don't really see the plot in Sonic games getting much better when they constantly keep pulling out their over-used Super Hedgehog to finish each game.

I will admit, I did love Super Sonic being in the beginning of Unleashed, but wrapping up with him again gave the me the feeling "really? again?". Out of all Super Sonic fights though, I really did like the speed of him flying around Dark Gaia's force field thing.

-Blur

[Chaos Member]

Super Sonic is the farthest thing from useless. It's true that he does only appear in the final boss of most games, but he's like Sonic's "back-up" plan. Making him needed when the going gets tough, he goes *Super*.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Super Sonic is the farthest thing from useless. It's true that he does only appear in the final boss of most games, but he's like Sonic's "back-up" plan. Making him needed when the going gets tough, he goes *Super*.

So, like the Megazord for the Power Rangers.

[Phos]

He needs to do more than ramming, I'll tell you that much. I've been doing that since Genesis, and it's gotten old.

Regular Sonic can easily ram into foes by running, why not give us something more that really makes his superform Super?

What's he going to do, Punch stuff? That's just ramming fist first. Unlike Alex Mercer, He's basically a tiny star, and contact with his enemy will do. He never does anything else because he has no need to.

So, like the Megazord for the Power Rangers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FnAcPmza1U

[Rusty Spy]

Really, I don't see what's wrong with just ramming into things. You don't need to have a huge and varied move set to be effective. It's all about execution.

[Blacklightning]

What's he going to do, Punch stuff? That's just ramming fist first. Unlike Alex Mercer, He's basically a tiny star, and contact with his enemy will do. He never does anything else because he has no need to.

Really, I don't see what's wrong with just ramming into things. You don't need to have a huge and varied move set to be effective. It's all about execution.

Quite frankly, if people can complain about standard Sonic doing the exact same thing with the boost move in various games, I don't see how slapping a yellow skin and a few glow effects over it will make it any better. The issue isn't so much that it isn't in-character or whatever similar excuse people might use, moreso that in practice it's boring as shit and really doesn't lend you the feeling you should get from an omnipotent boost like a Super form. If anything it just give the impression that everyone else got weaker to the point that all the enemies are made of breadsticks and glue that will fall to pieces if you so much as nudge them.

I'm certaintly not trying to say either form needs a "huge and varied moveset" (even if I'd like that personally) - it's just that even as far as Sonic games go, finishing levels by running into everything is incredibly basic and mind-numbing. A few opportunities to throw in a ridiculously over-the-top move or two certaintly wouldn't kill them, even if it's a generic screen clearer or Darkspines-esque combo of pwnage. Come to think of it, revisiting bosses with Super Sonic in the same way as Fierce Deity Link in Majora's Mask for alternate completion methods and finishes doesn't sound like a bad idea.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

What's he going to do, Punch stuff? That's just ramming fist first.

Is punching really the only thing out there, Phos? I'm just sayin'.

Unlike Alex Mercer, He's basically a tiny star, and contact with his enemy will do. He never does anything else because he has no need to.

Also unlike Alex Mercer, he's less fun to play because he doesn't have enough abilities to keep you into the game.

He's already a tiny star as regular Sonic with Unleashed's boost feature around, only further making Super Sonic useless.

Alex on the other hand has a variety of abilites instead of a few, and while he may not be able to do an instant kill simply by contact, he has well more than what Super Sonic to have me come right back to the game after beating it.

The Genesis games were designed around few buttons, I can understand that. But to apply that into a 3D world involves a whole lot more to it, and ramming isn't going to cut anymore. I wouldn't saying to use Prototype's features just to make the Super Sonic more complex, but rather as an example to make something more than what it is. Regardless if he's a star or not, I would expect a lot more than merely ramming into foes after nearly 2 decades.

Edited August 6, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Blazey Firekitty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FnAcPmza1U

I can't believe that didn't occur to me. Megazord sequence has been issued!

[Phos]

Quite frankly, if people can complain about standard Sonic doing the exact same thing with the boost move in various games, I don't see how slapping a yellow skin and a few glow effects over it will make it any better. The issue isn't so much that it isn't in-character or whatever similar excuse people might use, moreso that in practice it's boring as shit and really doesn't lend you the feeling you should get from an omnipotent boost like a Super form. If anything it just give the impression that everyone else got weaker to the point that all the enemies are made of breadsticks and glue that will fall to pieces if you so much as nudge them.

Super Sonic ramming != boost.

Super Sonic ramming = regular movement.

Is punching really the only thing out there, Phos? I'm just sayin'.

He's got a head, two arms and two legs. It's either punch (ramming fist first), kick (ramming foot first) or headbutt (ramming head first).

Also unlike Alex Mercer, he's less fun to play because he doesn't have enough abilities to keep you into the game.

He's already a tiny star as regular Sonic with Unleashed's boost feature around, only further making Super Sonic useless.

Are you really going to try and use that argument against me? Isn't there something I've been saying for months that makes this argument fall flat?

The boost was a terrible idea in the first place

Alex on the other hand has a variety of abilites instead of a few, and while he may not be able to do an instant kill simply by contact, he has well more than what Super Sonic to have me come right back to the game after beating it.

The Genesis games were designed around few buttons, I can understand that. But to apply that into a 3D world involves a whole lot more to it, and ramming isn't going to cut anymore. I wouldn't saying to use Prototype's features just to make the Super Sonic more complex, but rather as an example to make something more than what it is. Regardless if he's a star or not, I would expect a lot more than merely ramming into foes after nearly 2 decades.

Because Goht is probably the best boss in any Zelda game ever, and that's basically all you do to him. What's also funny about this example is that he sometimes falls down and you have to punch him (Doing something other than ramming). It's obviously much more clunky than the part where you just have to ram it.

[Diogenes]

He's got a head, two arms and two legs. It's either punch (ramming fist first), kick (ramming foot first) or headbutt (ramming head first).

I kind of like what the Rushes did with reflecting the boss's attacks back. It needs some refinement, but I still find it more fun than, say, Doomsday or the Finalhazard.

[Blacklightning]

Super Sonic ramming != boost.

Super Sonic ramming = regular movement.

That doesn't change a thing. All the same, it's still running into people to kill them, and still just the same, it's boring. The only real difference is that the latter can be done at much lower speeds, which if anything makes it even more underwhelming. What exactly is it you're trying to prove here? Edited August 8, 2009 by Blacklightning

[Phos]

That doesn't change a thing. All the same, it's still running into people to kill them, and still just the same, it's boring. The only real difference is that the latter can be done at much lower speeds, which if anything makes it even more underwhelming. What exactly is it you're trying to prove here?

I actually enjoy playing as an unstoppable force 'o nature. Super Sonic is basically the only place in video games that allows you to sustain that for a long length of time.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

He's got a head, two arms and two legs.

So do I, and I can punch and headbutt breadsticks without any chaos emeralds.

It's either punch (ramming fist first), kick (ramming foot first) or headbutt (ramming head first).

If the character I'm playing has the power of seven Chaos Emeralds that grant their user nearly unlimited power, I expect to do more than three simple moves that can be done without any power boost whatsoever.

Aren't we talking about Super Sonic here. How is punching, kicking and headbutting super we he can already do that in regular form. If that's all there is for him, then Super Sonic is absolutely worthless.

Are you really going to try and use that argument against me? Isn't there something I've been saying for months that makes this argument fall flat?

The boost was a terrible idea in the first place

And yet that's just about all that Super Sonic really does for the most part: boost. It's no different than Sonic boosting in regular form, only differences is that he doesn't take any damage.

After 17 years, yes I am.

Because Goht is probably the best boss in any Zelda game ever, and that's basically all you do to him.

That's great, now how about a 3D Sonic game where you play as the supposedly all-mighty Super Sonic?

Edited August 9, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

So do I, and I can punch and headbutt breadsticks without any chaos emeralds.

That's not a reasonable comparison, Super Sonic can do it versus a *blank* and probably win.

If the character I'm playing has the power of seven Chaos Emeralds that grant their user nearly unlimited power, I expect to do more than three simple moves that can be done without any power boost whatsoever.

Aren't we talking about Super Sonic here. How is punching, kicking and headbutting super we he can already do that in regular form. If that's all there is for him, then Super Sonic is absolutely worthless.

I can't shake the feeling that you're forgetting that Super Sonic encounters about twenty enemies in each level, and that the real deal with him is his invulnrability to hazards and increased mobility.

That's great, now how about a 3D Sonic game where you play as the supposedly all-mighty Super Sonic?

Hasn't been made yet.

[LATER BUDDY]

You know, it's funny that Sonic, the cockiest asshole to step foot in a video game, can have the power to automatically be the best at anything he does, XD.

I still think that Super Sonic should just be dropped for at least one canon game. I really just want to see what happens. Maybe the plot won't be so predictable for a change. I know when you think of a good Sonic game, the plot isn't the main thing you are worrying about, but for once I'd love to see a very well made story that does with out Super Sonic the Godhog. His role in every story bugs me just as much as superfuck power he has.

Just my opinion though. I'm one of those guys that doesn't like the super hero Superman. Heroes with hardly a weakness don't appeal to me at all, D=.

-Blur