Zelda @ E3 2016(And other stuff too I guess?)

[Mogtaki]

There's rumours floating around (and an image that could be fake) that there's going to be a "female Link"...but god damn, I hope to hell that it's not a female Link.

A female Link would just be incredibly lazy. A skin swap. If there really is going to be a female Link, please can it be Zelda? To play as Zelda would be the first time since that third party Zelda game 'Zelda's Adventure' (not counting Hyrule Warriors).

Oh man, if they do that AND add being able to play as Ganondorf, that'd be frickin rad.

[Marcello]

I feel the opposite. I feel having Zelda be playable over female Link is a cop-out. Link is the hero, not Zelda. The hero should be able to be a boy or a girl. Link is supposed to be an avatar for the player, while Zelda is an actual character. And if Link is an avatar, he should also be able to be female.

Zelda is unrealistic, too. If the girl is Zelda you need to give her a different story than Link.

Post is a bit disjointed, but, whatever, I'm tired xP

[Mogtaki]

After many Zelda games and many different Links, he doesn't feel like an avatar anymore. If I wanted gender options there is always other RPG games like Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls game where the character isn't tied to legend that banks on many other incarnations. Link has had a personality for many games over now and to do a gender swap just doesn't feel right. Playing as the legend herself instead of having her as a figure who is becoming less and less of a token you've got to save would feel pretty cool and different. A gender swap just feels like they're trying to blend in with other sandbox RPGs and forgetting that Link is an icon like Mario and Sonic.

I also forgot to mention: yes I would want a different storyline if Zelda was ever going to be playable. Maybe you'd meet Link at some points for fights against bosses etc? You know, kind of like what Hyrule Warriors did.

[Indigo Rush]

I am pleased to announce that Zelda Wii U and NX is now being co-developed by Bethesda

Spoiler

lol

 

[Sean]

I would love a female Link but I don't think Zelda Wii U is going to have it.

I also would enjoy playing as Zelda too. I kinda want both at some point tbh

[Chris Knopps]

The problem is Link is a set character, he's not merely an avatar like people like to pretend. He has been a male for 30 years and the character has always revolved around a heterosexual relationship with Zelda and several other females throughout the timeline.

To make him both a male and a female would turn him into a soulless avatar, and not only that, it would complicate how the story is written, essentially needing the entire game to have a separate story for both versions of the character to avoid any issues with those as of yet still uncomfortable with such content.

If the franchise had started out in such a manner that would've been a different story, but if Hyrule Warriors proves anything is that the openness to a female character is there, but definitely not a female Link, an equivalent of sorts, but not exactly that.

Put it this way, would you turn Samus into a man just because folks so command it? Because it makes men feel left out and defines inequality between gamer sexes?

Both characters have a similar mute existence, save for later titles with Samus, and both began as their own distinctive gender, and thus both should remain that way.

[Marcello]

There's only one Samus. There are various Links.

[shdowhunt60]

5 minutes ago, Marcello said:

There's only one Samus. There are various Links.

If anything that just goes to show how Link has no identity or personality, and is therefore disposable. So at that point, why not give the player the ability to make him purple? :v

[Marcello]

Just now, shdowhunt60 said:

If anything that just goes to show how Link has no identity or personality, and is therefore disposable. So at that point, why not give the player the ability to make him purple? :v

I'm for the choice between male and female Link.

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, Marcello said:

I'm for the choice between male and female Link.

I know. And I'm saying, Link is so flat and boring that the player should just do whatever they want with him. If Link had an actual personality or identity, then it's contradictory to let the player play around with it.

[Marcello]

I'm also for in-game customization similar to Fable. If purple body paint is part of that, that's fine.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

He has been a male for 30 years and the character has always revolved around a heterosexual relationship with Zelda and several other females throughout the timeline.

Zelda games are actually pretty light on romance. It's implied sometimes, but it's rarely made explicit, and it's even more rarely actually essential to the story.

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To make him both a male and a female would turn him into a soulless avatar,

How in the hell is this the case? Whether male or female most things would be the same; Link would still be brave, strong, clever, caring, probably kind of a doof at times, etc etc like always. The few things that would be different would just define two slightly different Links, not make them soulless.

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 and not only that, it would complicate how the story is written, essentially needing the entire game to have a separate story for both versions of the character to avoid any issues with those as of yet still uncomfortable with such content.

Even if they wanted to avoid making any characters gay or bi, all they would have to do is write a story that doesn't hinge on a romantic relationship, and write two versions of a couple of lines of dialogue wherever the issue does come up. It's not even close to needing to write two entirely separate stories.

Also it'd be better for them to just give no shits about bigots and include some non-straight characters anyway.

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Put it this way, would you turn Samus into a man just because folks so command it? Because it makes men feel left out and defines inequality between gamer sexes?

Like Marcello said, this isn't a fair comparison because there isn't a lineage of Samuses the way there are Links. If the Metroid series was about a bunch of different people getting Chozo armor and becoming space bounty hunters, I wouldn't have complaints about a gender choice.

 

4 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

 If Link had an actual personality or identity, then it's contradictory to let the player play around with it.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Even with a character with an established identity, there's still room for a player to play around within those bounds.

[Chris Knopps]

One point I'm making is we are in a world where it's becoming hinted more and more that a male is useless without a female version of him coexisting, hence almost every single superhero, the whole Ghostbusters fiasco, etc.

And we're in a world where anything lacking a prominent female presence is borderline illegal/taboo in the mindset of various groups.

However, the thing to keep in mind is that many people want to enjoy what things are, the way they've always been, without this type of character warping for the sake of meeting agendas and such.

Female characters... Bayonetta, Wonder Woman, Samus, that Tomb Raider chick, those are good. All established characters that began their distinctive gender and have remained said gender. Great women who I adore.

But male characters forced into having a female clone of sorts at every single turn in media nowadays? That is ludicrously dictatorial.

[Diogenes]

29 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

One point I'm making is we are in a world where it's becoming hinted more and more that a male is useless without a female version of him coexisting, hence almost every single superhero, the whole Ghostbusters fiasco, etc.

Nope.

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And we're in a world where anything lacking a prominent female presence is borderline illegal/taboo in the mindset of various groups.

Leaving out a group that makes up about half the population of the planet is pretty weird, yes.

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However, the thing to keep in mind is that many people want to enjoy what things are, the way they've always been, without this type of character warping for the sake of meeting agendas and such.

Yes, many of the people currently being catered to want to continue being catered to, at the expense of others. Doesn't mean anyone should give a shit.

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But male characters forced into having a female clone of sorts at every single turn in media nowadays? That is ludicrously dictatorial.

"Forced", as if those dastardly feminists/SJWs are holding a gun to Nintendo's head. You ever think they might just decide it's a good idea?

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Nope.

Leaving out a group that makes up about half the population of the planet is pretty weird, yes.

Yes, many of the people currently being catered to want to continue being catered to, at the expense of others. Doesn't mean anyone should give a shit.

"Forced", as if those dastardly feminists/SJWs are holding a gun to Nintendo's head. You ever think they might just decide it's a good idea?

Essentially they are in a metaphorical way.

And no, no I do not whatsoever, I think it's nothing more than blatant pandering to crowds who get said thing more than enough, too much actually.

[Diogenes]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Essentially they are in a metaphorical way.

Fucking christ, man, you could not be more full of bullshit. What's the metaphorical gun here? Some people maybe not buying the game if it doesn't happen? Because that's literally all that's going on.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Fucking christ, man, you could not be more full of bullshit. What's the metaphorical gun here? Some people maybe not buying the game if it doesn't happen? Because that's literally all that's going on.

All of the posts people make, the articles and such, videos, etc is what I'm referring to.

My point is not everything needs to be woman centric, nor should it ever as we have more than enough of that focus today. You've got plenty of franchises in movies, television, games, comics, etc featuring women as the prominent characters, meanwhile any and everything featuring prominent men are continuously being given backlash for the sake of forcing women into any and everything possible.

And lets not forget it has to be done precisely in the manner others want it, giving content creators little to no freedom and garnering backlash for every misstep taken.

I will repeat what I've said, it's nothing short of ludicrous dictation.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

lol no one is advocating for forcing women into anything. and games with prominent male protagonists do get praised so yeah. all people want is for women in games to be treated like human beings, not for the video game version of affirmative action. 

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

lol no one is advocating for forcing women into anything. and games with prominent male protagonists do get praised so yeah. all people want is for women in games to be treated like human beings, not for the video game version of affirmative action. 

A female Link is a topic of demanding affirmative action. A female Link is exactly what people are trying to force.

Not having a female link does not equal abuse/mistreatment towards women, it's the exact opposite because of various groups trying to pulverize their way into getting what they want through blatant aggravation.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Not having a female link does not equal abuse/mistreatment towards women,

Literally no one on this planet has claimed that it was. If you want to have a sensible discussion of this, you need to join us in the real world.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Literally no one on this planet has claimed that it was. If you want to have a sensible discussion of this, you need to join us in the real world.

all people want is for women in games to be treated like human beings, not for the video game version of affirmative action. 

I suggest reading a conversation carefully before responding to one. I was responding to this line in regards to the suggestion not having a female Link was somehow suddenly unfair/abusive.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

A female Link is a topic of demanding affirmative action. A female Link is exactly what people are trying to force.

Not having a female link does not equal abuse/mistreatment towards women, it's the exact opposite because of various groups trying to pulverize their way into getting what they want through blatant aggravation.

But no one is trying to force it. To be honest, I haven't seen many people want a female Link, some wanted to play as Zelda yes but others wanted them to stop the whole save the princess narrative. Them adding a female Link is a choice made by the developers to add verity into the game so that female players can feel that they are heroes as well.

Oh and Linkle is her own character, not a female link.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

But no one is trying to force it. To be honest, I haven't seen many people want a female Link, some wanted to play as Zelda yes but others wanted them to stop the whole save the princess narrative. Them adding a female Link is a choice made by the developers to add verity into the game so that female players can feel that they are heroes as well.

Oh and Linkle is her own character, not a female link.

Get into the Zelda communities more often.

It's not about saving the princess, more often than not Zelda helps in defeating the evil in various ways throughout the games, this is not Mario.

They've already felt that way for 30 years by playing a male link just fine. It's only SJW's and feminists making a political war over the matter.

Big duh on that last part.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

all people want is for women in games to be treated like human beings, not for the video game version of affirmative action. 

I suggest reading a conversation carefully before responding to one. I was responding to this line in regards to the suggestion not having a female Link was somehow suddenly unfair/abusive.

no sir, you need to do the same yourself. i never was saying that no having a female link was mistreatment to women. i was saying that people wanted women to be treated like human beings. how did anyone get "this is mistreatment" from wanting them to be human beings?

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

no sir, you need to do the same yourself. i never was saying that no having a female link was mistreatment to women. i was saying that people wanted women to be treated like human beings. how did anyone get "this is mistreatment" from wanting them to be human beings?

Then why the hell did you bring up women being mistreated in a conversation about female Link? That's completely irrelevant to the conversation then if you weren't using that as a reason/excuse for female Link.

Women are treated like human beings more often than not, the issue is a lack of accepting it and a continuous strive for domination over men.

Equality todays world does not scream, it's two genders trying to butt heads endlessly and senselessly.

I'm just sick of female Link popping up everywhere. It's as ridiculous as talking about a male Samus. Both offer the same level of entertainment and depth for both genders without warping them into another gender. Always have, always will.