Crash Bandicoot: N-Sane Trilogy (2017)

[TheOcelot]

45 minutes ago, Hyp3hat said:

A remaster of Crash is almost certainly to gauge interest in whether the markets there, and it's less risky than just making a new Crash game. 

My thoughts exactly. Release a remastered version of the trilogy and see it if sells well. Likewise they can see how Crash appeals to both an old and new generation of gamers by adding him to Skylanders. If Activision see a profitable market then maybe a new game is on the cards.

I do wish they had revealed more about the remake/remaster at E3. If you want to get gamers interested then at least a few screenshots wouldn't do any harm. We know it's coming in 2017. So not too long to wait ........I hope.

I'm happy to get a remaster of the original games to begin with. I expect we'll have access to the original trilogy via PS4 when they start releasing backwards compatible PS1 games. So it would be interesting to see how different the remastered versions with be compared to the originals.

Considering Activision still own the IP I'm impressed Naughty Dog were able to come to an agreement to using the stage from Crash 1 in Uncharted 4. My guess is that Sony stepped in (having already partnered with Activision) to make it happen. If you remember a year of so ago; Naughty Dog wanted to use some concept art from the originally trilogy in some kind of art presentation but Activision said no. I'm guessing a deal with Sony and Activision hadn't been agreed at that point.

[Tornado]

58 minutes ago, Ming Ming Kanon said:

Haha, no. Don't start twisting things in your favor. The original argument here is how many posts mentioned anything about the Ratchet remake. So yes, I set the record straight there.

Nope. The original argument, which apparently was supposed to justify the poorly informed lectures you're giving everyone, was this:

6 hours ago, Ming Ming Kanon said:

People here are comparing these remasters to R&C PS4, which is a full on remake (or what Indigo said "re-imagining the game")

"People here" so far means "two people", because Hyp3hat's post that said "I'd be very surprised if they R&C'd it, I don't think that's likely at all"  isn't making that comparison you were talking about. He was fucking agreeing with you, for Christ's sake; and you're trying to use that as proof of anything?

 

 

 

I do notice that your post was pretty conspicuous with its lack of other examples, though. You gonna get that taken care of; or was that the only tenuous way you can justify your attempt at a diversion?

 

Quote

LOL. So if that's the truth, how does that equal I'm dishonest?

Because you're intentionally misrepresenting what people have been saying to you because it gives you a basis to claim you were right. I say the PS4 version is a warmed over port of the 2012 PC release. Hyp3hat says it's a port of the Steam version with cheats. You argue on the basis that we claimed they were "straight ports" of the 2012 version, and now you're even claiming that I said it was a port of the 1998 release.

Quote

Do you know what the definition means?

Quote

When one avoids an honest, deliberate and comprehensive approach to a matter because it may introduce an adverse effect on personally and professionally held views and beliefs.

Fits pretty well.

 

Quote

A lot of things has changed between the 2012 and 1998 PC releases, so it's not just a "very mildly warmed over port" as you put it. 

I see this is still an issue you need to work on. I didn't say the PS4 version was a port of the 1998 version, so no. That's not "as I put it".

Quote

Woooow. So you are NSA spying on me on what I do. How do you know that I found that information from FF Wikia? (which I haven't visited for months) How do you know that it's because I actually played the games myself? Stop making pathetic assumptions on me please.

Because all of your posts in this thread so far read like, and continue to read like, someone who is talking out of their ass; and keeps pushing goal posts to try and find something to sound like you were right all along.

Quote

Well putting aside the FFVII comparison,

Quote

here's what we got:

• A 10 second announcement of the remake, with nothing to show. Not even concept art.
• All three games will be released next year. I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter how good you are, you cannot release THREE remake games "from the ground up" with new Ratchet-like graphics in a year. Unless you want it to be another Sonic '06 rushed job. But say that they have keeping this under wrap for years. Why didn't they show a live demo or ANYTHING.
• Activision VV are the ones developing the game. But 90% (if not 100) of their team are focusing on the upcoming Skylanders game right now. So that's even LESS time to develop the remake of the THREE games.
• Uncharted 4 has a Crash demo with new/altered animations which is believe that is the demo of the upcoming remaster.

Well I guess that's what they mean from the ground up. It's not gonna be new graphics, but the coding will be done from the ground up.

Ah. So assumptions, circumstantial "evidence" and bad comparisons is what led you to know and insist what these three games will end up being.

[CrashRatchetFan]

Insider "Enter the Dragon Punch" who has leaked all kinds of MS and Sony shit accurately (He predicted RE7 being announced AND being VR, among like 30 other things yesterday). Says there's a new game behind the remaster/remakes and being done by Sony Japan believe it or not.

After last night's stuff, I'll go by his word. 

[TCB]

Don't know about y'all but I just had a chuckle realizing these three games' remastering/remake/whatever are gonna come out a year after the twentieth anniversary of the franchise

[Milo]

2 hours ago, Hyp3hat said:

The 3D platformer is essentially dead, and was dying during the last generation -  you said it yourself that Sly sold poorly, but Rayman sputtered to a halt because every other Ubisoft IP sells better (the less said about those rabbids, the better), Crash went mobile, Banjo went kart racing, Spyro and LEGO went Toys2Life.... Outside of Nintendo, only Sonic and LEGO has kept it selling, and the genre is only now getting its indie resurgence.

I mean, you can see how poorly the genre did from the PS2 to now due to the mass indifference to the Ratchet movie - people here are pointing to that as a harbinger of doom for the Sonic movie, but the honest truth is that R&C had nowhere near the impact that Sonic did, and still does. There's just no mass nostalgic groundswell for platformers of that generation. Anecdata time, but I do not recall hearing about Jak or Ratchet at all during that time - the culture changed, and the games struggled to keep up.

So back to the point - publishers are understandably wary of releasing a new 3D platformer, as ShootyBangBang With A Double Jump: Post Modern Warfare is where the bucks are. The only platformers currently around are Toys2Life, as you can pump more money out of that. A remaster of Crash is almost certainly to gauge interest in whether the markets there, and it's less risky than just making a new Crash game. 

I can't really agree because I don't think the situation with 3D platformers is as clear cut as you're suggesting. A fair amount of the IPs you mentioned weren't well-received in some instances, and in terms of the genre, actually shifted away from traditional 3D platforming with their final entries before going dark.

Jak and Daxter became more inspired by Western sandbox games of the era with its sequels (adding weapons and vehicles, and going for a more open-world style), and did it with a much darker tone, narrative, and presentation to boot. It's worth pointing out both of the sequels actually sold significantly worse than the first title despite generally being well-received by reviewers (both sequels barely managed over one million, the first game did 4 million in comparison).

Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, tossed out the preceding collect-a-thon gameplay of the past two games entirely for building and operating vehicles. Not even just a shift, it completely threw out the gameplay of the past two games, and with a few condescending jabs to fans of the original on top of that. In that context, it's not too surprising that the game flopped in sales compared to the first two games despite great reviews (with Kazooie doing over 1 million and Tooie doing over 3 million).

While Rayman hasn't gotten a new 3D game yet, he has been effectively screwed over by Ubisoft on both chances he got. Origins was dumped with minimal promotional materials (AC: Revelations and The Black Eyes Peas Experience were released around the same time and got more marketing materials); and Legends had the entire clusterfrak of being a Wii U exclusive delayed for half a year to be multiplatform and being released along high-profile titles (one of them being GTA V...).

The Ratchet and Clank movie didn't get massive indifference (just) because the genre was unpopular, that film was also received with poor reviews from critics and some fans of the original games, and that was also a relatively low-budget project with invisible advertising. It was produced by Rainmaker, who's past films are chiefly direct-to-video work (it's been said they actually used models from the R&C remake game for their film), and it had a very limited release and had a relatively small marketing campaign. It's no Angry Birds Movie or Assassin's Creed. And speaking of which, the Ratchet and Clank tie-in remake has reportedly doing relatively great in sales (in spite of the movie, even)--it's actually been said to be selling better than past games.

Maybe in a broader theoretical approach, starting out with a Crash remaster and than a sequel might be great; but given how the "remaster, than sequel" approach has gone in the past and in the context of how past 3D platformers were received, I don't really think this approach is the best option for bringing the Crash series back, let alone the (seemingly) only viable one.

[Jango]

57 minutes ago, CrashRatchetFan said:

Insider "Enter the Dragon Punch" who has leaked all kinds of MS and Sony shit accurately (He predicted RE7 being announced AND being VR, among like 30 other things yesterday). Says there's a new game behind the remaster/remakes and being done by Sony Japan believe it or not.

After last night's stuff, I'll go by his word. 

Oh my... There's so much going on. Does anyone tried to reach the musicians Mark and Josh, the VA Lex Lang, maybe even Charles Zembillas or Joe Pearson?

Did Andy Gavin or Jason Rubin saw this already?

Also, Josh Mancell recently made a playlist with a lot of Crash music he composed back in the day. Some of them sounds like high quality versions of the ones that got into the console release, with way more instruments and dept to it!

[CrashRatchetFan]

Just now, Jango said:

Oh my... There's so much going on. Does anyone tried to reach the musicians Mark and Josh, the VA Lex Lang, maybe even Charles Zembillas or Joe Pearson?

Did Andy Gavin or Jason Rubin saw this already?

Jason did, you can check his Twitter. Dunno about Andy.

It's testing the waters so as to bring Crash back in a full game. Take BruceLeeRoy's word for it since he knew about this Day 1.

Also @Jango, I made that Pacha edit JUST for this occasion! Looks good on you. How'd you find it? 

[Jango]

Okay, so, I did a little research and YEAH, Josh Mancell not only saw the reveal yesterday, he made a post about it on his Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/music-by-Josh-Mancell-106760029361776/

Quote

Here's an orchestrated arrangement/performance of my theme for Crash Bandicoot: Warped… I'm not sure how music will be addressed on the "remastered" CB titles yet. Thanks for all the support~

 

Like if this wasn't enough, of course someone already asked him if he's involved with the remastered collection, to which he gave this response:

Quote

Random guy: Ok, time for the important question. Are you involved in the just confirmed remakes of the first 3 Crash Bandicoot titles?

Josh: haven't spoken to anyone as of yet.

He liked the comments of people wishing for his return.

You can see that Josh is still a big fan of Crash and Jak & Daxter, I'm sure he would return to compose or remix more music if Activision and VV asks nicely. SO DON'T FUCK THIS UP, ACTI!

 

[Tara]

2 hours ago, CrashRatchetFan said:

Insider "Enter the Dragon Punch" who has leaked all kinds of MS and Sony shit accurately (He predicted RE7 being announced AND being VR, among like 30 other things yesterday). Says there's a new game behind the remaster/remakes and being done by Sony Japan believe it or not.

After last night's stuff, I'll go by his word. 

I want to believe.  Here's hoping he's right.

[CrashRatchetFan]

6 minutes ago, Tara said:

I want to believe.  Here's hoping he's right.

I'll believe him. After all, who would've thought that Insommiac of all people who be the ones behind making a Spider-Man game? 

Crazy shit happening this generation. 

[Shiny Gems]

2 hours ago, CrashRatchetFan said:

Insider "Enter the Dragon Punch" who has leaked all kinds of MS and Sony shit accurately (He predicted RE7 being announced AND being VR, among like 30 other things yesterday). Says there's a new game behind the remaster/remakes and being done by Sony Japan believe it or not.

After last night's stuff, I'll go by his word. 

You mean a new, actual game is in the works for Crash? Alright!

[CrashRatchetFan]

32 minutes ago, Flamerstreak said:

You mean a new, actual game is in the works for Crash? Alright!

Possibly. The guy was pretty accurate with what was leaked. That said, considering they're taking a risk with all of this, we're not out of the woods yet... But if the new games are commercially successful, it will mean a bright new future for the series.

[Graystripe2000]

GAME is taking pre-orders in the UK, http://www.game.co.uk/en/games/crash-bandicoot-remastered/ ?cm_mmc=Twitter-_-Digital-_-CrashBandicootPS4-_-E32016

[DaddlerTheDalek]

26 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

GAME is taking pre-orders in the UK, http://www.game.co.uk/en/games/crash-bandicoot-remastered/ ?cm_mmc=Twitter-_-Digital-_-CrashBandicootPS4-_-E32016

Is this a remastered version of the first crash game, a remastered version of the the PSone trilogy, or a remake?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

18 minutes ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

Is this a remastered version of the first crash game, a remastered version of the the PSone trilogy, or a remake?

I think it's definitely a remake now. You don't give a physical copy of a PS1 remaster. It would've been released digitally overwise.

 

[Boomer]

Just now, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I think it's definitely a remake now. You don't give a physical copy of a PS1 remaster. It would've been released digitally overwise.

 

Yeah, that's what makes me believe it too. The file size of a remaster wouldn't be worth putting to disc.

[CrashRatchetFan]

Seeing as how this is being handled by Vicarious Visions, I can't see this being a simple "remastering."

They can't just port the games like that. Not only is the architecture completely different now, but all 3 games are coded in Andy Gavin's GOOL, which only he truly know how to work with. Plus a lot of other technical details that are just too hard to program on today's technology. 

If they're going to recreate the games (which seems like the likelihood), I doubt they'd stop at "exactly the same graphics and gameplay but in HD". And before you suggest emulators, remember that this is, according to Sony, being done from the ground up.

All signs point to this being an all-new thing.

[TheOcelot]

So; A remake of the trilogy from the ground up, rumour of a new game and a possible leaked screenshot as per one of Jango's earlier posts. Well I think's it's been a pretty good E3! Crash is back and I'm looking forward to it!

Do you think Crash's new design as shown in the Skylanders trailer could be what Vicarious Visions will use for the remakes?

 

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

5 hours ago, Tornado said:

Because you're intentionally misrepresenting what people have been saying to you because it gives you a basis to claim you were right. I say the PS4 version is a warmed over port of the 2012 PC release. Hyp3hat says it's a port of the Steam version with cheats. You argue on the basis that we claimed they were "straight ports" of the 2012 version, and now you're even claiming that I said it was a port of the 1998 release.

Fits pretty well.

This is what I saw in one of your posts:

"Why, that's fantastic. But... uh...

Those statements, and indeed the entire point of bringing up the FFVII PS4 port as a comparison for what we should assume these Crash games must be like, is if you are completely ignorant of the fact that the FFVII on the PS4 is a port of the PC version Square originally made nearly 20 years ago"

Then you edited your post later with...

"Those statements, and indeed the entire point of bringing up the FFVII PS4 port as a comparison for what we should assume these Crash games must be like, can only really apply to this conversation if you are completely ignorant of the fact that the FFVII on the PS4 is a port of the patched rerelease of the "enhanced" PC version Square originally made nearly 20 years ago."

I didn't see your edit until now. It's not my fault you made this error, threw me off thinking all this time you were talking about the 1998 release, and not telling me that you edited the post. So screw you calling me dishonest. In fact, if anything you're the one being dishonest.

5 hours ago, Tornado said:

Because all of your posts in this thread so far read like, and continue to read like, someone who is talking out of their ass; and keeps pushing goal posts to try and find something to sound like you were right all along.

So? Who the hell are you to say I looked up at some Wikia for information?

 

5 hours ago, Tornado said:

Ah. So assumptions, circumstantial "evidence" and bad comparisons is what led you to know and insist what these three games will end up being.

I'll tell you what. I'll change my name to Dishonest Ming Ming for a month, if these games turn out to be actual Ratchet-like remakes. That's how confident I am.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

49 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I think it's definitely a remake now. You don't give a physical copy of a PS1 remaster. It would've been released digitally overwise.

 

Take Game.co.uk E3 2016 preorders as a pinch of salt. If you look at their E3 2016 page, almost all games announced during E3 has been listed there. Including Halo Wars 2 PC, which most likely won't see disc release. Also is FFXV: VR Experience a separate edition? It's listed there as if it's an edition. Same with Star Wars: Battlefront VR.

[Tornado]

1 hour ago, Ming Ming Kanon said:

I didn't see your edit until now. It's not my fault you made this error, threw me off thinking all this time you were talking about the 1998 release, and not telling me that you edited the post. So screw you calling me dishonest.

Bullshit. Even in this "explanation," you're being disingenuous, since my original post on the matter, which you responded to and quoted:

13 hours ago, Tornado said:

It's a very mildly warmed over port of the bugfixed rerelease of the PC version they originally made in 1998

In the post immediately after the edit that apparently was the only thing you've read so far, I referenced and quoted that same post and Hyp3hat's similar post and explained why I called you intellectually dishonest when you got defensive. In that same post I reiterated that what was being talked about all along was the 2012 version:

9 hours ago, Tornado said:

Though since all of the people who said it was a port of the PC version specifically mentioned that it was a port of the 2012 PC version, congratulations at again arguing against a point no one expressed.

Then in the same post I explained what is almost certainly the entire development history of the PS4 port of FFVII as it compared to what Vicarious Visions will have to do to get Crash running on PS4:

9 hours ago, Tornado said:

You don't see the difference between that and Square porting the updated x86 version of a game that they had already converted to x86 back in 1998 to yet another x86 platform? You don't see the difference between a game that has already had several versions worth of updates and tweaks already getting ported with a couple more to a new system, to a game that has one version that hasn't been touched since it was first released that would have to be reprogrammed to get to work on the PS4 unless they just emulated it?

Then I explained in a third post that I was not talking about Square directly porting the 1998 version of the PC game, and reference Hyp3hat's similar post once again:

7 hours ago, Tornado said:

I say the PS4 version is a warmed over port of the 2012 PC release. Hyp3hat says it's a port of the Steam version with cheats

Even if, for whatever reason, you decided that the only post you were going to actually read was the one where I made a mistake and went back and fixed it ASAP, by now there is no excuse whatsoever for you to continue assuming that I'm claiming that Square took their Final Fantasy PC 1998 source code and just recompiled it with the PS4 dev kit. But I can't even give you the benefit of the doubt that much, since after my initial post on the matter instead of arguing from the start like I claimed it was a straight port of the 1998 PC version you acted like I claimed it was a port of the PS1 version:

12 hours ago, Ming Ming Kanon said:

If they upgraded the PS1 graphics, upgraded the look of the assets, added small features, fixed a few things and remastered the music, then it's not really a port of the PS1 version.

 

If you don't want people to to call you dishonest, stop being dishonest.

 

 

Quote

So? Who the hell are you to say I looked up at some Wikia for information?

I'm someone who doesn't think you have any idea what you are talking about, but notes how much you are in a rush to sound clever anyway.

 

 

My memory is generally pretty poor, and the forum name change feature doesn't help, but I'm still pretty sure this isn't the first occurrence of this particular personality trait of yours.

Quote

I'll tell you what. I'll change my name to Dishonest Ming Ming for a month, if these games turn out to be actual Ratchet-like remakes. That's how confident I am.

Wow. You sure are edgy for putting your reputation on the line over something all of two people in this thread wondered aloud about. Got a real badass over here.

 

 

 

What you've still failed to realize, even though you've acknowledged at least one post that already pointed it out and I've also explained it to you, is that the typical requirement for a video game remake being a remake instead of just making an enhanced port or whatever isn't making an entirely new fucking game that has similar gameplay and covers similar story beats as an original but otherwise doesn't play much or look much like the original title, like Insomniac did with Ratchet and Clank PS4. Not every game remake is Ratchet and Clank PS4. Not every game remake is Tomb Raider Anniversary. Not every game remake is Goldeneye Wii.

Lunar Legend on the GBA is a (fantastically shitty but still somewhat extensive) remake of the original Sega CD title Lunar: The Silver Star, but it is nothing at all like Ratchet and Clank on the PS4 in comparison to Ratchet and Clank on the PS2.

Lunar Silver Star Story on the Saturn/PSX is an extensive remake of the original Sega CD title Lunar: The Silver Star, but it's nothing at all like Ratchet and Clank on the PS4 to Ratchet and Clank on the PS2.

Lunar Silver Star Harmony on the PSP is an even more extensive remake of the original Sega CD title Lunar: The Silver Star, and it is actually quite a bit similar to Ratchet and Clank on the PS4 in comparison to Ratchet and Clank on the PS2.

I own every one except the Japanese Saturn version, and I own the Sega CD original. All of the non-Sega CD versions are still remakes of the Sega CD one.

 

Hell, going back full circle, Square themselves have made a fucking lot of remakes of the NES Final Fantasy games that are blatantly remakes but nothing at all like Ratchet and Clank PS4.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, since you've very publicly attempted to weasel your way out nearly everything you were originally claiming to be the case, are you done?

[Jango]

The people who said Crash was a literal ass coded game, they are not wrong. Andy Gavin already said that what he did couldn't be reproduced by anyone but him, because of all the tricks they had to pull off to create Crash. In other words, it's messy, but it worked. They did the same with Jak & Daxter, I remember the studio behind the remastered collection saying they had to re-work the engine and re-do a lot of things, because the original code was so confusing it couldn't simply be ported to the PS3. They also worked close with Naughty Dog, since Jak & Daxter is still their property. I don't know how VV will approach ND, if they even plan on doing so. Quite likely, since they probably have the trilogy assets... or maybe Sony does too, IDK.

Point is, porting Crash to the PS4 would require re-building it from the ground up anyways. Exactly how it happened in Uncharted 4... maybe that was a demo, some people already said that.

[CrashRatchetFan]

3 hours ago, Jango said:

The people who said Crash was a literal ass coded game, they are not wrong. Andy Gavin already said that what he did couldn't be reproduced by anyone but him, because of all the tricks they had to pull off to create Crash. In other words, it's messy, but it worked. They did the same with Jak & Daxter, I remember the studio behind the remastered collection saying they had to re-work the engine and re-do a lot of things, because the original code was so confusing that it couldn't simply be ported to the PS3. They also worked close with Naughty Dog, since Jak & Daxter is still their property. I don't know how VV will approach ND, if they even plan on doing so. Quite likely, since they probably have the trilogy assets... or maybe Sony does too, IDK.

Point is, porting Crash to the PS4 would require re-building it from the ground up anyways. Exactly how it happened in Uncharted 4... maybe that was a demo, some people already said that.

Actually, Neil Druckmann finally spoke out and said that besides the art/sound the Crash sections were all programmed by ONE guy so that's why they're so clunky. I can't see that being a demo.

But yeah, you're right about everything else. 

[Jango]

He did? Well, Andy was one guy too Did Neil said anything else? Like "it was indeed a deal with Activision set in the last minute" or something?

[CrashRatchetFan]

12 hours ago, Jango said:

He did? Well, Andy was one guy too Did Neil said anything else? Like "it was indeed a deal with Activision set in the last minute" or something?

He didn't go in super detailed. Just pointed it out the differences between the original and the UC4 one.

Honestly though, if the remakes look like this (which they probably are), I'll buy 20 of them: