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EU referendum: The UK votes to leave the EU


Kevin

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He's very good at setting the current mood we have here in Scotland. If you don't know who Ewan McGregor is he's a Scottish actor best known as young Obi-Wan Kenobi, Christian in Moulin Rouge, set to play Lumiere in Beauty and the Beast and for his role in Trainspotting. This scene with him springs to mind:

 

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Ewan McGregor might be one of the coolest celebrities around - watching the TV shows Long Way Round and Long Way Down on Netflix should make that apparent to anyone. So... yeah, everyone in Scotland has a right to be mad as all hell for this. England shouldn't have the right to drag them along with it, nor Northern Ireland, which could see its economy collapse if Brexit does happen.


An epic Facebook post summing up farcical way this shit's playing out within Britain's political sphere has gone viral, so you might want to look:

Quote

So, let me get this straight... the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they'd all done nothing to help them.

Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn't lose, did - but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who'd always thought he'd lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash - and he was, but it did, but he's not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can't become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.

Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party's view of this view is the opposite of the opposition's. And the opposition aren't yet opposing anything because the leader isn't listening to his party, who aren't listening to the country, who aren't listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there's not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful.

Clear?

Link.

Oh, and credit ratings for the EU have now also been cut as a result of Brexit...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36679481

But it's all okay, because we're "independent" now. Sigh.

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All things considered, this is looking less like Scotland seceding and more like every other part of the UK kicking England out. :P

On 6/29/2016 at 6:34 PM, Patticus said:

Gibraltar: Spain began pushing, on the day after the referendum, for joint sovereignty over the territory. I can see the day come, however, when a Spanish nationalist government comes to power, and insists on a hand-over deal similar to that of Hong Kong being turned over to China.

However, if Brexit leads to a second Scottish independence referendum, and it succeeds where previous attempts failed, then that will inject new life into Catalonia's deflated independence movement, which, if also successful, would make a mockery of any Spanish attempt to gain control over Gibraltar.

I don't think Spain has a strong enough case. "It was our territory at one point" is largely considered a bankrupt reasoning for territorial expansion. It is the doctrine of tyrants, not democracies; we put things to a vote, as both Scotland and the whole of the UK have done.

The people of Hong Kong are Chinese, so it made sense for Britain to return it. The people of Gibraltar are largely British, much like the inhabitants of the Falklands. The people of Gibraltar, much like those in the Falklands, have overwhelmingly rejected the idea of being ruled by Spain, after all (which means, like their friends in Buenos Aires, Madrid is just going to have to deal with it).

On the issue of Spain going all Goa and trying to take it by force: that would trigger war with the United States and most of Europe due to NATO's terms. Spain, much like Argentina with the Falklands, will probably just settle for using Gibraltar as a way to distract from domestic issues.

Now there IS the issue of a seceding Gibraltar, but I wouldn't doubt they'd want to accede to NATO at the same moment they left England behind to keep Spain at bay.

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gbp to usd.png

Looks like the Pound's stabilized somewhat. Inbetween ups and downs, it looks like the exchange rate is about 1.33 USD for each 1 GBP.

Overall, that's a loss of 11%.

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So that's two leading figures of the Brexit side to turn tail and run within two weeks of actually winning the referendum. What kind of message does that send to the voters on both sides?

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16 minutes ago, Fancy said:

So that's two leading figures of the Brexit side to turn tail and run within two weeks of actually winning the referendum. What kind of message does that send to the voters on both sides?

"We didn't expect to win." Boris certainly didn't. Cameron resigning is a masterstroke, really - he knows that pulling the trigger on Article 50 is going to completely shit up the economy and make the PM hated by roughly 16 million people. Then, when the negotiations mean that the UK has to accept free movement to gain access to the single market, the PM will be hated by another 17 million. Alternatively, don't trigger Article 50 and 17 million people think you're a traitor. The Prime Minster's position is now a poisoned chalice - damned if you do, damned if you don't. Only a goon like Michael Gove would do it, because he takes his advice not from experts, economists and politicians, but his wife - A Daily Mail columnist. 

I'll believe Farage leaving when he actually does, this is the 3rd time he's tried to leave and the party membership have either renominated him or outright refused his resignation. Their only MP won't lead the party and the rest of them are, charitably put, insane. 

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British politics for the uninitiated.

Corbyn: Fucking Useless..

Lib Dems: Fucking dead.

Boris: Fucking coward.

Farrage: Fucking idiot.

Cove: Fucking demented.

Cameron: Fucked a pig, fucked the country, fucked off.

 

What about the Greens? Oh fuck off.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

British politics for the uninitiated.

Corbyn: Fucking Useless..

Lib Dems: Fucking dead.

Boris: Fucking coward.

Farrage: Fucking idiot.

Cove: Fucking demented.

Cameron: Fucked a pig, fucked the country, fucked off.

 

What about the Greens? Oh fuck off.

Well, at least Scotland is looking alright. We even might be able to stay in the EU even if England and Wales are all wanting to go.

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4 minutes ago, Mogtaki said:

Well, at least Scotland is looking alright. We even might be able to stay in the EU even if England and Wales are all wanting to go.

No you won't. 

Aside from the fact that other EU nations will block you, Scotland voted to stay with the UK and you think this means you'll get a second referendum on that, yeah that'll happen right after the UK gets a 2nd referendum on EU membership.

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25 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

No you won't. 

Aside from the fact that other EU nations will block you, Scotland voted to stay with the UK and you think this means you'll get a second referendum on that, yeah that'll happen right after the UK gets a 2nd referendum on EU membership.

Scotland would only need the majority vote. There's a lot going on here concerning a new referendum with things involving Article 50. The EU leave is apparently all that was needed to trigger a call for a possible second referendum with the Scottish Conservative leader saying it needs to happen. The only problem right now is the political holiday, otherwise things were getting busy here.

Speaking of things, in light of everything a dossier of broken promises from the initial no campaign was released. There sure are a lot of them.

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When in doubt, do what always happens when a country disintegrates: claim to be the successor state.

It doesn't look so much like Scotland seceding from the UK so much as the rest of the UK kicking England out. You'd have a good case for the Remain areas to take the United Kingdom's seat, sort of like how the PRC was able to seize Taiwan's UN seat. Really, when England only controls itself and Wales, it has a hard case to say it is the United Kingdom.

Regarding a second EU referendum: I think Scotland is going to vote for independence even if the UK does a second vote and chooses to Remain. The Scottish people chose to stay originally because, well, better the enemy you know than the uncertainty of independence. England just gave good reason to no longer trust them, especially given it looks like a lot of the Leave voters didn't really think the decision through. It doesn't make sense to remain with the UK when economic uncertainty is a deciding issue.

Speaking of Britain and the EU though, we have this gem:

o-COMRES-570.jpg

That TV show clip that was shared earlier looks to have been right on the money. Participation in the EU looks to have been meant as a way of continuing the British Empire.

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The fuck kinda hypocrisy is that?

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2 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

The fuck kinda hypocrisy is that?

The "fuck you, I got mine" mindset in a nutshell.

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28 minutes ago, Candescence said:

The "fuck you, I got mine" mindset in a nutshell.

I swear if it didn't hurt people on the other side, I'd want them to get a brutal kick in the ass for that mindset.

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Anyone who says this to me in real life will get a swift verbal beatdown.

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Here we go, folks: Paris is starting to try to pick off London's financial sector, although I expect that Frankfurt will be by far the biggest winner.

The longer all this carries on, the more Iraqi Defense Minister all the Leave supporters are going to look. In two years, when the moment of Brexit doth approach, there should be a new referendum, the complete Leave deal in everyone's heads, and a much fuller understanding of the consequences of Brexit well apparent and probably already in full effect by that time.

I can't see the Leave camp growing any in that time, and I expect the Remain camp will swell as a result.

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I ponder what effects this will have on the Union in the long run, though. I have no doubt Scotland's faith in the UK is permanently shaken by this. What of the other parts of the UK that were all Remain votes? Will they insist on the status quo if Britain ends up staying in the EU, or will they decide to hitch a ride on Scotland's train?

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Just now, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

I ponder what effects this will have on the Union in the long run, though. I have no doubt Scotland's faith in the UK is permanently shaken by this. What of the other parts of the UK that were all Remain votes? Will they insist on the status quo if Britain ends up staying in the EU, or will they decide to hitch a ride on Scotland's train?

Ireland would be a massive problem - the issue with what to do with the UK's only EU land border is extremely delicate. Some of the political parties have made noises towards their own independence referendums, but with the fractious nature of Irish politics that could take a while, or not happen at all. They will also have to have a do over on the Good Friday Agreement, which is wholly dependent on EU court rulings and bills. Put simply, there would not be peace in the region today without the EU, but it's still a fragile situation and the breakdown of the agreement will not easily be fixed. 

Another thing to consider is Wales - as one of the most deprived areas in the EU, thanks to Tory policy in the 80's, it was very reliant on EU funding for infrastructure and regeneration. Now, Leave campaigners in Wales insisted that losing this funding due to Brexit would be fine, as they could simply replace it with government funding. Y'know, the government that has imposed constant swingeing cuts on public services for the past 6 years. As Wales stagnates again, they could very easily be disaffected with English politics in the same way the Scots are. But this is a distant proposition.

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Michael Gove has been knocked out of the Tory Leadership race. The last two candidates are women, which means that Britain will have its second woman Prime Minister in October. 

Theresa May is in the lead so far, the Orwellian leader we deserve, with her frequent annoyance about EU law stopping The Home Office from deporting anyone she likes. She would probably start deporting EU nationals after Brexit. She is just deeply committed to restricting human rights and immigration. 

Andrea Leadsom, who is now seen as the proper 'Brexit candidate', has at best exaggerated her career in the finance industry, had a career in the finance industry, had to be persuaded that climate change was real, is extremely pro fracking, opposed gay marriage legislation, has ties to Ugandan homophobic groups, and seems to think the answer to economic uncertainty post Brexit is to pull up your sleeves, be patriotic, keep calm and carry on. 

If either one is Prime Minster, we're doomed, in subtly different ways. I hate this bloody nation. 

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As much as I want to spread the word that neither of these are good for the UK, people are going to as for proof. Is there any?

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The main difference between May and Leadsom is that whilst May probably holds the same sort of religious beliefs as her opponent privately, Leadsom is the one that would decide policy based on her faith, which makes her very dangerous. IIRC, she sends her kids to a religious school that teaches a "gay cure," and may also believe God speaks to her. To make matters worse, Leadsom is in favor of removing minimum wage requirements for small businesses.

Either way we go, Britain will imminently be lead by an ultra-authoritarian, religious nutcase. May looks like the lesser of the two evils, but she's every bit as vile. Frankly, I think that a general election should be called right away, not that Labour or the Lib Dems are in any position to mount an effective campaign - but the people as a whole deserve a voice in this, not just the 0.2% of the population belonging to the Tory party.

I've never despaired for my homeland before, but I think that now seems like a pretty damn good place to start.

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4 hours ago, Fancy said:

As much as I want to spread the word that neither of these are good for the UK, people are going to as for proof. Is there any?

This is just the immigration stuff, but shoutouts to the Snoopers Charter for the whole police state business. I can't find a quick summary, but that last one is pretty good at explaining how much it sucks.

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/theresa-may-wrongly-deported-48000-students-after-bbc-panorama-exposes-toeic-scam-a6958286.html

https://www.rt.com/uk/349468-theresa-may-migrants-eu/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/14/snoopers-charter-apple-fbi-bill-hacking-gagging

and the effects of her deportation policy on a more personal level,

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/14/the-lawyer-who-takes-the-cases-no-one-wants

As for Leadsom...

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/07/9-reasons-you-should-be-truly-terrified-andrea-leadsom-becoming-prime-minister

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/andrea-leadsom-admits-i-dont-like-gay-marriage-law-because-it-hurts-christians-a3290621.html

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/07/05/minimum-wage-maternity-pay-scrapped-plans-andrea-leadsom

Fucking Tory Scum, the lot of them. 

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