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Regarding the Dreamcast & Gamecube versions of SA1 and SA2...


Leon K Fox

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Never had any framerate trouble with SADX either. Strange...I guess it's very minor, but it's certainly not THAT bad. Otherwise, I would've noticed immediately. ^ ^;

Even though SA2B did fix a few glitches and things, it didn't fix the Chao Garden glitch where you can homing attack out of the garden with Sonic or Shadow. Also, there was that weird A button jump thing which was very annoying, especially on Egg Golem.

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Yeah there weren't many differences between the two ports. And I think therein lies the main problem ppl had with them. The games received rave reviews on Dreamcast because of the fact that they showcased the true power of the hardware. But when they came to Gamecube, obviously stronger than the DC, they were expected a lot more than they got. Graphics on SA2B were still good, framerate was fluid, but there were still a bunch of glitches left in the game that didn't get fixed the second time around. DC reviewers let it go on 1 & 2 because that was the peak of their achievement then. Now there wasn't much room for excuses.

And SADX?! Man...don't even get me started. They claimed to have enhanced the visuals and all they did was add a few new water effects and cleaned up the character models some. But the blocky, glitchy animations were still there, as were the now-lackluster graphics. DX got dogged especially hard since it followed its much prettier sequel in porting to the Gamecube. Basically they didn't follow through on their promise. I didn't mind TOO much cuz the Sonic Adventure games were the sole reason I wanted a Dreamcast (thank God I didn't get one after all, lol). But still, there's no denying that as a remake, they could've done a LOT better.

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Meh, I like DX better for the simple reason that you could unlock Metal Sonic for Sonic's levels if you collect all the emblems. I'm pretty sure you didn't get anything in the original. All the added missions were crap and the Game Gear games weren't a big deal. The character models were better but the fur or whatever you would call it looked better in the original. I guess it was kind of cool to see Cream flying around in DX too. :lol:

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Okay so I exaggerated. They aren't completely game-breaking. But man, does it kill your flow.

It's nice to see that people haven't noticed the framerate issues when they play through it. The fact is though, it's there.

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I'd prefer Dreamcast because of nostalgia... I don't like the new models. They're a little more crisp, yeah, but they just don't seem right. Not quite Heroes shiny, but you get my drift. I did appreciate the Cream cameos in the DX version. The missions were okay, but I could've done without them. If they had more of a reward than just GameGear games I can play on an emulator, LIKE SUPER SONIC IN LEVELS I would have probably put more effort into finishing it.

Besides. there's no online downloads in DX, you have to use Action Replay for most of them.

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I really can't understand why you'd be baffled by people preferring the Dreamcast versions over the Gamecube versions.

A good portion of the community here, and the Sonic fanbase as a whole, are also SEGA fans. Sonic IS SEGA, making the company a true hardware contender with the release of Sonic the Hedgehog in 1991. The release of Sonic Adventure in 1998 (1999 in the US and UK) was a HUGE event. Sonic was in 3D, and we had a true sequel to Sonic & Knuckles. Also remember that the Dreamcast was the first major 128-bit system on the market. It was eye popping, shit your pants awesome to boot the game for the first time.

Then came 2001, Sonic Adventure 2 was released on Sonic's birthday. There was an awesome exclusive Sonic Birthday Pack to be had. The story was epic and you played as Eggman! Again, it was shit your pants awesome.

Then came the Gamecube, PS2 and XBOX. Graphics were amazing, 3D platformers came out like crazy and the chance of feeling the same emotions that came with Sonic Adventure in 1999 were gone. Gamers were numbed to the effects of 3D gameplay, it was the norm.

Then came 2003 and Sonic Adventure Director's Cut hit. Sure it was fun and all, but it was just another 3D platformer with graphics that could never rival Mario Sunshine or other Gamecube platformers of the time.

So when people say the Dreamcast version is the ultimate version, remember that a lot of that falls on nostalgia and SEGA pride, and in the land of gaming that means a lot. To me, those factors are much more powerful than slightly enhanced graphics and tacked on missions and multiplayer modes. You're opinion may differ, but remember what you're coming up against.

dc_logo2.gif

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Ah ha! And another thing:

Dreamcast outputs at 480p via VGA. Every system is capable of this and almost every game is VGA compatible.

Gamecube outputs at 480p via DVI. Early systems had digital out, but Nintendo dropped this feature in May 2004. Any models manufactured since then were best viewed with component cables, which are not as good as DVI or VGA. PAL Gamecube's cannot utilize the progressive scan ability at all. The ability is there, but Nintendo locked it out.

So in terms of high def image, the Dreamcast wins.

Edited by Doctor Eggman
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I haven't played SADX, so I barely ever play SA because it requires getting the DC out, which also requires getting ear plugs out and explaining to mother why it sounds like there is a helicopter in my room. I should REALLY get it on the GameCube. The glitches in the original Sonic Adventure are hilarious and it's a shame they aren't on the GameCube version.

My copy of SA2B seems less glitchy than most by the sounds of it. I have the most trouble with the glitch during Security Hall, Aquatic Mine and the Egg Golem. I rarely encounter it in any other levels. I like messing around with the Chao, which was made less tedious in SA2B.

I think because so few people bothered to get a DC, it's gained legendary status and that's why people pretend the original versions are better than they are. I didn't get mine until ages after it had disappeared as I encountered a second hand one for

Edited by Arrow
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I think because so few people bothered to get a DC, it's gained legendary status and that's why people pretend the original versions are better than they are.

You might as well put a drop of blood in a shark tank.

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I'd prefer Dreamcast because of nostalgia... I don't like the new models. They're a little more crisp, yeah, but they just don't seem right. Not quite Heroes shiny, but you get my drift. I did appreciate the Cream cameos in the DX version. The missions were okay, but I could've done without them. If they had more of a reward than just GameGear games I can play on an emulator, LIKE SUPER SONIC IN LEVELS I would have probably put more effort into finishing it.

Well they did add Metal Sonic as an unlockable for Sonic's levels. Super Sonic would have been better, but Metal was cool too.

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I think why Gamecube is getting worse reviews is that it's done by different reviewers (actually in SA's case it was said to not play as well as the DC did), like IGN for example, the guy who did the DC version of SA2 said that he liked just about everything about it (and said something that did the one thing that IGN never did again, put a smile on my face), "If this is last Sonic game in these declining DC years, then it's satisfying to know that the DC didn't go out with a bang, but with a Sonic Boom.")

The guy who did the GC version was Matt Cassmahassah (Don't remember his name, but I'm not too desperate to find out) reviewed it as a whole rather than a port, and wasn't as pleased with it. It was fine and all, I mean "opinions are opinions" and all that claptrap, but he ended up saying something that ended up insulting one of his own (to the DC ver's reviewer), saying "I don't know what the DC guy was smoking when he reviewed the game himself." Not only did he insult a fellow reviewer, but he insulted his own credibility as a reviewer.

That said, love SA2:B. Definitely one of the best Sonic games. Flaws, yes, but we come to expect that from games all around.

Edited by The_Soul_Gauge
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The guy who did the GC version was Matt Cassmahassah (Don't remember his name, but I'm not too desperate to find out) reviewed it as a whole rather than a port, and wasn't as pleased with it. It was fine and all, I mean "opinions are opinions" and all that claptrap, but he ended up saying something that ended up insulting one of his own (to the DC ver's reviewer), saying "I don't know what the DC guy was smoking when he reviewed the game himself." Not only did he insult a fellow reviewer, but he insulted his own credibility as a reviewer.

Matt is an absolute joke of a reviewer, he really is. Like one time he made his opinion out to be fact when he said in a video of some sort (may have been a best games of '06 video) that Twilight Princess was better than Okami, and he;s known to show traits of a fanboy in far too many of his reviews considering the fact he's paid to do them.

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It's nice to see that people haven't noticed the framerate issues when they play through it. The fact is though, it's there.

I wasn't even aware that Sonic Adventure DX had framerate issues until I read your review of it. :P

A good portion of the community here, and the Sonic fanbase as a whole, are also SEGA fans.

This is why I have the Gamecube versions of the Sonic Adventures; I've never been a fan of a particular company. Sonic is actually the only thing made by Sega I have experience with.

Now that I think about it, I really need to play Sonic Adventure DX again sometime. When I'm more into Sonic, of course. My interest in Sonic is sort of at a low point right now. :P

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I wasn't even aware that Sonic Adventure DX had framerate issues until I read your review of it. :P

That's why reviews help. ^.^

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SADX had much, much more glitches. The models were better on the DC, and the framerate wasn't ass. Not to mention the DC version had DLC, which I still have.

Can't say much about SA2B, I don't really like it. At least the DC version had DLC and less ugly chao gardens.

I've never played SA2 (nor SA1) on Dreamcast but I always felt the Gamecube version was superior.

Stupidest thing I've read in my life. How are you so sure if you've never played the DC versions?

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Stupidest thing I've read in my life. How are you so sure if you've never played the DC versions?

How is that stupid? Not alot of people bought Dreamcasts, hence the fact the console failed despite its critical reception.

That was quite rude of you, I have to be honest.

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That's why reviews help. ^.^

Help what? Enjoy the game less? :P

Speaking of which, even if I was aware of it on my first playthrough, it probably wouldn't have bothered me at all, since I tune out technical issues and glitches if I don't want them interfering with my experience. It's not something I taught myself to do or anything - I just seem to do it. I only remember three or so occurrences of glitches across both my recent playthroughs of Sonic 2006 as well. :o

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I only remember three or so occurrences of glitches across both my recent playthroughs of Sonic 2006 as well. :o

I think i could know possibly every time that you can fuck up on '06 due to glitches, so i dont notice 'em much.

Also i had the PC version of SADX, and i thought it looked better than the orginal.. and didnt notice much else to be frankly honest. No framerate issues, but i suppose system is high spec.

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How is that stupid? Not alot of people bought Dreamcasts, hence the fact the console failed despite its critical reception.

That was quite rude of you, I have to be honest.

It was rude, yeah, I don't condone that *glares* but he has a point besides that. You can't make a judgement on which version is better if you've not played both of them, and Dreamcast tanking doesn't mean that all the games were totally crap on it. ;P It's a bit naive of you to be honest, but again there's no need to be spoken to like that.

Help what? Enjoy the game less? :P

Why would knowing faults with the game enjoy your game any less? They'll be there whether or not someone informs you about it. The game being a polished turd would help you enjoy the game less - reviews help you understand why they're polished turds.

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How does a review, pointing out details most people would miss, "help" anything? Why do you need to understand why something is bad, or good, from someone elses oppinion?

Whether or not faults impact the finished product is very individual. It's not helping anyone but the individual arguing against the product.

The fact that the dreamcast failed is very relevent to all this, but it's not like the cube was much better. It will affect your opinion of the game depending on console, regardless of differences. Imagine going to McDonalds and eating a 3 Michelin star meal. It doesn't matter how good that meal is, you're still at a McDonalds, and it will affect your opinion of the meal. I bet a McDonald's tastes better in a fancy resturant, too.

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Okay, I found the deal breaker. The REASON why the Dreamcast is the ideal console for the game: The Gamecube had altered (and lazier) textures. Just look at this comparison:

DREAMCAST

Red bricks, windows, ornamentation and greenery WOW!

picture2qoy.png

versus

GAMECUBE

Gray walls, gray pillars, and flat blue glass. Yawn...

picture1zzw.png

I'll take the Dreamcast version. :)

Edited by Doctor Eggman
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Wow, that is quite a difference.

I've never noticed anything like that in SA2... Some posters changed, but, that was it?

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Okay, I found the deal breaker. The REASON why the Dreamcast is the ideal console for the game: The Gamecube had altered (and lazier) textures. Just look at this comparison:

DREAMCAST

Red bricks, windows, ornamentation and greenery WOW!

picture2qoy.png

versus

GAMECUBE

Gray walls, gray pillars, and flat blue glass. Yawn...

picture1zzw.png

I'll take the Dreamcast version. :)

Wow, I never noticed that before :blink: Ookay, I actually am getting kind of tempted to buy a Dreamcast on Ebay and buy its version of Sonic Adventure. (there are other games I'd want on the system though, so don't think I'd be buying it just for that)

Edited by Leon K Fox
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Wow, I never noticed that before blink.gif Ookay, I actually am getting kind of tempted to buy a Dreamcast on Ebay and buy its version of Sonic Adventure. (there are other games I'd want on the system though, so don't think I'd be buying it just for that)

You're welcome? After having a go at me for God knows how many pages? Have a go at someone who has actually played both games and knows what he's talking about when you disagree, then completely ignore his wisdom when it turns out to be true. Thanks guys.

How does a review, pointing out details most people would miss, "help" anything? Why do you need to understand why something is bad, or good, from someone elses oppinion?

I REALLY don't see how pointing out a technical flaw in the game's coding (i.e. the framerate) is a matter of opinion.

Whether or not faults impact the finished product is very individual. It's not helping anyone but the individual arguing against the product.

Would you buy a car without an airbag? Sure, you might never get to be in accident that requires the use of one, but hey! Use of the car is very individual, so by all means car reviewers and safety chiefs should highly recommend it!

=P

So you're saying that reviewers should just shut up and make happy with every game they review? Wow. One minute game reviewers aren't thorough enough when they write their copy, the next they bring up all these silly insignificant "glitches" and "technical issues" and "loading times" and "collision detection problems" that only aims to be 'harsh'.

The fact that the dreamcast failed is very relevent to all this

How, exactly? The console has no impact on whether the game is actually any good or not. By that instance, I can say that Patapon is crap because the PSP isn't selling too well.

It will affect your opinion of the game depending on console, regardless of differences. Imagine going to McDonalds and eating a 3 Michelin star meal. It doesn't matter how good that meal is, you're still at a McDonalds, and it will affect your opinion of the meal. I bet a McDonald's tastes better in a fancy resturant, too.

That analogy makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The image or brand of consoles shouldn't come into a comparison of two games. That's total fanboy nonsense and a fallacy.

Essentially what you're saying is: it's OK to say that SADX is better than SA1, even though one has never played both games. lolwut? From your response to Doctor Eggman, it's clear that you've never even played both titles, so your argument falls flat entirely.

Comparisons cannot be drawn on the experience of one game alone. That goes against the whole point of a 'comparison', right? Talking about consoles or anything else is a complete strawman, and no amount of bizarre logic you throw is ever going to change that.

Wow, that is quite a difference.

But surely it's all opinion, right? :rolleyes:

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