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Zero-Tolerance Concerns


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On 08/07/2016 at 10:41 PM, Tara said:

 Trust me, I think everyone on this forum (including myself) has been given this at least once in their tenure here.  That's to be expected.

Hmm? Wait, have I ever...? I can't recall...maybe...? I dunno...

Erm...oh, right. I'm pretty sure I understand everything now, but I'm a little down hearted for many reasons. I can't remember how many times the mods have had to explain about the importance of reporting. I understand the "Can't someone else do it?" mindset as I'm guilty of that too. Members know when no mod is online as you can guarantee a joke referencing it. "Time to make trouble." And so on...

I've been concerned about it myself, but on many occasions in this thread, it's been openly said that they generally don't mind reports regardless of how serious. If it turns out to be a mistake, than it's no big deal. I mean...I kinda got that feeling that Komodin was a big part of this community in more ways than just one. He was trying to keep the peace too...

...there's something in my eye, please excuse me...

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2 minutes ago, DanimeJ86 said:

Members know when no mod is online as you can guarantee a joke referencing it.

You know that some of us are invisible, right?

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23 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Komodin used to report things. A lot. Any inkling of trouble that could've been brewing and was in his sights was reported by him. While it sometimes amused us or we disagreed that any particular report was problematic, we never told him to stop or do anything to alter the behavior because we appreciated the extra vigilance. Many times it led to us cutting off an argument at the root versus letting it fester and leading to the kind of shit that would happen in the 25th anniversary threads where strikes, suspensions and bans, and thread closures occurred. Komodin made the forum a much better place in that regard by being an active and unappreciated extension of our eyes and ears. So if nothing else, at least continue that part of his legacy and actually let us know when shit is or might start going down so we can actually do our jobs more thoroughly.

No offence, but how are we meant to feel like all of this is confidential when you just outed a member for posting reports all the time, Komo was an awesome person, and I don't think he deserves to have that announced to the entirety of the board when a simple explanation of why reports are important would have been fine. As is, you just contradicted the entire reason why we as members are meant to feel safe with reports, I.E: They stay private between the mod team and the person sending the report only.

For the record, Komo was one of the friendliest, welcoming, and best members SSMB had. He was helpful. He was there if you needed to talk. I'd dare say that Komo was the member most people around here should be striving to be. Reports was not Komo's legacy, and he deserves better than to be publicly outed as someone who sent tons and tons of reports. Not only because Komo was so much more, but that kind of statement could also possibly ruin his reputation in some people's eyes, as a "tattletale" of sorts. That's the exact reason why these reports are meant to stay confidential. 

If we really wanted to continue Komo's legacy on SSMB, we'd take a look at what he did on SSMB. Not just reports, but actively helping people when they were down, or just talking to them, and being just an all around kind member. At the end of the day, this only serves to throw Komo and his reputation under the bus in order to prove a point, something that everyone else did perfectly fine without completely breaking the entire trust basis that's meant to occur between a member, and the mod team when we report something.

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15 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

No offence, but how are we meant to feel like all of this is confidential when you just outed a member for posting reports all the time, Komo was an awesome person, and I don't think he deserves to have that announced to the entirety of the board when a simple explanation of why reports are important would have been fine. As is, you just contradicted the entire reason why we as members are meant to feel safe with reports, I.E: They stay private between the mod team and the person sending the report only.

For the record, Komo was one of the friendliest, welcoming, and best members SSMB had. He was helpful. He was there if you needed to talk. I'd dare say that Komo was the member most people around here should be striving to be. Reports was not Komo's legacy, and he deserves better than to be publicly outed as someone who sent tons and tons of reports. Not only because Komo was so much more, but that kind of statement could also possibly ruin his reputation in some people's eyes, as a "tattletale" of sorts. That's the exact reason why these reports are meant to stay confidential. 

If we really wanted to continue Komo's legacy on SSMB, we'd take a look at what he did on SSMB. Not just reports, but actively helping people when they were down, or just talking to them, and being just an all around kind member. At the end of the day, this only serves to throw Komo and his reputation under the bus in order to prove a point, something that everyone else did perfectly fine without completely breaking the entire trust basis that's meant to occur between a member, and the mod team when we report something.

I'm sorry, but I feel like you read that post and literally took the exact wrong thing away from it.

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1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

No offence, but how are we meant to feel like all of this is confidential when you just outed a member for posting reports all the time, Komo was an awesome person, and I don't think he deserves to have that announced to the entirety of the board when a simple explanation of why reports are important would have been fine. As is, you just contradicted the entire reason why we as members are meant to feel safe with reports, I.E: They stay private between the mod team and the person sending the report only.

For the record, Komo was one of the friendliest, welcoming, and best members SSMB had. He was helpful. He was there if you needed to talk. I'd dare say that Komo was the member most people around here should be striving to be. Reports was not Komo's legacy, and he deserves better than to be publicly outed as someone who sent tons and tons of reports. Not only because Komo was so much more, but that kind of statement could also possibly ruin his reputation in some people's eyes, as a "tattletale" of sorts. That's the exact reason why these reports are meant to stay confidential. 

If we really wanted to continue Komo's legacy on SSMB, we'd take a look at what he did on SSMB. Not just reports, but actively helping people when they were down, or just talking to them, and being just an all around kind member. At the end of the day, this only serves to throw Komo and his reputation under the bus in order to prove a point, something that everyone else did perfectly fine without completely breaking the entire trust basis that's meant to occur between a member, and the mod team when we report something.

She was just pointing out one thing he did that really helped them as an example. Calm the fuck down. It's not like she slandered or insulted him or anything. You're making a respectful post out to be an insult and it's honestly fucking baffling to me. Talk about fucking reaching.

Some of you guys just look for anything to write an essay about instead of trying to actually solve any problems, I swear

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Just now, Wraith said:

She was just pointing out one thing he did that really helped them as an example. Calm the fuck down. It's not like she slandered or insulted him or anything. You're making a respectful post out to be an insult and it's honestly fucking baffling to me.

Some of you guys just look for anything wrong to write an essay about, I swear.

So just to be clear then. If it was your reports that had been announced publicly to the board, you'd have no issues despite it meant to be confidential and private?

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17 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

So just to be clear then. If it was your reports that had been announced publicly to the board, you'd have no issues despite it meant to be confidential and private?

She didn't announce anything to the board.  She didn't say what content had been reported, just that he did have a lot of reports.  You're acting like we actually leaked an actual report to the public as an example.  As is, nothing in her post could be used against him unless you're an extremely petty person.

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If those reports helped prevent this forum from being less of shithole, then yeah. I wouldn't mind it one bit, atleast it's better than doing nothing or being part of the problem

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1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

So just to be clear then. If it was your reports that had been announced publicly to the board, you'd have no issues despite it meant to be confidential and private?

All she said was "He used to report things a lot." She didn't literally copy and paste his old reports into the thread. If a mod had mentioned in public that I sent reports, I wouldn't give a shit and odds are neither would you.  You made a post that was basically giving Komodin kudos for helping clean the place up into an insult and I honestly have no idea why you thought that was okay to do or how you even came to that conclusion. 

Your bullshit paranoia is honestly getting tiring. You're not helping anyone at all with this.

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Nothing Nepenthe said was a drag on Komodin, nor was it leaking private data. It was to give an idea of, yes, we've had a member who sent in a lot of reports, and, in the end, especially because there's a big void with him gone now, his efforts were always appreciated by the staff because it showed he actually cared and was trying to make this place a little bit better by actively helping us. I honestly don't know how you can even spin it into anything else.

Please stop assuming the worst every time we comment on things like this, it's getting tiring. Seriously, have a little faith in us.

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Seeing the very personal nature of this forum, I understand people here care about their reputation a lot. They want to maintain a good reputation or want to gain a good reputation. It crops up more than often enough.

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I'm with Ryan with him saying there really was no need to mention Komo specifically. This whole talk could've been avoided by mentioning that reports are indeed important, that people who report serve as metaphorical eyes and ears when mods are not patrolling a specific area of the board. 

Also mentioning that "you should at least continue that part of his legacy" feels like some sort of guilt tactic to me.

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On top of that, not everyone is comfortable even being mentioned as using reports. I flat out don't like people knowing that I personally make reports, because there's variables that can tie into it. Am I making the report because I'm seeing a legitimate issue that I feel needs to be addressed, or am I making it because I'm angry or some other reason. I flat out don't like people knowing when I'm reporting something, and especially if it's close to a certain time or situation, it's obvious who reported it. For example, in particularly toxic situations where it's obvious a mod stepped in, it now isn't hard to put two and two together and determine who reported it. Some of you might not mind having your reports be known, but me personally and others on this board don't like doing it, especially if said report turns out to be a bad judgement call and you effectively made an ass out of yourself.

Also the reasons Failin stated. I agree with reports needing to be made. I have no problem with that statement. Literally the other posts before that explaining the importance of reports were fine. No issue. Did it effectively, and made me considering looking out for more things that would need a report in it. A lot of us is still hurting over Komo, and dragging him into it does seem to be using a bit of guilt to back the point. There was no need to specifically mention him, especially in a way that made it sound like emotional blackmail by saying the least we could do to remember him bye is to report everything.

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I do think it's good to point out that there are dilligent members, and we should be like that. That much, I agree with, one hundred percent; we really should do that more.

Certainly no need to mention them by name, dead or alive, however. Obviously, Komodin is no longer with us, so we may never know how he'd feel about it, but I like to think it was confidential for a reason.

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When we have literally nothing else to say or convince you, what else are we gonna be able to respond with? Every step we've taken in this topic has been criticized and nagged upon without cease. If we didn't mention who it was, you'd be going "oh yeah, well where's the proof that people are that diligent with reporting?".

No really, what do you want from us at this point? 

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7 minutes ago, Failinhearts said:

I'm with Ryan with him saying there really was no need to mention Komo specifically. This whole talk could've been avoided by mentioning that reports are indeed important, that people who report serve as metaphorical eyes and ears when mods are not patrolling a specific area of the board. 

Also mentioning that "you should at least continue that part of his legacy" feels like some sort of guilt tactic to me.

This whole talk could also have been prevented if you hadn't made a big deal out of literally nothing.  Seriously, what exactly has changed in her mentioning Komodin specifically?

If you're interpreting it as a guilt tactic, then that is entirely on you.

3 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Am I making the report because I'm seeing a legitimate issue that I feel needs to be addressed, or am I making it because I'm angry or some other reason

Who the fuck would even ask those questions if they don't know what content was reported specifically?

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If you're not comfortable reporting something, then don't even bother complaining about us not doing our jobs as fast as you want us to. Seriously, I'm not going to listen to any of these criticisms of our duties when we tell you guys time and time again to please use the report system and now here I am seeing members scurrying to find justifications for not using it despite paradoxically claiming that reports need to be made. LOL OKAY.

I'll tell you right now, that "I feel like a tattletale when I report things" mentality is a fat fucking load of crock and that kind of self-consciousness is extremely unhelpful in any of our efforts, members' and mods' alike, in improving forum atmosphere.

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It seems there was a bit of a discrepancy between different individuals' views as to what exactly 'confidentiality' encompasses. She's not available right now for me to check, but I'm very certain that what Nepenthe said was in line with what she honestly understood to be the degree of confidentiality expected from the staff; as other moderators have noted, no details whatsoever with regards to Komo's reports were given. I also have to admit, I find it extremely bizarre that this is being seen as some major potential slight to Komodin when it was being used to PRAISE him and set him up as a positive example to follow.

However, in light of the fact that clearly, not all others share this definition, for the sake of being careful and making even more sure we don't offend anyone, we will avoid doing even this (naming members by name and talking about the number of reports they generally make) in the future. This does NOT constitute an apology because I don't believe Nepenthe breached anyone's trust knowingly and thus did not do anything wrong, but we're all for keeping the peace and if it's true that some people do see the promise of confidentiality as excluding even the meager thing Nepenthe did, we will refrain from doing so in the future. Keeping the peace is our top priority; this was the point of the anti-drama announcement to begin with, after all!

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I use Komodin as a positive example of what people can do to make the forum better in order to further honor him without outing anything he specifically said and its turned into an argument about breaking confidentiality of existing members and exposing them.

Welp, I'm done. Y'all can have it.

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To answer if Komo wouldn't be ok if his reports were made public, who's to say he wouldn't mind it? I mean this policy was made after his passing so I don't see how we even answer that question with full confidence at all. I mean, maybe his reports can be used as an example on how to make a proper report or something like that. But I guess using a typical example would suffice, I'm just throwing ideas at this point. I lack the proper knowledge for these cases anyway 

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1 minute ago, Soni said:

maybe his reports can be used as an example on how to make a proper report or something like that.

Except this is the problem I'm having.  His actual reports weren't used as an example. We didn't go to the report center and actually copy and paste any of them in here. We merely mentioned that it was used.  When?  Where?  How?  Why?  There is no mention.

Komodin used the report system.  I've used the report system.  Chances are, if you're viewing this topic, you've used the report system.  It's literally an integral part of this community to the point where I'd be more surprised if you hadn't.

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32 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

On top of that, not everyone is comfortable even being mentioned as using reports. I flat out don't like people knowing that I personally make reports, because there's variables that can tie into it. Am I making the report because I'm seeing a legitimate issue that I feel needs to be addressed, or am I making it because I'm angry or some other reason. I flat out don't like people knowing when I'm reporting something, and especially if it's close to a certain time or situation, it's obvious who reported it.

Two things, mods determine what to do with each report. One, if we've come to the conclusion you just reported someone because you're mad you're losing an argument, nothing's going to happen anyway. And if you're reporting something legitimate and the other person gets in trouble... what are they going to do? I mean, really. If they start doing more shit because of it, they're that much closer out the door. Two, we never reveal the contents of reports or even exactly why we were called in, so I'm not sure why you're worried. Once again, have a little faith in us. We're not going to shine a big-ass spotlight on you and rat you out for why you made a report. At this point, if you feel uncomfortable reporting something, that's your own problem. You have no place to complain about how we're not doing our jobs if you don't come to us.

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14 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Two things, mods determine what to do with each report. One, if we've come to the conclusion you just reported someone because you're mad you're losing an argument, nothing's going to happen anyway. And if you're reporting something legitimate and the other person gets in trouble... what are they going to do? I mean, really. If they start doing more shit because of it, they're that much closer out the door. Two, we never reveal the contents of reports or even exactly why we were called in, so I'm not sure why you're worried. Once again, have a little faith in us. We're not going to shine a big-ass spotlight on you. At this point, if you feel uncomfortable reporting something, that's your own problem. You have no place to complain about how we're not handling something if you don't come to us.

...Except once again I feel the need to state I haven't complained about how you or the other mods have done your job and or complained about how you handle things. I complained about two things specifically. 1. I thought the punishment for the Zero-Tolarance thing was too harsh (Don't bring it back up again, we've already discussed it to death and Chris already resolved it), and 2. This thing about reports. 

Where you all keep getting this idea that I'm flat out complaining about how you all do your jobs I honestly don't know, because I actively have not said or complained in any regard specifically about you or your jobs, and I'm actively getting annoyed that I keep getting the claim that I'm contesting your skill at doing your jobs when I've already said at least twice that isn't what I am doing.

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I think we all need to take a step back from this thread. I think we lost track of what we created this thread for.

Komodin being name dropped isn't helping honestly since his passing is a touching subject, even if you meant it in a positive light Nep. He's one of our best and its nice to remember him but again between this thread and recent events, things are again pretty touchy.

We were mostly concerned if this meant any kind of argument or any kind of heated debate would get us banned by a massive hair trigger. Some of mods have shown in the past they do have a temper so this lead to more concern. I'm not trying to demonize any of you, both mods and members, but it seems we have been in a massive disagreement that hasn't gone anywhere. I will place my trust in you mods and I'm sure you'll make the right decisions but just remember that we're only human in the end.

All I will ask for is that make fair assessments in making decisions, make sure they're the right ones, and follow by SSMB's moral code in a sense. I don't think I need to tell anyone this because a lot of us would had been banned a long time ago. I'm probably not making the best criticism but I do want to at least point people in the right direction. We do need to be a team between both staff and members to keep this community going after all. Let's try to get this conflict out of our way because I'm sure both sides are tired of hearing this thread going back and forth all the time.

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