Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[JosepHenry]

But CW already said that he loves Sonic CD art design, but doesn't like the level design, his favorite level design is Sonic 3&K.

Why would he base his game's level design with the one he doesn't like?

Studiopolis level design even reminds me of Lava Reef and Carnival Night.

*Indigo Rush already told that, my bad.

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

"can't go back once you pass this point" is present in every 2D Sonic platformer except Sonic CD.

It's also been stated that Christian isn't a huge fan of CD's level design. Sonic Mania is taking its inspiration primarily from Sonic 3 & Knuckles. There's little to worry about. Running into walls and obstacles will happen to anyone who isn't skilled at Sonic (ie, the critics taking the footage who still think Sonic's all about holding right to win)

It'll be fine.

My main issue is with Studiopolis really. Green Hill isn't so bad, the later half DOES feel a little clustered, but Studiopolis has something EVERYWHERE and it doesn't feel too organized very well. Granted you have those laser things to steer you in different directions, but I feel like there's just TOO much thrown into the first act of the stage, especially bumper wise and such and there is a bit of a cheap layout going on like when you're riding one of the reels with spikes atop your head and badniks flying up from behind.

Green Hill is pretty good, but Studiopolis, although it DOES have a fantastic design in general, the layout is a bit overwhelming.

[Maxtiis]

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

My main issue is with Studiopolis really. Green Hill isn't so bad, the later half DOES feel a little clustered, but Studiopolis has something EVERYWHERE and it doesn't feel too organized very well. Granted you have those laser things to steer you in different directions, but I feel like there's just TOO much thrown into the first act of the stage, especially bumper wise and such and there is a bit of a cheap layout going on like when you're riding one of the reels with spikes atop your head and badniks flying up from behind.

Green Hill is pretty good, but Studiopolis, although it DOES have a fantastic design in general, the layout is a bit overwhelming.

I think we should wait until the game is in our hands before we decide that there's too much going on with the level. Classic Sonic games were all about how Sonic interacts with the environment of each level and Studiopolis appears to have methods to do that in spades, which to makes the level more interesting to explore.

And if the levels seem too big keep in mind that in all the footage we've seen of the game, the players completed them anywhere between 2-5 minutes and they were taking their time to show off the levels themselves (although some have obviously never played a Sonic game before). When the game releases some of us Sonic vets could probably plow right through some of these levels without much trouble.

[Chris Knopps]

7 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

I think we should wait until the game is in our hands before we decide that there's too much going on with the level. Classic Sonic games were all about how Sonic interacts with the environment of each level and Studiopolis appears to have methods to do that in spades, which to makes the level more interesting to explore.

And if the levels seem too big keep in mind that in all the footage we've seen of the game, the players completed them anywhere between 2-5 minutes and they were taking their time to show off the levels themselves (although some have obviously never played a Sonic game before). When the game releases some of us Sonic vets could probably plow right through some of these levels without much trouble.

Oh, no doubt. The length of the stages seems fine to me. My problem is, based on what I've seen, a lack of enough areas to simply run without having to take twists and turns and randomly fall or launch into some other random location. Granted it looks fun no matter how you "spin" it, but I would appreciate more areas to just focus on going forward through spirals, loops, down hills and such instead of jumping everywhere and slowing down so much.

I've aced all the old games. Be it the Genesis series, the Advance/Rush series, etc. But there is a bit too much CD/Sonic 4 design going on for my liking. Keep in mind I still love the game regardless of meeting personal design tastes to the T, and I also loved the titles I've used to compare the design with, so it's not a wholeheartedly negative thing either.

Maybe my problem is I got too used to Generations 2D layouts...

[Maxtiis]

9 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Granted it looks fun no matter how you "spin" it, but I would appreciate more areas to just focus on going forward through spirals, loops, down hills and such instead of jumping everywhere and slowing down so much.

I've aced all the old games. Be it the Genesis series, the Advance/Rush series, etc. But there is a bit too much CD/Sonic 4 design going on for my liking. Keep in mind I still love the game regardless of meeting personal design tastes to the T, and I also loved the titles I've used to compare the design with, so it's not a wholeheartedly negative thing either.

Maybe my problem is I got too used to Generations 2D layouts...

It's funny how you mentioned that you'd appreciate more focus on spirals, loops and such. Have you seen Extra Credit's ongoing playthrough of Sonic 3? The guy playing commented on the design of Hydrocity Zone as having a lot of instances of those and remarked that they were like precursors to the scripted loops and various other sequences we see in 3-D Sonic games. He made it seem like it was bad level design rearing its ugly head a game or two early, so it's interesting to see two different perspectives on that. Personally, I think they play an important role in giving the player easy access to speed they can use to carry themselves even further than one may think.

To go back to Sonic CD for a minute, there's one aspect of its level design that I never see mentioned and that's the variety of ways to Macgyver time travel. Sure there's those instances where Sonic Team made it easy with two springs facing one another, but if you're creative and skilled you can pull it off in a lot of places. It's probably the closest thing to Sonic games having emergent gameplay that I can think of.

Generations' 2-D design was still pretty close to what I'd expect out of levels from the classic games; it was Classic Sonic's control that made it distinct from the old games, in that his acceleration on foot was much slower and the spindash being ridiculously overpowered.

[Chris Knopps]

13 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

It's funny how you mentioned that you'd appreciate more focus on spirals, loops and such. Have you seen Extra Credit's ongoing playthrough of Sonic 3? The guy playing commented on the design of Hydrocity Zone as having a lot of instances of those and remarked that they were like precursors to the scripted loops and various other sequences we see in 3-D Sonic games. He made it seem like it was bad level design rearing its ugly head a game or two early, so it's interesting to see two different perspectives on that. Personally, I think they play an important role in giving the player easy access to speed they can use to carry themselves even further than one may think.

To go back to Sonic CD for a minute, there's one aspect of its level design that I never see mentioned and that's the variety of ways to Macgyver time travel. Sure there's those instances where Sonic Team made it easy with two springs facing one another, but if you're creative and skilled you can pull it off in a lot of places. It's probably the closest thing to Sonic games having emergent gameplay that I can think of.

Generations' 2-D design was still pretty close to what I'd expect out of levels from the classic games; it was Classic Sonic's control that made it distinct from the old games, in that his acceleration on foot was much slower and the spindash being ridiculously overpowered.

That definitely helped to make the zone feel sprawled out and gave you PLENTY of room to really stretch your legs though. I suppose if we have a few zones/acts like that zone then all of whatever amount of clustering others may have won't really bother me so much. I don't mind slowing down here and there so long as I'm rewarded with places where that's nonexistent in comparison.

[Gemster312]

16 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

That definitely helped to make the zone feel sprawled out and gave you PLENTY of room to really stretch your legs though. I suppose if we have a few zones/acts like that zone then all of whatever amount of clustering others may have won't really bother me so much. I don't mind slowing down here and there so long as I'm rewarded with places where that's nonexistent in comparison.

I think as long as they just don't reach Labyrinth Zone level of slow-ness, it can't go wrong

Personally, i do believe that the zones all have plenty of fast sections, and if you have fast reaction times, you can avoid obstacles. I can totally see that speed-running was kept in mind when designing these stages.

The big formula to S3K level design (and most other 2D sonic games) is to have multiple vertical levels. The higher you are in the level, the fewer obstacles are there, but there are more pits to fall to lower levels. The lower you are, the level becomes windy and twisty, with plenty of things in your way to slow you down. The level itself is a reward system. If you can keep up with the upper pathway, and use momentum on ramps to launch yourself to the highest of routes, you will be awarded plenty of open room and fewer obstacles and more speed. If you are clumsy (like 99% of the players showing off the game because they don't care about speed, they care about exploration), you will fall into plenty of slower areas, which in result, is a punishment and you get platforming segments that require you to go slower, avoid obstacles, or even sometimes run left.

Notice how most videos showing off sonic mania are of people taking the lower-route of Studiopolis. Or the underground section of Green Hill Zone. It's easy to fall. More difficult to climb. That's why most content you see is of clustered areas. But if you find footage of people taking the high-route of Mirage Saloon, you can see how much faster it is than the messy clustered area down below.

Another example is Ice Cap Zone Act 2 from Sonic 3. If you play as Sonic, taking the highest route of Act 2 you can beat the act in under 50 seconds. If you accidentally fall into the underground cave section of Act 2, it can take up to 4-5 minutes (that place is loaded with gimmicks, water, and other crappy obstacles). It all about rewarding players who can stay at the top of the map and are efficient with momentum. Most youtube videos about the game so far have not shown that because they want to take it slow to show off the zone rather than blaze through it.

I am not worried at all about the clutter of these levels from what I've seen. And of course, it's a platformer game. There has to be obstacles here and there regardless. It can't be TOO easy to beat, then it wouldn't be much of an experience.

[Psychicmoose103]

Hey guys so I'm back with some theories

first, you know how knuckles messes you up in 3&K? What if this time, its Nack/Fang! It would be a great callback to 8-bit Sonic and would make sense.

another theory, I think studipolis is the second zone of the game. My evidence for this is

1. Green hill is clearly the first, and takes place on South Island. Springyard is also there. Stdiopolis has COPE and CPU trains, which could be delivering passengers from springyard city to studiopolis zone.

2. They would have no problem revealing it if it was an early zone.

 

what do you guys think of this?

[Gemster312]

42 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

Hey guys so I'm back with some theories

first, you know how knuckles messes you up in 3&K? What if this time, its Nack/Fang! It would be a great callback to 8-bit Sonic and would make sense.

another theory, I think studipolis is the second zone of the game. My evidence for this is

1. Green hill is clearly the first, and takes place on South Island. Springyard is also there. Stdiopolis has COPE and CPU trains, which could be delivering passengers from springyard city to studiopolis zone.

2. They would have no problem revealing it if it was an early zone.

 

what do you guys think of this?

I think the Nack/Fang theory would be cool, but why would they have posters of them in Mirage Saloon? I mean, like imagine if running through S3&K you saw a bunch of random posters of Knuckles in random levels. I think because the posters are there, it would feel weird to have Nack/Fang actually exist across the game, other than possibly be a mini-boss/boss in Mirage Saloon.

That COPE/CPU note you made is actually a pretty interesting theory. I do feel like Studiopolis does have quite a few more obstacles/gimmicks than an early level would. It just seems busy for a second level (though compared to S3&K 2nd zone Hydrocity, it feels about right) that is supposed to be lengthy. Maybe the COPE/CPU is just there as a nod to Springyard Zone and not actually correlated with the zone?

"They would have no problem revealing it if it was an early zone" - I don't think they care where the zone is in regards to how deep it is into the game's story. Mirage Saloon upon reveal was stated to be "one of the later stages in the game", hence the slightly larger difficulty. So they have revealed Green Hill (99% sure first stage), Mirage Saloon (late game), and Studiopolis (minor/mild difficulty). I personally think Studiopolis is either Zone 3 or 4.

In the reveal video of Mirage Saloon Lola also stated that "this is the desert themed stage", as in, it's like they are designing their stages via particular themes. This makes me believe that any other "heat heavy nature" zone such as Oil Ocean / Sandopolis won't be coming in Sonic Mania. Both of those stages were really close to the end of the game, so it almost feels appropriate that Mirage Saloon is near the very end.

[Psychicmoose103]

14 minutes ago, Gemster312 said:

I think the Nack/Fang theory would be cool, but why would they have posters of them in Mirage Saloon? I mean, like imagine if running through S3&K you saw a bunch of random posters of Knuckles in random levels. I think because the posters are there, it would feel weird to have Nack/Fang actually exist across the game, other than possibly be a mini-boss/boss in Mirage Saloon.

That COPE/CPU note you made is actually a pretty interesting theory. I do feel like Studiopolis does have quite a few more obstacles/gimmicks than an early level would. It just seems busy for a second level (though compared to S3&K 2nd zone Hydrocity, it feels about right) that is supposed to be lengthy. Maybe the COPE/CPU is just there as a nod to Springyard Zone and not actually correlated with the zone?

"They would have no problem revealing it if it was an early zone" - I don't think they care where the zone is in regards to how deep it is into the game's story. Mirage Saloon upon reveal was stated to be "one of the later stages in the game", hence the slightly larger difficulty. So they have revealed Green Hill (99% sure first stage), Mirage Saloon (late game), and Studiopolis (minor/mild difficulty). I personally think Studiopolis is either Zone 3 or 4.

In the reveal video of Mirage Saloon Lola also stated that "this is the desert themed stage", as in, it's like they are designing their stages via particular themes. This makes me believe that any other "heat heavy nature" zone such as Oil Ocean / Sandopolis won't be coming in Sonic Mania. Both of those stages were really close to the end of the game, so it almost feels appropriate that Mirage Saloon is near the very end.

I definitely agree that if it isn't the second zone, it will sure be earlier on. What theme do you expect the second zone to be?

[CleverSonicUsername]

Remember that they have said a few times "Studiopolis is later in the game, so it's a bit harder."

[TB100]

55 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

I definitely agree that if it isn't the second zone, it will sure be earlier on. What theme do you expect the second zone to be?

Watch it be everyone's favorite zone, Labyrinth Zone. XD

(Though Labyrinth zone and it's obstacles with the fast pace of Hydrocity would actually be pretty interesting to see.)

 

[TheOcelot]

I'm pretty sure Mirage Saloon will appear before Studiopolis and not after: 

Firstly, because the mini level-select (below) showcased in some of the streams lists Studiopolis after MS even though Studiopolis was revealed before MS.

Of course you could argue they have just been listed alphabetically.

Secondly because Studiopolis act1 appears to have a more complex design than MS act2 in terms of it's multiple-routes layout and the ability to go consistently fast throughout with cheeky enemy placement. Seems more challenging. Whereas MS also has multiple routes but doesn't seem quite as complex, feels like a slightly easier stage, slower paced/less fluid, but still looks fun!

 

So yeah, I'm pretty sure it will be GH > MS > Studipolis. Whether Mirage Saloon will be the second zone straight after Green Hill is difficult to say. It's definitely possible, although I'd guess at being the third or fourth zone, with Studiopolis appearing much much later.

[Psychicmoose103]

1 hour ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Remember that they have said a few times "Studiopolis is later in the game, so it's a bit harder."

Actually, they said that Mirage Salloon as appearing later, and that's why it's harder than the other 2. It's was on Kinda Funny Games gameplay.

[CleverSonicUsername]

10 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

Actually, they said that Mirage Salloon as appearing later, and that's why it's harder than the other 2. It's was on Kinda Funny Games gameplay.

Pretty sure they've said the same of Studiopolis in a few demos much earlier.

Edit: Exact quote:

"This one's way harder than his (Green Hill)!"
"Yeah, Studiopolis is a little later."

4:18

 

[expansivelovestories]

The overall length possibilities for this game are intriguing! 
S3K sets a good precedent for a long game that works!

There could be specific groups of zones that would comprise a subplot, and could be about five zones long each except perhaps longer for the floating island, but perhaps not!  Something about the name Mania suggests that this could be an unusual/standout game in many regards!

Subplots with an average of four zones each does seem very possible.  Three zones each with a few more here and there would add up to just a few zones longer than S3K!!

[Psychicmoose103]

1 hour ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Pretty sure they've said the same of Studiopolis in a few demos much earlier.

Edit: Exact quote:

"This one's way harder than his (Green Hill)!"
"Yeah, Studiopolis is a little later."

4:18

 

Never saw this video, sorry for thinking you were wrong! You could be right then. To me, Studiopolis seems way harder than Mirage Salloon.

[Chris Knopps]

I am wondering something...

How much IS the SEGA of Japan and Sonic Team divisions involved with the Sonic Mania title? My main issue is... Are they really involved enough to deserve any kind of say-so in how the game is marketed and such? Believe you me I'm all for them going crazy with Sonic 2017 in whatever way they desire since it IS their game, but I'm a bit worried there's going to be some credit going where it isn't deserved and stuff going on in regards to Sonic Mania.

They keep mentioning how they're "not allowed" to say or do this or that, but is it SEGA of America higher ups determining this, or is all the orders coming from the East?

Granted they're the ones who green-lit bringing Whitehead and others into the company and approved the whole Mania project, but just because they said okay to a few things, does that really earn them the right to get so involved with SEGA of America's project?

If I were Whitehead I'd be a bit miffed if there's some butting in going on by people who haven't done anything but said yes and no to a few things, but this is only assuming the East has the most minimal involvement.

(Edit)

Perhaps this is why much, if not most of what we know has come through Whitehead as a means of saying "screw it, here, have a nibble, I'm the one working on it" basically? Again, another assumption, but it would be nice to know a few things about what the East is and isn't doing and, in turn, making a reasonable conclusion as to what they do and don't deserve to do/be involved with in regards to Mania.

[TheOcelot]

5 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I am wondering something...

How much IS the SEGA of Japan and Sonic Team divisions involved with the Sonic Mania title? My main issue is... Are they really involved enough to deserve any kind of say-so in how the game is marketed and such? Believe you me I'm all for them going crazy with Sonic 2017 in whatever way they desire since it IS their game, but I'm a bit worried there's going to be some credit going where it isn't deserved and stuff going on in regards to Sonic Mania.

They keep mentioning how they're "not allowed" to say or do this or that, but is it SEGA of America higher ups determining this, or is all the orders coming from the East?

Granted they're the ones who green-lit bringing Whitehead and others into the company and approved the whole Mania project, but just because they said okay to a few things, does that really earn them the right to get so involved with SEGA of America's project?

If I were Whitehead I'd be a bit miffed if there's some butting in going on by people who haven't done anything but said yes and no to a few things, but this is only assuming the East has the most minimal involvement.

(Edit)

Perhaps this is why much, if not most of what we know has come through Whitehead as a means of saying "screw it, here, have a nibble, I'm the one working on it" basically? Again, another assumption, but it would be nice to know a few things about what the East is and isn't doing and, in turn, making a reasonable conclusion as to what they do and don't deserve to do/be involved with in regards to Mania.

Taxman confirmed he (and Stealth) pitched the idea of Mania "what if a 2d Sonic game had been made for the SEGA Saturn" to SEGA, around early 2015 is my guess. With the 25th anniversary in mind SEGA likely wanted to do something in terms of a celebration of the classics. Even with SoA on board SoJ would have of course had to give their agreement. SoJ SEGA Games’ CEO, Haruki Satomi (a fan of the classics) who we understand helped greenlight the Sonic CD and Sonic 1&2 remasters likely would have been very keen with the idea of a new 2d Sonic game. So in terms of feedback from SoJ it's probably mainly Haruki.

Iizuka of course relocated to SoA around 2015, I think? I'd imagine to help ensure better communication between SoJ and SoA so that poor games like Rise of Lyric don't happen again. It also make sense for Iizuka and Hoshino to be involved with Mania because they were part of the original Sonic Team, so their advice and input can only be beneficial to the new Sonic Team (Stealth, PWG & Taxman). Also from a marketing point of view seeing Hoshino in the Mania (Sonic 2 inspired) commercial, and him & Iizuka appearing in some of the recent streams to help promote the game can only be a good thing.

In terms of SoJ medalling, it could be that Taxman and Stealth pitched a brand new 2d Sonic with all new levels but maybe Haruki or SoA stepped in and said, "okay new zones is a great idea but this game is also a celebration of the classics so we need you to bring back some of the old zones, but get creative, re-imagine them". With the 25th anniversary in mind I think it's understandable SEGA & Sonic Team would want to acknowledge the original classics as well as bringing new content.

I suspect SoJ are staying pretty quiet and mainly just helping with the marketing of Mania in Japan. When is the west going get a Mania train XD

The only sticking point with SoJ might have been the inclusion of Sonic 3 stages due to the music legal issues:

SoA; "Hi SoJ, can we include Sonic 3 stages in Mania..."

SoJ;  "No!"

SoA; "But..."

SoJ; "No!"

SoA; "But fans really love Sonic 3 and it's music and they will pay money for..."

SoJ; "NO!"

SoA  "But this is a celebration of the classics and Sonic 3 is the favorite game of the hardcore fanbase...."

SoJ; "No...........oh await, did you say money? WE LIKE MONEY! Still....................no!"

SoA; "What if the music and level design is changed/re-imagined so as not to cause any further legal issues, so we don't end up losing more money?"

SoJ;  "There's that word again, MONEY. Alright, fine! ...but Iizuka and Hoshino are going to make sure you don't fuck this up so we don't end up getting our ass sued...........again!"

[Psychicmoose103]

2 hours ago, EllieBot said:

Taxman confirmed he (and Stealth) pitched the idea of Mania "what if a 2d Sonic game had been made for the SEGA Saturn" to SEGA, around early 2015 is my guess. With the 25th anniversary in mind SEGA likely wanted to do something in terms of a celebration of the classics. Even with SoA on board SoJ would have of course had to give their agreement. SoJ SEGA Games’ CEO, Haruki Satomi (a fan of the classics) who we understand helped greenlight the Sonic CD and Sonic 1&2 remasters likely would have been very keen with the idea of a new 2d Sonic game. So in terms of feedback from SoJ it's probably mainly Haruki.

Iizuka of course relocated to SoA around 2015, I think? I'd imagine to help ensure better communication between SoJ and SoA so that poor games like Rise of Lyric don't happen again. It also make sense for Iizuka and Hoshino to be involved with Mania because they were part of the original Sonic Team, so their advice and input can only be beneficial to the new Sonic Team (Stealth, PWG & Taxman). Also from a marketing point of view seeing Hoshino in the Mania (Sonic 2 inspired) commercial, and him & Iizuka appearing in some of the recent streams to help promote the game can only be a good thing.

In terms of SoJ medalling, it could be that Taxman and Stealth pitched a brand new 2d Sonic with all new levels but maybe Haruki or SoA stepped in and said, "okay new zones is a great idea but this game is also a celebration of the classics so we need you to bring back some of the old zones, but get creative, re-imagine them". With the 25th anniversary in mind I think it's understandable SEGA & Sonic Team would want to acknowledge the original classics as well as bringing new content.

I suspect SoJ are staying pretty quiet and mainly just helping with the marketing of Mania in Japan. When is the west going get a Mania train XD

The only sticking point with SoJ might have been the inclusion of Sonic 3 stages due to the music legal issues:

SoA; "Hi SoJ, can we include Sonic 3 stages in Mania..."

SoJ;  "No!"

SoA; "But..."

SoJ; "No!"

SoA; "But fans really love Sonic 3 and it's music and they will pay money for..."

SoJ; "NO!"

SoA  "But this is a celebration of the classics and Sonic 3 is the favorite game of the hardcore fanbase...."

SoJ; "No...........oh await, did you say money? WE LIKE MONEY! Still....................no!"

SoA; "What if the music and level design is changed/re-imagined so as not to cause any further legal issues, so we don't end up losing more money?"

SoJ;  "There's that word again, MONEY. Alright, fine! ...but Iizuka and Hoshino are going to make sure you don't fuck this up so we don't end up getting our ass sued...........again!"

Well, again this would only be the second half of Sonic 3. The first zones are safe from legal trouble.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Whitehead did say that the extra stuff was Segas idea. Them adding old zones is probably why the game is "Longer than Generations"

[Badnik Mechanic]

9 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

They keep mentioning how they're "not allowed" to say or do this or that, but is it SEGA of America higher ups determining this, or is all the orders coming from the East?

Companies have a hierarchical structure you know.

[Chris Knopps]

5 hours ago, EllieBot said:

Taxman confirmed he (and Stealth) pitched the idea of Mania "what if a 2d Sonic game had been made for the SEGA Saturn" to SEGA, around early 2015 is my guess. With the 25th anniversary in mind SEGA likely wanted to do something in terms of a celebration of the classics. Even with SoA on board SoJ would have of course had to give their agreement. SoJ SEGA Games’ CEO, Haruki Satomi (a fan of the classics) who we understand helped greenlight the Sonic CD and Sonic 1&2 remasters likely would have been very keen with the idea of a new 2d Sonic game. So in terms of feedback from SoJ it's probably mainly Haruki.

Iizuka of course relocated to SoA around 2015, I think? I'd imagine to help ensure better communication between SoJ and SoA so that poor games like Rise of Lyric don't happen again. It also make sense for Iizuka and Hoshino to be involved with Mania because they were part of the original Sonic Team, so their advice and input can only be beneficial to the new Sonic Team (Stealth, PWG & Taxman). Also from a marketing point of view seeing Hoshino in the Mania (Sonic 2 inspired) commercial, and him & Iizuka appearing in some of the recent streams to help promote the game can only be a good thing.

In terms of SoJ medalling, it could be that Taxman and Stealth pitched a brand new 2d Sonic with all new levels but maybe Haruki or SoA stepped in and said, "okay new zones is a great idea but this game is also a celebration of the classics so we need you to bring back some of the old zones, but get creative, re-imagine them". With the 25th anniversary in mind I think it's understandable SEGA & Sonic Team would want to acknowledge the original classics as well as bringing new content.

I suspect SoJ are staying pretty quiet and mainly just helping with the marketing of Mania in Japan. When is the west going get a Mania train XD

Rise of Lyric was entirely SEGA of Japan's fault for making deals behind the developers back and meddling when they shouldn't have. It's a well known fact they were minimally involved with that title asides a few yes and no situations.

I... Really don't think so considering what Mr. Iizuka and those at SoJ/ST do to/with the Sonic franchise today. I see their advice presently as more of a negative thing than positive since they really never know what to do with Sonic anymore and never seem to have a specific goal/direction in mind. I find them putting Mania at risk.

I find this trying to shoehorn themselves into the project so they can claim being a bigger part of it. In my opinion they shouldn't be in any of the videos. We should be seeing Whitehead all over the place, the spotlight constantly on him and the main crew involved with Mania instead, it only makes sense and it feels like a right they should have.

The whole "Old stages again!!!" thing was SoJ/ST idea, not SEGA of America if I'm not mistaken. That's why I said their "advice" is more detrimental to Sonic than anything nowadays. It's like having seniors come into the picture and rant on about the "good ol' days" who refuse to focus on the here and now and the future.

(Edit)

I'd also like to point out that letting Mr. Iizuka be involved with a game others were developing resulted in Sonic 4 Episode 2 revolving the forced co-op 69 mess and having stage layouts catering to that forced co-op. All that was his idea.

[Badnik Mechanic]

3 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Rise of Lyric was entirely SEGA of Japan's fault 

They're really not 'Entirely' to blame over that.

Quote

The whole "Old stages again!!!" thing was SoJ/ST idea, not SEGA of America if I'm not mistaken. That's why I said their "advice" is more detrimental to Sonic than anything nowadays. 

And the evidence to back any of this up is...?

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Mayor D said:

They're really not 'Entirely' to blame over that.

Being honest, Nintendo's level of expertise could have been in charge instead of Big Red Button and STILL create the same product based on SEGA of Japan's management of the project. I doubt it would have mattered who was given power to make the title a reality under the conditions SEGA of Japan placed on the game. When you suddenly have it slapped in your face near the finish line that your entire game is suddenly for something it was never really intended for, a decision made without your knowing as well until you're randomly told "Yeah, it's for this now. Hurry up." that game is going to crash and burn.

In all honesty I really love what Rise of Lyric was going for initially and find it a situation that's more of a shame than 06 ever was. Rise of Lyric started out great, but then again, that's for a different thread.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Being honest, Nintendo's level of expertise could have been in charge instead of Big Red Button and STILL create the same product based on SEGA of Japan's management of the project.

Because Nintendo are known for their work and experience with CryEngine 3...

Even if the game wasn't on the Wii U it would still suffer from the boring combat, boring level design, utterly terrible dialogue, crap story and the fact that Lyric is a stupid name for a snake.