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Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

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3 hours ago, JezMM said:

A game's engine is as scalable performance-wise as the developers choose to make it -  the only thing to be concerned about here is Sonic Team's competency in that.  Modern Sonic games on PC have rarely had much in the way of optimisation, requiring a solid up-to-date rig to get good performance on.  Hopefully they're using Switch as the base point and upgrading from there though (if at all, you don't need to use every last drop of power in a PS4, Xbox One or Gaming PC to make a good looking game), but ideally they could make them scalable further back from that for low-end PC users.

(Of course this is more regarding 2017 than Mania but this is where the convo was lol).

It's a common refrain for Nintendo fans to blame third-party developers when they release a downgraded game on Nintendo platforms. However, the fact remains that Nintendo's chronically weak hardware designs have made matters incredibly difficult for third-party developers, when things would be so much easier if Nintendo tried to keep parity with the competition. That for every game which can be scaled down there are a dozen others which will never work on the Switch. Buying a third-party game on a Nintendo platform over other choices is always going to be a risk, more then likely you'll end up stuck with the worse version of the game.

Personally, I hate the thought of Project Sonic 2017 or any other future Sonic game being throttled-down just to accommodate the limitations of Nintendo's hardware. Since the beginning Sonic games have always been about making use of cutting edge technology and pushing the boundaries of what is possible in an AAA platforming game. It's foolish to use the Switch as a 'base point', when even a mid-level PC being made today already greatly exceeds the Switch's power. Thus, the correct target for future Sonic games is to use the PS4 and the Xbox One as the target baseline; allowing those gamers with access to a PS4 Pro, Xbox Scorpio or high-end gaming PC to properly scale-up the Sonic game's performance if they so choose.

Forget the likes of Crysis, Sonic the Hedgehog should be the first name in high-end gaming benchmark tests. I expect no less of Sonic Mania as well; it might be a downloadable 2D but it should still find ways to push available hardware to its absolute limits.

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The truth is Sonic games haven't actually been on the cutting edge of anything technically since Unleashed. That was almost 10 years ago. 

I honestly don't expect much from 2017 in that department so I think the PS4 to switch conversion will be less...impossible than it was during the Wii/PS3 days.

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No one denies that Nintendo's hardware has been weaker than their competitors' and that that causes problems for multiplatform games. But there's still a choice there. It's only "necessary" to make two separate games if they care more about hardware wankery than making a good product.

Also I think it's easy to forget, there was also a PS2 version of Unleashed. That was the lower bound they were working with, and likely responsible for the worst of the compromises.

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anyone else here curious to see 1 eggman boss fight? thats one thing i would like to see before release. they could even show ghz in all it's glory, wouldnt really mind that. but not more. i dont even want to see another zone at this point close to release.

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4 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I hope we get at least a hint of story before the game comes out. That's one thing I'm very curious about and that we don't really know anything about! It could be just what I need to get even more excited.

Story...? Mania...?

Wasn't it already confirmed the story would be minimal and/or behind the scenes basically like most 2D titles in the franchise? It's there but it's not likely worth talking much about since the plot is right there. Run through stages, stop Eggman from collecting certain things, visit old and new places to do so, the end. That's the plot.

(Edit)

Highly doubt we're getting Before/After The Sequel efforts revolving story.

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2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Story...? Mania...?

Wasn't it already confirmed the story would be minimal and/or behind the scenes basically like most 2D titles in the franchise? It's there but it's not likely worth talking much about since the plot is right there. Run through stages, stop Eggman from collecting certain things, visit old and new places to do so, the end. That's the plot.

(Edit)

Highly doubt we're getting Before/After The Sequel efforts revolving story.

Plot was comfirmed like 3&K. With a plot that's good but not super in depth, with transitions between zones and such. 

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Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Story...? Mania...?

Wasn't it already confirmed the story would be minimal and/or behind the scenes basically like most 2D titles in the franchise? It's there but it's not likely worth talking much about since the plot is right there. Run through stages, stop Eggman from collecting certain things, visit old and new places to do so, the end. That's the plot.

Well considering how the story presented in 3&K added into the greatness to that game, it might be minimal but how present it can make the difference. And I'm sure the Mania team can capture the same magic.

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1 minute ago, Soni said:

Well considering how the story presented in 3&K added into the greatness to that game, it might be minimal but how present it can make the difference. And I'm sure the Mania team can capture the same magic.

I don't know, I think it's just the topic of how you progress through stages that's S3&K relevant, not the plot of the game.

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1 hour ago, FReaK said:

anyone else here curious to see 1 eggman boss fight? thats one thing i would like to see before release. they could even show ghz in all it's glory, wouldnt really mind that. but not more. i dont even want to see another zone at this point close to release.

Would be interesting to see Green Hill's Eggman boss which we know is a "walking contraption". Although I'd prefer just a glimp of an Eggman boss. I'd rather not have a boss sequence totally spoiled.

 

39 minutes ago, Soni said:

Well considering how the story presented in 3&K added into the greatness to that game, it might be minimal but how present it can make the difference. And I'm sure the Mania team can capture the same magic.

This.

3&K proves that a simple story done right with a few cutscenes and level transition tells a perfectly good story. There's every chance Mania could tell a story just as compelling and the better visuals thanks to the 32-bit sprites can only help it stand out.

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42 minutes ago, EllieBot said:
3&K proves that a simple story done right with a few cutscenes and level transition tells a perfectly good story. There's every chance Mania could tell a story just as compelling and the better visuals thanks to the 32-bit sprites can only help it stand out.

I think that's setting your expectations too high in a territory that's doubtable to be all that big a focus.

Level transitions, sure. A plot on par with S3&K even, doubtable.

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5 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

So exactly what do you know that we all don't which means you're so adamant this won't be the case?

I don't know anything. I'm just keeping personal expectations low revolving the story of the game. With the 3D portion being as it has been, when it comes to a 2D game the only thing I'm expecting is a purely S1/S2 level plot that's behind the scenes in the manual.

I remember a topic of level transitions happening in the game akin to S3&K but I don't remember anything about cut scenes being clarified/confirmed, could be wrong on that though but I don't recall that part, just the transition discussion.

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1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

I don't know anything. I'm just keeping personal expectations low revolving the story of the game. With the 3D portion being as it has been, when it comes to a 2D game the only thing I'm expecting is a purely S1/S2 level plot that's behind the scenes in the manual.

I remember a topic of level transitions happening in the game akin to S3&K but I don't remember anything about cut scenes being clarified/confirmed, could be wrong on that though but I don't recall that part, just the transition discussion.

I don't think anyone here expects After/Before the Sequel level of cutscenes.

Having a little mini cutscene like the opening to Sonic 3 is an absolutely no-brainer that things like that might be scattered around.

Think about how like the 1v1 against Knuckles ended in just eggman stealing something, and flying out. You follow knuckles and now you're teleporting to sky sanctuary. That's a really really basic cutscene that emphasizes a lot on story with no words, short interactions, minor visual cues, and just results in "story".

We're not talking cutscenes like the intro to Sonic CD where it's a completely different render, we're talking about like "you lose control of your character for a few seconds, knuckles chuckles, a switch gets hit, someone steals something, something happens in the background/distance, you regain control".

Basically a quick scripted moment that doesn't pull away from the story, almost like when you reach sky sanctuary, you can see the death egg appear in the back, fly off, the badniks pop out, and knuckles hits the switch. Only then can you continue.

Or when in Launch Base Act 2 you beat the first boss, get into eggman's egg-o-matic, you lose control of the character. You interact with knuckles, you witness the deathegg fly off, and you get to land on it. That's really cool, its a cutscene, but not like a "temporarily show a pre-render". Does that make sense?

We are guaranteed zone to zone transitions.

It is 99% probable that the game will have occasional 'lose control of character as something momentarily happens' situations.

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31 minutes ago, Gemster312 said:

I don't think anyone here expects After/Before the Sequel level of cutscenes.

Having a little mini cutscene like the opening to Sonic 3 is an absolutely no-brainer that things like that might be scattered around.

Think about how like the 1v1 against Knuckles ended in just eggman stealing something, and flying out. You follow knuckles and now you're teleporting to sky sanctuary. That's a really really basic cutscene that emphasizes a lot on story with no words, short interactions, minor visual cues, and just results in "story".

We're not talking cutscenes like the intro to Sonic CD where it's a completely different render, we're talking about like "you lose control of your character for a few seconds, knuckles chuckles, a switch gets hit, someone steals something, something happens in the background/distance, you regain control".

Basically a quick scripted moment that doesn't pull away from the story, almost like when you reach sky sanctuary, you can see the death egg appear in the back, fly off, the badniks pop out, and knuckles hits the switch. Only then can you continue.

Or when in Launch Base Act 2 you beat the first boss, get into eggman's egg-o-matic, you lose control of the character. You interact with knuckles, you witness the deathegg fly off, and you get to land on it. That's really cool, its a cutscene, but not like a "temporarily show a pre-render". Does that make sense?

We are guaranteed zone to zone transitions.

It is 99% probable that the game will have occasional 'lose control of character as something momentarily happens' situations.

this.

I dont even want more then that. Just keep it as simple as possible, S3K level of storytelling would be perfectly fine for me.

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Something to note:

Yesterday they did the Sonic Valentine's Day Stream and at 51:53 Arin says "Somebody wants the Sonic Mania release date, I don't have that release date for you yet".

Rather than saying something like "there is no release date yet" sounds like a date probably has been chosen, and he keeps saying "yet", which of course can mean anything, but to me it sounds like he knows the date will be revealed soon. I'm pretty confident the SXSW event will release the release date + more (in the stream they said LOTS of big news will be shown, so i doubt its just a date, and they said its hard to show off so much in a single 1 hour panel (granted some of it will be for sonic 2017, but remember, from a business standpoint you dont want to re-direct hype towards sonic 2017 before sonic mania is even out yet)).

Also, they said there will be an exclusive item to whomever goes there in person. Wonder what that is? 

 

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4 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I don't know anything. I'm just keeping personal expectations low revolving the story of the game. With the 3D portion being as it has been, when it comes to a 2D game the only thing I'm expecting is a purely S1/S2 level plot that's behind the scenes in the manual.

I remember a topic of level transitions happening in the game akin to S3&K but I don't remember anything about cut scenes being clarified/confirmed, could be wrong on that though but I don't recall that part, just the transition discussion.

FYDfK0b.gif

I mean, just from looking at the visual fidelity so far, I don't think it would be unreasonable for them to have mini cutscenes like 3&K haha

Also, I'll be going to a preview event for the Switch tomorrow, so it'll be nice to finally get my hands on this game! (assuming it'll be there 😤)

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Oh, I know for a fact Mania is definitely gonna be the game that brings back the Classic styled games back. Then we can finally get a game where we can the Classic styled gameplay in 3D for real!

or something like that, feels like I've been saying this a million times.

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23 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

SEGA not releasing news isn't the issue. I prefer this approach to the Generations approach, or to name another example, the Pokemon Sun/Moon approach.

I'm being slightly facetious. I also prefer that SEGA doesn't overload us with information, but when there's nothing new or relevant to talk about, people tend to latch onto the smaller things and discuss them to death, or blow them up into bigger issues than they really are.

I just see the whole physical release stuff to be a byproduct of that. Like, until SEGA says something further about their distribution plans, is it really worth getting into it over some listings storefronts are making? Nope, probably not. But we'll do it, because what else is there. And that's fine for the most part. It's silly, but unfortunately it gets contentious sometimes.

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This game is playable at those Switch and Play event things, right? I might be able to play it again next week.

Since I tried Studiopolis last time I'll probably go with GHZ this time. I also never got to try the Drop Dash since I didn't know it existed when I first tried it, hehe.

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