Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[BubbleButt TV]

3 hours ago, TimmiT said:

 

I agree with Nick about being nitpicky when it comes to how Sonic controls and feels. Personally, I can still enjoy the Advance and Rush games regardless of it not being quite right, but it was an extreme let down to see just how little effort they put into recreating the physics in Sonic 4. Generations wasn't as offensively bad as Sonic 4, but the feel not being right still bugs me just a little bit.

Maybe if Generations had the Badnik bounce it would've bugged me less, I love that stuff haha 

[Chris Knopps]

26 minutes ago, BubbleButt TV said:

I agree with Nick about being nitpicky when it comes to how Sonic controls and feels. Personally, I can still enjoy the Advance and Rush games regardless of it not being quite right, but it was an extreme let down to see just how little effort they put into recreating the physics in Sonic 4. Generations wasn't as offensively bad as Sonic 4, but the feel not being right still bugs me just a little bit.

Maybe if Generations had the Badnik bounce it would've bugged me less, I love that stuff haha 

...We need a stylistic squish and stretch animation when Sonic bounces on objects and enemies in a future 2D game, give it that toony CD vibe to see Sonic in a ball form flattening then springing back up when he lands and bounces off stuff.

That's how balls work...

[BubbleButt TV]

39 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

...We need a stylistic squish and stretch animation when Sonic bounces on objects and enemies in a future 2D game, give it that toony CD vibe to see Sonic in a ball form flattening then springing back up when he lands and bounces off stuff.

That's how balls work...

Funnily enough, Sonic Lost World had some really bouncy animation which looked pretty good, although if Sonic Team really want super bouncy and expressive animations they should look at how Ratchet & Clank (2016) handled it.

 

(Both of these clips come from videos by Super Bunnyhop, which are pretty good and definitely worth checking out sometime)

• The First Levels of Sonic Games
• Ratchet & Clank (The Remake) Ratchet & Clank (The Original) & Ratchet & Clank (The Movie)

EDIT: Didn't realise how bad that Ratchet gif would look ?

[Maggins]

So, if Knuckles starts Mirage Saloon at a different point than Sonic and Tails, does that mean he has a different act 1 boss encounter? 

[FReaK]

4 hours ago, Maggins said:

So, if Knuckles starts Mirage Saloon at a different point than Sonic and Tails, does that mean he has a different act 1 boss encounter? 

possible. I can see them going the marble garden route, where knux had an entirely different boss fight.

[CleverSonicUsername]

Way I see it there's three possibilities:

• It's a different boss
• It's the same boss but takes place in a different location
• There is a cutscene of sorts that puts Knuckles into a different starting location for Act 2

[molul]

I'm guessing that the boss will be the same, just in a different place. It was like that in S3&K. Maybe the boss attacks vary because of Knuckles' jump height. 

[Psychicmoose103]

It probably varies

Some knuckles bosses are the same, but in a different place as he is forced to go his own route. It could be a harder version than sonic.

Or, it's a completely different boss. I'm gonna guess the first option for act one, I don't think there were any harder mid bosses in 3&K

[Gemster312]

5 hours ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

It probably varies

Some knuckles bosses are the same, but in a different place as he is forced to go his own route. It could be a harder version than sonic.

Or, it's a completely different boss. I'm gonna guess the first option for act one, I don't think there were any harder mid bosses in 3&K

Mushroom Hill Zone mid-boss for knuckles was harder (that's not saying much since it's still violently easy). For Sonic, the chopped logs only flew in a straight line. For Knuckles, it alternated between straight logs and bouncing logs (spooky).

Also, in Lava Reef Zone sonic using his Insta-Shield could reach the weird bubble shooting parts of the boss on the left/right side of the screen (wtf are those anyways). Knux was too short on the jumps.

So... yeah, there were still "harder" bosses, but barely.

[Salamander]

I think Marble Garden Zone and Sky Sanctuary were the only zones where Knuckles had a completely different boss entirely - both arguably by necessity as the story more or less ruled out the originals.  There are a number of other interesting differences between Knuckles's story and the Sonic & Tails route, but I suspect it's not really relevant to dwell on them here.  I have a feeling that Mania will probably smooth it out a little - with either less, or possibly more variation between characters in boss battles.  But that's also because I'm expecting all three characters to have essentially the same story, just with different routes created by their particular abilities.

[TheOcelot]

14 minutes ago, FFWF said:

I think Marble Garden Zone and Sky Sanctuary were the only zones where Knuckles had a completely different boss entirely - both arguably by necessity as the story more or less ruled out the originals.  There are a number of other interesting differences between Knuckles's story and the Sonic & Tails route, but I suspect it's not really relevant to dwell on them here.  I have a feeling that Mania will probably smooth it out a little - with either less, or possibly more variation between characters in boss battles.  But that's also because I'm expecting all three characters to have essentially the same story, just with different routes created by their particular abilities.

I'd prefer it more if Knuckles-only routes are optional to Knuckles and that he's not forced to go through these routes which were often disappointingly leaner for Knuckles in 3&K. They need to make Knuckles routes vast with multiple routes etc.

I also like the idea that different routes could lead to a different type of mini-boss fight or Eggman boss. Would be interesting if Sonic & Tails could take alternative routes which would mean they can also end up fighting different bosses. Both Knuckles and Tails (also Sonic with Tails AI assisted) could access the extra routes added to the Sonic 1&2 remasters, so it would be cool if they could access some of Knuckles routes.

[Gemster312]

4 minutes ago, FFWF said:

I think Marble Garden Zone and Sky Sanctuary were the only zones where Knuckles had a completely different boss entirely - both arguably by necessity as the story more or less ruled out the originals.  There are a number of other interesting differences between Knuckles's story and the Sonic & Tails route, but I suspect it's not really relevant to dwell on them here.  I have a feeling that Mania will probably smooth it out a little - with either less, or possibly more variation between characters in boss battles.  But that's also because I'm expecting all three characters to have essentially the same story, just with different routes created by their particular abilities.

As multiple interviews have stated, the team making Sonic Mania really really wants to make "the sonic game we've all been waiting for". Or, like, the true sequel to S3&K. The developers want to take everything that was great in s3&k, and make it better. I personally believe they will make each character get their own story (or at least Sonic and Knux will have different stories). If they are already taking different routes through the zones (diff bosses/locations), wouldn't that kind of imply that they are potentially going different ways/have different goals? Like, why didn't knux just take the higher path sonic did. You could say "well knux just couldn't jump high enough", but I think that's a poor excuse, and "because knuckles couldn't jump high enough, now we need to make a whole new section for him a new boss encounter due to his stubby legs".

Since the team's motivation is to make everything great into perfect, i don't see why they would even consider having only 1 story for all 3 characters. Especially being a probably relatively short 2D platformer (shorter than common-day 3D adventures), adding multiple stories would give more replay value than "oh i can do the exact same thing, but now with a different colored animal".

Like, maybe Eggman sent mecha sonic to steal the master emerald, so now we have two plots:

1. Sonic trying to stop eggman in his evil plans

2. Knuckles trying to get the emerald back from Metal Sonic

Since eggman and metal sonic are probably going through the same places together, it would make sense the characters travel to the same zones, with some variance in the pathways, but now it's like 2 stories following 1 general path.

I honestly believe people are underestimating just how much love and passion the Taxman and Co. are putting into this project and how they want to not just "make another 2D sonic game", but make a "true sequeal", something to blow S3&K out of the water. Granted, to most people, the classic games might still be better just because of the simple fact of Nostalgia, but this is supposed to be a "what if they didn't stop making 2D sonic games, and kept growing".

Personally, downgrading to a single story where you can pick any of the 3 characters to play it sounds... cheap. Multiple stories between the characters on the other hand sounds like a really good excuse to add additional content and unique paths, encounters, and mix/match flavors to really enrich the experience, so I don't see why they wouldn't (other than time constraints).

[expansivelovestories]

21 hours ago, EllieBot said:

#BYTHEMANIA

Yay, we are all Sonic Maniacs.

Sonic Mania: Made by Maniacs for the maniacs.

...and, yes he's right. Mania plays great and will turn out awesome.

I've just finished watching this twitch broadcast from yesterday that he has done (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123874466)

He mentions playing through Green Hill Act 2, in October, and that there are some details he can actually mention although he was not allowed to record on video; but no one on the stream asks him to get too detailed, which is OK (it will probably be officially revealed at SXSW)!  He does say that the Act 2 boss is incredible! 

I've relocated where it is in the stream, it is discussed with no spoiler type information starting just after 43:40

[TheOcelot]

12 minutes ago, expansivelovestories said:

I've just finished watching this twitch broadcast from yesterday that he has done (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123874466)

He mentions playing through Green Hill Act 2, in October, and that there are some details he can actually mention although he was not allowed to record on video; but no one on the stream asks him to get too detailed, which is OK (it will probably be officially revealed at SXSW)!  He does say that the Act 2 boss is incredible! 

I've relocated where it is in the stream, it is discussed with no spoiler type information starting just after 43:40

"In GH Act2 the fire shield burns the horizontal rotating-spike platform which breaks and reveals new routes". NICE!

 

[Solister]

I found something that can be the game requirements for PC, I don't know if is official:

Minimum:

Processor:Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz or AMD Athlon 64 3000+

Graphics:Nvidia GeForce 8600 GS or AMD Radeon HD 3650

RAM: 1GB

 

Predicted Requiriments:

 

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz or AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+

Graphics: Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT or AMD Radeon HD 3800 series

RAM: 2GB

Found it in Game-Debate.com, you can also try the "Can I run it" section where avails your PC conditions and compare with game requirements.

I also found Sonic 2017 requirements, check the Sonic 2017 topic where I also post,

[Gemster312]

44 minutes ago, EllieBot said:

"In GH Act2 the fire shield burns the horizontal rotating-spike platform which breaks and reveals new routes". NICE!

 

Sounds like that thing from the article when we saw the first screenshot of Green Hill zone act 2 where it hinted to use the fire shield on those rotating-spike platforms a "see what happens".

Cool to know it brings in alternative pathways

[Psychicmoose103]

2 hours ago, Gemster312 said:

Mushroom Hill Zone mid-boss for knuckles was harder (that's not saying much since it's still violently easy). For Sonic, the chopped logs only flew in a straight line. For Knuckles, it alternated between straight logs and bouncing logs (spooky).

Also, in Lava Reef Zone sonic using his Insta-Shield could reach the weird bubble shooting parts of the boss on the left/right side of the screen (wtf are those anyways). Knux was too short on the jumps.

So... yeah, there were still "harder" bosses, but barely.

Well, I also mean stuff like

angel island act 1 dropping bombs

angel island act 2 boss shoots more

ice cap act 2 moving the platform towards him

and other stuff like this

[Gemster312]

7 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

Well, I also mean stuff like

angel island act 1 dropping bombs

angel island act 2 boss shoots more

ice cap act 2 moving the platform towards him

and other stuff like this

Yeah, i understand S3 bosses legit had like their own "additions" to make them harder, S&K really didin't do that other than the "add a different way logs can move in the Mushroom hill zone act 1 miniboss".

I hope Knux again is the "harder mode" of the game

Edit: Funny enough, although Knuckles was supposed to be the harder more, I beat the Knuckles version of the game multiple times before ever beating the Sonic route (the stupid barrel halted any progression for me on the sonic route). So, in a way, since the Sonic route was a "different/newer experience", I'm less good at it, thus making it kind of sort of the harder mode for me haha

[Maxtiis]

On the topic of Sonic 3's bosses, I hope Mania takes advantage of the unique ways you can fight them. I've always thought Hydrocity's Act 2 boss was one of the best boss fights to come out of a 2-D platformer just for how many ways you can get hits in, like riding that water current he brings up, using his depth charges to fly up and continuously bounce on him and having Tails fly you up there immediately. If some of Mania's bosses can bring that kind of variety, it'd be a real treat.

Here's hoping the bosses from the re-imagined levels will have some sort of bizarre alteration to their pattern, so we're not just fighting the same one's from the old games with better sprite work.

[expansivelovestories]

It isn't fully uncertain but as mentioned, during the stream of Retro Sonic and Sonic 3 & Knuckles (https://twitter.com/Babylonian/status/834280582804746243 ) Nick offerred to describe a bit about Green Hill Act 2, but, only if someone on the stream wanted to hear about it!  He was able to play through it in October and was told that he could talk about at least many parts of it, but just hadn't had the time/location where it made sense until then!

I believe it's possible for someone who is interested to contact him via twitter, to perhaps receive a bit of information via direct messaging (In the stream he mentions having an awareness that some people may not want spoilers) and then, it could be posted here, or, Sonic Retro etc in spoiler tags.   

It isn't quite a numbers puzzle, not that those are overly complex, but, this is very simple and direct in comparison!! It is just up to whether someone is able to contact him or not!  

[YuTwo]

On 2/22/2017 at 1:52 PM, EllieBot said:

"In GH Act2 the fire shield burns the horizontal rotating-spike platform which breaks and reveals new routes".

I seem to recall that this concept was supposed to be used in Sonic 2. The Buzzer badnik from Emerald Hill would shoot out a fireball and if it managed to land on a wooden bridge it would burn it down to possibly create a new route.

I did some digging around and found the concept art that shows the process:

This fireball sprite which was unused is linked to this. The black part on this sprite is most likely the log that is being surrounded by the fire.

I think it's fun to see how they decided to bring back an unused concept from the classic games. I wonder if they will do more.

[Salamander]

8 hours ago, Maxtiis said:

Here's hoping the bosses from the re-imagined levels will have some sort of bizarre alteration to their pattern, so we're not just fighting the same one's from the old games with better sprite work.

I don't think you'll have to worry about that.  The details we've heard about what is almost certainly the Green Hill Zone boss make it sound quite different - a "giant walking contraption" in a boss room with "handy undulations" in the floor - and while the miniboss is clearly referencing the original boss, the execution has evolved considerably.  So it's quite possible for reimagined zones that they're reworking the original boss concepts into new minibosses, while the new bosses have license to do something even more radical.

[Psychicmoose103]

2 hours ago, FFWF said:

I don't think you'll have to worry about that.  The details we've heard about what is almost certainly the Green Hill Zone boss make it sound quite different - a "giant walking contraption" in a boss room with "handy undulations" in the floor - and while the miniboss is clearly referencing the original boss, the execution has evolved considerably.  So it's quite possible for reimagined zones that they're reworking the original boss concepts into new minibosses, while the new bosses have license to do something even more radical.

The idea of a walker kind of reminds me of palm tree panic. We know this level gets ideas from emerald hill, so maybe that's where the design is from.

[Chris Knopps]

SPOILER ALERT!!!

-A Prototype Of Eggman's Walker From Sonic Adventure 2 Confirmed As First Boss-

Find out where it all began in Sonic Mania...

[Kintor]

33 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

SPOILER ALERT!!!

-A Prototype Of Eggman's Walker From Sonic Adventure 2 Confirmed As First Boss-

Find out where it all began in Sonic Mania...

The final boss of Sonic Chaos has already got you covered: