Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[Psychicmoose103]

Guys I just thought of something crazy, and i'm curious what you think.

So you know how in 3K, there is seamless act transition, but when there is a zone transition, the cutscene will play, the screen will go to black, and then the next zone will start. What if there is seamless zone transition? What would you guys think of that? 

[expansivelovestories]

4 hours ago, TimmiT said:

Just to point out the stuff that isn't accurate: he mistakes the remasters Christian developed for "modded ROM versions" and thinks that "Tee Lopez" worked on those as well. Considering he gets stuff like that wrong, it wouldn't surprise me if that Sega rep wasn't actually well informed enough to talk about Sonic Mania and just talked out of his ass.

Thank you for posting this interpretation here too!!  

It is good advice that we would be cautious with this specific set of very interesting but also fairly abstract information as most of it has not been presented before.  It's kind of the opposite of the Sonic 2 special stage pipe mention in the recent interview where basically that was information many people did not want to be accurate!  

8 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

Guys I just thought of something crazy, and i'm curious what you think.

So you know how in 3K, there is seamless act transition, but when there is a zone transition, the cutscene will play, the screen will go to black, and then the next zone will start. What if there is seamless zone transition? What would you guys think of that? 

I feel like some of Mania's cutscenes will be among peoples' new favorites! 

What you are describing must at least be possible with the programming they have available but maybe it will be done in the traditional way just due to how strangely memorable the screen turning off and on is within the original games!   

Thinking about your idea and what we weren't able to see in the original games, perhaps with Flying Battery, a good example is between Sky Sanctuary and Death Egg it was not possible to see how Sonic or Tails actually finds their way to the inside, it is easy to imagine but it is possible to actually see more movement and progress during cutscenes with current day game resources!   

[Jango]

I just hope running on water returns.

[Psychicmoose103]

12 minutes ago, Jango said:

I just hope running on water returns.

This.

[CleverSonicUsername]

So what you're saying is, like in Sonic 2 (more or less) when Sonic gets transported to the Death Egg? Cause if so, then I hope not. The time between levels should be expedient, the whole point of the Sonic 3 act transitions was to preserve the pacing of a zone and give you the feeling that things were moving ahead more quickly. Longer cutscenes is the last thing I'd want, just keep them short and sweet except for very major moments in the story.

[Osmium]

I've talked about it before in other places but I always thought a zone centred around an electrical plant would be cool. Act 1 would involve going through the insides of buildings and dealing with turbines and other things, and act 2 would be outside travelling long distances over huge electrical wires that intersect and intertwine, and would include going through utility poles where there could be some more complex platforming as opposed to the mostly smooth wires. There could be sections of exposed electronics that only Sonic with a well timed insta-shield could make it through (even though there is no insta-shield in Mania, shit). idk, it would be cool. 

[Psychicmoose103]

10 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

So what you're saying is, like in Sonic 2 (more or less) when Sonic gets transported to the Death Egg? Cause if so, then I hope not. The time between levels should be expedient, the whole point of the Sonic 3 act transitions was to preserve the pacing of a zone and give you the feeling that things were moving ahead more quickly. Longer cutscenes is the last thing I'd want, just keep them short and sweet except for very major moments in the story.

What I kinda meant was like it doesn't fade to black. An example, in sandopolis, you fall down a pit. The screen fades to black, and then you keep falling into lavareef. What I'm saying is like the screen wouldn't fade to black, and you would see the background transition into lava reef and then land in lava reef without ever stopping, to increase the flow.

[Salamander]

That would be interesting, but I imagine it would depend on how the game stores and loads each zone's graphics.

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 hour ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

What I kinda meant was like it doesn't fade to black. An example, in sandopolis, you fall down a pit. The screen fades to black, and then you keep falling into lavareef. What I'm saying is like the screen wouldn't fade to black, and you would see the background transition into lava reef and then land in lava reef without ever stopping, to increase the flow.

Considering you'll be hopping between games, that seems like it could come across as jarring and sudden if not done very tactfully.

[Blue Blood]

While cool in theory, as FFWF said it depends on how things are stored and loaded in the game. But even if it is technically feasible, it may not always be aesthetically suitable - they'd have to find a way of subtly changing all of the background and foreground art at once. This isn't an issue for simple act transitions, even in special cases like in Ice Cap where the act 1 boss is technically fought in act 2. The fade to black between zones helps also helps to keep zones feeling separate. I'm happy with the act transitions remaining seamless and the zine transitions to be handled as they were in S3K. Either way though, it wouldn't make a difference.

[JezMM]

I think for THIS game, not fading out between zones is gonna be an impossibility, due to the fact that the returning zones are just so far apart in geography.

Unless we have a zone set on a moving location like Flying Battery between every single zone that was originally far apart, it'll seem like these levels are all located right next to each other otherwise.

 

But maybe in a fully original game, it'd be neat to see.  You'd prolly still need to use at least jump cuts on occasion to change to a very different location - for example boarding the Death Egg after Sky Sanctuary in S3&K.  In order to show what Sonic is getting into, the Death Egg needed to be visible in the background, but you couldn't have him leap straight from the tower into the first corridor of Death Egg Act 1 without it looking like he's on some location in the foreground that isn't the Death Egg.  In that situation you'd need to have him leap off camera, or have a custom animation where he travels into the background and goes inside the structure, then we jump cut to Death Egg Act 1 without a fade-to-black to show him arriving inside.  I could see that being a neat effect that wouldn't really go against the idea of keeping it transition free.

Though if they DID manage to do it without any jump cuts, AND the levels were designed to never (theoretically) occupy the same space as one another (no endless loops either), it'd be pretty friggin' fun to map out an entire Sonic game as one giant connected level.

[Celestia]

This is making me even more curious about how the returning levels are going to fit into the story. What reason are we gonna have for going to 'em all? I mean, obviously the answer is "Eggman's there," but it'll be interesting to see if there's an actual reason for that.

[Meta77]

3 minutes ago, Celestia said:

This is making me even more curious about how the returning levels are going to fit into the story. What reason are we gonna have for going to 'em all? I mean, obviously the answer is "Eggman's there," but it'll be interesting to see if there's an actual reason for that.

Most likely he is retrieving bits and pieces from past machines tobmake a mega mech lol I'd like to fight the last boss in sonic and knuckles  again powered up

[expansivelovestories]

2 hours ago, Celestia said:

This is making me even more curious about how the returning levels are going to fit into the story. What reason are we gonna have for going to 'em all? I mean, obviously the answer is "Eggman's there," but it'll be interesting to see if there's an actual reason for that.

Yes   There almost certainly but otherwise hopefully will be some wonderful cutscenes of arriving and departing each island similar to how it is in S3K!  Seeing what must be South Island and Westside Island together in the background of the title screen has me most excited for Sonic Mania!  It is part of the original games' feel that there were these unique islands.

It is also a good reminder relative to future games by this team, that there are either many entire continents, ( or, just billions of islands? ) , that have never been visited!  

[Psychicmoose103]

Wasn't there some sort of new item instead of the super emeralds added? Maybe that has to do with the plot?

[Salamander]

In reference to a news post that's shown up on the front page, I thought it might be worthwhile to revisit this statement from Christian Whitehead on Sonic Retro:

Quote

No Woody Zone sorry! Mirage Saloon was an obvious choice since Desert Dazzle didn't get its time to shine, and Dust Hill is legendary. But our other new Zones are focusing on new tropes entirely.

 

[expansivelovestories]

An interesting suggestion appearing in the community after the Heavies' silhouette artwork was shown is that the possible Heavy Ninja is connected to a zone idea that was drawn on paper but not considered for Sonic 1!  That is what came to mind, that there could be some zones that would be essentially new but also bring long dormant creative ideas to life!

[Psychicmoose103]

1 hour ago, expansivelovestories said:

An interesting suggestion appearing in the community after the Heavies' silhouette artwork was shown is that the possible Heavy Ninja is connected to a zone idea that was drawn on paper but not considered for Sonic 1!  That is what came to mind, that there could be some zones that would be essentially new but also bring long dormant creative ideas to life!

Did they find out what the zone was? Is it like a dojo or something?

Just found out it was going to be a mountain water level. This would be cool to see!

Edited April 7, 2017 by Psychicmoose103

[expansivelovestories]

Click for full size!

Yes!  This at least among the type of unused earlier game ideas that would not in any way be considered an old zone trope!  It basically exists either in this drawing alone or in a few others that remain in the archives.  The team would basically be creating the actual complete zone from scratch.    

http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(16-bit)#Level_Concept_Art

^^ It is interesting that some of these really look like they would work well specifically with Mania's expanded graphical capabilities. 

[Psychicmoose103]

So what do you guys think the story of this game is gonna be? Here is my thoughts

 

So eggman is going to use the new item to try and take over the world. Sonic and Tails need to gather the chaos emeralds and stop him. And that egg robo from Sonic 3 is messing with Knuckles again. Maybe knuckles will be tricked, the time stones may be involved, or metal sonic will return, but it's hard to really think of a detailed plot because we don't know much yet. What do you guys think?

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Isn't there supposed to be a special reason we're revisiting old zones? That's probably the main thing I'm wondering about with regards to the story.

[Celestia]

Okay I think I have a prediction for the plot, and the reason for revisiting old zones:

Spoiler

Sonic's dad, Naoto Ohshima, calls up Sonic to tell him that his other dad, Yuji Naka, is feeling down; the only way to cheer up Mr. Naka is to travel to all sorts of fun classic locations and some new ones I guess and find the seven copies of Rodea the Sky Soldier™.

 

[Salamander]

9 hours ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

So what do you guys think the story of this game is gonna be? Here is my thoughts

 

So eggman is going to use the new item to try and take over the world. Sonic and Tails need to gather the chaos emeralds and stop him. And that egg robo from Sonic 3 is messing with Knuckles again. Maybe knuckles will be tricked, the time stones may be involved, or metal sonic will return, but it's hard to really think of a detailed plot because we don't know much yet. What do you guys think?

It's very hard to predict because, while we know broadly what some of the new elements are, we don't know anything about them; a "new item" could be almost anything.  But if we're trying to incorporate the old locations into the plot, then...

Eggman has a diabolical plan to revive his engineering empire using the [number of classic levels] power gizmos that were knocked out of his machines during some of his previous clashes with Sonic.  Sonic and his friends catch wind of Eggman's evil scheme and pursue him to put a stop to it, though the old zones where Eggman is searching for his power gizmos and the new zones where he sends his new squad of Hard-Boiled Heavies to beat the hedgehog.  Tails is around because he's Sonic's friend, Knuckles is along for the ride because he wants revenge.

...Alternatively, the idea that these are literally Eggman's artificial recreations of old zones has a lot of potential, too; maybe the new item is some kind of terraformer, like the Badnik Generators in CD.  I'd also suggest that Eggman just flat-out rebuilding an old zone is probably canon for Flying Battery, at least.  In that light, the final level could be some kind of super-meta game environment.

[Psychicmoose103]

2 hours ago, FFWF said:

It's very hard to predict because, while we know broadly what some of the new elements are, we don't know anything about them; a "new item" could be almost anything.  But if we're trying to incorporate the old locations into the plot, then...

Eggman has a diabolical plan to revive his engineering empire using the [number of classic levels] power gizmos that were knocked out of his machines during some of his previous clashes with Sonic.  Sonic and his friends catch wind of Eggman's evil scheme and pursue him to put a stop to it, though the old zones where Eggman is searching for his power gizmos and the new zones where he sends his new squad of Hard-Boiled Heavies to beat the hedgehog.  Tails is around because he's Sonic's friend, Knuckles is along for the ride because he wants revenge.

...Alternatively, the idea that these are literally Eggman's artificial recreations of old zones has a lot of potential, too; maybe the new item is some kind of terraformer, like the Badnik Generators in CD.  I'd also suggest that Eggman just flat-out rebuilding an old zone is probably canon for Flying Battery, at least.  In that light, the final level could be some kind of super-meta game environment.

I think Taxman said they are treating the areas "like a living breathing world, and stuff grows in it" with this info, it seems like that green hill zone is the same green hill. However this makes sense for flying battery. Maybe Sonic and Tails just went back to Green Hill after 3&K, maybe because Sonic lives there, or Sonic wanted to show Tails.

[molul]

My take on Sonic Mania's plot is that Robotnik has created the Sonic Island (seen on the title screen) with artificial remakes of some well known zones. Why? Not sure. Perhaps Robotnik needs Sonic to find or do something on these zones.