Ryannumber1gamer

Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

6415 posts in this topic

It is good to reach such strong appreciation for Hyrdocity!!!  There are many zones from Sonic 3 that would be very challenging to improve or expand, and quite a few from Sonic & Knuckles.  

I think that Azure Lake as a full two acts and perhaps with underwater sections that are similar to Hydrocity would be astonishing! 

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I'm a bit surprised no one's mentioned Sonic CD's Tidal Tempest which is a far better underwater-Labyrinth like stage. You can finish the acts more quickly. The level design is still maze-like, but it's more interesting, less restricted/more fluid, definitely more open. There are more multiple routes. If you take the highest routes in the first two acts you can avoid most of the water. Visually I think TT looks a lot better. Has a more forgiving boss-fight and really cool music, especially Jp present & NA bad future. It's a better stage in just about every way.

Not that Labyrinth zone is a bad level. Slow yes, a little bit frustrating at times perhaps, but once you learn the layout it's not that difficult.

I'm kind of expecting Hydrocity to get the nod, but considering it's already a near-perfect stage I think Tidal Tempest could be a good choice.

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1 minute ago, TailsMania said:

I'm a bit surprised no one's mentioned Sonic CD's Tidal Tempest which is a far better version of Labyrinth zone. You can finish the acts more quickly. The level design is still maze-like, but it's more interesting, less restricted/more fluid, definitely more open. There are more multiple routes. If you take the highest routes in the first two acts you can avoid most of the water. Visually I think TT looks a lot better. Has a more forgiving boss-fight and really cool music, especially Jp present & NA bad future. It's a better stage in just about every way.

Not that Labyrinth zone is a bad level. Slow yes, little bit frustrating at times perhaps, but once you learn the layout of it shouldn't give you much trouble.

I'm kind of expecting Hydrocity to get the nod, but considering it's already a near-perfect stage I think Tidal Tempest w=could be a good choice.

Personally I really really loathed Tidal Tempest. I'd rather take Labyrinth Zone over Tidal Tempest any day.

That's my opinion mostly because i don't know the layout too well, so it becomes more of a "solve this maze/puzzle whilst underwater".

Additionally, there were multiple locations where you could go "behind the wall" in Tidal Tempest, so half the time i didn't even know what was a legit wall and what wasn't. If going fast, you can easily accidentally go through those walls and find your way through. If you're slow in water, you won't ever "accidentally" go through a wall because controlling your momentum is painfully slow underwater, be controllable enough to avoid randomly running into walls.

Additionally i liked that Labyrinth was really "underwater tunnels" or "passages" rather than big open empty water areas with puzzles.

I could never tell how deep under i was, and really not sure whether i had to backtrack. Sonic CD really liked the idea of "oops, this is a deadend. Go left to find your way out", which is extra horrible in water sections when the last thing you want is to go backwards whilst underwater.

Granted, this is just my personal opinion, and im sure they could probably avoid such level design to ensure a faster smoother gameplay result, and the music is sexy too, but i still feel like Labyrinth is more popularly known for its crappy water design and is well overdue for a remake. :P

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Actually a dead-end forcing you to go backwards is the last thing you want in a Sonic game, period.

 

Being underwater just makes it worse, because it's slower...

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I don't mind the inclusion of Labyrinth.

 

I would have said this if the Flying Battery reveal trailer didn't showed that the classic levels aren't really that re-imagined :V

Sorry, I'm being salty, but I did lost some faith in the re-imagined zones after the FBZ trailer... I know we only saw like, 15 seconds of it, and Green Hill act 2 do have different art and gimmicks, but I was expecting some BIG changes. Gonna keep my expectations a little lower from now on.

 

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Just now, Jango said:

I don't mind the inclusion of Labyrinth.

 

I would have said this if the Flying Battery reveal trailer didn't showed that the classic levels aren't really that re-imagined :V

Sorry, I'm being salty, but I did lost some faith in the re-imagined zones after the FBZ trailer... I know we only saw like, 15 seconds of it, and Green Hill act 2 do have different art and gimmicks, but I was expecting some BIG changes. Gonna keep my expectations a little lower from now on.

 

I honestly believe, as they have stated again and again and again, they do NOT want to reveal like... anything new AT ALL. They want it all to be a surprise. That's why they showed off the most similar parts of FBZ. Aaron keeps saying in the streams that they are super cautious to not show off anything new.

They needed to reveal a new zone (the fans were getting antsy), and thus they showed off a bit of FBZ. They didn't want all the surprises revealed (that's why the video is barely 22 seconds long) so they showed footage of memorable parts that are recognizable, and a few few few minor details of what's new.

Honestly, I was not at all dissapointed. They have made it clear that they don't want to show anything new just yet. They wanted to show off a new zone, but how can they without spoiling anything? By showing the zone in action, in the sections that look most identical.

Keep your faith bud, this game won't dissapoint. Just look at Green Hill Zone Act 2 :)

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Would hate Labyrinth being in the game. In my opinion, it's one of the worst Sonic zones, ever. Awful level design. The game literally becomes the exact thing that Sonic mocked in the first place. It always has made me completely want to stop playing Sonic 1 after Spring Yard. Marble is already a huge pace killer, but Labyrinth is a whole other level of bad to me. Aquatic Ruin and Hydro City I'm down for, though. 

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1 hour ago, TailsMania said:

I'm a bit surprised no one's mentioned Sonic CD's Tidal Tempest which is a far better underwater-Labyrinth like stage. You can finish the acts more quickly. The level design is still maze-like, but it's more interesting, less restricted/more fluid, definitely more open. There are more multiple routes. If you take the highest routes in the first two acts you can avoid most of the water. Visually I think TT looks a lot better. Has a more forgiving boss-fight and really cool music, especially Jp present & NA bad future. It's a better stage in just about every way.

Not that Labyrinth zone is a bad level. Slow yes, a little bit frustrating at times perhaps, but once you learn the layout it's not that difficult.

I'm kind of expecting Hydrocity to get the nod, but considering it's already a near-perfect stage I think Tidal Tempest could be a good choice.

I'm actually a big fan of the overall aesthetic of Tidal Tempest, not to mention the boss fight.  How much of the former is simply nostalgia is hard to say, but it has that typically CD use of bold, bright colour that makes it really stand out among water levels, and the music is surprisingly relaxing; it becomes a slower-paced level, but in a way that feels appropriately easy-going rather than just sluggish.  Like I said, maybe it's just nostalgia... but I genuinely think the zone has one of the most elegant boss fights in the series, where attack and defence are completely united.  I'd really like to see an improved Tidal Tempest in Mania... although I don't honestly expect it to happen; I think it has a chance, but I'm expecting Stardust Speedway or maybe Quartz Quadrant first.

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Honestly, as much as I adore Hydrocity you are completely right. I adore it because it is basically perfect (and I want a tee lopes remix haha).  Maybe the transition to Labyrinth (if it appears) could be falling from a bridge in Green Hill after the act 2 boss, as a reference to Angel Island and Hydrocity.

It would also be interesting to have Wacky Workbench to be redeemed in Mania. To quote The Sonic Show "Instead of using all the gimmicks to stop you and heed your progress, use them to propel you forward, and make it a high speed stage"

Not to mention, it is probably one of the most original stages in CD. Not that the others aren't, but it doesn't seem inspired by anything from Sonic 1. (Palmtree Panic = Green Hill, Collision Chaos = Springyard, Tidal Tempest = Labyrinth, Stardust Speedway = Starlight, Metallic Madness = Scrap Brain) This also leaves Quartz Quadrant and Marble as not really having a parallel.

Also, to support my other claim, I don't think Marble and Springyard will be getting in. Reason why is because since Sonic 1 had the least enemy diversity, and if these two stages were getting in, they would keep their exclusive enemies (bat brain and roller) exclusive to them, but they appear in Green Hill and Mirage Saloon, as a way to be like, "Hey, these are interesting enemies! Instead of leaving them out, lets move them to different levels!" This would leave Labyrinth, Scrap Brain, and Starlight as the possible second stage in Mania from Sonic 1. As much as I would love a rainy night Starlight zone, or a broken down Scrap Brain, Labyrinth is also possible, as it is very iconic and has some interesting ideas (being a trap filled maze. It would also be great to show off how different the levels are from their originals by making it fast paced and fun)

 

It would also be really cool to see people get super pissed about seeing the title card, and then having a ton of fun as they turn labyrinth into something as great as Hydrocity (So I also hope they do not reveal this stage before launch haha, because you know people would jump to conclusions)

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Like I said, anything they post just gets taken as "this is in Mania" which is kinda silly, but also it seems like a lot of Labyrinth stuff has been tweeted out over the last month or so. If it's not in the game then that's awesome. Tidal Tempest was Labyrinth done right, and we already had a remake of it in Sonic 4. I've had my fill, and Hydrocity is such a more dynamic level.

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Heres what I would like to see

Sonic 1 - Green Hill and Starlight

Sonic 2 - Oil Ocean and Mystic Cave

Sonic 3 - Hydrocity and Ice Cap

Sonic & Knuckles - Flying Battery and Lava Reef

Sonic CD - Quartz Quadrant/A Good Wacky Workbench or Stardust Speedway

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While I have my preferences, I don't think I could be disappointed by any choice of CD level.  I really like the whole game's striking colour range and almost excessively ornamented visuals, and both soundtracks are refreshingly original.  I am under no obligation to comment on level design as they'll just change it anyway!

All I ask for from everything else is a diverse selection of levels, unlike Generations with its roster of cities and green hills.

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I wonder which version of the music they'll use for the CD level... Maybe act 1 JP/EU and act 2 US? Speak for yourself, but I'll be very sad (not disappointed, sad) if they don't pick QQZ. I need remixes of it, like, injected in my veins. It's in my top 3 favorite Sonic songs.

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2 hours ago, TailsMania said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Posted Image

 

For those who don't get it: It's a herring (as in, the fish) with a red tint.

As in, the Labyrinth tweet is a red herring.

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1 hour ago, TailsMania said:

We know Tee Lopes was just having a bit of fun teasing the picture of Labyrinth zone.

This is what Taxman said about it:

  Reveal hidden contents

Posted Image

 

Because it's not Labyrinth Zone—it's Lost Labyrinth.

IMG_5215.JPG

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Honestly, it would be kinda funny if we were all wrong and neither Labyrinth, Hydrocity, Aquatic Ruin, or Tidal Tempest appear in the game lol

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1 hour ago, Jango said:

I wonder which version of the music they'll use for the CD level... Maybe act 1 JP/EU and act 2 US? Speak for yourself, but I'll be very sad (not disappointed, sad) if they don't pick QQZ. I need remixes of it, like, injected in my veins. It's in my top 3 favorite Sonic songs.

The JP/EU soundtrack has long been considered the "canon" one it seems.  Generations and Sonic 4 both remix the regular Stardust Speedway, with the US version being a bonus song in Generations only.

It WOULD be cool if they made it so holding down a button on the zone's startup played a remix of the US soundtrack, but that'd be a lot of work for Tee Lopes for a small thing.  Cooler would be having refrains from the US soundtrack mixed into Tee's remix of the JP song, but this would be tricky with some zones that have pretty wildly different beats between regions.

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Speaking of CD's soundtrack, Naofumi Hataya and Masafumi Ogata are the game's composer (JP/EU). Wonder if asking permission for them to remix their songs was... easy? Naofumi remixed all the Sonic CD songs for Gens (along with some others, like Green Hill Act 1), which was the last time we had official remixes of those. I also wonder the same for Masato Nakamura (Sonic 1 and 2 composer).

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35 minutes ago, Jango said:

Speaking of CD's soundtrack, Naofumi Hataya and Masafumi Ogata are the game's composer (JP/EU). Wonder if asking permission for them to remix their songs was... easy? Naofumi remixed all the Sonic CD songs for Gens (along with some others, like Green Hill Act 1), which was the last time we had official remixes of those. I also wonder the same for Masato Nakamura (Sonic 1 and 2 composer).

We know Nakamura has to be paid royalties to use Sonic 1 and 2 music.  As you say, Hataya still occasionally composes for the series (most recently, he was behind Sugar Lane in Lost World), so if there are any permissions involved, they're likely very easy to handle.  The fact that CD music has appeared in games/products where 1&2 easily could (the 1st stage music CD that comes with Generations special edition, Sonic 4, All-Stars Racing Transformed) suggests that they are not as much a luxury, if they are at all.

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13 minutes ago, JezMM said:

We know Nakamura has to be paid royalties to use Sonic 1 and 2 music.  As you say, Hataya still occasionally composes for the series (most recently, he was behind Sugar Lane in Lost World), so if there are any permissions involved, they're likely very easy to handle.  The fact that CD music has appeared in games/products where 1&2 easily could (the 1st stage music CD that comes with Generations special edition, Sonic 4, All-Stars Racing Transformed) suggests that they are not as much a luxury, if they are at all.

Wow, I've totally forgot about the bastardized Stardust Speedway Bad Future used in Sonic 4 Episode 2. And yeah, Racing Transformed used the Toot Toot Sonic Warrior song too and Naofumi did composed Sugar Lane (which... isn't really good IMO). Then again, they also used some NiGHTS music in Lost World's DLC, which wasn't remixed at all... I just like to discuss music in game, m'okay :V

The idea of mixing together both JP and US songs in one would be great, as I also want something like that for other zones too (bits of Ice Cap's melody in a possible new snow zone for exemple).

Like this! It has bits of the Sonic Adventure's Ice Cap and even Sonic Advance 3's Twinkle Snow!

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Given that the level design is mixing in elements from other, similar zones, it would seem appropriate for the music to do something similar.  (We haven't heard the final Green Hill Zone Act 2 mix yet, so it's still possible that this is on the cards.)  Even if they don't do it for any other zone, though, I'd agree that it would be great for the CD zone music to mix in both the US and JP versions - though depending on how they handle the time-travel, I accept that there might be a lot going on in a CD remix already.

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