Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[Gemster312]

Wouldn't the ability to split paths and go different routes just encourage re-playability?

Although i love all the zones and it's cool to get the entire experience in 1 go, there's something magical about making each run-through potentially different not just because of routes, but because of zones.

Most likely they won't do this, as that's a lot of work to make enough zones with multiple paths to ensure a single playthrough feels WHOLE, and because most of the playerbase might not know there are branching zones so most people will end up missing big chunks of the game if they don't even realize they branch zones.

It's a cool concept, but one that would take a lot of effort to execute correctly.

[Psychicmoose103]

So, a question to you guys, for the levels that you want to see reimagined, what bosses and new gimmicks do you want to see?

Starlight Zone - I said before that I hope Act 2 has rain in it, as this would be very beautiful. Maybe it could also have you going inside some of the buildings. Maybe rain could make slides down the street and slip you up. The mini boss could have something to do with seesaws, similar to the original boss, and the new boss could perhaps be some sort of crane or construction equipment that would be used in a city.

Mystic Cave Zone - I think that having some swinging vine elements and minecart segments would make this stage very interesting. Perhaps act 2 or the bottom section could have parts of the hidden palace remake. For the bosses, the miniboss would be a sort of reimagining of the boss in the original or inspired by marble garden. For the main boss of the zone, it would be cool to have eggman chase sonic in a giant drill, and you would have to use the vines, drop bridges, and maybe even climb up shafts to avoid the drill, while constantly attacking the top of the drill, which would be his weakness. 

Hydrocity Zone - This stage is already amazingly thought out, and pretty much perfect to me. For new gimmicks, i'm not really sure. Maybe something to do with bombs or something like that. The miniboss, like the previous, could be inspired by the original bosses. As for the new boss, it would be cool to see a sort of boss where maybe it messes with the walls, and you have to use the blocks to reach the weak point (like a giant washing machine)

Lava Reef Zone - I know flying battery is already in, but if Lava Reef gets in too, it would be cool to maybe see a boss the creates lava waves in which you have to avoid and reach him. Maybe a boss where you are riding down a Lava River, and you need to make careful platforming to reach the boss and dodge danger. For new mechanics, it would be nice to have a scene where you are chased by lava, like a more drastic version of Marble Zone act 2.

Stardust Speedway - I'm not really sure what gimmicks could be added to make this stage more interesting, but of course the boss needs to be Metal Sonic if it does get in.

ALTERNATIVES

Aquatic Ruin Zone - If this stage is getting in due to the trailer, it would make a lot of sense to have act 2 have more of a focus on the ruins part. Perhaps it takes place under act 1, and has more water in it. For a boss, it would be cool to see something referencing the arrow tiki-poles

Quartz Quadrant - If mystic cave doesn't get in, then I would wan't Quartz Quadrant to be the cave/mining level, and have that in instead of stardust speedway. Of course it could also have a drill that you need to run on to clear a path, or a minecart gimmick too. 

1 minute ago, Gemster312 said:

Wouldn't the ability to split paths and go different routes just encourage re-playability?

Although i love all the zones and it's cool to get the entire experience in 1 go, there's something magical about making each run-through potentially different not just because of routes, but because of zones.

Most likely they won't do this, as that's a lot of work to make enough zones with multiple paths to ensure a single playthrough feels WHOLE, and because most of the playerbase might not know there are branching zones so most people will end up missing big chunks of the game if they don't even realize they branch zones.

It's a cool concept, but one that would take a lot of effort to execute correctly.

I definitely agree with this, but I doubt it will happen in Mania. I do have a feeling though if we do get a Sonic 3 Remastered after Sonic Mania, it will handle the 2P zones like hidden palace was. Hopefully, it can still include the boss or a different boss from the zone that has the alternate path. Whether the extra zones act as alternatives to existing zones, or appear between them extend the game even more, I feel it would be interesting to see. One thing I am curious about is what they could do to turn the zones into full 2 act worlds. Although, it would be weird to have two amusement park levels and two desert levels in one game (carnival night/balloon park and Sandopolis/Desert Palace) Perhaps they would act as alternate paths/alternate zones, and you could go to say Desert Palace instead of Sandopolis (I know a lot of people would enjoy that haha)

[Jango]

they named it Sonic Mania because it means enthusiastic which fits the game perfectly. That and they might appear in Japan soon. 

It kind of makes it seem like that Sonic games were not made with enthuasism before tough.

 

Guess a sequel could be called Sonic Fever instead of Mania 2? That would be neat.

[Auroxen]

1 minute ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

So, a question to you guys, for the levels that you want to see reimagined, what bosses and new gimmicks do you want to see?

Good question indeed, I'll start with a list of the stages I'd like to see returning and then try to expand on them.
No Generations stages.

Sonic 1: Starlight or Scrap Brain
Sonic 2: Mystic Cave
Sonic CD: Quartz Quadrant
Sonic 3: IceCap or Launch Base
Sonic & Knuckles: Lava Reef

So, I want every Act 1 miniboss of the returning stages to be based on the original's Eggman boss, like Green Hill has a miniboss based on the wrecking ball.
For Scrap Brain that equates to the Final Zone and for Launch Base to the Big Arms, not the boss before.
I'll focus this posts on how I'd like to see the second Act diverge from the first since I'm not really wishing for any gimmick in particular.

STARLIGHT ZONE:
I freaking love the atmosphere of this level and I'd really like to see the city in the background, I'd even like for the bottom path of the second act to be in the sewers, which could also be based a little on Labyrinth's design as Starlight and Scrap Brain are built on top of it from my understanding of South Island's geography.
I like your idea of raining so that'd be also pretty neat.

SCRAP BRAIN ZONE:
I also freaking love the atmosphere of this level, be it for a completely different reason.
I'd like to have Act One starting on the more industrial part of the zone, the one in the background, before eventually leading to a section where you can either be on the inside or the outside of the factory (where the outside is based on the zone's first act from the original while the interior is like the original's second act).
The second act could take you more into the zone, being based more on the second act of the original, maybe with a twist like the zone having leaking of chemicals or water due to the long time it has been abandoned or something.
The idea of the bottom path being based on Labyrinth is also valid for this zone of course, considering the original's third act.

MYSTIC CAVE ZONE:
The main thing I love about this zone is the music, so as long as that's remixed in a good way I'll be happy.
I also love the aesthetics and think that caves are undervalued as a trope in the Sonic franchise.
I can see the second act taking elements from the Hidden Palace zone of Sonic 2's beta and the remastered.

QUARTZ QUADRANT ROUND (or in general any Sonic CD stage they pick):
I want to see a mixture of the zone's present and future version from the original, I don't want them to out right include time travel because I think it'd be weird to have it for like one zone or two.

I don't really have ideas for the remaining zones, I think that as long as they're in I'll be happy.
Launch Base's aesthetic obviously would depend on whether the Death Egg will be in the game, if it isn't then it could be all ruined or all frozen.

[Maxtiis]

52 minutes ago, Jango said:

 

Guess a sequel could be called Sonic Fever instead of Mania 2? That would be neat.

The trailer could have a Sonic themed rendition of Stevie Wonder's "Jungle Fever." To really rub in that 90's nostalgia.

What would the third game be? Sonic Insomnia or Sonic Schizo? 

[JingleBoy]

Well, I heard Mania got delayed, so I'm taking a break from my media blackout. I doubt much has happened lately--

On 14/04/2017 at 6:54 AM, Maxtiis said:

 

On 14/04/2017 at 7:12 AM, Gabe said:

The tumblr blog the animation is sourced from belongs to Max Collins, who according to his bio is an animator for Studio Yotta and a storyboard artist at CN (A lot of his recent sketches/artwork are for the network's O.K. KO! Let's Be Heroes, formerly known as Lakewood Turbo Plaza).

Something worth pointing out is that the design for the Hard-Boiled Heavy looks pretty complete, even though the enemy hasn't been officially revealed in full yet. Did he do some guesswork / take creative liberties? Or is this animation part of something bigger yet to be revealed (especially given that he took the original post down)?

[Auroxen]

8 minutes ago, JingleBoy said:

Infinite amazement

Yeah I know right when you think this game is super awesome and it can't get better it gets better and better and better.
I can't wait to play this.

[Psychicmoose103]

22 minutes ago, Auroxen said:

Yeah I know right when you think this game is super awesome and it can't get better it gets better and better and better.
I can't wait to play this.

Pretty much, this game just keeps getting more and more perfect. 

[Chris Knopps]

5 hours ago, ChikaBoing said:

It's more like heading in a good direction towards the 30th Anniversary. The interview was interresting, and it is not hard to figure out the gist of it I think.

So Sonic Mania started because neither Iizuka or Sega of America wanted to simply port the classics as it is is, but rather mix in something new in it. We probably already know this, but yeah, the Mania team would have likely wanted to all new stages.

It is called Mania because it is made by maniacs for maniacs. So I guess Sonic Retro are screw loose maniacs, or the broader gaming community who like Classic Sonic are that as well!

And like TimmiT was talking earlier, Iizuka and Hoshino are in the US again. However unlike in San Francisco, it is different in LA. I remember in San Francisco, Iizuka only had 12 developers or something to make SA2, Heroes and Shadow (and NiGHTS). Now he has no developers at all! I think most would agree that the "Iizuka brand" (if we wanna use Inafune slang) is practically meaningless. Sonic 4, Sonic Rivals, Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Colors? No coherency at all most would agree. Whatever advice that Iizuka has for the Mania team would be useless I feel. However it is interresting that https://segaretro.org/Kazuyuki_Hoshino is overseeing the art design for Sonic Mania, which is probably better than Iizuka "design ideas".

 

This makes it sound like they're throwing Iizuka away without throwing him completely out of the company...

Not that I would have a problem with a demotion at all...

I feel like Whitehead and his team would randomly burst out into laughter after every time Iizuka speaks and tries to give them advice, whenever he isn't around of course, at every chance they get.

"Hey guys, remember what Iizuka-San suggested earlier?"

Then the tears well up and the cheeks bulge before they fall out of chairs laughing.

[Blue Blood]

29 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

This makes it sound like they're throwing Iizuka away without throwing him completely out of the company...

Not that I would have a problem with a demotion at all...

I feel like Whitehead and his team would randomly burst out into laughter after every time Iizuka speaks and tries to give them advice, whenever he isn't around of course, at every chance they get.

"Hey guys, remember what Iizuka-San suggested earlier?"

Then the tears well up and the cheeks bulge before they fall out of chairs laughing.

I've always imagined that Whitehead, Thomley and everyone else working on Mania aren't a bunch of cocks and that they actually have a great deal of respect both for Iizuka and SEGA at large. You know, the people responsible for inspiring them to pursue their dream job and eventually giving it to them. But that's just me...

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I've always imagined that Whitehead, Thomley and everyone else working on Mania aren't a bunch of cocks and have a great deal of respect both Iizuka and SEGA at large. You know, the people responsible inspiring them to pursue their dream jobs and eventually giving it to them. But that's just me...

Correction.

Iizuka and SEGA inspired them to make BETTER games than they themselves were releasing, which is the cause of many fan projects nowadays.

And now Whitehead and team are kicking arse within the company and is showing how things are done. Iizuka is nothing more than the grandpa waving his cane thinking this and that is right. He's like the Cranky Kong of SEGA in my opinion.

[FriendBot]

Oh, we're back to mocking Iizuka and Sonic Team again for like what, the thousandth time. Ok.

[Badnik Mechanic]

13 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Iizuka is nothing more than the grandpa waving his cane thinking this and that is right. He's like the Cranky Kong of SEGA in my opinion.

This is not only insulting it's fucking pathetic. 

Iizuka has done a lot of good since being in the role of head of Sonic Team, not too mention he's apparently quite hands on with a lot of the work that goes on in the development team too.

[Blue Blood]

4 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

This is not only insulting it's fucking pathetic. 

Iizuka has done a lot of good since being in the role of head of Sonic Team, not too mention he's apparently quite hands on with a lot of the work that goes on in the development team too.

Precisely. 

Let's be honest, Iizuka and Sonic Team all have a very checkered record. I've got my own grievances with them and don't have a great deal of trust that they can consistently deliver what I want. But there's a line that's being crossed here that is very unfair and inappropriate. 

[Your Vest Friend]

So here's a translation of part of it.

It's a huge thread of tweets.

So yeah...this was spurred because Iizuka thought there were enough 2D ports already when the American side pitched that idea to him. Interesting. 

[Kiah]

16 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Correction.

Iizuka and SEGA inspired them to make BETTER games than they themselves were releasing, which is the cause of many fan projects nowadays.

And now Whitehead and team are kicking arse within the company and is showing how things are done. Iizuka is nothing more than the grandpa waving his cane thinking this and that is right. He's like the Cranky Kong of SEGA in my opinion.

If you aren't being obnoxious with your off-topic nonsense between the Mania and Forces topics then you are being obnoxious in other ways including throwing out insults. Either way this is absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable and has gone on for way too long. This stops right now unless you want disciplinary action.

And do not bring my warning up in this topic either. Shape up your behavior, show some respect even when expressing your grievances and post here on the SSMB in an actual contributive manner to discussion here or you do not post at all. 

[Sonic1994DC]

I think Sonic Mania needs a physical release for all current gen systems

[Celestia]

24 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

So yeah...this was spurred because Iizuka thought there were enough 2D ports already when the American side pitched that idea to him. Interesting. 

On one hand he's definitely dancing around the fact(?) that legal issues are in the way of porting Sonic 3, but even with that in mind I can't say I disagree. Remasters are great and all, but I'd rather get stuff like Mania, and it's not as if this game being made is what's getting in the way of it, so eh.

Definitely raises hopes that there's going to be more games in this vein, though I guess that partially depends on how well it does.

[Cyrus]

Oh wow, I never thought I'd see people defending Iizuka like this here.

[JezMM]

I mean the way I'm reading it from that interview, Sonic Mania was basically Iizuka's idea more or less.  Obviously there should be zero shortage of praise for the team actually making it, but some kudos is in order for Iizuka over that too.

Plus as much as I want Sonic 3 Remastered, "we've done too many remasters, let's make a new game that contains the appeal of those remasters" is a very... Miyamoto thing to say tbh.  Good on Iizuka.

[CleverSonicUsername]

Quote

Then he proposed an idea of mixing new stages and remakes from the past to please the mania, which was accepted with great positiveness.

This stood out to me, because you could read that and it basically describes Sonic 4 and Generations (to an extent.) Seems like they've been hung up on this concept for a while now, but finally leaned hard enough into it that it's having the impact they wanted. Generations did well too, of course, but Mania certainly satisfies the itch for more classic games in a way it didn't quite manage to.

[Maxtiis]

So has anyone on this board or Sonic Retro's reached out to Max Collins for comment on that animation of his? When I found it I assumed it was just a WIP fan animation but you guys have convinced me that I stumbled across something a bit more important than I'd initially thought, so I'd like to hear what he has to say about it. If he declines to comment that's fine, but if he says he can't, I'd say that speaks volumes.

[Tenko]

Considering what I just saw on Twitter, damage control is being done, the artist is asking people to remove the image and GIF file from news posts etc and the initial upload of the image was indeed a mistake which they want to stop from spreading.

Sadly I think it's a bit too late to stop the spread now. Suprise partially ruined, but regardless of how we all and up finding out it's still going to be fantastic news when it "officially" hits.

Edit : I would post the messages from him asking for it to be taken down but I don't know if it breaks any kind of privacy rules etc on the forum. If not I'll post an image or link to the post if moderators etc are interested.

[JosepHenry]

10 minutes ago, Tenko said:

Considering what I just saw on Twitter, damage control is being done, the artist is asking people to remove the image and GIF file from news posts etc and the initial upload of the image was indeed a mistake which they want to stop from spreading.

Sadly I think it's a bit too late to stop the spread now. Suprise partially ruined, but regardless of how we all and up finding out it's still going to be fantastic news when it "officially" hits.

Edit : I would post the messages from him asking for it to be taken down but I don't know if it breaks any kind of privacy rules etc on the forum. If not I'll post an image or link to the post if moderators etc are interested.

The thing is that I'm worried that this could affect him someway.

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

The thing is that I'm worried that this could affect him someway.

Mmm...

The only thing I'm worried about is SEGA saying "Well, they found out. Lets take it out of the game!" as a punishment instead.

That's what happened to the story mode being absent from Smash U isn't it? I heard the leaks were a big reason at least.

Worse case scenario we get the leak and lose the content in the grand scheme.