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Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic


Ryannumber1gamer

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@Diogenes I don't recall Sky Sanctuary been anything special in S&K, but look at Generations. It was probably the most controversial choice when the leak happened, as SSZ was a very short/transition/single act zone. Anyways, I'm all for giving a -not so liked/obvious choice- zone a new face and make it awesome. I see nothing special with Mystic Cave, but a lot of people seen to want it. I much rather have Oil Ocean, now with clean water (as if Sonic actually saved that place in the past). It would also convert it into an water park (there's those slides and stuff), which, Hidrocity basically is. I say pick Launch Base on ice and deactivated for Sonic 3, get creative, go crazy. What they could change in Hidrocity? And if it's so beloved, there's always a bigger chance for disappointment... The music is awesome, can't deny it tho, just like Ice Cap, but Tee is creative, and he could add little pieces of these songs (melody, tempo) into new songs of similar tropes/zones.
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1 hour ago, Jango said:

@Diogenes I don't recall Sky Sanctuary been anything special in S&K, but look at Generations. It was probably the most controversial choice when the leak happened, as SSZ was a very short/transition/single act zone.

Well, considering that the original Sky Sanctuary was designed by Iizuka, we can assume that he chose to include it. It's also a pretty good representative of Angel Island generally, what with it being floating ruins.

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3 hours ago, Jango said:

@Diogenes I don't recall Sky Sanctuary been anything special in S&K

It's like, the climactic chase after Eggman, after he reveals himself in Hidden Palace and steals the Master Emerald. You've just made up with Knuckles, he's counting on you to set things right, you're rushing through ancient Echidnean ruins in the sky, fighting off Eggrobos and Mecha Sonic to reach the Death Egg before it enters space. It's not the longest level, it doesn't have the best level design in the game, but it's a really memorable place, in a good way.

Labyrinth is memorably only for being slow, constantly trying to drown you, and having an awful boss.

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1 hour ago, Pawn said:

Well, considering that the original Sky Sanctuary was designed by Iizuka, we can assume that he chose to include it. It's also a pretty good representative of Angel Island generally, what with it being floating ruins.

Eh? You have a source for this?

If you're referring to his role as senior game designer in the game, I'd recommend not looking too much into it. He shared that role with another staff member (Hisayoshi Yoshida), and --more importantly-- they were both working under Carol Yas/Hirokazu Yasuhura's watch, who was the lead game designer for Sonic 3&K (as well as the director). If Iizuka has/had the ability to create level design like in Sky Sanctuary (or any other level in Sonic 3&K for that matter), it certainly doesn't show in later Sonic games he did serve (alongside Eitaro Toyoda) as a level designer for (Adventure 2, Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog, all of which Iizuka also directed).

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I always thought with relevance to S3&K that Sky Sanctuary was a pretty big deal. You see the Death Egg finally get off the ground for real this time and you have to fight Mecha Sonic, both those moments I would consider pretty intense moments in the storyline. Its one of those zones that's really more more about moving the story along than the level itself, but it's memorable for that reason. 

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16 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Eh? You have a source for this?

If you're referring to his role as senior game designer in the game, I'd recommend not looking too much into it. He shared that role with another staff member (Hisayoshi Yoshida), and --more importantly-- they were both working under Carol Yas/Hirokazu Yasuhura's watch, who was the lead game designer for Sonic 3&K (as well as the director). If Iizuka has/had the ability to create level design like in Sky Sanctuary (or any other level in Sonic 3&K for that matter), it certainly doesn't show in later Sonic games he did serve (alongside Eitaro Toyoda) as a level designer for (Adventure 2, Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog, all of which Iizuka also directed).

Sorry, I should have checked for a source before but I am unable to find one now. I was sure it was confirmed sometime around the lead-up to Generations that he at least had something to do with the visual design, but maybe it was just speculation after all. As far as the level design goes, I'd argue that there isn't a great deal to S3&K Sky Sanctuary's in comparison to the other stages anyway.

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4 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Opinions much? He doesn't look younger it's just a different art style... A very nice style too at that. Furthermore outside of mostly the box art and some of the old TV series... Sonic's style used in the mainline games was always the japan style in the past even with Sonic 3 and never used the honestly pointless western style. if the western look worked so well... why did they drop it later? That's right because it was unneeded and not canon. The normal style from japan was always the right mix of cool and cute. Is just bad stereotyping joke for companies to think westerners only can care for 1000% cool & edgy designs. Also it's the strangest thing how you are saying them basing the look after Sonic 1 is nostalgia pandering... but if they did the Sonic 3 look instead it wouldn't be???

Actually nearly everyday I look lately on the new Sonic game topics I see you wishing for random design changes and calling everything you don't want nostalgia pandering while ironically at the same time are wanting designs from old aspects of the series... AKA only wanting things mainly because of nostalgia. You can ask for what you want, but I'm just saying. :V

Yes... They are my opinions. That's... A bit obvious.

They didn't. They dropped BOTH designs with the modern titles with something more balanced in various ways so NEITHER was needed/canon basically by that argument/logic.

Gonna argue that and say no, just too much cute.

Basically because it's following the natural process of evolution over time. I'd be up for an evolution of the Sonic 3 sprite but they devolved back to the Sonic 1 sprite with a different color/detail.

I don't say everything I don't want is pandering. Bit of a lie there... Also nothing wrong with wanting a new round of designs for a new generation. Just feels like a good evolution to me, at least in the case of Sonic and Eggman in particular.

I want things to continue a steady process of evolution. I consider using most recent designs and building on them evolution whereas something like the Mania sprite for Sonic is not.

Put it this way... Look at Tails and Knuckles, this is another thing that makes the Mania design for Sonic a bit awkward because their designs are built off later looks, Knuckles looks like a proper continuation of his character as it takes his designs from S3&K and Chaotix and merges them together in a very satisfying way. They took too many steps back with Sonic and made the best steps forward with Tails and Knuckles, especially Knuckles.

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I don't mind that they didn't base Sonic's sprite off his look in 3. It makes Sonic 3 & Knuckles more unique. The best game in the series and that will never change in my opinion, no matter how great Mania is. 3&K to me was a once in a lifetime event. Also a lot of people make Sonic look like that because the prototype for Knuckles' Chaotix had this futuristic feel to it, and they used Sonic 1/2 style sprites there. Weirdly even though I love 3&K whenever I pictured some sort of sequel I actually expected Sonic to look like this.

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16 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I want things to continue a steady process of evolution.

Evolution doesn't go in one set direction or at a set speed.

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Just now, Diogenes said:

Evolution doesn't go in one set direction or at a set speed.

Mmm... I can certainly give you that one. That's pretty nicely said and I do agree.

I want to emphasize Sonic Mania is doing a FANTASTIC job of evolution all around save Sonic himself. By and large I consider Sonic the only thing that's trying too hard, going too far back, but everyone and everything else is going forward in such an excellent way I can only applaud it.

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27 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I don't say everything I don't want is pandering. Bit of a lie there... Also nothing wrong with wanting a new round of designs for a new generation. Just feels like a good evolution to me, at least in the case of Sonic and Eggman in particular.

I want things to continue a steady process of evolution. I consider using most recent designs and building on them evolution whereas something like the Mania sprite for Sonic is not.

Put it this way... Look at Tails and Knuckles, this is another thing that makes the Mania design for Sonic a bit awkward because their designs are built off later looks, Knuckles looks like a proper continuation of his character as it takes his designs from S3&K and Chaotix and merges them together in a very satisfying way. They took too many steps back with Sonic and made the best steps forward with Tails and Knuckles, especially Knuckles.

You called modern Metal Sonic pandering as it's based after the classic design (Regardless of the fact Modern Metal Sonic was redesigned on the same level that Modern Sonic was too) yet you wanted for Mecha Sonic or Neo Metal to replace him, which is another old design that was only meant to be a 1 time story deal. You thought Eggman should be redesigned to look more like a mix of his SatAM design. And now you are trying to say Sonic should have a sprite sheet based after his Sonic 3 design instead of being based after the Sonic 1 look and saying 1 is pandering but not the other.

Your idea of evolution of design is very flawed and ignores the concept what makes designs appealing to start with, with the logic you said that would mean SEGA should only use the Boom designs as they are most new.

And I disagree. All 3 characters match in art style and detail on Sonic Mania.

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3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Mmm... I can certainly give you that one. That's pretty nicely said and I do agree.

I want to emphasize Sonic Mania is doing a FANTASTIC job of evolution all around save Sonic himself. By and large I consider Sonic the only thing that's trying too hard, going too far back, but everyone and everything else is going forward in such an excellent way I can only applaud it.

Even if they took Sonic 3's sprite and made some "evolved" version of it, I don't think it would match the art style of the stages in Mania. 3 & Knuckles had a very specific style that looked cohesive with Sonic running through the stages with that almost jumbo appearance. If Knuckles had his sprites from 3 unaltered instead of the fusion we have here with Chaotix it would look strange too in my opinion.

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1 minute ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

You called modern Metal Sonic pandering as it's based after the classic design (Regardless of the fact Modern Metal Sonic was redesigned on the same level that Modern Sonic was too) yet you asked for Mecha Sonic or Neo Metal should replace him which is another old design that was only meant to be a 1 time story deal. You thought Eggman should be redesigned to look more like a mix of his SatAM design. And now you are trying to say Sonic should have a sprite sheet based after his Sonic 3 design instead of being based after the Sonic 1 look and saying 1 is pandering but not the other.

Your idea of evolution of design is very flawed and ignores the concept what makes designs appealing to start with, with the logic you said that would mean SEGA should only use the Boom designs as they are most new.

And I disagree. All 3 characters match in art style and detail on Sonic Mania.

Keep in mind Mecha Sonic is still considered the "new" and/or "evolved" version of Metal in the classics, the most recent model, just as Neo Metal is the "new" and/or "evolved" version of Metal in the modern age. Being the latest designs in both cases, it's not a matter of nostalgia but rather a whim to see the latest things focused on rather than the designs that came before them.

I merely think it would be interesting/neat but I wouldn't say maintaining his current Eggman design would be nostalgia based really since, after all, it IS his new/evolved self still for the main canon.

Actually it would be nice to see the main series cast get some sort of BOOM twist to them, not precisely but I wouldn't mind seeing Sonic donning a more "Sonic" kind of scarf, or... Perhaps a backpack to answer the old "where do the rings go" question. BOOM does do a good job at giving Eggman more of a dictator twist, not too much a fan of the 06 vibe his build gives me, but the outfit IS interesting.

I still argue against this. But that's why opinions will always be opinion. Mine, yours, it's how these things work. My words aren't facts and shouldn't be held in that regard, same as yours, etc. We like different flavors is all.

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I would love to see a frozen launch base! Oil Ocean being turned into a water park would be awesome. It would be cool if Hydrocity was maybe overgrown by plants, so it's kinda like an underwater jungle.

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1 minute ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

I would love to see a frozen launch base! Oil Ocean being turned into a water park would be awesome. It would be cool if Hydrocity was maybe overgrown by plants, so it's kinda like an underwater jungle.

You know what would be really awesome? The Sonic Facebook announcing that the legal issues with the Michael Jackson estate have been solved and that all music from Sonic 3 composed by Michael are now free game for Mania and future releases. And the announcement video is Aaron Webber, Sergio, Taxman, Stealth and the rest of the Mania team dancing to Billie Jean while showing gameplay of a new stage in Mania. Aaron tries to moonwalk and messes up, then says he should focus on the future and walks forward instead saying "Enjoy your future Sonic, it's going to be great!"

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27 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Actually it would be nice to see the main series cast get some sort of BOOM twist to them, not precisely but I wouldn't mind seeing Sonic donning a more "Sonic" kind of scarf, or... Perhaps a backpack to answer the old "where do the rings go" question. BOOM does do a good job at giving Eggman more of a dictator twist, not too much a fan of the 06 vibe his build gives me, but the outfit IS interesting.

In general my opinion is the series doesn't need more redesigns any time soon. I'm perfectly happy with the modern designs for nearly everybody.

I'd say modern Metal Sonic is more or less the most new Sonic robot as he has been upgraded by Eggman multiple times and redesigned little after Sonic Heroes.

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Hey, guys and gals! Can your bodies deal with the fact that Sonic Mania may very well be less than two months away? :o

I'm actually a bit afraid that they'll reveal too much info abut the game next Thursday! I want to be surprised as much as possible while playing the game myself... I'd be satisfied with just a reveal of another returning stage and some text-only bits of info.

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Just now, Ajavalo said:

Hey, guys and gals! Can your bodies deal with the fact that Sonic Mania may very well be less than two months away? :o

I'm actually a bit afraid that they'll reveal too much info abut the game next Thursday! I want to be surprised as much as possible while playing the game myself... I'd be satisfied with just a reveal of another returning stage and some text-only bits of info.

I'm just expecting info on the Sonic 3 content in the game being focused on given recent posts.

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Tax (or was it Stealth..or both) mentioned being interested in remastering Knuckles Chaotix, as well as having their Sonic 3 Remastered project, which was at the very least up and running already. Sooo..

It's a pipedream to be sure, especially when they have a lot on their plate with Mania, but I would love to see a full remastered "classic" collection. Combining their remasters of Sonic, Sonic 2 and Sonic CD, as well as Sonic 3, with potential for extras like Knuckles Chaotix as well as the first ever re-release of Sega Sonic Arcade, hell throw the Gamegear/Master System games on the disc too with some art/ads/music etc akin to Sonic Jam. Release it alongside Mania or with Mania bundled as a ultimate collectors edition. I would throw money at Sega.

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Just now, Tenko said:

Tax (or was it Stealth..or both) mentioned being interested in remastering Knuckles Chaotix, as well as having their Sonic 3 Remastered project, which was at the very least up and running already. Sooo..

It's a pipedream to be sure, especially when they have a lot on their plate with Mania, but I would love to see a full remastered "classic" collection. Combining their remasters of Sonic, Sonic 2 and Sonic CD, as well as Sonic 3, with potential for extras like Knuckles Chaotix as well as the first ever re-release of Sega Sonic Arcade, hell throw the Gamegear/Master System games on the disc too with some art/ads/music etc akin to Sonic Jam. Release it alongside Mania or with Mania bundled as a ultimate collectors edition. I would throw money at Sega.

Maybe the photo with Blue Spheres was taken as a memento of Sonic Mania being finished and in the past (left side) and Taxman has now started on the future, Sonic 3 Remastered (right side) and the Mania sprites are a placeholder because it's using the same engine.

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I believe Blue Spheres is coming back as the Bonus Stages this time, like how you went to Bonus Stages via Goal Posts in S3&K.

We have a new Special Stage in the game yet to be revealed, so it makes sense to have Blue Spheres as a bonus stage for lives and various items.

(Edit)

Or... Maybe the Blue Spheres stages are for the Chaos Emeralds and the new Special Stages are for the new item you collect in the game...?

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I really want to continue avoiding spoilers untill Mania's release, including the ones they'll give us during the upcoming pannel. But I know info on Project 2017 will also be given during the same pannel, WHICH I ALSO REALLY WANT to watch with you guys :(

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1 minute ago, Jango said:

I really want to continue avoiding spoilers untill Mania's release, including the ones they'll give us during the upcoming pannel. But I know info on Project 2017 will also be given during the same pannel, WHICH I ALSO REALLY WANT to watch with you guys :(

The name of the game and a short CGi clip or two combined with like 5 seconds of game play isn't much of a spoiler. lol

(Just expecting this to be how it goes)

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I'm still curious as to whatever this screenshot is showing.

sonic-mania-screenshot-01.jpg

When I first saw it I thought it was going to be either Mania's special or bonus stage, but the fact that the background appears to still be in Studiopolis, and that all the standard hud elements like the ring counter are present, it looks like a stage gimmick similar to the Casino Night slot machines.

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3 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

I'm still curious as to whatever this screenshot is showing.

sonic-mania-screenshot-01.jpg

When I first saw it I thought it was going to be either Mania's special or bonus stage, but the fact that the background appears to still be in Studiopolis, and that all the standard hud elements like the ring counter are present, it looks like a stage gimmick similar to the Casino Night slot machines.

Act 2 of Studiopolis is the best guess.

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