Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[FriendBot]

TSSZ tweeted that it was gonna stream on 5PM EST but it seems like at 5PM, it's still Tekken 7. 

Guess Tristan has done another goof :/

[Milo]

On the talk about the level layout, I'm gonna chip in with my two cents and (again) comment on how to me, Mania doesn't come across as following directly on a specific Genesis Sonic game with its level design.

A while back, I brought up this rudimentary level map of Green Hill Act 1, fudged together from Zephyr (Retro) from existing footage. Again, emphasis on rudimentary, as it's very much incomplete and a bit choppy with its placement. Still worth bringing up as it paints a tangible picture of the level structure:

Now compare it to, say, Palmtree Panic Zone 2, Good Future from CD. (I really recommend opening and viewing each map in new tabs for good analysis, rather than viewing them strictly through the thumbnails below.)

To the recent comments on comparing the level design to Sonic CD, there is a definite link regarding Green Hill's platform/object placement being similarly packed /layered together. But note how Palmtree Panic, as squeezed together as it is, has clearly defined "boundaries" with the altitude for its lowest and highest routes that it doesn't break from. Green Hill initially starts out like this (in correspondence to the original level layout from Sonic 1), but around the point you get to the first loop, the level then shifts into something much more sprawling in comparison. Green Hill transforms from a level with two closely overlapping routes into into arguably three routes firmly spaced apart after that point, which are connected together through a series of several overlapping "smaller" routes.

On the other hand, let's take a look at Hydrocity Act 2 from Sonic 3 (pic on my end doesn't seem to embed properly for some reason, so here's a link if it doesn't show):

In terms of size, Green Hill looks arguably just as big, if not moreso. Both Hydrocity and Green Hill don't confine their routes to a specific altitude plane, unlike Palmtree Panic, and are very large in size. But like Palmtree Panic, Green Hill's routes are frequently overlapping with each other; which serves as a big distinction of what separates it from Hydrocity. Like many of Sonic 3&K's stage, Hydrocity's level structure is very much shaped like an "ant colony"--routes are relatively self-contained and rarely, if ever, blend into each other prior to the boss / end of the act. These routes are also more focused in direction compared to other games--whereas Sonic CD's levels can actually feel aimless at times, Sonic 3&K has very linear routes. In contrast, Green Hill's cluster of available paths to take gives the level a very nonlinear approach--the level obviously has a beginning and a end, but the game leaves you to your own devices in regards what path you take to get there.

Anywho, I think this pseudo-review mostly applies to Green Hill, and not the game's levels as a whole. There hasn't been a map made for Studiopolis Act 1 that I know of, but in comparison, the platform/object layout and route direction I'd say is closer to the levels from Sonic 2, which are more streamlined and speed-oriented.

[SonicDude]

1 hour ago, Nightly said:

I really love the little pockets of water in the underground section~ It really makes the level feel even more vibrant than it already is.

Also I wonder if this is supposed to be a little nod to the Master System/Game Gear version of Sonic 1?

The chopper badniks are also shaped how they were in the Master System version, cool.

[Zippo]

Not sure if people missed this or not, but Eurogamer said they went to a Sonic Mania "Press Event". Most likely meaning many journalists have already played new levels but are under embargo until next Thursday.

[Osmium]

4 minutes ago, Gabe said:

On the talk about the level layout, I'm gonna chip in with my two cents and (again) comment on how to me, Mania doesn't come across as following directly on a specific Genesis Sonic game with its level design.

A while back, I brought up this rudimentary level map of Green Hill Act 1, fudged together from Zephyr (Retro) from existing footage. Again, emphasis on rudimentary, as it's very much incomplete and a bit choppy with its placement. Still worth bringing up as it paints a tangible picture of the level structure:

Now compare it to, say, Palmtree Panic Zone 2, Good Future from CD. (I really recommend opening and viewing each map in new tabs for good analysis, rather than viewing them strictly through the thumbnails below.)

To the recent comments on comparing the level design to Sonic CD, there is a definite link regarding Green Hill's platform/object placement being similarly packed /layered together. But note how Palmtree Panic, as squeezed together as it is, has clearly defined "boundaries" with the altitude for its lowest and highest routes that it doesn't break from. Green Hill initially starts out like this (in correspondence to the original level layout from Sonic 1), but around the point you get to the first loop, the level then shifts into something much more sprawling in comparison. Green Hill transforms from a level with two closely overlapping routes into into arguably three routes firmly spaced apart after that point, which are connected together through a series of several overlapping "smaller" routes.

On the other hand, let's take a look at Hydrocity Act 2 from Sonic 3:

In terms of size, Green Hill looks arguably just as big, if not moreso. Both Hydrocity and Green Hill don't confine their routes to a specific altitude plane, unlike Palmtree Panic, and are very large in size. But like Palmtree Panic, Green Hill's routes are frequently overlapping with each other; which serves as a big distinction of what separates it from Hydrocity. Like many of Sonic 3&K's stage, Hydrocity's level structure is very much shaped like an "ant colony"--routes are relatively self-contained and rarely, if ever, blend into each other prior to the boss / end of the act. These routes are also more focused in direction compared to other games--whereas Sonic CD's levels can actually feel aimless at times, Sonic 3&K has very linear routes. In contrast, Green Hill's cluster of available paths to take gives the level a very nonlinear approach--the level obviously has a beginning and a end, but the game leaves you to your own devices in regards what path you take to get there.

Anywho, I think this pseudo-review mostly applies to Green Hill, and not the game's levels as a whole. There hasn't been a map made for Studiopolis Act 1 that I know of, but in comparison, the platform/object layout and route direction I'd say is closer to the levels from Sonic 2, which are more streamlined and speed-oriented.

Maps of Studiopolis act 1? 

That's about as good as it gets for now. Studiopolis differs from Green Hill in the bottom part as there parts of the bottom of the zone that don't mingle with other paths for extended periods of time but the upper reaches of the act are very much like how CD's zones acted, almost aimless with many many places to go. 

[Maxtiis]

It was mentioned that we would see more of the Hard-Boiled Heavies at a later time, and it's safe to say that this guy is one of them:

And with today's reveal of Heavy Gunner it got me thinking that the Hard-Boiled Heavies could be considered the precursors to the E-Series. Heck, these guys could fill the void the E-Series left by being actually interesting boss fights with Eggman's elite, which I find to be a fascinating prospect. The recent Archie comics really showed what could have been done with the E-Series and I feel this is a step in the right direction.

[Chris Knopps]

28 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

It was mentioned that we would see more of the Hard-Boiled Heavies at a later time, and it's safe to say that this guy is one of them:

And with today's reveal of Heavy Gunner it got me thinking that the Hard-Boiled Heavies could be considered the precursors to the E-Series. Heck, these guys could fill the void the E-Series left by being actually interesting boss fights with Eggman's elite, which I find to be a fascinating prospect. The recent Archie comics really showed what could have been done with the E-Series and I feel this is a step in the right direction.

Reminds me of that old Andy Griffith episode...

Funnily enough, that painting in Mania is in a bar if I'm not mistaken and in this episode of Andy Griffith the guys found some moonshine making going on in the mansion this painting was in.

[Osmium]

And also yes, I'm gonna have to agree with @Gabe with S3&K's stages being quite different than the preceding games. I don't think people realize how linear S3's levels are especially until they look at the broad map of them. Sonic 3 levels acted more as large pathways that twisted all up down and all around and occasionally had shortcuts but mostly gravitated around one path. There are obviously exceptions but Sonic 3 I would say actually was a big transition point to how Sonic levels would be more like in the future. That said, I'm glad Mania seems to recede on this choice a bit and decides to go with more of a Sonic CD feel. I know a lot of people don't like CD's style, but I do and it's cool to see stages that have pathways that sprawl and connect and throw all over the place, while managing to throw in elements from other game's design choices. The idea that some of Sonic 2's designs in particular returning is a correct one, especially in Studiopolis with it's ramped paths that remind first of Chemical Plant Zone in it's most fast sections. We seem to have a game here that has Sonic CD stages that are built up into more of a Sonic 3&K scale, if that makes any sense. What I mean is that there are tonnes of paths all over the place that connect and all that, but they are now larger and longer and don't feel so as cramped. It's like a more nuanced Sonic CD. And yeah, I actually can understand the complaint that this may come with the risk of the locations not seeming as natural, but I'm not seeing anything too bad yet, and on the contrary to that, I actually may say that having all these locations and hidden paths actually make the locations seem more real as like any real place, it's huge and sprawls out in all directions. Green Hill Zone actually feels more alive than ever, as you have the normal pillars, hills, and slopes, but now there are lakes and caves and higher up places and lower places. It feels fucking huge. 

And like I said earlier, Studiopolis does have shades of Sonic CD and Sonic 3's style coming together as the lower paths of the zone feel quite isolated from the rest, and advance on their own, feeling like a completely different part of the city, which could be like that to give you the feeling you are down in the dark gritty city alleys, constrained by narrow pathways with only the noisy subway passing as company. The upper paths are the opposite giving you a huge airy bustling city feel with all sorts of places to go like in a real city, with so much to see. It's actually pretty awesome and I hope more zones take advantage of using the setting of the zone to dictate how it will be mapped out, as Lava Reef was a zone that did this amazingly, with it's tight constraining cave mazes that open up into huge cathedral like rooms that show you the scale of the whole places as gratification and the level opens up as the response. I hope they are thinking about this and like I said make pathways act accordingly to the level. It's fascinating to see how Sonic 3 and Sonic 2's and Sonic CD's styles actually work well together in creating crazy natural environments and memorable places. This is really how you take all the good things about classic Sonic and make something truly extraordinary out of them. 

I hope this rant made sense lol kinda just a running of my brain in the excitement of all this 

[SpongicX]

5 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/sonic_mania/b/playstation4/archive/2017/03/10/classic-sonic-with-a-new-spin.aspx

Ladies and Gentlemen; THE HARD-BOILED HEAVIES.

This is Heavy Gunner, the boss of Studiopolis Act 1.

Was anyone else a bit let down by today's reveal? It felt a little anti climatic. All they really had to show was a recolored minion for Sonic Mania, and a little more of Green Hill Zone? Was this really worth making a tease over last night? I was hoping we'd see more of Project 2017, or more than a few short minutes and images of Sonic Mania. I don't see why they had to make a teaser over something so underwhelming. 

[Indigo Rush]

Speak for yourself.

[Maxtiis]

3 minutes ago, SpongicX said:

Was anyone else a bit let down by today's reveal? It felt a little anti climatic. All they really had to show was a recolored minion for Sonic Mania, and a little more of Green Hill Zone? Was this really worth making a tease over last night? I was hoping we'd see more of Project 2017, or more than a few short minutes and images of Sonic Mania. I don't see why they had to make a teaser over something so underwhelming. 

Not in the slightest.

[Osmium]

6 minutes ago, SpongicX said:

Was anyone else a bit let down by today's reveal? 

nah 

Quote

felt a little anti climatic. All they really had to show was a recolored minion for Sonic Mania, and a little more of Green Hill Zone? Was this really worth making a tease over last night? 

yes 

 

Like come on man, you can feel underwhelmed by it all you want but don't act like you're above it all by not being excited, like this is just "minor shit" or something. People have been anticipating the shit out of what we saw today and you know it. 

[Jango]

Today was an AWESOME day.

[Celestia]

14 minutes ago, SpongicX said:

Was this really worth making a tease over last night?

Eh, I'd say so, yeah. I mean for one thing the teaser was the day before, rather than being drawn out, and we also got this a week or so before an event where we're supposedly getting info on both games. Fair enough if you were personally underwhelmed but I thought it was a pleasant little update.

14 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Speak for yourself.

That's what he was doing, yes :V

On another note, they might want to do something about uh...

 

[FriendBot]

Speaking of that, some people are guessing that with the fire shield you can run on the falling flames after burning the bridges. Now that I look at it, it could be possible but then again it could be another "Tails shouldn't be able to break boxes when he's flying" situation.

[CleverSonicUsername]

"Later this year" rather than "this Spring" makes the game sound so much further away. I hope I'm just reading too deeply into that.

[Your Vest Friend]

He said Spring in the stream.

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 minute ago, VEDJ-F said:

He said Spring in the stream.

Ah, ok that's good. I just woke up and have barely looked around at everything out there.

[Chris Knopps]

21 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Eh, I'd say so, yeah. I mean for one thing the teaser was the day before, rather than being drawn out, and we also got this a week or so before an event where we're supposedly getting info on both games. Fair enough if you were personally underwhelmed but I thought it was a pleasant little update.

That's what he was doing, yes :V

On another note, they might want to do something about uh...

 

Naw man, Sonic's just doing his Jackson thing, taking Moonwalking a step forward, and up.

[Psychicmoose103]

I was not let down at all. The bosses actually looks so friggin cool, and I love green hill act 2. Still waiting to see Dr. Eggman's new art

[Kintor]

3 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

I was not let down at all. The bosses actually looks so friggin cool, and I love green hill act 2. Still waiting to see Dr. Eggman's new art

Agreed, this has been a great day for more Sonic Mania information. Green Hill Zone act 2 looks amazing; I want to play it right now!

Plus, I like the idea behind the Hard Boiled Heavies, really creative designs so far between Heavy Gunner and that 'Western' Egg Robo. Sega should talk to Takara Tommy and get a toy line underway for these guys.

[expansivelovestories]

1 hour ago, VEDJ-F said:

He said Spring in the stream.

Yes; I remember he says something after it similar to that they are telling the dev team/devs that they do have as much time as they need!  The subject matter of the previous page, that the zones are larger and more detailed than ever, may be adding some extra time to test them as much as they need and want!   

Somehow i could see/hear this song having been tied into Mania if it was being released in 1997!  It does sound both like Tee's overall style and also uniquely similar to J-pop!  Overall I am also very excited to hear what the credits music for this game will be!  

 

[Chris Knopps]

10 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

I was not let down at all. The bosses actually looks so friggin cool, and I love green hill act 2. Still waiting to see Dr. Eggman's new art

I wouldn't mind this.

Modern outfit, classic build.

[JosepHenry]

I know that's just dreams of mine, but what if Green Hill's Act 2 music is a different song than just Green Hill?

Maybe is a new composition made by Tee Lopes?

Or maybe, just maybe... 

Nah.

[Osmium]

17 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I wouldn't mind this.

Modern outfit, classic build.

Which we won't be getting. 

Quote

I know that's just dreams of mine, but what if Green Hill's Act 2 music is a different song than just Green Hill?

Maybe is a new composition made by Tee Lopes?

Or maybe, just maybe... 

Nvm, reread the post so this part has changed. 

Meh to Green Hills Zone theme for act 2 still though. It's not very fitting.