Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[D.K.]

2 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Lost World is confusing from concept to finished product.

In most/all of the concept art seen they use Classic Sonic for whatever reason and they use the Classic Sonic icon for the extra lives. If they wanted the game to revolve Classic Sonic, which the design of the game DOES suit MUCH better than Modern Sonic, they should have just used Classic Sonic instead.

Lost World is trying to be so many things at once, but screws up every single one of them.

The environment is trying to be stylized and low-poly, the enemies and stereotypes Graff and Pontac found off a list on TV Tropes Zeti are trying to be cartoony and cel-shaded, and the characters are trying to be detailed and realistic. Everything is an mishmash of poorly-thought-out ideas that's trying to capture the outlandish style of the Genesis games but doesn't understand what made outlandish style of the Genesis games good.

And that's just the visuals. That's not even going into the story, gameplay and music.

[Chris Knopps]

Question...

If we DO get a snow/ice themed level, be it Ice Cap Zone or whatever, anyone else but me hoping we can snowboard through loops...?

[Maxtiis]

4 hours ago, Jango said:

I gotta say, the Gunner artwork is straight from 94' and I do hope a physical release get a box art with the same art style. This is so damn legit.

I kinda wish if Sega were to release a physical copy, they'd use fan-made artwork for it (with artist's permission of course);this is a game made by fans, for fans after all. This one is my personal favorite from what I've seen, and it's such a great throwback:

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Depression Kong said:

Zeti are trying to be cartoony and cel-shaded, and the characters are trying to be detailed and realistic

The Zeti aren't cel-shaded and the other characters aren't realistic, what are you even talking about.

[Celestia]

I don't think Sonic in that LW concept art is intended to be "Classic" Sonic, he's just super simplified (hence being so small + black eyes) and is only there to give a sense of scale for everything going on in the concepts. I highly doubt they considered using the design in the actual game at any point in development.

As for Classic Sonic being used as the lives icon, I guess they could've used the one from Colours but maybe they just preferred the Generations 1-up design? I have to agree that it's a lot nicer to look at, tho' it would've been cute if they at least changed it to resemble Sonic's modern design.

2 hours ago, mikeblastdude said:

I know that the team has already mentioned that these are older builds that we're seeing, and they've already worked out a lot of the errors, but I still find it amusing to see little graphical mistakes like this.

(Embarrassing confession: even with the circle narrowing things down, I didn't see the problem in this screenshot until I looked at it a second time. XP)

It's good they're fixing errors, especially graphical ones, but I won't mind if there's a few hiccups in other areas here and there. The classic games have some issues but generally you need to go out of your way to break the game, or just be extremely unlucky. I'll be surprised if this game is less stable than that.

Speaking of breaking the game--and maybe I've said this before but I feel very strongly about this so--I really hope they bless us with debug mode. I think I spent more time messing with that then actually playing the games when I was younger.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Celestia said:

I don't think Sonic in that LW concept art is intended to be "Classic" Sonic, he's just super simplified (hence being so small + black eyes) and is only there to give a sense of scale for everything going on in the concepts. I highly doubt they considered using the design in the actual game at any point in development.

As for Classic Sonic being used as the lives icon, I guess they could've used the one from Colours but maybe they just preferred the Generations 1-up design? I have to agree that it's a lot nicer to look at, tho' it would've been cute if they at least changed it to resemble Sonic's modern design.

(Embarrassing confession: even with the circle narrowing things down, I didn't see the problem in this screenshot until I looked at it a second time. XP)

It'd good they're fixing graphical issues but I won't mind if there's a few hiccups in other areas here and there. The classic games have some issues but generally you need to go out of your way to break the game, or just be extremely unlucky.

Speaking of breaking the game--and maybe I've said this before but I feel very strongly about this so--I really hope they bless us with debug mode. I think I spent more time messing with that then actually playing the games when I was younger.

This would require a mandatory Big the Cat Easter Egg.

[Maxtiis]

2 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

"The team behind #SonicMania are all each other's fans. It's amazing what you can do when you work with individuals you love and respect!"

If that vibe is what makes such a great Sonic game, everyone over in Sonic Team must REALLY hate each other nowadays. lol

Nowadays? They've practically hated each other since the beginning if Yuji Naka wanting to quit after the first Sonic game is anything to go by. Although that may have had more to do with the corporate side of Sega rather than Sonic Team itself. Mr. Naka also seemed to have a bit of an ego so that may not have helped matters.

[JosepHenry]

Remember, they are using the demo from the Mirage Saloon reveal. The thing is that they never showed GH Act 2.

I'm sure some of the glitches are already fixed by now,

[Chris Knopps]

11 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Remember, they are using the demo from the Mirage Saloon reveal. The thing is that they never showed GH Act 2.

I'm sure some of the glitches are already fixed by now,

Huh... That's from an older demo...? Didn't know that.

[JosepHenry]

Yes, in the Twitch stream, they showed the "sound test" screen.

Is the same demo that Aaron played for charity, and it was shown in the reveal of Mirage Saloon.

[SonicDude]

18 hours ago, Metal the Mario said:

On the subject of short themes/jingles, I wonder why they didn't make a new 1-up theme to go with the other jingles and instead reused the one from Sonic 3. Sonic 4 did the same thing, oddly enough.

Probably for nostalgic reasons and to create a feeling of cohesion across games, like the 1UP sound in Mario. Also because it's so short and they have the rights to it, they're probably like "why bother/spend more money getting someone to write another?" Even though as a musician myself I could write a decent extra life jingle in under a minute, lol.

[Jango]

51 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I don't think Sonic in that LW concept art is intended to be "Classic" Sonic, he's just super simplified (hence being so small + black eyes) and is only there to give a sense of scale for everything going on in the concepts. I highly doubt they considered using the design in the actual game at any point in development.

As for Classic Sonic being used as the lives icon, I guess they could've used the one from Colours but maybe they just preferred the Generations 1-up design? I have to agree that it's a lot nicer to look at, tho' it would've been cute if they at least changed it to resemble Sonic's modern design.

(Embarrassing confession: even with the circle narrowing things down, I didn't see the problem in this screenshot until I looked at it a second time. XP)

It's good they're fixing errors, especially graphical ones, but I won't mind if there's a few hiccups in other areas here and there. The classic games have some issues but generally you need to go out of your way to break the game, or just be extremely unlucky. I'll be surprised if this game is less stable than that.

Speaking of breaking the game--and maybe I've said this before but I feel very strongly about this so--I really hope they bless us with debug mode. I think I spent more time messing with that then actually playing the games when I was younger.

You'd be surprised:

Yep, this is official artwork.

 

Anyways, this is Mania's thread, let's not starting anything, 'kai GUYS? >_>

[SonicDude]

I actually really like how "busy" the stages are looking

It feels like the larger levels of Sonic 3 & Knuckles combined with Sonic CD, feels like there is more to explore but you can also race through the stage if you like. I also like how the zip lines take Sonic's momentum into account. I think the speed runs of this game are going to be incredible.

[Jango]

BTW, I love this, do not fix it:

It's like Sonic doesn't even give a fuck, it's so funny

[StaticMania]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Question...

If we DO get a snow/ice themed level, be it Ice Cap Zone or whatever, anyone else but me hoping we can snowboard through loops...?

Something similar to Sonic Rush Adventure's snow/ice themed level? That was the only 2D game to do a thing like that...as well as tricks. 

 

Yeah, something like that'd work.

[SonicDude]

7 minutes ago, Jango said:

BTW, I love this, do not fix it:

It's like Sonic doesn't even give a fuck, it's so funny

I didn't know we were allowed to swear here, fuck yeah!

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Something similar to Sonic Rush Adventure's snow/ice themed level? That was the only 2D game to do a thing like that...as well as tricks. 

 

Yeah, something like that'd work.

It would be cool if the stage starts off like Sonic 3's ice cap, and really skilled players can keep the snowboard for most of the stage. Maybe there could be snowboard monitors similar to Sonic Triple Trouble.

[Celestia]

33 minutes ago, Jango said:

You'd be surprised:

[...]

Oh yeah, I remember that. I still don't think it means anything though, especially when there's other art that does use the modern design. It's possible the art with "classic" Sonic was from earlier in development before they changed their minds, but I think it's more likely the concept artist(s) were just having fun with it. I dunno, it just doesn't seem likely SEGA would even consider something like that at the time. With more recent events, maybe, but back during the time LW was in development (so like, somewhere within 2011-2013) when the series was in a decent-ish place?

But yeah, probably best not to drag this tangent out too much, lol.

17 minutes ago, Jango said:

I'm just glad he's having a good time

[Maxtiis]

51 minutes ago, SonicDude said:

I actually really like how "busy" the stages are looking

It feels like the larger levels of Sonic 3 & Knuckles combined with Sonic CD, feels like there is more to explore but you can also race through the stage if you like. I also like how the zip lines take Sonic's momentum into account. I think the speed runs of this game are going to be incredible.

I just hope there aren't any zips that take you immediately to the end of the stage. I don't doubt the legitimacy of using them for a speed run, they take a lot of skill to pull off successfully, but it is lame to see someone just zoom through all the level geometry because they managed to clip into a wall. It kind of undermines the entire basis this series was based off of. This is why I wish there were more glitchless categories for Sonic speedruns.

[Celestia]

5 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

I just hope there aren't any zips that take you immediately to the end of the stage. I don't doubt the legitimacy of using them for a speed run, they take a lot of skill to pull off successfully, but it is lame to see someone just zoom through all the level geometry because they managed to clip into a wall. It kind of undermines the entire basis this series was based off of. This is why I wish there were more glitchless categories for Sonic speedruns.

At first I thought you were talking about a zipline that intentionally brings you from the start to the end of the stage and wondered what made you think there'd be something like that in the game (unless it was really well hidden and hard to get to, in which case that'd be hilarious and amazing).

And yeah I'd like to see more glitchless runs too. Not that they're not fun to watch on their own merits, but runs that don't break the game can be impressive simply because they're within the limits of what the developers intended.

[Osmium]

Couple notes about this act: 

0:10 - I REALLY like how you can basically run all the way back to the start of the act above where you initially were, adding more to this feeling like a real place. I hope we get more touches like this in other zones. 

0:40 - It seems that Christian Whitehead understands how upper paths in these games worked quite well, as look how smooth is generally is, being the easiest to get constant speed on. This is the gratification for climbing up there and I like seeing that. We really are in good hands. 

1:37 - Is that a bottomless pit? There's a chopper jumping out but judging by how little you can see down and how low you are in the act it seems like it may be just that. I hope not though. Seems rather out of place if it is tbh. 

1:41 - I think it was said before but those striped backgrounds are a blatant reference to 8-bit Sonic 1's Green Hill Zone act 2. Cool. 

[CleverSonicUsername]

The 16th can't come soon enough, and with it (I hope) confirmation of a release date. I lurk on the Sonic Retro board for Mania because I think their more tech oriented outlook on things is pretty cool, but there's some speculation going on that it could very well be delayed. One user pointed to a "extremely recent" tweet by Taxman saying there's a lot of work ahead, but the only tweet I see that looks like that is one he pinned from mid-2016, around Mania's reveal. Hopefully I'm not missing anything, because I badly want to keep my cup half full and believe this thing is still on track for a Spring release.

Still, even if it's not, it will be worth the wait, especially if it gives Tax and his team more time to make the most polished game they can.

[Sonicfan7]

5 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

there's some speculation going on that it could very well be delayed. One user pointed to a "extremely recent" tweet by Taxman saying there's a lot of work ahead, but the only tweet I see that looks like that is one he pinned from mid-2016, around Mania's reveal. Hopefully I'm not missing anything, because I badly want to keep my cup half full and believe this thing is still on track for a Spring release.

Still, even if it's not, it will be worth the wait, especially if it gives Tax and his team more time to make the most polished game they can.

On the Twitch stream today Aaron said something along the lines of "We're targeting Spring 2017, but we want the team to take as much time as they need"

Sounds like he's being optimistic on the current release target but also realistic on the strong possibility it gets delayed. Won't be surprised if we get this thing June-July.

[CleverSonicUsername]

Just now, Sonicfan7 said:

On the Twitch stream today Aaron said something along the lines of "We're targeting Spring 2017, but we want the team to take as much time as they need"

Sounds like he's being optimistic on the current release target but also realistic on the strong possibility it gets delayed. Won't be surprised if we get this thing June-July.

 

Way that sounds to me, if I'm trying to be an optimist, is it's still set for Spring, but the team understands that SEGA has their backs and will accommodate them with more time if needed.

But I guess we'll see. If there's no release date announcement on the 16th then we can safely assume it won't release in April, which would discredit the whole Amazon release date change thing. May was always my initial assumption. The rough state of some of the demos doesn't inspire confidence, but I also have to understand that those are likely much older builds than what the team is working with now.

[expansivelovestories]

Yes!   I think it is possible that discerning that there is a large audience that is excited about this creation regardless of how long it actually takes to complete has inspired them to be even more thorough with their processes of finalizing everything.

The zones shown so far have some of the most complex mechanics one could imagine in 2D Sonic, yet that all seem to be running smoothly with the physics programming.** I am still amazed and will of course remain permanent so, that they were able to design and implement them!

** After all, the physics of the original 2D Sonic can feel to the players to be much more three dimensional/complete and vivid than most other games created before or since. 

The players' eyes do not have to frequently reorient, due to camera angles constantly changing, to what part of the complex visual stimuli is the character and what is the ground and environment.  As a result, when attaining unique forward or upward/downward momentum, and performing any and all unique actions within gameplay, each key features and experiences of 2D Sonic, all of the visual indications of this are neatly, clearly and beautifully in place for the players' minds to experience uninterrupted!  

 

 

[Maxtiis]

3 hours ago, Celestia said:

At first I thought you were talking about a zipline that intentionally brings you from the start to the end of the stage and wondered what made you think there'd be something like that in the game (unless it was really well hidden and hard to get to, in which case that'd be hilarious and amazing).

And yeah I'd like to see more glitchless runs too. Not that they're not fun to watch on their own merits, but runs that don't break the game can be impressive simply because they're within the limits of what the developers intended.

That got a good laugh out of me, I didn't even think about it being interpreted that way. At least I didn't mention the alternate to a zip, the wrap, which would make me sound like I believe there are sandwich wraps hidden around Sonic levels.

Although I'd totally play that game.