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Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

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1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

"As we move forward"

"show sequence of games from classic to modern"

Quote

"We're going back"

"show sequence of games from modern going back to classic"

Quote

"THIS IS WHERE IT BEGINS"

Is talking about Sonic Mania nothing else. 

Quote

I'm gonna laugh when we get more...

I'm laughing at you because your argument falls flat on it's face...again. You're talking rubbish. Please stop.

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2 minutes ago, TailsBot said:

"show sequence of games from classic to modern"

"show sequence of games from modern going back to classic"

Is talking about the Sonic Mania nothing else. 

I'm laughing at you because your argument falls flat on it's face...again. You're talking rubbish. Please stop.

 

I suppose in the end we're both speaking on mere grounds of personal assumptions so with that in mind both of our ends of the argument are rubbish.

(Edit)

As far as what I've highlighted, a little less conceit would be nice my friend.

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If Mania is a financial success, and if the developers and SEGA want to work together again on another Classic Sonic game, only then will we see a sequel of sorts. Personally? Yeah, I think it looks like Mania is going to be well-received and a sales success. It's always impossible for us fans to say for sure one way or another considering the lack of information we have, but it could happen.

These things are never planned out and set in stone ahead of time. Just look at at Forces and Sonic 4 Episode 3. Forces has Classic Sonic in it, despite Iizuka saying that there were "no plans" to use him again after Generations. The phrase "no plans" basically means "we've not made up our minds yet". And Sonic 4 Episode 3 was canned so early on that it probably never actually went into development, despite Taxman having been approached by SEGA to work on it. 

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Count me in the camp that thinks there's no immediate plans for a sequel, but if sales are really good, SEGA will see profitability in things like this and possibly put out more. Who knows how Forces will do, there's barely any information out there on it, so it hasn't been covered much. Even then I'd suspect a classic style game is going to catch media attention than an all new 3D title would, just given the track record Modern Sonic has had with critics. That doesn't mean Forces will do bad, just that it may feel as if people don't give a crap about it compared to Mania.

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1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

Presently it can be argued so, but granted the future could change. We'll see.

But for now...

Mania = Good

Forces = Watch Out Samurai Jack

So is it

Mania = Samurai Jack Seasons 1-4

Forces = Samurai Jack Season 5?

If Samurai Jack is now a metaphor for a great product then sure, I can accept this comparison. 

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Interesting note I found, as of January of last year, Sega is still publicly denying Jackson's involvement in Sonic 3. Even though we all know that is complete and utter bullshit, I wonder how this public stance affects the Sonic 3 stage selection in Mania. My guess is they're going to avoid the latter 3 stages entirely. 

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4 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Interesting note I found, as of January of last year, Sega is still publicly denying Jackson's involvement in Sonic 3. Even though we all know that is complete and utter bullshit, I wonder how this public stance affects the Sonic 3 stage selection in Mania. My guess is they're going to avoid the latter 3 stages entirely. 

I wonder if the real reason remains the whole "they didn't like the SEGA sound" thing or if it's ACTUALLY because of Jackson's...

...Er...

Legal issues in the later part of his life...

I mean... I think it's a risk of the later causing issues than the former.

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2 hours ago, Zippo said:

Interesting note I found, as of January of last year, Sega is still publicly denying Jackson's involvement in Sonic 3. Even though we all know that is complete and utter bullshit, I wonder how this public stance affects the Sonic 3 stage selection in Mania. My guess is they're going to avoid the latter 3 stages entirely. 

It would be a real shame if they had to omit Carnival Night, Ice Cap or Launch Base from the game for that reason, but the only issues that have been raised from this were them having to replace the music tracks in those stages on an old PC port, but their ability to reuse them hasn't appeared to be an issue in literally every future port of the game. If these stages weren't present it would definitely not be for music licensing reasons.

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2 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I wonder if the real reason remains the whole "they didn't like the SEGA sound" thing or if it's ACTUALLY because of Jackson's...

...Er...

Legal issues in the later part of his life...

I mean... I think it's a risk of the later causing issues than the former.

My impression  has always been a mixture of the two. The allegations around Jackson made SEGA wary of a partnership, and at the same time Jackson was displeased with the audio quality. It's very possible the split was mutual.

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5 hours ago, JezMM said:

Just to respond to this, just because Sonic was in Green Hill, it doesn't mean the Time Eater specifically interrupted Sonic 1, before Sonic met Tails.  Green Hill exists outside of Sonic 1's story, Sonic may just revisit it to clear out Eggman's patrols sometimes.  I mean he's revisiting it in Mania after all.

All zones exist out of the main games. Hell the bases in 06 technically still exist but doesn't mean sonic always rushed back to them

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I wonder if Super Sonic will have any new abilities in this game. They may not want to bring back Hyper Sonic but if they wanted to they could give Super Sonic his air dash move.

maxresdefault.jpg

Also I'd love it if green eyez Super Sonic returned but he'll probably look like he does above basically.

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Regarding the Sonic 3 music problem, I wouldn't be surprised if what eventually ends up happening will be for Sega to get Tee Lopes to make replacement music for all the contractually problematic tracks, making sure this time that the contracts are iron-clad and they can use the new music whenever they want.

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13 hours ago, FFWF said:

Regarding the Sonic 3 music problem, I wouldn't be surprised if what eventually ends up happening will be for Sega to get Tee Lopes to make replacement music for all the contractually problematic tracks, making sure this time that the contracts are iron-clad and they can use the new music whenever they want.

I would rather they use the music from Sonic & Knuckles Collection. Seems like Sonic Team would rather not use the stages at all than use them without the true MJ involved music though.

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29 minutes ago, SonicDude said:

I would rather they use the music from Sonic & Knuckles Collection. Seems like Sonic Team would rather not use the stages at all than use them without the true MJ involved music though.

Maybe Sonic and Knuckles Collection for one act and Lego Dimensions for the other? (Perhaps the existence of the Lego Dimensions music indicates that the S&K collection music is also off-limits?)

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5 minutes ago, It's a Very Merry Miru said:

Maybe Sonic and Knuckles Collection for one act and Lego Dimensions for the other? (Perhaps the existence of the Lego Dimensions music indicates that the S&K collection music is also off-limits?)

I never played that lego game but I'm just guessing that it was cheaper/easier to use new music for those stages than to pay royalties for the Sonic & Knuckles Collection music to the Japanese composers. I don't think the Sonic & Knuckles collection music is off limits, since the purpose of it was to avoid trouble with the Michael Jackson thing, since technically the PC port wasn't a rerelease of the Genesis version which they have been allowed to do (e.g. The Backbone XBLA/PSN emulator version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles).

Also Traveller's Tales developed the game so Sonic Team was probably like whatever, use these existing stage names if you can't be f***ed.

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So guys, I know we have done these a lot, but I want to take a different spin. Instead of saying what zones we want, why don't we make a list of the level progression we think will appear, including new and old levels? Ill start!

South Island 

  • Green Hill Zone
  • Starlight Zone
  • Sunset Shipyard Zone (New, unknown spiky heavy)

Westside Island

  • Mystic Cave Zone
  • Studiopolis Zone (New)
  • Oil Ocean Zone
  • Mirage Saloon Zone (New)

Angel Island

  • Angel Island Zone
  • Hydrocity Zone
  • Frostbite Fortress Zone (New, based off the screenshot and knight heavy)
  • Flying Battery Zone
  • Lava Reef Zone

Little Planet

  • Quartz Quadrant Zone
  • Crazy Circus Zone (New, based off of the hat heavy)
  • Stardust Speedway

Emerald Ocean

  • Marine Base Zone
  • Egg Comet Zone
  • Final Flare Zone (Super Sonic Battle)

Again, these are just some ideas I came up with. What do you guys think about zones and their progression in Mania?

 

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18 hours ago, FFWF said:

Regarding the Sonic 3 music problem, I wouldn't be surprised if what eventually ends up happening will be for Sega to get Tee Lopes to make replacement music for all the contractually problematic tracks, making sure this time that the contracts are iron-clad and they can use the new music whenever they want.

So just remixing them is out of the question? I would have thought enough altering of the songs would allow it to legally be considered a different work. If Hideki Naganuma could get away with sampling other music for Sonic Rush (Wasn't Michael Jackson sampled for Rush's music? Its relevant to this after all.), I don't see why Tee Lopes can't do something similar.

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No, remixes are derivative works and you have to get permission from the original artist and pay them royalties or some other kind of fee, which is exactly the situation Sega clearly would rather avoid.  Same goes for sampling; if you don't get permission, it's an instant copyright violation.  To avoid the threat of legal action, any remix of the original S3 music would have to be so different ("transformative") as to essentially be unrecognisable (and even then they wouldn't be out of danger), at which point you might as well make a new song anyway.

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I'm pretty sure that if Lego Dimensions doesn't have some Sonic tracks is because SEGA said TT to pay copyright taxes in order to use that music (Not sure about Howard Drossin music, but certainly they have to pay for Nakamura's songs). I think they had more a money problem than a problem of permissions itself.

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Nakamura is probably easier to deal with as there's​ a bunch of Green Hill remixes. Don't know about other SEGA's former composers...

 

Anyways, the only S&K Collection's music I wouldn't mind seeing is Carnival Night Act 2. Maaaaybe Launch Base. But Ice Cap, both acts, are pretty bland, IMO. Would rather have a totaly new music. That is, if Ice Cap is actually in Mania [emoji14]

 

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15 hours ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

Again, these are just some ideas I came up with. What do you guys think about zones and their progression in Mania?

I recall someone making a statement somewhere (real specific, I know) to the effect that Mirage Saloon was quite a bit later in the game than the other levels they'd showcased (Green Hill Zone and Studiopolis, at that time), so I'd put that farther back in the running order.  Maybe shift Flying Battery to earlier, too; remixed or not, it started out as a second level.

Speaking of Flying Battery... my original theory was that returning zone minibosses are based on the original boss, but the Flying Battery Zone miniboss is really fitting.  Maybe the miniboss could be based on one of those inverted, flying Prison Eggs from Angel Island and Marble Garden instead?  Either the miniboss or boss could be some kind of weird scrap mecha, too, based off those heaps of crushed badniks lying around.

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I have played Lego Dimensions, and something interesting is that the Carnival Night music is there.

As in, its just a minor remix to the original Sonic 3 carnival night song. If they could get the Carnival Night music into that game, why would it be a problem for mania (other than financial stuff). Carnival Night was one of the zones that had the music replaced for the PC port of the game, yet the original Genesis version made it into Lego Dimensions. Strange?

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10 minutes ago, Gemster312 said:

I have played Lego Dimensions, and something interesting is that the Carnival Night music is there.

As in, its just a minor remix to the original Sonic 3 carnival night song. If they could get the Carnival Night music into that game, why would it be a problem for mania (other than financial stuff). Carnival Night was one of the zones that had the music replaced for the PC port of the game, yet the original Genesis version made it into Lego Dimensions. Strange?

The simple answer to this is; you're wrong, innit. It's not the original song.

It's actually considerably different, as with all the other Sonic tracks:

 

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On 3/27/2017 at 1:12 PM, FReaK said:

I also think mania is just the beginning of a new classic sonic sub franchise, I mean just look at the sales of the Collectors Edition - most of them are completely sold out. If this is any indicator of future sales then mania is going to be amazing for sega.

As impressive as that sounds, it kinda depends on how many Collectors Editions there were to order. It reminds me of how people were surprised by how fast Switches were selling out, even though (from what I gather) that was happening because Nintendo was only shipping out a limited number of 'em.

That said, I'm sure the game'll do well. Depending on how SEGA plays it (i.e. marketing) I could see it selling extremely well, even. But we'll have to wait and see. XP

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