Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Eggman needs to laugh more. He needs more Metal Sonics. He needs more robots to betrayal him. He needs more bumblebee antics. He needs more explosions.

 

Classic Eggman needs to have all those and be competent...and who cares about what's overused or not.

Bruh... I can't tell if that's legitimately serious or not.

More explosions I'm fine with though.

[Sega DogTagz]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

The plot will likely be the only disappointment Mania has to offer if "Betray the Eggman!" is the plot again, and I'm pointing all fingers at Iizuka if it happens.

Next you're gonna blame the dude for stealing Christmas and kicking your puppy on the way out the door right?

 

There is no point bemoaning a potential plot like this. Where did all that faith in the Dev team go all of the sudden? Even if they got handed a pre-made plot featuring this angle, I gotta trust those guys enough to strike the right cord to make even this tale enjoyable and engaging. They've given us no reason to doubt them so far, and the criticisms with Eggman being userpt on such a set pattern is almost as abundant as the criticisms for the wannabe classic games that Whitehead came in and fixed.

I don't know how much water this plot point speculation holds, but I'm not about to get up in arms about it considering the good work being put into Mania so far. I'm willing to trust that they nail story execution too. How you tell something can be even more important than what you are telling. For all we know, a HBH betrayal could be little more than an a Metal Sonic complex, where a zealous over-pursuit of Sonic can lead to horrific losses for Eggman. Or a refusal of a retreat order issued by the doctor could lead to their outright destruction, in lieu of falling back for repairs and living to fight another day. There are a million ways to spin a betrayal - no need to get all worked up about it now.

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Next you're gonna blame the dude for stealing Christmas and kicking your puppy on the way out the door right?

 

There is no point bemoaning a potential plot like this. Where did all that faith in the Dev team go all of the sudden? Even if they got handed a pre-made plot featuring this angle, I gotta trust those guys enough to strike the right cord to make even this tale enjoyable and engaging. They've given us no reason to doubt them so far, and the criticisms with Eggman being userpt on such a set pattern is almost as abundant as the criticisms for the wannabe classic games that Whitehead came in and fixed.

I don't know how much water this plot point speculation holds, but I'm not about to get up in arms about it considering the good work being put into Mania so far. I'm willing to trust that they nail story execution too. How you tell something can be even more important than what you are telling. For all we know, a HBH betrayal could be little more than an a Metal Sonic complex, where a zealous over-pursuit of Sonic can lead to horrific losses for Eggman. Or a refusal of a retreat order issued by the doctor could lead to their outright destruction, in lieu of falling back for repairs and living to fight another day. There are a million ways to spin a betrayal - no need to get all worked up about it now.

There's plenty of faith. I just don't want two Robotnik's/Eggmen doing the exact same things basically when it comes to their roles in the games, that being downplayed by monsters/coup's of the week until there's little if any respect left for the villain himself.

So long as Mania and its hopeful sequels provide a Robotnik/Eggman that stands higher than his Modern self then I'm satisfied.

[Sega DogTagz]

6 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

So long as Mania and its hopeful sequels provide a Robotnik/Eggman that stands higher than his Modern self then I'm satisfied.

Doesn't Eggman hold like 99% of the world in Forces?

....just sayin...

 

[Chris Knopps]

12 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Doesn't Eggman hold like 99% of the world in Forces?

....just sayin...

 

This is true, but for now we've yet to see how he behaves, hear how he speaks, and find out how his robots act toward him, if any exist that are akin to Or and Cu at least.

Plus we don't know if there's some weird Neo Metal Sonic thing happening all over again ala Heroes.

I'm impressed about his victory, but it depends on who he is and the plot behind it all in the game.

[Sega DogTagz]

Irregardless, it would be the forth straight game where Eggman has quite literally held his boot to the collective throats of a global scale populous to the extent of planetary domination (Wisps, Time Eater, Zeti, Forces) whereas the only factor that prevented it from continuing was Sonic's direct intervention.

If you want Classic Eggy to be held in high esteem by "what" he does, recent Modern Eggy isn't a bad act to follow.

[Chris Knopps]

43 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Irregardless, it would be the forth straight game where Eggman has quite literally held his boot to the collective throats of a global scale populous to the extent of planetary domination (Wisps, Time Eater, Zeti, Forces) whereas the only factor that prevented it from continuing was Sonic's direct intervention.

If you want Classic Eggy to be held in high esteem by "what" he does, recent Modern Eggy isn't a bad act to follow.

The problem is absolutely none of those plots went anywhere. They had no chance at all to show any sort of consequences.

Colors failed to show Eggman even utilize his mind-control device on the planet. You saw nobody on the surface turned into a mindless zombie chanting "Hail Eggman" or anything. You just got a random tiny zap on Tails that lasted a moment. They could have showed the world gradually succumbing to his device throughout the game as its power, and in turn coverage of the planet, increased.

Zeti was fairly lackluster as well. They just slurp a bit of life from a single area of land for the most part. You don't see anything beyond "plants" fade away and/or die. You just hear a melodramatic moment from Amy, poorly done/written at that. You don't really get to enjoy the full impact of what the device could have done, you miss out on the potential of both it and the plot out of playing it "sensitive" basically.

I suppose the Time Easter was nice but it 06'ed itself so... It happened, it didn't, random game come and gone.

I can give Forces itself credit for finally abandoning this "Poor children! Shield them!" mindset I've felt in the games you brought up. You see the destruction, it's pretty clear killing is happening because of the explosions and such.

Edit

Apologies... This is a debate becoming more about Forces than Mania, cutting it off here on my end folks.

[Sega DogTagz]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

The problem is absolutely none of those plots went anywhere. They had no chance at all to show any sort of consequences.

But there were plenty of consequences on display on how Eggman managed to get from point A to point B. He used enslavement and abuse in Colors, Generations and Lost World to get what he wanted, subjugating entire races to living under his rule. On top of that, he basically robitisized the Time Eater. The Zeti, the Wisps and the Time Eater were all put on their knees. That's no different then what would have happened if Eggy got to fire his mind control cannon.

The journey is just as important as the finish line, probably even more so considering there is a spiky blue hedgehog with more plot armor than Goku waiting for him at the end.

Mania would do well to remember that. Sonic is going to win in the end. So long as the doctor gets to play it up in transit to that finish line, we'll have something to enjoy. If you think breaking planets isn't enough then I don't know what to tell ya.

 

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

I suppose the Time Easter was nice but it 06'ed itself so... It happened, it didn't, random game come and gone.

 

How so?

Classic Sonic and Tails were both present at Modern's B-Day party. That couldn't come to be without that game actually happening. It may have occurred in a pocket dimension that no longer exists, but it most certainly happened. Sonic even proved that by retaining his memories of the events when he realized his Chili-Dog was still warm.

 

 

 

[Alienrun]

On 5/31/2017 at 3:23 PM, molul said:

 

Not trying to be a dick, but someone else's live reactions Youtube videos are probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen from Youtubers. Seriously, I don't get it.

Unless its from Etika himself, its usually a crap reaction...even if you think he's faking it, there's something really priceless about what he does...

Though I agree with you, it is a bit rediculous if you attempt to take these seriously...its an easy way to get views so in that regard its not surprising that people make these.

On 5/31/2017 at 10:38 PM, Sonictrainer said:

I can't wait to use the Flame Shield in Stardust Speedway

I'm curious to know why...this seems really random.

[StaticMania]

It's not random.

 

Plant life + Fire = Random...?

[Alienrun]

I didn't think of that...still...because the plants are new, there's a good chance it won't affect anything.

[molul]

1 hour ago, Alienrun said:

Unless its from Etika himself, its usually a crap reaction...even if you think he's faking it, there's something really priceless about what he does...

Though I agree with you, it is a bit rediculous if you attempt to take these seriously...its an easy way to get views so in that regard its not surprising that people make these.

 

Well, I wasn't actually blaming the youtubers. The action itself (uploading a video for a supposedly spontaneous live reaction, which most likely is overreacted and fake), I don't really mind about it (although it screams "Hey! Look at me doing useless stuff! Love me!").

What freaks me out is that people actually find that type of contents interesting, like it's worth spending time on seeing that. I mean, what does it matter if someone else is enjoying an announcement? Is it because he's famous and you find joy from the fact that a famous person you follow is feeling the same about something (Sonic Mania in this case) you're anticipating? What kind of weird voyeurism is that? XD

Again, not trying to offend anyone. To each their own. It's just that, psychologically, I don't get it at all :-?

[Alienrun]

Nah I get you @molul Its just it can be interesting if you see update videos from the same guy and he's hyping up the game before the announcement of it...it makes the "reaction" much more worthwhile ESPECIALLY if its on a live stream and your there with him counting down till the trailer pops up! (Again I only felt this way with Etika, but I'll be quick to admit how stupid the idea is in the grand scheme of things.)

Like in this specific example I've seen people accuse this guy for the very same reasons you put out...only for people to go "well where else am I supposed to go to see someone get hyped up?" or "Well where else do I go to see the hype man?"...basically some people just like it just because...

Though I do see your point very well as I used to feel exactly the same way...in the long run its better to find actual friends to bounce your thoughts off of and, dare I say it, "react" with. I suppose though some kids and "internet dwellers" don't have those kinds of friends and would appreciate just getting a taste of that experience and the comfort of thier computer.

I know Etika got me hyped up for the switch despite how alienating it was to most people...even though I could have watched the video at my friends house lol XD

[StaticMania]

It's not necessary to "get" something...you only ever need to understand that it is the way it is.

 

It's like, if you aren't interested in "Reaction Vids" it's the same as being uninterested in anything else.

 

Or dislike, but nobody dislikes stuff.

[Alienrun]

He meant "get the appeal", there a lot of things I'll admit I don't get the appeal of so I was trying to explain it!

[Red Hot Jack]

I have a theory... a game theory. Since some have noted that the new mansion stage looks a lot like the one seen in the background of Stardust Speedway, instead of it being part of the stage, what if it's a brand new zone that takes place immediately after Stardust Speedway? We know this game has level transitions. It would be interesting.

[gato]

18 hours ago, OcelotBot said:

Ha ha, so cute <3

 

 

I see your Mr.ThiccCat and raise you...

 

As for the story, I might be remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure we haven't seen any sign of Eggman across any of the game's footage (except for his art). In Mirage Saloon the one who has all the portraits and self aggrandizing stuff is one of the HBH, and lastly, (and I'm aware of how far I'm reaching here) in recent footage of Flying Battery we've seen Eggman signs being thrown to the trash compactor. I know we have end of act signs but I can't remember if Eggman's (or a blue Knuckles) face was present on it.

Could it be possible that the whole HBH mutiny on Eggman is actually the set up for this game instead of an event that happens later on? (think about Lost World, except that Eggman gets betrayed before the game even starts)

For all we know, we could also be on an Heroes scenario where Metal was behind everything. (tho a part of me is screaming that it shouldn't be like that because if that were the case why would he do that again who knows how many years in the future when Heroes actually happens)

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, Studiopolis exists. And IIRC it's supposed to be one of the later zones on the game

 

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

What if the betrayal is faked and eggman wanted sonic and tails to think it was a real betrayal just to throw them off his trail or something?

[expansivelovestories]

2 hours ago, Chameleon94 said:

I have a theory... a game theory. Since some have noted that the new mansion stage looks a lot like the one seen in the background of Stardust Speedway, instead of it being part of the stage, what if it's a brand new zone that takes place immediately after Stardust Speedway? We know this game has level transitions. It would be interesting.

I think it is possible at least for there to be new zones found on familiar locations, for example some people have theorized that Mirage Saloon might be taking place on West Side Island.

There is a guess that perhaps the four Heavies, aside from the leader, have taken control of outposts/territories of some sort, on South Island, West Side Island, Little Planet, and Floating Island.  Then the leader Heavy and Eggman are both at large as well?

If your theory is tuning into the team's thought process, it might even be that the theorized Ninja Heavy is on Floating Island, in a new zone that is a mix of the Sonic 1 Japanese mountains concept art, and Azure Lake!   

 

[Radiant Hero Ike]

5 hours ago, molul said:

Well, I wasn't actually blaming the youtubers. The action itself (uploading a video for a supposedly spontaneous live reaction, which most likely is overreacted and fake), I don't really mind about it (although it screams "Hey! Look at me doing useless stuff! Love me!").

What freaks me out is that people actually find that type of contents interesting, like it's worth spending time on seeing that. I mean, what does it matter if someone else is enjoying an announcement? Is it because he's famous and you find joy from the fact that a famous person you follow is feeling the same about something (Sonic Mania in this case) you're anticipating? What kind of weird voyeurism is that? XD

Again, not trying to offend anyone. To each their own. It's just that, psychologically, I don't get it at all :-?

I like reaction videos, and Tyson Hesse (one of the main animators for the trailer) said some of em had him in tears, so...

Personally I don't care if someone's famous or not, I just love seeing someone excited about something. It's like when someone around you laughs and you can't help but smile.

Anywho. I can honestly say I've never seen Stardust Speedway past. I wasn't very good at going back in time in CD so I didn't see a lot of the alternate stages. It looks really cool to me. Very jungle like.

[StaticMania]

If Stardust Speedway wasn't made out of trumpets, it's Good future would probably look more like the Nature + Technology thing it was going for.

[Sonikko]

I really think that even if Mania had no story to begin with it would be an awesome game. Are you really going to be disappointed with this game because of the story? There isn't even dialogue... C'mon. It's not like the classic games were story driven either.

The only thing that I could se as a disappointment is the presence of 60/40 ratio of remixed levels, and that's not even a bad thing per-se, it's just that returning tropes and layouts have been over-used in the Sonic franchise. And we still have to see how the Mania team developed that. 

I know this game will be great.

[Rummy]

3 hours ago, Sonikko said:

I really think that even if Mania had no story to begin with it would be an awesome game. Are you really going to be disappointed with this game because of the story? There isn't even dialogue... C'mon. It's not like the classic games were story driven either.

The only thing that I could se as a disappointment is the presence of 60/40 ratio of remixed levels, and that's not even a bad thing per-se, it's just that returning tropes and layouts have been over-used in the Sonic franchise. And we still have to see how the Mania team developed that. 

I know this game will be great.

I made an account to say this, i've been lurking this topic for about 7 months now.

While i'm very excited about Mania as much as the other guys around here. I feel like having a concise and built up story helps give a motivation to get though the game. Part of why i love Sonic 3 & Knuckles is because it had this huge story centred around the Death Egg and Angel Island, It felt very adventurous and vivid and yet very minimal and straightforward. Whatever the Maniacs have planned, I think it's going to turn out great.

Same can be said about most Classic Era story lines, Even Sonic R and Sonic The Fighters. Sweet. Simple. Motivating and Straightforward.

[Psychicmoose103]

So, what if the other act of stardust speedway is a different time period. Which one do you guys think is most likely? Here is my opinion..

Present - A starlit city. Probably the least likely since we already have a starlit city (Studiopolis.)

Bad Future - I feel like, considering Sonic Mania likes to keep the classics, that this future wouldn't exist in Sonic Mania. It's an evil dystopian future city, with red clouds lining the sky.

Good Future - I think this is the most likely. It seems to be a happy, and futuristic amusement park. Lots of neet gimmicks could appear.

[mikeblastdude]

I personally would like to see the second Act of Stardust Speedway take place in the Bad Future. I suppose the Good Future would probably be considered to be the canonical one, so I would definitely accept that, but all of my personal nostalgia lies with the Bad Future, so to me (and a lot of others who failed to get good futures I'm sure), that's the definitive version of the Metal Sonic race in Sonic CD. Also, in both soundtracks, I love the Bad Future variants way more than the Good Future ones.