Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[Zippo]

34 minutes ago, OcelotBot said:

Here: 

 

Thanks! Cannot wait! We are almost a week away now! Almost there!

[Solly]

3 hours ago, Rummy said:

In a change of subject. I felt like i wanted to talk about the demo builds shown for this game.

If there's one thing i've noticed from the San Diego to The Late 2016 Build is that after you land a drop dash. Sonic's Ball sprite seems to flicker between his actual shape and the "pinball" form. But within the exception of the Switch Build, All shown builds after 2016 have shown Sonic turning into a solid pinball after a roll by random chance or via the drop dash. 

This is some evidence to stand my point. Anyway from a visual standpoint i actually really like this. It gives Sonic a lot more of a placebo effect and with how much pinball like mechanics have influenced 2D Sonic, It's very nice to see it like this. Perhaps this is a bug or a randomised occurrence. but i love seeing sonic turn into a pinball for a few seconds. 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think this has to do with the footage here being 30fps. 

Sonic Mania normally runs at 60fps, so when the footage is presented like this, half of the frames get cut, and you're not always seeing it flicker between the "solid blue ball" sprite and the normal spinning sprites. 

You can sometimes see this in 30fps footage of other games. Like in this old Game Grumps clip (it's the best example I could find).

 

Shadow takes damage, and is supposed to flicker in and out during his invincibility frames, but appears completely solid because the frames where he's "out" weren't captured. Then the exact opposite happens when it switches to the results screen, and he's completely invisible for a few seconds before reappearing. 

[Sonikko]

2 hours ago, Solly said:

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think this has to do with the footage here being 30fps. 

Sonic Mania normally runs at 60fps, so when the footage is presented like this, half of the frames get cut, and you're not always seeing it flicker between the "solid blue ball" sprite and the normal spinning sprites. 

You can sometimes see this in 30fps footage of other games. Like in this old Game Grumps clip (it's the best example I could find).

 

Shadow takes damage, and is supposed to flicker in and out during his invincibility frames, but appears completely solid because the frames where he's "out" weren't captured. Then the exact opposite happens when it switches to the results screen, and he's completely invisible for a few seconds before reappearing. 

Yep exactly. It was an effect present in the classic games too. It was in Sonic Adventure 1 too, You can see Sonic's model during his jump. I always thought that it's because Sonic rolls very fast and his shapes and colours mix up to the naked eye.

[neezTHEhuman]

I hate to be 'that person' but does anyone else have slight misgivings about fundamentals like level maps and object/enemy placement?  Perhaps those who have played the demo at conventions can assuage these doubts I've been having for a while.

[Indigo Rush]

I have absolutely no doubts that the level design is in the best of hands from what I've seen and heard. Plenty of smooth flowing platforming, high speed bits, at least three or more paths and all that delicious Classic Sonical goodness. 

Looking forward to seeing how they mix up CD's Zones. CW said Sonic CD wasn't his cup of tea for level design, so I wonder how they're going to approach Stardust Speedway. Apparently, so far, it involves making it an overgrown jungle, and I like it. 

[JosepHenry]

1 hour ago, neezTHEhuman said:

I hate to be 'that person' but does anyone else have slight misgivings about fundamentals like level maps and object/enemy placement?  Perhaps those who have played the demo at conventions can assuage these doubts I've been having for a while.

1:57 2:27

GHZ Act 2 has some "cheap-ish" spike placements if you do stupid moves, but only the most pathetic of people are going to say that this game sucks thanks to that.

[Indigo Rush]

2:27 is definitely a filter to keep Tails in and Sonic out. Alternate paths, baby. 

[JosepHenry]

8 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

2:27 is definitely a filter to keep Tails in and Sonic out. Alternate paths, baby. 

Alternative paths for Tails? I think that's a first! Did Sonic3&K any for him?

[Celestia]

There's definitely some Tails-only paths in 3, though they're generally pretty brief diversions compared to Knuckles' exclusive areas.

The ones I remember for sure are one or two in Angel Island, and I think at least one in Marble Garden?

[gato]

Tails had a unique path on Death Egg of all places.

I mean, technically you could reach it with Knuckles, but he doesn't visit the Death Egg (nor can defeat the Act 1 boss)

[JezMM]

Tails had a few unique paths added to the Sonic 1 and 2 mobile ports too although they are all doable (if a little trickier) as Sonic & Tails as well, and I think Knuckles can access at least most of them too.

 

 

Also I keep forgetting to bring this up but... my ONE pet peeve with this game that I utterly loathe, is how obnoxious the 1up jingle is.  It's WAY too big a fanfare and it's super annoying to hear it over and over when you get a gaggle of lives in a row.  I really wish it was just a simple, non-music-interrupting sound effect like Sonic CD uses.

[expansivelovestories]

1 hour ago, neezTHEhuman said:

I hate to be 'that person' but does anyone else have slight misgivings about fundamentals like level maps and object/enemy placement? 

You most certainly are not being "that person"!  The team has similar scrutiny of their own work, as such both Sergio and Aaron have felt free to comment during streams of the game that the level layouts seen are from an alpha build.  They have said that layouts could be very different in the final game.  It is hard for us to tell what would change due to the layouts at least having to be sophisticated/complete enough to appeal to everyone playtesting and watching streams and official videos of zones!  

There was also a video interview where, I think it was Aaron, described how the team has to figure out a balanced extent of placement that uses the characters' speed and momentum to trap them with an otherwise easily surpassed badnik, partially because that does happen in the original games. 

[Psychicmoose103]

I wonder if Knuckles will only have small different paths, or some levels will be the same, some will have a few knuckles only routes, and some acts will be completely different for him?

Hydrocity Act 2 has a little alternate section at the end

Launch Base Act 2 and Angel Island Act 2 are completely different levels

I believe Flying Battery is the exact same for Knuckles

What do you all think?
 

Also, I think stages from the second half of Sonic 3 may be able to get in. What if they only take small parts of the original tracks, and have the rest keep the theme of the stage but be original, so there are no issues? I still wanna see Hydrocity, but Carnival Night and Ice Cap are cool too

[TheOcelot]

46 minutes ago, Celestia said:

There's definitely some Tails-only paths in 3, though they're generally pretty brief diversions compared to Knuckles' exclusive areas.

The ones I remember for sure are one or two in Angel Island, and I think at least one in Marble Garden?

Actually, nearly every single act in 3&K has Tails-only routes (some much longer than others).

 

19 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Tails had few unique paths added to the Sonic 1 and 2 mobile ports too.

Those extra routes added in the remasters can be completed with Tails & Knuckles (as well as Sonic with Tails assist).

 

11 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

I wonder if Knuckles will only have small different paths, or some levels will be the same, some will have a few knuckles only routes, and some acts will be completely different for him?

Hydrocity Act 2 has a little alternate section at the end

Launch Base Act 2 and Angel Island Act 2 are completely different levels

I believe Flying Battery is the exact same for Knuckles
What do you all think?

Based on all the footage we've seen there doesn't appear to be any major level design restrictions for Knuckles so far. Knuckles only ever had restricted design in the Sonic 3&K stages (Flying Battery being the exception as it didn't have any Knuckles-only layouts).

I'm hoping Knuckles has access to most of the same level design as Sonic & Tails in addition to some small mostly optional Knuckles-only routes. 

[StaticMania]

Knuckers could possibly get his own alternative pathaways, that'd be neat. Sections designed specifically for him as to down the commonly brought up issue with his ability and other ability.

 

The levels would have to bee even bigger than they're already seeming...and he doesn't need expansive Knuckles-only areas.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

2 hours ago, neezTHEhuman said:

I hate to be 'that person' but does anyone else have slight misgivings about fundamentals like level maps and object/enemy placement?  Perhaps those who have played the demo at conventions can assuage these doubts I've been having for a while.

There was this stupid snail thing in Studiopolis that I couldn't figure out how to get past without getting hit... It seemed like you were supposed to hit it before it attacked or you were out of luck.

Other than that everything seemed fine to me. Nothing annoyed me like it did in Sonic 1.

[Indigo Rush]

Off topic, but I'd like it when, during the credits where they list off Christian Whitehead, Simon Thomley, etc, you can press and hold a button and everyone's names (where applicable) will change to their Sonic Retro online handle with their avatars (Taxman, Stealth) just as a heartfelt reminder that this game is made by the fans, for the fans.

[StaticMania]

We'd all like to wish for the impossible...

 

And that seems really specific...

[JezMM]

47 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

We'd all like to wish for the impossible...

 

And that seems really specific...

It's not actually that far out of the realms of possibility.  If I recall Sonic 1 has a secret credits screen that lists the developers real names instead of their odd codenames they use in the regular credits.  It'd also be kinda similar to the little secret in which you can change Tails' name to "Miles" in Sonic 2.

[Tracker_TD]

4 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Knuckers could possibly get his own alternative pathaways, that'd be neat. Sections designed specifically for him as to down the commonly brought up issue with his ability and other ability.

 

The levels would have to bee even bigger than they're already seeming...and he doesn't need expansive Knuckles-only areas.

From what I can gather, he does. Sonic can seemingly access this area too, but he's shit out of luck after hitting the spring; you need Knuckles (or Tails) to continue. Not to mention his Mirage Saloon 2 startpoint is also different to Sonic's suggesting considerably different stage paths.

[BlueFlare]

In Sonic 3 I love it when as Knuckles you can just run through and break rocks and certain walls. That's the shit.

[Sega DogTagz]

4 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

 

From what I can gather, he does. Sonic can seemingly access this area too, but he's shit out of luck after hitting the spring; you need Knuckles (or Tails) to continue.

Ehh, the bubble bounce or the elec double jump might have something to say about that. The spikes on the right make for a good middle foothold and are well within the range of those two moves.

With a spindash at the right angle, or an assist from some of the elemental sheilds, Sonic may well be able to access some of the character specific shortcuts that are blocked off by basic level design. I'm sure a good deal of that is intentional (a bit of a reward for carrying a shield around for x amount of time). Its little things like that which make the replay-ability factor shoot up.

[TheOcelot]

18 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

From what I can gather, he does. Sonic can seemingly access this area too, but he's shit out of luck after hitting the spring; you need Knuckles (or Tails) to continue. Not to mention his Mirage Saloon 2 startpoint is also different to Sonic's suggesting considerably different stage paths.

What if Tails and Sonic (with Tails assist) can also make it through at least some of Knuckles routes and also start Mirage Saloon act2 from the other starting area?  Now that would interesting.

[Psychicmoose103]

I don't think Sonic was actually supposed to be able to get in there. When it happened, he activated a drop dash on a pixel of standable ground to the left of it, so it could be a bug

[Chris Knopps]

5 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Off topic, but I'd like it when, during the credits where they list off Christian Whitehead, Simon Thomley, etc, you can press and hold a button and everyone's names (where applicable) will change to their Sonic Retro online handle with their avatars (Taxman, Stealth) just as a heartfelt reminder that this game is made by the fans, for the fans.

--in Partnership With--

T A K A S H I - I I Z U K A

Fireworks go off in a totally non-egotistical manner. lol

8 hours ago, neezTHEhuman said:

I hate to be 'that person' but does anyone else have slight misgivings about fundamentals like level maps and object/enemy placement?  Perhaps those who have played the demo at conventions can assuage these doubts I've been having for a while.

I admit I'm kinda iffy on some clustered looking locations but by and large the game is sweet through and through.

Quote

I don't think Sonic was actually supposed to be able to get in there. When it happened, he activated a drop dash on a pixel of standable ground to the left of it, so it could be a bug

There have been some collision problems and corkscrew issues but by now that stuff should be well beyond fixed.