Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[TheOcelot]

6 hours ago, JingleBoy said:

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but did they ever mention if there'll be a 2 player co-op with Tails like the old days? It would seem like a huge oversight to not have Tails follow Sonic.

Well, Sonic with Tails (AI) following is the canon playthrough in Sonic 2 and 3&K, so I would be surprised and a bit disappointed if you don't get this option in Mania.

As Mania is coming to consoles, just like with Sonic 2 it should be easy to design it so that a second player can take control of Tails in local co-op. Trying to implement online co-op in this form seems like more trouble than it's worth. Sonic 4 Ep2 did a decent job but had it's flaws. In Sonic 2 if the second player (Tails) disappeared off screen then they would have to wait for Tails to re-appear before they can control him again, which - to be honest - would suffice in Mania. I would much prefer a separate two player vs mode over online co-op in singe player.

In terms of a two player vs mode (online and local), I would like something akin to Sonic 2's with the winner of each act decided based on; score, item boxes, who finishes the act first, rings and total rings. I prefer Sonic 2's two-player vs over Sonic 3's.

In Mania I think you will be able to play as Sonic alone, Tails alone, Knuckles alone, Sonic & Tails. I've got my fingers crossed we'll also be able to play as Knuckles & Tails (AI), because they were playable in this form via a glitch in Sonic 1 remastered, which StealthTax then added to Sonic 2 remastered. So it would be a nice nod to the remasters if you can play with Knuckles and Tails AI again. 

 

6 hours ago, Marcello said:

If there's a Mania 2, I want absolutely no old stages.

Agreed, although I've got no problem with some of the stages being based on re-imagined zones in Mania. After all, whilst Mania is a brand new game, with new zones and a new story it is also in-part a celebration of the 25th anniversary of the classic games. So re-designing some of the classic stages should appeal to the older audience, surely it's got to be a smart move. If Mania had been made 20 years ago then all the stages would definitely have been new.

If we get a Mania 2, then, yeah it should have all brand new stages. Whilst I'd still want the classic proper momentum physics formula which works so well, I'd actually like a new game with state-of-the-art modern graphics. Don't get me wrong I love Mania's 32bit visuals, it looks so good up close. However, I see no reason why we shouldn't have a 2d game which amazing graphics pushing the limits to what a 2018/2019 game can achieve.

 

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I think it'd be pretty neat if they remade some post-Classic levels too. I'd love to see stages like Metal Harbor, Hang Castle, or White Acropolis get remixed. Of course that's never going to happen, Mania is clearly intended to cater to die-hard Classic fans above all else, which obviously that means they won't risk alienating Classic purists by referencing stuff from the quote unquote "bad half" of the franchise, however cool it may be. 

I'm loving the references to the other classics and other platforms (like Game Gear) as well as other SEGA franchises like Street of Rage. I thinks it's better to stick to the classic games when designing new and re-imagine zones. Mania is a classic game at heart and SEGA will understandably want to play-up the classic angle as much as possible.

 

5 hours ago, JezMM said:

Oh I forgot this, adds to my headcanon that the master emerald's power helped quickly restore the damaged areas of the island.

(And adds an amusing thought of Knuckles being like "REALLY!?  THESE PLANTS JUST FINISHED REGROWING!" when Egg Robo returns to mess with the island again).

The canon of Knuckles story and exactly when it takes place is an unnecessary headache in contrast to how well Sonic & Tails' story is told.

Am I the only one who cheered when Mecha Sonic accidently destroys Egg-Robo when Knuckles escapes his trap in the Sky Sanctuary showdown

Then Knuckles destroys Super Mecha Sonic because KNUCKLES IS A BADASS!!!

Surely Knuckles story in Mania will take place at the same time as Sonic & Tails.  

[Jango]

^^^^^  These discussions sparked an idea. You know what would be a nice and simple way to avoid story conflicts between characters? If in the main game (story mode let's say), you could choose which of the three characters would you like to play as before each Zone (or maybe even Act). That way, it would become clear that the 3 amigos are venturing together throughout the game. Maybe even, in some zones, let's say, Green Hill, you're unable to select anyone besides Sonic for plot reasons. You would of course be able to play as Tails and Knuckles after completing the game via stage select or new game plus.

Not only that, but this approach opens opportunities to for example -Tails is captured after Zone X and you have to save him- and others story shenanigans.

[JingleBoy]

21 hours ago, BenderMania said:

In Mania I think you will be able to play as Sonic alone, Tails alone, Knuckles alone, Sonic & Tails. I've got my fingers crossed we'll also be able to play as Knuckles & Tails (AI), because they were playable in this form via a glitch in Sonic 1 remastered, which StealthTax then added to Sonic 2 remastered. So it would be a nice nod to the remasters if you can play with Knuckles and Tails AI again. 

haha I'd love to see a Sonic & Knuckles AI/ Knuckles & Sonic AI just to shake things up. I can understand why they probably wouldn't want to make things so complicated though, otherwise it might end up as Sonic Advance 3 part 2! 

[WakanoBaka]

I like how the graphics remind me of Sparkster for the SNES.

 

Damn, have we fans really come a long way since the 90s... 

3 hours ago, Jango said:

^^^^^  These discussions sparked an idea. You know what would be a nice and simple way to avoid story conflicts between characters? If in the main game (story mode let's say), you could choose which of the three characters would you like to play as before each Zone (or maybe even Act). That way, it would become clear that the 3 amigos are venturing together throughout the game. Maybe even, in some zones, let's say, Green Hill, you're unable to select anyone besides Sonic for plot reasons. You would of course be able to play as Tails and Knuckles after completing the game via stage select or new game plus.

Not only that, but this approach opens opportunities to for example -Tails is captured after Zone X and you have to save him- and others story shenanigans.

This I agree with VERY much

[Sonictrainer]

On August 14, 2016 at 7:15 PM, Bowbowis said:

I think it'd be pretty neat if they remade some post-Classic levels too. I'd love to see stages like Metal Harbor, Hang Castle, or White Acropolis get remixed. Of course that's never going to happen, Mania is clearly intended to cater to die-hard Classic fans above all else, which obviously that means they won't risk alienating Classic purists by referencing stuff from the quote unquote "bad half" of the franchise, however cool it may be. 

I felt like the Huge Crisis Zone from Sonic Rush was like a 2D Version of Metal Harbor.

Though if they do decide to remix levels from any of the Eras, I hope levels from some of the Handheld Games get remixed or referenced, especially some of the Game Gear Games and the Advance Trilogy.

[Celestia]

I think it'd be cool to see new zones that use level tropes that didn't pop up until later in the series. For example, a "haunted" level like the ones in Heroes/ShTH (and I guess technically SA2), but clearly a new location rather than Mystic Mansion.

[Jango]

Agreed, both Hang Castle and Mystic Mansion are one of a kind zones. I also like zones that combine tropes, like Sonic 4 tried to do with Winter Park Zone (I think that's the name?). And also zones that change completely from act 1 to act 2, like Lava Reef and Sandopolis.

[ChikoLad]

Sanic pls stahp, Studiopolis sounds great...

[FunkDoc1112]

Probably only tangibly related to Sonic Mania, but did anybody peep this tweet?

 

I absolutely LOVE the modern/classic Sonic hybrid here. This is the inbetween "pre-teen" version of his design that I wanted to see Sonic 4 explore. It's not too late for Mania either!

[Muscles Maximum]

Woah, that model is awesome. I always thought something looked off with classic Sonic in Generations but that looks great. 

[Jango]

THAT MODEL IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. IT'S TEN TIMES BETTER THAN GENERATIONS OHMYGAWD!!!

[Lord-Dreamerz]

Yeah I like that Classic Sonic model too! It does seem better then the generations version... But perhaps it's actually the same model... except just a better render that is nicely animated with a different shade of blue?

[Sega DogTagz]

Could a man dream and suggest that model might be the one they end up using for 2017?
 That is the first render of Classic that has floored me in quite a while. Utterly fantastic.

[TheDanimator]

Yeah I always thought the generations model looked a bit too...cute?
Classic sonic had a good mix of badass and cute back in the day and this model provides that.

[StaticMania]

Apparently it was only the eyes that really needed changing if that fan-model is suppose to be "that" much better. Darker fur, slightly longer quills/spikes/needles, and slightly longer legs don't make that much of a difference.

[Mark1]

That model is dope. Although the official classic Sonic model still looks amazing to this day. Not complaining either way. 

Too addicted to Studiopolis. Could listen to it all day. Let me share the extended edition for the ears to listen to today ??

 

[Salamander]

In retrospect, I'm pretty sure Generations Classic Sonic wasn't meant to be a perfect, 1:1 adaptation of a Genesis sprite but rather was intentionally tailored to be just different enough to be easily distinguishable from Modern Sonic.  If his proportions were a little bit squatter, his colour a little bit lighter, his attitude a little bit cuter than we remember, it's probably precisely because Sonic Team wanted him to stand out a bit more.  In short, I think what they were shooting for in the Generations design was, ironically, not design continuity; they wanted the two to look as different as the same character could look, and they sure weren't going to make drastic changes to the character design they'd been using as the current one for the last however many years.

[TheOcelot]

Here's a few nice remix's of Studiopolis; Genesis & Super Nintendo Style:

 

Oh and gotta post this, I mean, Fresh prince and Sonic mash-ups always turn out good. 

 

17 hours ago, FunkDoc1112 said:

 

Yeah this render looks nice. Maybe it's just me but I think it would look just as good (if not better) in Mania's lighter blue/turquoise color?

I'd quite like to see a render of Modern Sonic in Mania's colors.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

11 hours ago, FFWF said:

In retrospect, I'm pretty sure Generations Classic Sonic wasn't meant to be a perfect, 1:1 adaptation of a Genesis sprite but rather was intentionally tailored to be just different enough to be easily distinguishable from Modern Sonic.

Yeah, wasn't generations classic Sonic based after this old design sheet for him?

Which would explain a lot... such as the choice of blue used.

[JingleBoy]

Y'know there is one thing I'm slightly worried about and it's the Eggman monitor:

It's not really its existence that bugs me, but the fact that it's here in Green Hill Zone - a stage that I'm assuming takes place early in this game - that bugs me. I never really liked these monitors in S3&K but they at least only showed up towards the end of the game when you'd expect twists to come in. A lot of fan-games are notorious for the abuse of these and I honestly feel that they're just incredibly cheap and can easily lead novices and younger players to get confused. It's a cheap way to mess with a player's curiosity imo.

I'm seriously hoping that their inclusion will be kept to an absolute minimum.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the less sense it makes for it to even be there in the first place. Usually a good item or a large collection of rings will be placed on top of a loop as a reward to the player for making it up there. This is weirdly placed though because how is this meant to give an incentive to exploration? 

[StaticMania]

Those monitors are only ever in Ice Cap in Complete S3&K(In act 2)...and Launch Base in Sonic 3 alone. Being in the first level isn't a problem as long as the placement of them isn't cheap and minimum usage would also be nice. They only require you to pay attention a bit more than normal...can't say the same about S3&K because they're only in one area where it's impossible to hit them unless you don't pay attention to monitor icons at all.

[expansivelovestories]

2 hours ago, JingleBoy said:

Y'know there is one thing I'm slightly worried about and it's the Eggman monitor:

EDIT: The more I think about it, the less sense it makes for it to even be there in the first place. Usually a good item or a large collection of rings will be placed on top of a loop as a reward to the player for making it up there. This is weirdly placed though because how is this meant to give an incentive to exploration? 

Yes, what you are describing does make sense; so much that it makes me think this particular one could be a placeholder for something that they do not want to give away yet.   Some people had suggested that the Pogo or Rocket Shoes items from Sonic & Tails 1/2 (Chaos/Triple Trouble) could very well be in Mania   

The loop roof platform would be a good place for them!! 

[Diogenes]

They could use any item as a placeholder though, including the 1-up it originally was.

I'm pretty sure it's an intentional change, playing off your memory of the original level to surprise you.

[TheOcelot]

16 hours ago, JingleBoy said:

Y'know there is one thing I'm slightly worried about and it's the Eggman monitor:

It's not really its existence that bugs me, but the fact that it's here in Green Hill Zone - a stage that I'm assuming takes place early in this game - that bugs me. I never really liked these monitors in S3&K but they at least only showed up towards the end of the game when you'd expect twists to come in. A lot of fan-games are notorious for the abuse of these and I honestly feel that they're just incredibly cheap and can easily lead novices and younger players to get confused. It's a cheap way to mess with a player's curiosity imo.

I'm seriously hoping that their inclusion will be kept to an absolute minimum.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the less sense it makes for it to even be there in the first place. Usually a good item or a large collection of rings will be placed on top of a loop as a reward to the player for making it up there. This is weirdly placed though because how is this meant to give an incentive to exploration? 

Don't forget the footage is an early build of the game. So there's no guarantee the Eggman monitor will appear in that place, and like Diogenes said it was likely just placed there to mess with your memory of the original version of Green Hill which instead had an extra life monitor. You make a point about the Eggman item boxs appearing a lot in some fan-games, but I don't see any problem with them appearing in Mania as long as there's no unfair placement.

The whole point of the Eggman box is to make sure you are paying attention to what you are doing. If you are just rushing through without looking at what you're hitting then you deserve to take damage! It's got a picture of Eggman on it, he's evil so the natural instinct should be not to touch it! First-time players will likely break the Eggman box out of curiosity, but once they learn that they will take damage then they won't do it again! As long as the use of the Eggman item box isn't abused too much then I don't see any problem. I treat the Eggman box just like another enemy; if I see it I just avoid it. Simple.

 

Regarding the design of the item box in Mania:

 

I know the design is similar to the Sonic 1&2 design but with the whiter color from the Sonic 3 item box, but why is there a small blue square on the bottom-middle of the item box? I don't recall this design being from previous Sonic games, correct me if I'm wrong? So if it isn't, then what does the small blue square mean?

[StaticMania]

It's the company logo on that brand of TV monitors, those are usually placed there in the middle on old TVs.