Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[pppp]

2 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I want more people like Lake Feperd making Sonic games, because people like him GET the romantic side of Sonic.

 

..........

 

Um....OK aside from the stupid creepy romance in 06, when exactly did Sonic games have romance?

2 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I remain unimpressed with Christian Whitehead. He's just far too technical, and not enough of an artist in my opinion.

 

You clearly never programmed anything in your life. Do you have any idea how many creative decisions are made in every line of code that is written and how many times you have to think outside the box when a tricky problem arises?

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

I was hoping they would do a 50-50 on old and new zones, (like an equal number) but maybe they ran out of ideas for new zones?

Also no other characters appearing other than the three and Eggman doesn't really suprise me either.

Focusing on the technical side is a good thing on one hand, so that the programming would not be like another Sonic 4...

Hopefully the remaining new zones will be pretty good...

[Your Vest Friend]

9 minutes ago, pppp said:

..........

 

Um....OK aside from the stupid creepy romance in 06, when exactly did Sonic games have romance?

Creative, pretty sure the word he meant was creative. Romanticism was an entire movement that affected various creative forms like art, music and intellectual discussion, and didn't refer to just love in that instance, so it's not that strange to see in relation to art.  

Not saying I agree, just pointing that out. 

[shdowhunt60]

9 minutes ago, pppp said:

..........

 

Um....OK aside from the stupid creepy romance in 06, when exactly did Sonic games have romance?

For fucks sake.

ro·man·ti·cize

rōˈman(t)əˌsīz/

verb

 

1. deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make (something) seem better or more appealing than it really is.

   "the tendency to romanticize nonindustrial societies"

    

9 minutes ago, pppp said:

 

You clearly never programmed anything in your life. Do you have any idea how many creative decisions are made in every line of code that is written and how many times you have to think outside the box when a tricky problem arises?

I actually have, so don't talk down to me like I'm retarded. So actually read what I said, and try again.

 

 

[expansivelovestories]

2 hours ago, Soni said:

Gene spoke up about the hub-bub.

Bringing this to the next page!! 

It seemed like there was a reason this information was specifically mentioned the stream and also that the stream was a test run for future presentations; including seeing how quickly so many people made it to the stream; it was only announced an hour or so in advance!   it is hard to say how soon something new may be revealed; but, late September/early October seem like a time where perhaps a new act of a third zone or something could be revealed; and otherwise, just when there could be the next stream!!   

[pppp]

1 minute ago, shdowhunt60 said:

For fucks sake.

ro·man·ti·cize

rōˈman(t)əˌsīz/

verb

 

1. deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make (something) seem better or more appealing than it really is.

   "the tendency to romanticize nonindustrial societies"

    

I actually have, so don't talk down to me like I'm retarded. So actually read what I said, and try again.

 

 

Well, if you did, then you should know better than to say Taxman is not an artist.

I mean, it's not like Sonic is the only series that does nostalgia stuff, Square Enix has plenty of Final Fantasy nostalgia games like Bravely Default, Dissidia and the upcoming World of Final Fantasy, where every place is taken from a previous game in the series, old animations and music get reused.

Nostalgia fests exist because they have their appeal, or to use your words, nostalgia is a common romanticizing tool.

Are you honestly telling me that if Sonic 2017 turned out to be nothing but a nostalgia fest for Adventure fans(I'm assuming you fit that description) you wouldn't be the very least interested?

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, pppp said:

Well, if you did, then you should know better than to say Taxman is not an artist.

Good Lord, do you take everything literally? And even then you're misquoting me, I said he's NOT ENOUGH of an artist.

Christ, if you're going to be pedantic at least do it right.

[pppp]

1 minute ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Good Lord, do you take everything literally? And even then you're misquoting me, I said he's NOT ENOUGH of an artist.

Christ, if you're going to be pedantic at least do it right.

Regardless, you're still undermining the value of his work when you say that.

And like I said, I'm willing to bet if a SA/SA2 Nostalgia fest was made you'd be all over it because that's normal, we all love when nostalgia fests speak to our specific childhood loves. That's why movies like Toy Story 3 and Muppets 2011 are so beloved. People love that stuff.

Does that sacrifice creativity? Sure, but let's not pretend that creativity guarantees a good game, Sonic Team themselves proved it with 06.

Nostalgia fests are a great guaranteed way of enjoying youself(When done right of course, which is Mania's case, unlike Sonic 4).

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, pppp said:

Regardless, you're still undermining the value of his work when you say that.

As an engine coder, I'm sure the value of his work is great. But there's more to a game than that.

Just now, pppp said:

And like I said, I'm willing to bet if a SA/SA2 Nostalgia fest was made you'd be all over it because that's normal, we all love when nostalgia fests speak to our specific childhood loves. That's why movies like Toy Story 3 and Muppets 2011 are so beloved. People love that stuff.

I actually really wouldn't. That's why I'm leery eyed of any call for a Sonic Adventure 3. I'm not opposed to nostalgia in and of itself either, but I want more substance than nostalgia for nostalgia's sake. That goes especially true for how Sonic's been handling it for the past... Christ has it really been 6 years? 6 years SEGA's been doing this same crap, and it's frankly shallow. The only concession I can seemingly give it is that the people behind it seem to actually give a shit this time around.

 

Just now, pppp said:

Does that sacrifice creativity? Sure, but let's not pretend that creativity guarantees a good game, Sonic Team themselves proved it with 06.

I'd argue that 06 wasn't creative at all, with it seemingly keen on aping previous Sonic games, especially SA1 (I mean, fucks sake Wave Ocean is basically Emerald Coast almost verbatim), but that's entirely beside the point. I'm not talking about creativity either, even though that plays a part of the equation.

 

[Zaysho]

@shdowhunt60, @pppp

This tangent about personal preferences bordering on a slapfight is going on a little too long. At least do this without being at each other's throats.

[Dr. Detective]

2 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

I wouldn't go that far, especially if there was a sequel. Tails and Knuckles being playables has been a mainstay in the Taxman games, and them three being playable in explicitly classic games has retro appeal in of itself. 

I'll go that far. I'm drained. I've so little faith left.

If I expect nothing I won't be hurt. And if I get something I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[D.H]

So, more classic levels than new levels, & Sonic, Tails & Knuckles are the only playable characters?

I mean, this isn't enough to ruin the game for me, & in some ways I'm not surprised, but that is some disappointing news to hear.

Sonic Mania is still gonna be a great game I'm sure, but it does kinda suck that I have to hope on a Sonic Mania 2 happening to get a playable Amy, & more new levels.

[Jeffhog]

4 hours ago, Soni said:

Gene spoke up about the hub-bub.

Follow-up Tweet from our boy Gene. Definitely looking forward to seeing how the other classic stages are changed up if Green Hill is considered "tame."

...still holding out for Ice Cap personally.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

OK, now this excites me. I actually think that, if they were creative enough, a well-done reimagining could actually be cooler and more intriguing than a brand new level. I can't wait to see what they have in store!

[FReaK]

1 hour ago, Jeffhog said:

...still holding out for Ice Cap personally.

due to global warming, ice cap is now a tropical water level. 

[PickleBrows]

They did say that there's story purpose behind Sonic and Co. actually being back in old levels so they're at least acknowledging that this Green Hill is indeed the Green Hill compared to something like Splash Hill Zone insisting that it's its own thing.

Any levels from Sonic 3&K should logically be quite different than when we first set foot in them (I can't quite buy that whole thing that everything was seemingly restored to health by the start of Knuckles' playthrough). Angel Island is still badly burnt, Hydrocity could have its water now filthy and murky after just being left to linger and Ice Cap could be melting away so that there's now more water and maybe even some of the land has now just become rock with the snow on top having melted away.

The Sonic 1 & 2 levels would need a little more creative thinking since they don't really change but I could picture something like Casino Night having become bankrupt and abandoned since we last saw it. Lights now flicker on and off with the last bits of power they've got left and pinball flippers simply fall apart when used now. Electricity could be the key environmental obstacle here with bits and pieces short circuiting and blasting off electric projectiles. The slot machines could maybe just outright shutdown after you've had a go in them or maybe the slots have been tampered with or graffiti ed over which now affects the machine's payout.

This would be a nice way to be able to implement new potential outcomes from the machine while still justifying it within the context of the world. Maybe you could get a shield from the machine now. Or maybe, going back to the whole bankruptcy theme, doing very badly in the machine could actually send your rings into the negatives. The negative rings would only be a possibility in Casino Night Zone, maybe even just one act, but it'd offer a bit of humour by surprising the player and offers a new challenge where they're going to need to get more rings than usual in order to get back to being able to take a hit without dying.

[Sonikko]

Really disappointing to hear that Mania will have more classic levels than new ones. I hope that what they say about Green Hill being the tamest is true, because I've already played the classics countless times on every single release, so I'm tired of those zones, even if just for the visuals. I hope that everything is new enough to be its own thing.

[Salamander]

The tease of more extensive reimaginings for some of the classic levels is clearly the compromise for those classic levels being in there and outnumbering the new levels.  With sufficient reimagining, these old levels may in fact become new levels.

As for there being more classic than new levels, since we're almost certainly looking at five classic levels, then I would imagine we're looking at a ratio of something like 5-4, 5-3 - not as good as we hoped, but still not that bad, especially with Generations setting a precedent for no new levels at all.  Ten levels or more struck me as pushing it in length anyway; the Classics mostly have about six zones if you only count the full ones.

Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles playable is more than we've had in the main games for years and is what they announced we'd have from the start.  Acting as if this is suddenly disappointing is completely ridiculous.

[Marcello]

More Classic levels than new ones really kills a lot of my excitement for this.

[Mark1]

Can see it being 5 classic zones and 3/4 new zones. That by itself is an insane number of levels.

Edit: Was it ever confirmed if we were only getting one zone per classic game?

If the classic zones have significant changes made to them to feel like new levels (Green Hill looks more like a mix of CD and 3K with tropes from the original level) then I'm not too fussed. That tweet gives me hope of this as well. Think we'll be seeing new stuff soon to prevent us from worrying.

Only having Sonic, Tails and Knuckles playable is what I wanted from this. Couldn't really see why fans wanted Amy playable but each to their own  

[BlueFlare]

I hope they have ton of surprises for the re-imagined stages, as if they felt like 'a whole new stage' yet losing that original feel.

[The Deleter]

On one hand... man, I knew there were going to be caveats. Imo, Mania is at least doing the nostalgia pandering the right way, (using it for worldbuilding, tying it into a relevant story, etc.) but that doesn't make it sting any less when it gets in the way of newer content. Especially when they've been doing this for 6 whole years, doggoneit

But on the other hand, I'm also sort of relieved..? Like if they're really going to skirt the line between a reimagining of all the games or new game with this, they should at least have enough remixed content to get their full potential out of it, rather than have it feel rather tacked on with only 4 or less zones to go on. If they can make them work, I don't think I can be too mad at this decision overall?

This'll be the Star Fox Zero of the Sonic series from what it's trying to accomplish, looks like. Personally hoping it'll do well enough for a completely original sequel, (just like I was for Star Fox..... :U) but I'm good with this for now.

 

Also as a side note... how on earth are they going to implement a Sonic CD stage into the game without scrapping all of it's original level design, or having it clash completely with the rest of the game for a good while? Best stage I can think of that could possibly go over somewhat well is Stardust Speedway, and even then...

[Cyrus]

Honestly my hype's been bogged down a bit too. It's still gonna be a great effort and a fun game, I'm sure, but the nostalgia trip clashes with the game being marketed as something that would've been released in say 1996 and that got me hyped. Why would past level themes be rehashed so soon as if people back then wouldn't raise an eyebrow at that? As if this being a pixely classic Sonic game wasn't enough to make it seem like this series can't go a single game without being like "THIS SERIES USED TO BE GREAT, REMEMBER THE 90'S DUUUUUDE??" and can't sell itself on something new, which it CLEARLY can as shown by how literally everyone speaking positively about this game is more excited about Studiopolis than Green Hill.

[Spееdy]

New item is probably a Chaos Emerald but named differently like it was in Sonic CD (Time Stone). And of course it goes for story of the game, which was confirmed to be there actually.
I think we are not getting Super Sonic in this... But have to wait and see.

Don't know what to say about levels, I'm indifferent. As long as those classic levels are not the ones reimagined before - I'm fine. (but Green Hill is forgiven because it's an iconic level, and Chemical Plant if there would be one probably goes there too. PLEASE no more Casino levels PLEASE!)

[Cyrus]

Hopefully this game's successful enough for another game of this nature by the same team so that they can make something completely original.

Wait a minute.

Sonic Mania's gonna have a Sonic CD level... Did a zone fall out of Little Planet's gravitational pole and land on South Island? Does something similar happen to Angel Island for the Sonic 3 level??