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Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

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2 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

You really think it was Whitehead's decision alone to add in all the old levels and stuff? You don't think maybe that was a compromise from SEGA, to tie into the Anniversary? 

I highly doubt that. Even before Whitehead and company were doing official stuff for SEGA, their focus was on copying the Classic games rather than doing anything NEW.

2 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

This post's daft anyways (the romantic side of Sonic? Eh?) but I'm not worried. Tiny details like the Marble UFO streetlights and Club SEGA refs in Studiopolis show more than an understanding of art direction and developing an interesting and populated world, and the engine is perfect for Classic Sonic. If Spark the Electric Jester is to your fancy... maybe it's not a Sonic game you're after then? 

It shows that they're fully committed to fanservice. The whole Studiopolis level is basically precisely that. "Oh, look at that popcorn machine thing that we discovered in the level", sit back for a second and imagine someone who's NOT a Sonic fan for a second: who is even going to GET that reference?

And set aside Spark for a second and look at Before and After the sequel. Those games did a better job at creating and presenting a world. Hell, even Freedom Planet looked like it presented a more credible world.

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Whitehead more focused on the technical side of this particular game is a bad thing? Color me surprised.

There's a lot more creative juices flowing up there for ol' Christian than what you may have lead to believe I bet. Besides its not just a one man team with him anymore, and having older levels over newer ones is a SEGA-mandated thing at least they won't be copypasta'd entirely. 

Personally, expected what has been revealed today; doesn't change my outlook on the game any either.

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4 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

It shows that they're fully committed to fanservice. The whole Studiopolis level is basically precisely that. "Oh, look at that popcorn machine thing that we discovered in the level", sit back for a second and imagine someone who's NOT a Sonic fan for a second: who is even going to GET that reference?

If they don't get it, it comes off as something new and fresh. Which is supposedly what you want.

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I'm a bit disappointed by no-new levels, but it's not horribly damning. It does make me hope more fervently that this isn't StealthTax's last classic-Sonic-styled outing, though, and that a game with all new levels by them will come along some day.

No new characters other than those shown doesn't surprise me a tiny bit and doesn't really annoy me at all either. But if StealthTax does make another game, more characters could be fun.

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Disappointed more so about classic trio only than mostly old levels. With the "mostly old levels", maybe we'll get lesser known games like the Game Gear titles and Chaotix. With characters, it seems it's at least better than 2017 (for now), but they will likely appear in the story to soften the blow. Maybe the "new item" is an assist partner to soften it further? 

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Sonic Mania was always going to be a casual buy for me anyway so it doesn't matter too much to me on a personal level. Not to mention, I'm not all too familiar with the Classic stages as I've never been all that in-tune with the Classic titles. 

That said, this news on it's own is still a little lame. We'll have to wait and see if it means something different from what we're all thinking though.

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As long as Hidrocity or Ice Cap are represented, 'SALL GOOD MAN.

Anyways, lets no get all fuzzy about what Iizuka said. So what there are more classic levels? As long as the game is, as a whole, fun and replayable, it's great. Yeah, "rehashes", but I suspect the other returning zones will be DRASTICALLY different, and not a Sonic 4 (ew). Also, if it's already longer than Gens, which takes 3 or so hours to finish, it's already longer than the classics. Most if not all classic games can be beaten in less than 2. And Mania will most likely have a shitload of things besides the main game (trials, time attack, ring attack), a solid story, more than one ending.

And I bet you two, not one, TWO FINGERS, that this "tree" will give more fruits soon enough. Buy this game, buy the shit out of it and believe these guys.

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To be honest, I'm not even surprised that there aren't any more playable characters. Not just because it was explicitly shown who was playable, but because the retro branch as it stands doesn't really have opportunity for it. The only character who's in the retro branch and has potential viability in the standard set-up (so not a villain perspective story) is Amy, but since she wasn't playable in the classic quadrilogy and Sonic Team seem to be reluctant to make her an action girl in that part, she was unlikely anyway. Anyone else simply wasn't and isn't viable. 

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No one should be surprised there aren't more playable characters. I haven't even bothered talking about other playable characters with regards to this game because I knew this was a once in a blue moon situation with regards to even Tails and Knuckles. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we had another decade before this happened again with those two actually. I'm not even joking.

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Well that sort of bummed me out a bit, but not enough to deter me from buying the game; I'm still interested in the level layouts at least. Lack of a new playable characters is nothing new under the sun and I'd take having Tails and Knuckles again than simply defaulting to only Sonic.

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we had another decade before this happened again with those two actually. I'm not even joking.

I wouldn't go that far, especially if there was a sequel. Tails and Knuckles being playables has been a mainstay in the Taxman games, and them three being playable in explicitly classic games has retro appeal in of itself. 

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2 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I want more people like Lake Feperd making Sonic games, because people like him GET the romantic side of Sonic.

 

..........

 

Um....OK aside from the stupid creepy romance in 06, when exactly did Sonic games have romance?

2 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I remain unimpressed with Christian Whitehead. He's just far too technical, and not enough of an artist in my opinion.

 

You clearly never programmed anything in your life. Do you have any idea how many creative decisions are made in every line of code that is written and how many times you have to think outside the box when a tricky problem arises?

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I was hoping they would do a 50-50 on old and new zones, (like an equal number) but maybe they ran out of ideas for new zones?

Also no other characters appearing other than the three and Eggman doesn't really suprise me either.

Focusing on the technical side is a good thing on one hand, so that the programming would not be like another Sonic 4...

Hopefully the remaining new zones will be pretty good...

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9 minutes ago, pppp said:

..........

 

Um....OK aside from the stupid creepy romance in 06, when exactly did Sonic games have romance?

Creative, pretty sure the word he meant was creative. Romanticism was an entire movement that affected various creative forms like art, music and intellectual discussion, and didn't refer to just love in that instance, so it's not that strange to see in relation to art.  

Not saying I agree, just pointing that out. 

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9 minutes ago, pppp said:

..........

 

Um....OK aside from the stupid creepy romance in 06, when exactly did Sonic games have romance?

For fucks sake.

ro·man·ti·cize
rōˈman(t)əˌsīz/
verb
 
  1. deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make (something) seem better or more appealing than it really is.
    "the tendency to romanticize nonindustrial societies"
     
9 minutes ago, pppp said:

 

You clearly never programmed anything in your life. Do you have any idea how many creative decisions are made in every line of code that is written and how many times you have to think outside the box when a tricky problem arises?

I actually have, so don't talk down to me like I'm retarded. So actually read what I said, and try again.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Soni said:

Gene spoke up about the hub-bub.

Bringing this to the next page!!  ^_^

It seemed like there was a reason this information was specifically mentioned the stream and also that the stream was a test run for future presentations; including seeing how quickly so many people made it to the stream; it was only announced an hour or so in advance!   it is hard to say how soon something new may be revealed; but, late September/early October seem like a time where perhaps a new act of a third zone or something could be revealed; and otherwise, just when there could be the next stream!!  :) 

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1 minute ago, shdowhunt60 said:

For fucks sake.

ro·man·ti·cize
rōˈman(t)əˌsīz/
verb
 
  1. deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make (something) seem better or more appealing than it really is.
    "the tendency to romanticize nonindustrial societies"
     

I actually have, so don't talk down to me like I'm retarded. So actually read what I said, and try again.

 

 

Well, if you did, then you should know better than to say Taxman is not an artist.

I mean, it's not like Sonic is the only series that does nostalgia stuff, Square Enix has plenty of Final Fantasy nostalgia games like Bravely Default, Dissidia and the upcoming World of Final Fantasy, where every place is taken from a previous game in the series, old animations and music get reused.

Nostalgia fests exist because they have their appeal, or to use your words, nostalgia is a common romanticizing tool.

Are you honestly telling me that if Sonic 2017 turned out to be nothing but a nostalgia fest for Adventure fans(I'm assuming you fit that description) you wouldn't be the very least interested?

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Just now, pppp said:

Well, if you did, then you should know better than to say Taxman is not an artist.

Good Lord, do you take everything literally? And even then you're misquoting me, I said he's NOT ENOUGH of an artist.

Christ, if you're going to be pedantic at least do it right.

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1 minute ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Good Lord, do you take everything literally? And even then you're misquoting me, I said he's NOT ENOUGH of an artist.

Christ, if you're going to be pedantic at least do it right.

Regardless, you're still undermining the value of his work when you say that.

And like I said, I'm willing to bet if a SA/SA2 Nostalgia fest was made you'd be all over it because that's normal, we all love when nostalgia fests speak to our specific childhood loves. That's why movies like Toy Story 3 and Muppets 2011 are so beloved. People love that stuff.

Does that sacrifice creativity? Sure, but let's not pretend that creativity guarantees a good game, Sonic Team themselves proved it with 06.

Nostalgia fests are a great guaranteed way of enjoying youself(When done right of course, which is Mania's case, unlike Sonic 4).

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Just now, pppp said:

Regardless, you're still undermining the value of his work when you say that.

As an engine coder, I'm sure the value of his work is great. But there's more to a game than that.

Just now, pppp said:

And like I said, I'm willing to bet if a SA/SA2 Nostalgia fest was made you'd be all over it because that's normal, we all love when nostalgia fests speak to our specific childhood loves. That's why movies like Toy Story 3 and Muppets 2011 are so beloved. People love that stuff.

I actually really wouldn't. That's why I'm leery eyed of any call for a Sonic Adventure 3. I'm not opposed to nostalgia in and of itself either, but I want more substance than nostalgia for nostalgia's sake. That goes especially true for how Sonic's been handling it for the past... Christ has it really been 6 years? 6 years SEGA's been doing this same crap, and it's frankly shallow. The only concession I can seemingly give it is that the people behind it seem to actually give a shit this time around.

 

Just now, pppp said:

Does that sacrifice creativity? Sure, but let's not pretend that creativity guarantees a good game, Sonic Team themselves proved it with 06.

I'd argue that 06 wasn't creative at all, with it seemingly keen on aping previous Sonic games, especially SA1 (I mean, fucks sake Wave Ocean is basically Emerald Coast almost verbatim), but that's entirely beside the point. I'm not talking about creativity either, even though that plays a part of the equation.

 

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